Tavern on the Meta

rlemon

4:09 PM

@bluefeet he just won't quit

bluefeet

@rlemon we are aware of it, it's been reported in multiple places. No worries we are dealing with it

rlemon

thankyou.

appeared to stop for a while. just started again. I already see it is dealt with. cheers.

bluefeet

trolls can be persistent buggers

Jan Dvorak

I'm expecting a day when Lazslo deletes his last answer and loses the rep neccesary to chat here.

Bart

4:27 PM

He won't let that happen @JanDvorak. He secretly loves us too much.

rlemon

@bluefeet so it turns out the user was a past troll. he is once again taking it offline (off SO) .

user163250

cv-pls "lacks sufficient information to diagnose problem" stackoverflow.com/questions/24499330/…

user163250

I miss that close reason.

user163250

I don't get why we got rid of it, though I haven't thoroughly read the related Meta post about that yet.

jimsug

Hello all, first time, long time... was wondering whether this is a network-wide change before I post on our local meta about this - I seem to have lost the review tasks button on the toolbar, near the Review link up top, like so:

user163250

4:35 PM

You don't see a button that says review anymore?

jimsug

I've got the review button, but there was a little red box with... wait, nevermind, I've just figured it out.

I assume that if there's no little red box with the number of items to review, there just aren't any?

This is embarassing... teach me to hang around on SE in the middle of the morning, hey? blushes

user163250

Um, you might need to ask on your site specific meta.

user163250

I'm a Stack Overflow user, and we don't get red review buttons.

hichris123

@jimsug Go back to sleep. ;P

@Cupcake If you're over 10k you do. And it's orange.

user163250

Right.

hichris123

4:37 PM

(it shows up for me on Earth Science)

user163250

> I'm a Stack Overflow user, and we don't get red review buttons.

jimsug

Yeah, looks like ELL is just being quite. I just couldn't remember the colour... red is close to orange, right? :P

user163250

Is there a way to easily quote a previous chat message?

rlemon

paste the permalink

hichris123

13 secs ago, by Cupcake

Is there a way to easily quote a previous chat message?

rlemon

4:38 PM

~~http://chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/2154818#2154818~~

nvm...

user163250

Testing...

user163250

1 min ago, by Cupcake

I'm a Stack Overflow user, and we don't get red review buttons.

Final Contest

@Cupcake: there is no red or orange review button, only an orange icon.

user163250

Perfect.

hichris123

@rlemon ... what did you do to the link? It's striken out.

Anna Lear

4:39 PM

@Cupcake I have no idea how that grace period works, to be honest. I personally have never been able to "sneak" an answer in after the question was closed. I could look it up if you like.

user163250

<del>delete all teh things</del>

ProgramFOX

~~delete all teh things~~

rlemon

15

Q: Chat Easy Input Tools - Provides keyboard shortcuts for common text formatting commands

About Provides keyboard shortcuts for common text formatting commands, reducing the dependency on mouse usage. Current version does not have a configurable set of hotkeys but later versions will. How to use. All of the following commands are run if the user has focus in the chat input area. ...

@hichris123 ^^

hichris123

@AnnaLear If you fake a POST you could always do it. Also, if you don't have a browser that supports websockets... or you undisable the button.

rlemon

---strike out--- FYI

hichris123

4:40 PM

ooh.

@rlemon Yeah, I know, I just didn't know links were allowed to be striken out.

Anna Lear

@hichris123 I'm almost certain there's at least some server-side validation there as well.

hichris123

~~http://www.google.com~~

Final Contest

links are not any special

user163250

@AnnaLear it's not super important, if you have more important things to do.

user163250

I was asking because of this comment:

user163250

4:41 PM

@staticx Although that window is actually a 4 hour long window. It's not like it's just a few minutes, and if they were prevented from posting the answer, they could still go and post the answer to the duplicate question. — Servy 3 hours ago

ProgramFOX

@hichris123 They are not linkified on the transcript anyway.

user163250

-I want to delete all teh things-

hichris123

@ProgramFOX huh.

user163250

How do you strikethrough in chat?

