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12:00 AM
@Shog9 Do you want the unattributed copying thing to be only from an external source? Why did you say "external"?
The wiki one is interesting. Might this just possibly mean that we are going to be able to bring up a list of recent wiki edits before the average member’s TTL expires? :)
Where MTBF != TTL. :)
btw, Shog, is there any feature request about listing recent suggested edits on tag wiki/excerpt that I can vote up?
Sometimes people edit for formatting in a way that makes the post worse. When that is all they are doing, I reject it as “too minor”, even though that is not the right reason.
However, when they have done some good stuff (fixing misspellings or adding obvious dropped words that somebody out) as well, I "improve" theirs by fixing the formatting corrections myself. I still give them the +2 because I want to encourage help.
I have mostly suppressed the custom rejection reason of “You screwed up the formatting even worse.”
I guess you could argue that the graffiti artistes who go in and backtick every third-and-a-halfth word for that awesome ransom-note look are committing vandalism, but I usually reject those as too minor instead.
[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started (@Undo)
12:19 AM
What’s the right rejection reason for an edit that makes the post harder to read not easier to read?
Or is that too subjective a thing even to contemplate?
@tchrist Change meaning/vandalism, depending on the severity
@AstroCB Okay, then that is a problem.
Because it is neither changing the meaning nor overt vandalism.
It is just being dumb.
They are trying to be helpful.
@tchrist I guess you could use a custom reason saying just that.
I'd say something like "Thanks for the effort, but it appears that you've obfuscated the post more than you've clarified it."
just me or SE is having random timeouts?
@Braiam Reproduced over here on Safari.
Like 1 in 20 messages times out for me.
12:25 AM
Every time I run the Suggested Edit queue on SO, it’s all tag wiki edits.
Q: Random timeouts when using SE main sites and *.chat.SE

BraiamI'm having random issues, like "Connection was reset" and "Timeouts" when trying to access the different pages of SE and when posting in chat. Is difficult to nail the exact problem because it works fine until it doesn't and then start working fine again. I've noticed that as general symptom whe...