ProgramFOX

@Cupcake Three dashes, not one.

user163250

4:42 PM

~~REDACTED~~

user163250

Weird.

user163250

You can't undo stars after a while, huh?

user163250

That's a bummer.

Jan Dvorak

offensive stackoverflow.com/questions/4210210/…

also, the username is

Anna Lear

@JanDvorak handled

Jan Dvorak

4:49 PM

thanks

user163250

That was quick.

user163250

5:07 PM

@JanDvorak who is this Lazslo that I keep hearing about?

Jan Dvorak

AKA Final

Anna Lear

@JanDvorak That explains a lot.

I should've noticed the name change, heh.

Jan Dvorak

my colorisation script helped a bit

tchrist

5:34 PM

Did everybody just experience like a 2-minute interruption of service in other chat rooms?

Shog9

yes

tchrist

Any foul play, or just gremlins?

Shog9

worse: SysAdmins

tchrist

Humans are so unreliable.

rlemon

thank god I thought it was my ISP again

:( I should open up more windows rather than SO.. but I fear it is all I need

tchrist

5:36 PM

@rlemon Me, too — at first. But I swapped ISPs back and forth looking for a good route and nothing helped.

Bart

@Shog9 how will we recover? Oh the horror!

Jan Dvorak

@Bart we already have

rene

Evening!

Bart

Have we @JanDvorak? Have we really?!?!

user163250

@Shog9 didn't anyone ever warn you not to feed them after midnight?

Jan Dvorak

5:39 PM

@Bart better: I can't see Final's avatar anywhere

Bart

Evening @rene

Oh stop it @JanDvorak. You miss him. Admit it

Jan Dvorak

No.

tchrist

Miss is a four-letter word.

user163250

This MSO Q&A is kind of awkward:

hichris123

@JanDvorak Ugh. stop it. he may be annoying, but that doesn't mean you have to poke fun at him all of the time.

user163250

5:42 PM

14

Q: Does location influence voting?

In my time as an employee moderator of Stack Overflow, I've noticed that people from certain countries are often the targets of serial upvoting and tend to vote for friends and colleagues more often than usual. Given cultural dimensions and particularly high collectivism, it would not surprise me...

discussion low-quality-posts voting-fraud

tchrist

Well.

Bart

That seems like something that could have been raised internally @Cupcake ...

tchrist

@Bart And probably should have been instead. But I have a related anecdote.

In grad school, when it was time to grade programming assignments, one divided them into three piles by surname. Chinese went in one pile, Indian in the second, and everybody else in the third. The first two piles usually had only one or two of the same program in them replicated many times, while the third had almost no duplicates.

TGMCians

\o

user163250

Chinese and Indian students would use basically the same program or two?

tchrist

5:47 PM

Yes.

They all worked together.

They didn’t turn in individual work.

One professor actually divided the score by the number of copies. :)

Not kidding.

Jon Ericson

@Cupcake I'll be honest. I posted that mostly so that I could point to:

3

Wikipedia:Assume good faith

Assuming good faith is a fundamental principle on Wikipedia. It is the assumption that editors' edits and comments are made in good faith. Most people try to help the project, not hurt it. If this were untrue, a project like Wikipedia would be doomed from the beginning. This guideline does not require that editors continue to assume good faith in the presence of obvious evidence to the contrary (). Assuming good faith does not prohibit discussion and criticism. Rather, editors should not attribute the actions being criticized to malice unless there is specific evidence of malice. ...

It doesn't do a lot of good to assume Indians (or anyone else) is getting unfair voting. (I kinda hoped it was true they weren't, but I'm afraid the evidence is muddier than that.)

Jan Dvorak

then there's that language barrier thing

Bart

@JonEricson that is an awkward route to take to get to that point

Shog9

The truth is that everyone gets unfair voting.

You should see the size of this voting ring I found based in NYC...

2

Jan Dvorak

@Shog9 over 9000?

Jon Ericson

5:53 PM

@Shog9 Tru dat.

tchrist

Whenever people don’t vote for posts/postitions but for people, this will always happen.

Bart

Starred just because of you @tchrist

tchrist

There are ways around that, but not really ones that are viable within the SE framework. You’d have to leave the owner anonymized before a vote were cast. You would probably also have to keep the current vote total hidden before then, too. That kind of thing.

Jan Dvorak

That would be a nice userscript, actually

Bart

Or ... we could just accept the system isn't perfect, accept the occasional problem and move on with our lives.

tchrist

6:01 PM

Bigger fish want frying than that one. Or at least, more troubling ones.

Jan Dvorak

where's my shark pan?

Anna Lear

Any system we come up with is going to be flawed because humans.

Jan Dvorak

what if we only let robots vote?

Bart

Luckily we have Bill the Lizard, Boltclock and others then @AnnaLear.

ManishBot

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: SSIS: CANNOT ACQUIRE CONNECTION TO EXCEL on stackoverflow.com

Anna Lear

6:06 PM

@Bart I've met him in person and I'm very sorry to say that Bill the Lizard is not actually a lizard. :(

3

Jan Dvorak

should @Manishbot give out automatic downvotes for all-caps titles, BTW?

tchrist

@AnnaLear SPOILER ALERT

@JanDvorak No.

Howsoever attractive the notion might sometimes be.

The right thing to do with those questions is to edit the title back into something less noisy.

Bart

That's not simply disappointing @AnnaLear ... I'm .... looks for local help line

Anna Lear

I know. It took me years to come to terms with that.

Jan Dvorak

@tchrist sometimes when you wash a turd, you get ... nothing left.

Bart

6:09 PM

Next thing you know @Cupcake isn't really a cupcake.

user163250

You only get a limited number of stars per day?

tchrist

@Cupcake Or per night. :)

Bart

Not if you star me @Cupcake. You would simply run out too fast otherwise.

user163250

I want to star all teh things :(

Jan Dvorak

@Cupcake have you just depleted the quota?

user163250

6:10 PM

Yes.

user163250

It seems to be rather small :/

tchrist

@JanDvorak Like, tell me about it.

Bart

How is Switzerland still at 0-0 with Argentina? Amazing ...

Jan Dvorak

@Bart sport, time?

user163250

4 mins ago, by tchrist

The right thing to do with those questions is to edit the title back into something less noisy.

user163250

6:12 PM

Have the platform detect all caps titles and automatically lower case them on submission.

Bart

@JanDvorak yeah, world cup. End of the first half of overtime.

user163250

Chances are you'll get it right way more than you get it wrong.

Jan Dvorak

or just block the post as LQ

user163250

We already edit to fix all-caps, so worst comes to worst, we end up editing to put caps back in, which should be less frequent.

Bart

Or we create a font in between upper and lower case and everybody's happy ...

user163250

6:14 PM

Although I guess if OP entered all caps in the first place, then they'd just edit it back to all caps afterwards :/

Jan Dvorak

@Cupcake Hmm... what if someone decides to talk about a Dick?

user163250

I have high reputation, I should get more stars :P

rene

@Bart After this it is time for televoting?

user163250

I mean stars to give.

Bart

@rene there first will be song and dance routines

rene

6:15 PM

Ah, cool

user163250

@JanDvorak if someone wants to talk about dicks on Stack Overflow, then I think we have bigger problems than all-caps titles.

Anna Lear

Word-based filtering is a clbuttic problem.

Jan Dvorak

Richard Feynman

|influences = Paul Dirac |influenced = Freeman Dyson |spouse = (deceased) (his death) |awards = Albert Einstein Award (1954) Nobel Prize in Physics (1965)Oersted Medal (1972) |signature = Richard Feynman signature.svg | children = Carl FeynmanMichelle Feynman }} Richard Phillips Feynman (; May 11, 1918 – February 15, 1988) was an American theoretical physicist known for his work in the path integral formulation of quantum mechanics, the theory of quantum electrodynamics, and the physics of the superfluidity of supercooled liquid helium, as wel...

tchrist

@AnnaLear Better to feed it to a machine-learning algorithm instead, and let it crunch the numbers on the feature-vectors to arrive at some likelihood-of-X metric (being closed, being answered, being marked as spam, etc.).