@AstroCB mm...?
@Braiam Well, I figured I'd post it here since you just discussed it above.
Ok, just ran the SO edit queue. 3 tag wiki edits, 2 for regular posts. The regular posts both needed a lot more help that what was proposed. So I “improved” them, including annotating the log message. I gave them all their +2, even though the last one really took much more work than it should have.
I almost never approve an edit but deny them their +2. I wonder if I am too generous, or not generous enough.
@Braiam SE is also lagging for me.
12:39 AM
> I've noticed that as a general symptom whenever this is about to occur, the page loads slower... (source)
anyone knows if audits for excerpts and tag wiki's has been proposed?
@AnnaLear lost her gravatar :(
@Undo I know exactly where it is.
yeah, in California
aw hell naw
no gravatar of mine will be in california
It looks like the chat.mse gravatar escaped to join the one on chat.se.
1:07 AM
weird, one of my flags says active yet the post is deleted ?
custom flag?
comment flag?
yea, custom
weird, now there's a gap between the first row of avatars and second on tavern
Custom flags don't clear when deleted
i c, thx
Unless deleted by a mod
I thought the ALT text on that first image was going to lead to a joke Wikipedia entry. It did not
This is a list of sexually active popes, Catholic priests who were sexually active before becoming pope, and popes who were legally married. Some candidates were sexually active before their election as pope, and it has sometimes been claimed that other popes were sexually active during their papacies. Such relationships were undertaken outside the bond of matrimony and broke the vow of chastity. There have been 266 popes. Since 1585, no pope is known to have been sexually active before, during or after election to the Papacy. There are various classifications for those who were sexually active...
^ For the lazy
1:54 AM
> I was so tempted to vandalize this article to put a [citation needed] after every claim that the night sky was dark.
2:05 AM
[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword detected: Infrared 23 11s blossom on webmasters.stackexchange.com
2:18 AM
^ Spam
[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: NEED HELP ASAP PLEASE on superuser.com
@SmokeDetector I was thinking on editing the title... that may result impossible
VLQ'd, obviously.
@SmokeDetector gone
2:27 AM
Should suggested edits translating posts to English be approved?
@AstroCB it is the translation coherent?
@Braiam Seems like it to me.
@AstroCB mm... not quite the accurate translation but the meaning is carried
@Braiam He also said he made it more accurate, if that adds anything.
It would have been deleted anyway, so it couldn't have hurt too much, as long as it's not spam or a different question.
3:07 AM
@AstroCB As though that were a translation.
It’s probably a better posting, but calling it a translation is stretching the truth a great deal.
@tchrist True 'nuff, but I really love whitewashing this fence. Really, it's the best.
@Shog9 Which brand of whitewash do you prefer?
@tchrist "invalid edit" is the only one that really makes sense right now.
Which should really tell you all you need to know about the problem I'm looking to solve.
Because that's a crap reason.
"Your edit was rejected because it was invalid". THAAAAANKS
I always thought so. It tells them nothing.
@ColeJohnson I give up: why mod delete? And what’s DV?
@tchrist it has upvoted answers. The auto delete only kicks in when every post has a negative score. So a mod delete would be quicker than waiting for downvotes.
And dv == downvote
@ColeJohnson Still should only take a few delete votes for the whole kit and kaboodle on the original question, right?
I do so wish our delete-vote system were as streamlined as our close-vote system is. Review queue.
Could I just flag the question as low quality and it go to the LQQ?
Theory and practice diverge on how “bad” questions — and as applicable, answers — will ultimately be downvoted, closed, and deleted. That really doesn’t happen a squidgen as much as theory would have it.
4:08 AM
Bad questions' answers will still be upvoted by people thinking they are useful
But it is closed, so we can delete it.
I pitched in mine.
I don't have delete votes though
yesterday, by Shog9
lazy here bodies. Get delete rights already.
Is there a pun or joke I'm missing or is that just a typical sarcastic tavern post?
@Braiam I sometimes wish all questions asking about squigglies got autoclosed.