Jan Dvorak

@tchrist The hard part is finding a good base

Anna Lear

6:23 PM

@tchrist That's actually surprisingly difficult to get right.

Bart

Or write a bot which feeds such posts to a couple of monkeys in a chatroom who have nothing better to do than .... wait ...

3

Anna Lear

You'd think we'd have a ton of data to work off of, but so far all our ML attempts haven't produced anything particularly reliable.

tchrist

Yes, I know. You need to choose your features carefully, and have good training data.

Ben Collins

@AnnaLear most of our data actually isn't terribly useful for ML

Jan Dvorak

@AnnaLear detecting large numbers (=phone numbers) in the title seems like a good autoflag

tchrist

6:25 PM

Sure it is.

Anna Lear

@BenCollins Basically, yeah.

Ben Collins

@tchrist ah! I suppose you have published some work on this topic?

tchrist

@BenCollins Well, not as PI.

Ben Collins

@tchrist as anything?

tchrist

Make me look at résumé, why doncha? Actually, I do have some decents refs for it, just not of my devising.

Just a sec.

Ben Collins

6:29 PM

@tchrist I have similar anecdotes from grading homework turned in by grad students

@tchrist it's not that important. My point was that we have been looking for useful cues in our data for ML-y things, and it's a lot muddier than you make it sound.

tchrist

@BenCollins It’s getting the features right that’s hard in this.

Ben Collins

even coming up with a sensible training set is pretty hard

Bart

It's not just homework @BenCollins. You should have seen the stuff we received at this journal I worked for. Then you're talking PhD candidates and Professors ...

Ben Collins

@Bart I once submitted a paper to a journal that I was totally ashamed of because my professor encouraged me to

I was frustrated with him after that because I figured out that he was just trying to boost his publication numbers

Jan Dvorak

@BenCollins removed as spam / uvoted?

tchrist

6:31 PM

@BenCollins Finding Deceptive Opinion Spam by Any Stretch of the Imagination.

Ben Collins

@JanDvorak votes are the strongest easily extracted feature

Bart

Been there, done that. There are some publications on my name I'm not proud of @BenCollins. But some of the plain fraud we saw ... incredible.

Ben Collins

I once had some students turn in a term paper that was literally a cut-'n'-paste from an ACM paper into word

they didn't even bother changing the formatting

@JanDvorak training for spam would probably be easier than what we're doing now, which is working on something for measuring quality

Jan Dvorak

I propose adding "all caps" to the quality filter

Andy

@JanDvorak Seconded

Ben Collins

6:36 PM

caps is a feature

rene

ALL CAPs

Andy

@BenCollins Did anyone at SE help on Chapter 5 of this book? I haven't worked through that particular chapter, but I did find it interesting they used Stack Overflow data (because it's a site I use and understand): packtpub.com/building-machine-learning-systems-with-python/book

Here's their code for that chapter too: github.com/luispedro/BuildingMachineLearningSystemsWithPython/…

Ben Collins

yeah, I've seen that. nobody here was involved in that, to my knowledge. I think they just pulled stuff from data.se

Andy

He mentions the data dump. I think they used 2012's.

Just curious

Ben Collins

right

tchrist

6:38 PM

@JanDvorak ɪᴛ ᴍᴀʏ ᴅᴇᴘᴇɴᴅ ᴏɴ ʜᴏᴡ ʏᴏᴜ ᴅᴏ ᴛʜᴇ ᴄᴀᴘ ᴄʜᴇᴄᴋ.

Jan Dvorak

AlSo TheRES thIs FoOD PRodUcT SPaM tHAt nEEdS blOcKInG

tchrist

@Ben There’s a lot of machine-learning papers in ACL, but that one is reasonably recent and perhaps even relevant. Getting the SVM features down seems the hard part to me.

Andy

@JanDvorak I think a ratio of upper/lower letters should help with that. I can't image a good title that needs to be almost 50/50

Jan Dvorak

@tchrist most askers are not that persistent

Vote to Close

@Bart NEVER!

Ben Collins

6:39 PM

@tchrist features are hard, but like I said - even before that, getting a training set is hard b/c what is "quality"? It's very difficult to even measure, really.

Jan Dvorak

@Andy I'm watching this metric and sometimes legitimate titles do pop up

Bart

It's just the kind of outside the box thinking I do @VotetoClose. Doesn't always stick.

Ben Collins

for example - one post I looked at recently was actually a pretty darn good post, but the OP got slammed with downvotes because he had a little attitude

Jan Dvorak

@BenCollins only consider votes before the first comment?

Andy

@JanDvorak On short titles, right?

Jan Dvorak

6:41 PM

@Andy with mostly acronyms

Anna Lear

@JanDvorak An actually LQ post could get downvoted into oblivion without a single comment.

Jan Dvorak

> use GIT with SSD

Andy

@JanDvorak Didn't think of those. That makes sense though.

Jan Dvorak

@AnnaLear that's what I meant

Ben Collins

@AnnaLear most LQ posts just sit at 0

Anna Lear

6:43 PM

@JanDvorak Nevermind, I misread what you said somehow.

@BenCollins there's that too

Ben Collins

(well...for LQ and not so bad that it needs to be closed, anyway)

Anna Lear

@BenCollins Mind you, we probably don't care as much about "LQ" that doesn't need action - closure, edits, deletion, etc. If it's "LQ but not that bad", it's probably "AverageQ" in practice.

ManishBot

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: TINY OAK TREES SPROUTING IN THE LAWN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE GARDEN HOW DO I STOP THIS on gardening.stackexchange.com

Anna Lear

@ManishBot timely

Bart

:D

Anna Lear

6:45 PM

I can't help picturing that garden as something adorable. Tiiiiiiiiny oak trees!

Ben Collins

@AnnaLear yeah. we really want to be able to auto-feed the LQ-queue without flooding it with stuff that's "OK"

tchrist

I’ve a hunch that questions soliciting a boolean response aren’t going to be all that HQ, nor will their answers be, either.

But I might be wrong.

Ben Collins

@tchrist soliciting a boolean response?

Jan Dvorak

@AnnaLear I've heard some opinions that "gimme-teh-regexz" are not closeworthy. It's still something we direly want to keep out.

Ben Collins

like of the form, "Is this...?"

Anna Lear

6:46 PM

@BenCollins yes/no. "is it possible to X?" type of stuff.

Jan Dvorak

@BenCollins yes

Ben Collins

gotcha

tchrist

@BenCollins “Is this right?” “Is it ok to do this?” “Should I use this approach?”

Ben Collins

I think that kind of thing will play out in the features without having to extract special phrases directly

Jan Dvorak

@tchrist append "why?"

@BenCollins it's always best if the computer can pick them out itself

Anna Lear

6:49 PM

The thing with boolean questions is that humans can (and should) interpret them more liberally. I feel like "why?" is pretty much always implied in that case, but folks tend to get too hung up on specific key words and phrases in a question and reject based on that.

Same thing is true about "what's the best X" type of questions. Sometimes they're problematic, sometime they aren't. The use of the word "best" is seldom the real problem. In practice, bad questions of that type aren't improved by a simple rephrasing. (And nobody ever asks for a bad way to do something. Pretty much every question is an implied "what's the best way to solve this?")

Vote to Close

7:03 PM

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/24517454/…

user163250

Close it as what?

user163250

It's a silly question, but what would be an appropriate close reason?

Jan Dvorak

@Cupcake too broad should do

user163250

Bootstrap is a styling CSS framework - WordPress is a blogging PHP framework. "What is the difference between apples and houses?". — h2ooooooo 3 mins ago

Andy

It's closed

Jan Dvorak

7:05 PM

> What's the difference between a gorilla and a shark?

user163250

Never mind :P

user163250

I remember that blog post.