@ColeJohnson Oh, I doubt you’re missing anything.
4:12 AM
@tchrist I wish there was syntax such as [so-tag:microsoft-word] so I don't have to edit the linked url
As for autoclose, we could modify SmokeDetector to post questions tagged
Yeah, people think that if microsoft word squiggles them, they must be doing something wrong.
They don’t ever seem to consider, or at least not seriously enough, that just yet another bug.
Or that they shouldn't write code in word
It’s strange. Usually when a program does something ugly to me, I blame the program, not myself. But with Microsoft Word, lots and lots and lots of people make the opposite default assumption.
@ColeJohnson boggles
4:17 AM
Well, if everytime I misspelled a word and it popped up with the spell checker after the space bar, I'd get more upset
Ugh. My jello is sugar-free.
@bjb568 Add some.
The grammar-checker is even worse than the spell-checker. And that’s saying something.
Pro-tip: buy jello with sugar
Or add some honey.
It's helped me fix some errors to please my English teacher, but I don't think they're correct
@ColeJohnson Like?
Never starting a sentence with "and"
@bjb568 sugar-free is healthy
When you use dictation to type your essays, it's common to start with and
@ColeJohnson yes yes
4:20 AM
It may be, I suppose, that some distinction is being made between coördinating conjunctions, correlative conjunctions, and subordinating conjunctions as to whether they are valid as sentence-starts, but this still seems like so much Prescriptivist Poppycock™ from where I’m standing. Yeah ok fine: you probably shouldn’t invert a “Not only X but also Y” into a “But also Y, not only X” type of thing, but I cannot really see where this silliness is coming from. IMHO, it’s just meaningless cargo-cult language laws, rules without reasons. — tchrist 19 mins ago
@InfiniteRecursion so, I should remove the glucose from my body?
@bjb568 oh, no
@ColeJohnson Funny you should have mentioned that one. Zeitgeist, I guess.
@ColeJohnson Depends, are you a kitten like bjb?
@InfiniteRecursion :(
@InfiniteRecursion I am on the internet...
4:23 AM
There is not now, nor has never been, nor shall ever be, such a “rule” of English grammar. And now you’re telling me that Microsoft Word tries to enforce such nonsense? Really?
If this made your English teacher happy, you should have fired them and gotten a real one.
Or dropped it and tried jQuery.
@ColeJohnson On the internet, avoid sweet @Cupcakes
@tchrist I don't know where you're from, but here in America, teachers are part of a union and can't be fired. Not to mention, I can't choose my teachers
I'm in high school, not college
You can choose jQuery!
How’s that go? “Fire them all. God will know His own.” Something like that.
I have never met a high school English teacher who knew the least bit about English grammar.
Literature, perhaps. But language? Never.
4:26 AM
The English teachers teach literature also in California
Languages should have specs.
We do not teach English to our students in America.
@ColeJohnson Not just CA.
@bjb568 And a test suite.
The annoying thing is that English and a second language are "so important", schools don't even teach basic life skills such as balancing a checkbook
4:27 AM
Suites are sweet.
@ColeJohnson or jQuery.
@Cupcake Boy, if he thinks SO has high standards, I cannot imagine his umbrage at certain other SE sites.
@bjb568 It isn't a language.
@InfiniteRecursion flag
@InfiniteRecursion Bah, there's a jQuery plugin to fix that.
And that was Boy as in Gee whiz not as in You my slave.
4:28 AM
"Learning a second language will help you get a job!" Not if I can't balance a checkbook, take out loans, buy/sell stock, get insurance, etc.
And all the math teachers at my school assert that sqrt(x^2) == x
@ColeJohnson I’m afraid you aren’t going to get much sympathy with that line. It’s silly.
My line or the teachers'?
Maybe if you find some other insular monoglots to group-gripe with about being forced to learn something, you might, but not ’round here.
I don't mind learning
I mind bad education
Everyone should learn a couple seven languages they weren’t born to. It’s good for you.
4:31 AM
I agree, but my argument is that you shouldn't shove a second language down my throat if you won't teach me basic life skills.
Placing stock acquisition skills higher than language skills is silly.
Multiple languages is a basic life skill.
@tchrist Seven! How many languages have you learnt?
The stock market is not.
They were just examples of things that a school should teach.