Anna Lear

@Cupcake that about sums it up

user163250

Can one of the mods explain how the new anti-recidivism system works with the old ban system?

user163250

3

Q: How do you tell if you have a complete ban or if you are being throttled?

I am currently unable to ask questions on SO, but I don't know if I am banned from asking or if I am throttled. Is there any indicator that lets you distinguish between the two?

support post-ban

user163250

7:07 PM

Apparently I got it wrong here meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/261953/…

Jan Dvorak

I thought the old system was removed altogether?

user163250

That's what I thought too.

user163250

meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/261953/…

user163250

Oh, it won't inline that if it's deleted huh?

user163250

Gimme a sec...

user163250

7:08 PM

> This post seems slightly misleading. The new throttle is a completely separate system that was added. It works side-by-side with the post-ban system that already existed and, as far as I know, hasn't changed. The throttle only gets applied when you've created a new account after you were already blocked on another one. You cannot trigger the throttle just by standard use of your account, and it does not replace a question ban in the slightest. – animuson♦

Anna Lear

@JanDvorak Not even a little bit.

Jan Dvorak

oh.

Anna Lear

Animuson's comment above is correct.

As far as I know, Tim Post's is working on changing up the ban system, but nothing in that vein is implemented yet.

user163250

So it will eventually be implemented to apply to pre-existing banned accounts?

user163250

Because right now it seems a little silly to have to recreate your account in order to be eligible for the new system.

Jan Dvorak

7:10 PM

I've heard in a podcast about a replacement for the current system. I thought this was it.

user163250

^

Anna Lear

@Cupcake That's not really what the system is there for. :)

user163250

See, I just don't get it :/

Anna Lear

It's not designed to encourage you to recreate your account. It's designed to stop you from being able to recreate your account and keep asking questions until you get banned again, rinse, and repeat.

In the cases where someone is banned through a series of misunderstandings, the new system gives them a chance to recover.

The primary goal, however, is to slow down folks who just cycle through accounts with no repercussions.

user163250

Right.

Jan Dvorak

7:13 PM

Why not just straight out ban the new account if the old one is straight out banned as well?

user163250

I heard it's been pretty effective at that so far too.

Jan Dvorak

Is this a temporary state?

Anna Lear

@JanDvorak Yes.

Well, potentially.

Jan Dvorak

Thanks. Looking forwards for the future

Anna Lear

The question ban is also a temporary state, it's just significantly harder to get out of.

Neither is a simple matter of waiting long enough. You have to start consistently contributing positively or we are going to keep blocking/throttling you.

user163250

7:17 PM

Wow. Just...wow meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/261941/…

hichris123

@Cupcake ...?

deleted.

@BenCollins One thing that would probably help is answers/posts deleted as [reason]. For example, NAA's. There's a whole lot of trends that you could find in them. For example, if it says "How do you get this to work?" (or something like that), it's probably an NAA.

You could find some trends in the posts deleted as NAA and the posts not deleted, and see what words are typical of an NAA and a similar but not NAA.

Ben Collins

@hichris123 we're only very concerned with questions for now; low-quality answers aren't nearly as big a problem

hichris123

@BenCollins Without having data on-hand, I'm going to say it's a similar problem. One day, I flagged 60-70 answers (link only, NAA). So... yeah, questions need work, but answers too.

Jan Dvorak

Especially spam. Spam answers are much less visible than spam questions.

hichris123

yeah.

Ben Collins

7:24 PM

@hichris123 low-quality answers don't have the same bad effects on the community as a whole. it's annoying to get a poor answer, but poor answers don't do nearly as much to drive away high-quality contributors as low-quality questions do

Jan Dvorak

@BenCollins they suggest to readers that such answers are acceptable, though

Anna Lear

@JanDvorak That's debatable.

I'm sure it's true to a certain degree, but how big a problem it is in practice can vary.

Jan Dvorak

@AnnaLear I have seen the same for questions directly confirmed by askers. There aren't many cases, but there are cases.

Anna Lear

I just don't think any of the current "bad" askers ever thinks "Wow, this site is full of good questions. My question is so much worse than theirs so I'm not going to post."