English is the universal human lang. What more could you want?
4:32 AM
@InfiniteRecursion Perhaps I am being a hypocrite and suggesting that others do more than I did.
If you don't know English, you're not important enough.
Do programming languages count :p
Trying to fragment human langs is bad.
@ColeJohnson They should.
@bjb568 Nonsense.
The Ugly American is a 1958 political novel by Eugene Burdick and William Lederer upon which a 1963 movie starring Marlon Brando was based. The novel became a bestseller, was influential at the time, and is still in print. The book is a quasi-roman à clef; that is, it presents, in a fictionalized guise, the experience of Americans in Southeast Asia (Vietnam) and allegedly portrays several real people who are represented by pseudonyms. == 1958 novel == The novel takes place in a fictional nation called Sarkhan (an imaginary country in Southeast Asia that somewhat resembles Burma or Thailand, but...
@tchrist I asked out of curiosity. You seem to be a polylinguist.
@InfiniteRecursion I honestly do not know how to answer that question.
4:34 AM
Well, at my school we have Spanish I-IV, German I-III(?), French I-III(?), Chinese I-II, and AP Computer Science (Java)
Java shudders
@ColeJohnson You’re comparing apples with avarice.
Or oranges with honor.
@ColeJohnson Holy Java! They sell kids Java!
@InfiniteRecursion I don’t know. I’ve studied . . . a lot of them. I am competent in very few.
Well, comparatively few.
Far fewer than I’ve studied.
All I'm saying is that high school claims to be preparing you for college and later life, but they don't teach you certain things that should be taught
Yup. Like jQuery.
4:36 AM
@ColeJohnson Spend your junior year abroad. It will create new openings that you never knew existed.
@tchrist That sounds quite NSFW.
@tchrist I'm gonna be a senior.
But when you’re done, switch back to male; it’s more fun.
@ColeJohnson High school teaches one how to learn. What one learns depends on the individual.
4:38 AM
Horses. Water. Drink. Drank. Drunk.
@InfiniteRecursion not where I live
No reason to argue with kids. They know everything already.
@InfiniteRecursion not most of them
If you haven’t lost track of how many languages you’ve worked with, then you haven’t worked with enough of them.
Whether human or programming.
Monocultures are unhealthy environments: far too vulnerable to extinction events.
So you are an unhappy high school kid. I’m sorry that you have not had a fulfilling education experience. But honestly, you are the most important factor in what you learn, nothing else and no one else.
I had the most asinine of “Advanced” Algebra teachers. And my Chemistry teacher would come to class drunk off his butt.
But I still learned them. Because I wanted to. That’s really all that matters.
As do I, but it's not easy when they're bad teachers
My physics teacher was one of my best teachers. He built things like potato launchers or catapults to demonstrate everything
@ColeJohnson I really gotta see how he demonstrated the EM spectrum using a potato launcher.
@Cupcake You only just now noticed? :(
@tchrist I only now decided to take action :P
Well, there was some discussion about the inadvisability of reclosing it.
But the helix drills ever downward.
Is that a really smart way of saying that it will eventually be closed anyway?
@Cupcake I don’t know anything about smart.
But I do know that rule number one for getting out of a hole is to first stop digging.
I don’t know that anything constructive can be pulled from this. I’m not saying nothing will, just that I do not know how it could. I’m very bad at such things.
The real problem is a simple one: his feelings are hurt.
You cannot ever “win” an argument when that is the starting point.
4:55 AM
Right. So it should just be deleted.
Arguably, arguments are never winnable under any circumstances, but that is not what I mean here.
@Cupcake I haven’t waded through all the manure in that hole lately. No heart for it.
@tchrist trust me, don't bother, it's not worth anyone's time.
I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m saying that I haven’t looked because it just unsettles me.
I will say this, though.
The tolerance for incredibly negative posts is much higher in some places than in others.
My recommendation is to find a dupe for it and close it that way, if possible.
@tchrist not sure how much time you've spent on MSO recently, but most rants there have been getting closed as dupes of
Q: Why is Stack Overflow so negative of late?

GeotargetI've been using Stack Overflow for a few years, and initially most questions you asked got a positive reception: happy comments and answers, people that tried to help you out regardless of the way you worded it. Of late the tendency is to simply close or put on hold most questions, or downvote th...

Which I personally don't find to be helpful either.
Goodnight, young and annoyed-at-young 'uns.
5:01 AM
@bjb568 don't let the downvotes bite.
@bjb568 Good night old kitty
Now and then I look for the lowest voted answer on the site. I guess it’s getting better. There used to be posts at least twice as negative as the current leader:
A: What non-programming books should programmers read?

Andrew CowenhovenWritten in 1950, Dianetics: The Evolution of a Science describes the optimum computer as an introduction to a science of the mind.

Q: Draw lines with Glow effect in iPad App

MayurI have integrate draw line in my application i have not used OpenGL or any other similar framework. So now i want to give glow effect to their lines so how can i give it ? Thanks in advance.

Q: How to Draw lines with Glow effect in iPad App

MayurI have integrated drawing a line in my application. I have not used OpenGl or any other similar framework. Now I want to give a glow effect to these lines. Any idea how to do that?

5:03 AM
@Cupcake I could never muster enough courage to read that rant, though I have read a lot of rants on MSO. That rant is too long for me.
5:04 AM
> Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.
It looks like he re-asked the question just so that he could answer it with someone else's answer to his older question...
People are weird.
Beats me.
I think the Mencken quote applies to SO.
@InfiniteRecursion Professional etiquette demands my silence.
@Cupcake That’s even weirder than I had realized then.
Yeah, right. I'll think of that the next time I view "Battlefield Earth" (as he said himself, Travolta's best movie ever... or was it Phenomenon? Can't remember. Note to myself: Less Dianetics tomorrow). -1 — Boldewyn Jul 28 '09 at 9:53
@tchrist I fail to understand why it demands your silence. Anyways, my favorite chapter in that book is “The Most Beautiful Code I Never Wrote” by Brian Kernighan
@InfiniteRecursion Because I have had Andy as my nominal editor once or thrice before, that’s why.
OMG! That's Jon Skeet on the front! — Skilldrick Feb 27 '09 at 15:37
A: What non-programming books should programmers read?

Charles RoperHow to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie Although this was first published in 1936, the advice contained within is still as fresh and appropriate as ever. Don't be put off by the name. This isn't some underhand guide to having your way with unsuspecting victims, but rather com...

5:10 AM
@tchrist Ok
Brian is a gem, though.
A: How to best draw attention to a potentially better answer (but on a different question)?

Richard PascualClawing Ourselves Down from a Stack of Monotony I have been on Stack Overflow for some time now, and it is tiring to see the following algorithm develop on this site among users and answering responses: begin set so_id = my_name; get all_posts(type = unanswered, tags = topic_a,...

That's a good answer for someone who's never posted on Meta before.
5:18 AM
@Cupcake That one is way too broad, and you aren’t getting that one fixed in Trinidad.
5:44 AM
[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: I NEED HELP TO BUILD QUERY on stackoverflow.com
6:09 AM
[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: BODY FITNESS EXERCISES on meta.stackexchange.com
@JanDvorak your script not up yet?
me not up yet
hmm, do you need some coffee?
all gone
7:08 AM
[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: I NEED HELP TO BUILD QUERY on stackoverflow.com
the reviewers need to be taught about too minor
@JanDvorak mission impossible
@SmokeDetector crap DELETED
Hiya @Unihedron
Hiya @InfiniteRecursion!
> My solution so far is to treat th [sic.]
@JanDvorak hmm
Well if I hadn't asked google I'd have never known he asks how to rent a car..
Blatantly OT works just fine too..
@InfiniteRecursion looks like something in the area of Turkish
@Vogel612 then he replies himself... with a link to his website...
Also what the heck is the word "Telefon" doing in there??ß
> How do I rent a car?

> First, rent a car, you must be a member of our site. After you register the phone with a verification code, which you want to rent a vehicle to get the vehicle from the detail page and choose the date and time that you want to deliver and the "Leases" Continue button should move forward with. System of the vehicle is not available and will allow you to select the date you would like to enter another date.