I'm not saying we should have broken windows, but the overall practical impact of what we have now is perhaps a bit overstated.

Jan Dvorak

I'd like to see some hard statistics on that, but I don't have an idea on how to measure it.

offensive stackoverflow.com/questions/8738930/…

hichris123

7:36 PM

@AnnaLear Here's one idea: give gold tag badge owners/some group of trusted users a super close vote for all/some categories. Like the dupehammer but for more close reasons. That way, people get rid of crap faster (less time for people to answer, etc.).

Anna Lear

Reputation is in no way a guarantee of good judgement. Making dupe closures easier makes perfect sense - folks with gold tag badges should be very well familiar with the subject matter and existing questions on a given topic. This does not translate to other close reasons.

Philosophically speaking.

hichris123

That is true. However, the fact of the matter is that questions aren't closed fast enough. We've seen that with the Close Vote queue and just in browsing the site. So... how could you identify users who are good at closing questions? I'm not sure.

Jan Dvorak

There was a proposal to block answers for some time (x minutes / vote) while the close votes are still coming

GnomeSlice

Today's Listening | Electronic / Lounge / Jazz

CC @Bart

Vote to Close

@AnnaLear A good test of good judgement could be this query data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/202556/… . Because if you are the first vote to close, and the question ends up being closed, you obviously have good judgement. People with more than say, 500 results, should be given the power of 2 close votes instead of 1 or something.

GnomeSlice

7:40 PM

Sorry, I've been busy.

I'm moving.

Bart

yay @GnomeSlice. Thanks:)

hichris123

@GnomeSlice Having fun yet? ;P

GnomeSlice

It's not a big move, luckily. Not signing a lease or anything, and am not taking much (at first).

If I find work it may become permanent, otherwise I will move back home in a few months

Anna Lear

@hichris123 Three ways to approach this: 1. Make it easier to close things. 2. Make more people close things. 3. Make it harder to post stuff that should be closed in the first place.

We're generally working on #2 and #3. #1 is an option, but there's a lot we'd have to do to mitigate abuse there.

Also, added complexity isn't always a good thing.

@VotetoClose As soon as you base a power on something like "first vote to close", you're going to invite a lot of first votes. Eventually all those people would hit the threshold that grants them more powerful votes. So at the very least you have to weigh that by the times when they're wrong. Which has the potential to trigger loss aversion in people. Why vote to close if it can hurt your long-term stats/progress towards a vote-hammer?

Not to mention that you can vote to close, have the question eventually be closed, and still be wrong.

All this is a delicate balancing act.

Ben Collins

@VotetoClose that means employees have perfect judgement :-)

yeah...ditto @Anna there. Doing anything isn't so much a question of "can we", it's a question of how it affects the community, say, a year from now

Vote to Close

7:52 PM

@BenCollins Which proves the idea correct!

Ben Collins

now you're just trying to flatter us.

do go on.

Anna Lear

8:09 PM

@BenCollins way to kill the conversation

hichris123

Quick query: there's 3109 questions with four or more flags + close votes. And a good chunk of those are greater than a month old.

~half are new too, which is a whole 'nother problem...

Vote to Close

@hichris123 I'll have them done in 65 days..

wow. This user is suspended till 2025 stackoverflow.com/users/2665694/andreas-jung

2027 here stackoverflow.com/users/2398036/user2398036

GnomeSlice

8:25 PM

Who cares?

Don't worry about other users

Bart

@VotetoClose but after that they can come back

hichris123

You can suspend people for a long time on chat.

Bart

On chat?

GnomeSlice

I got suspended for 6 months from chat

Bart

That's substantial

GnomeSlice

8:27 PM

I cried

Bart

That's probably a good sign that some time off might not be the worst thing

hichris123

@Bart I think I got up to 3,000 years.