> In the next step you must choose how to get the vehicle you wish to rent. Want a tool from an address that you specify, you can also rent a car company address
7:28 AM
goes to rent a car from nasıl-araç-kiralarım, wonders if @Shadow will accompany as a translator
@InfiniteRecursion wait for Google Glass to act as AI translator, it shouldn't be long :)
translation: "how to run for the president of SO?"
fails to rent a car, waits for Google Glass
7:35 AM
that's the spirit!
@AslanBarak jfdiohg fdoig?b ndf9gjdfgngf — Shadow Wizard 51 secs ago
that's racist
google translate can't make sense of these comments...
@Vogel612 my comment is written in a unique language
even Super Computer won't be able to translate it
Let's inform the current president of SE
7:38 AM
@InfiniteRecursion it's Joel, right??
that guy seems to be a troll..
ok, so this is a threat. Flagging as offensive — Jan Dvorak 7 secs ago
@Vogel612 No idea. Let's ask the aspiring presidential candidate (Aslan Barak)
yu ander stend? — Aslan Barak 1 min ago
that's racist
@JanDvorak whats mans "offensive"? — Aslan Barak 1 min ago
[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: LEXICAL ANALYSIS on cstheory.stackexchange.com
7:42 AM
is he attempting english, or pretending he doesn't speak english?
@SmokeDetector at least he's polite, but it's probably blatantly off-topic..
@JanDvorak now that's the question..
> sorry my google translate try very hard dir
let's make it simple. don't feed the troll
Finally! closed
all out of this and OP can comment against the wall as much as he likes.
7:44 AM
@Vogel612 are you sure it's a troll?
@JanDvorak I am not, but that is beyond anything that should be acceptable
additionally "How much rep do I need for mod" is a dupe either way.
roger that. Ceasing activity.
Yep. Turkish
What is a troll? — Shadow Wizard 6 mins ago
Good question
tamam. belki turkcesi SE sitesi var mi? ingliz: there is turkish SE site mi? — Aslan Barak 1 min ago
I am even tempted to give an answer on that..
> There's no sites in turkish. If you want to participate on SE, you will need to learn proper english first. This means you will have to be able to fluently communicate in english only.
7:48 AM
it's actually a reasonable feature request.
or rather, a reasonable a51 proposal
@JanDvorak it's another SO in language x proposal for area 51
except I have no idea who would seed the site.
▲ that..
but JonEricson took care of it
wonders how @tchrist will feel about this ingliz
@InfiniteRecursion would have to know tchrist better to understand what @InfiniteRecursion means by that
by the way is that two pings or one?
7:50 AM
Stack Overflow (in Turkish)

Proposed Q&A site for professional and enthusiast programmers in Turkish. Profesyonel ve meraklısı programcılar için önerilen Türkçe soru-cevap sitesi.

Currently in commitment.

btw, including a turkish language proposal forwarding...
both get answers in comments though.. Isn't that discouraged for proposals??
@Vogel612 One ping. tchrist's English is very good, and he is a polyglot.
3 hours ago, by tchrist
Everyone should learn a couple seven languages they weren’t born to. It’s good for you.
@InfiniteRecursion polylinguist or polyglot?
I hope programming languages count.
7:53 AM
@Unihedron 7 might still be dangerous..
@Vogel612 Thanks, corrected it.
3 hours ago, by tchrist
If you haven’t lost track of how many languages you’ve worked with, then you haven’t worked with enough of them.
@InfiniteRecursion I am getting close I think..
Hmm, is SO's login broken? I was opening a couple tabs and suddenly one says "Welcome back Stijn, you've been logged in. Click here to refresh the page."
I can still keep track, but alas, not even 3 years of practical programming..
Stop being so unfair on the guy, he is obviously new! 3 negative votes in 3 minutes is just really unfair! UpvotedErx_VB.NExT.Coder 1 min ago
8:07 AM
@Stijn just admit you logged out. FOR SHAME. FOR SHAAAAMMMEEE!
I'm sorry, it will never happen again, I promise!
var promise = $http.post("/api/Stijn/logout");
promise.success(function (data) {
Ay @SufiDeveloper.
@Vogel612 ping
@SufiDeveloper For what it's worth, all Chat instances operate on SE-Network-Wide reputation
The required reputation to talk is 20, and from the afflication bonus you should get 100.
8:20 AM
and when you can comment, you'd need to net 106 downvotes minimum to lose the chat privilige (assuming you got only one account.)
He's right, he has 1 reputation on MSE.
Quick question... AskUbuntu user with 0 Answers in his profile, a score of 1 rep and a teacher badge. Is it just me or is that fishy?
Maybe someone upvoted and retracted it.
@Unihedron but there's no answer...
shouldn't the badge be reverted then?
Badges don't revert.
8:33 AM
hmm (post deleted or otherwise unavailable)... okay then ;)
Q: Copy-pasting the contents another answer to the same question — with attribution

Jean-François CorbettI know about this question: When is using an other poster's content plagiarism The wording of my question is only slightly different, but I think it depicts a rather different situation: Is it ok to take material from another answer on the same question and re-use it with without modifications...

8:48 AM
Any Minecraft players here?
I'm a Minecraft watcher
Yes @Unihedron. And that's your fault.

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