Bart

Fair enough I guess @hichris123. :)

hichris123

chat.stackexchange.com/users/120914?tab=general

Bart

Hahaha

hichris123

8:33 PM

Yeah, we mods have... a bit too much fun sometimes. ;P

(and shhh, that's Undo's bot)

Bart

Should have guessed. :) Haven't seen him here for a while now, have we?

hichris123

pokes @Undo

Undo

WHAT DO YOU WANT? I WAS not SLEEPING.

hichris123

@Undo You had time for new mods!

Undo

yeah, I suppose.

New mod. Non-plural.

hichris123

8:36 PM

Actually, what were the results of the election?

Undo

David Stratton

hichris123

yeah, but who came in second?

Undo

Loading ballots from file christianity-stackexchange-com-2014-election-results.blt.
Ballot file contains 9 candidates and 122 ballots.
No candidates have withdrawn.
Ballot file contains 122 non-empty ballots.

Counting votes for Christianity Stack Exchange Moderator Election 2014 using Meek STV.
9 candidates running for 1 seat.

 R|David Strat|warren     |Daи       |Flimzy     |fredsbend  |AJ Henderso
  |ton        |           |           |           |           |n
  |-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------

He won by a landslide

Dan came in second.

hichris123

heh, never got past the first round.

Undo

When there's only one seat...

Anna Lear

8:37 PM

Runners up are Dan and Flimzy

Not sure if in that order.

Undo

Yeah, that order @Anna

Just ran it with two and three seats.

Followed by fredsbend.

hichris123

Show it with 3 seats, @Undo.

Anna Lear

@Undo yeah, I just cribbed from internal docs :)

Undo

    Loading ballots from file christianity-stackexchange-com-2014-election-results.blt.
    Ballot file contains 9 candidates and 122 ballots.
    No candidates have withdrawn.
    Ballot file contains 122 non-empty ballots.

    Counting votes for Christianity Stack Exchange Moderator Election 2014 using Meek STV.
    9 candidates running for 3 seats.

     R|David Strat|warren     |Daи       |Flimzy     |fredsbend  |AJ Henderso
      |ton        |           |           |           |           |n

hichris123

stop editing! ;P

Undo

8:40 PM

It was borked! :(

Bart

Speaking about mods, is casperOne still around on SO? Hardly ever come across him any more ...

Anna Lear

@Bart He kinda dropped off the face of the earth after his second kid was born.

He's around, just rarely.

Undo

And got to go now. Cya folks, have fun hunting for Casper.

hichris123

cya

Bart

Guessed as much. Did expect casperTwo to take over at some point @AnnaLear

jadarnel27

8:43 PM

1

Q: Why is Razor view engine considered lighter than ASPX?

As we know, MVC in .Net supports two view engines, namely, ASPX and Razor. I have read several articels and have observed that Razor is unanimously(almost) considered as a better option between the two. The reasons being: Razor is clean - Agreed. The syntax itself makes it cleaner. Razor syntax...

asp.net-mvc asp.net-mvc-4 razorengine

It's odd that this question garnered four crappy answers in the last few hours.

Since it was posted in April.

Bart

Couple of bumps as a result of the first answer I guess

jadarnel27

True. That first answerer was really digging, then haha.

The question should be closed, anyway.

Everyone pretend I put "cv-please" before that link up there.

Do it! Pretend!

"Razor syntax is simple - Agreed. There is no need to close the tags"

I...uh, what?

rene

I like this one: Razor has a syntax that is very compact and helps us to reduce typing.

jadarnel27

Yeah. Maybe we should leave the question open for it's comedic value.

Final Contest

@Stijn: hope Belgium wins.

rene

9:26 PM

Something fishy?

Anna Lear

@rene nothing immediately obvious, but that's mad weird

rene

OK...co-workers or students...

Braiam

9:42 PM

@rene "here's my code" dumps a static image

D:

rene

@Braiam Yeah, and you noticed not by the OP...

tchrist

@jadarnel27 Fair bit of fluffy boosterism in that set. I’m not saying this is a case of collusion, but stand-out patterns like that one do make you wonder if there’s any coördinated effort behind it, whether commercial or activist. See my citation from several hours ago on “Deceptive Opinion Spam”.

Braiam

@rene D: intensifies

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