Tavern on the Meta

12:00 AM

@fahad you don't get special 64bit RAM

@fahad 64 bit means your address space is much bigger so you can have more than 4GB if you wish

fahad: Speed for operations that need more than 32 bits. Also, one can implement two 32 bit operations in one 64 bit operations as an optimization...

Sathya

I'm going to step out. have a good one, all

TomWij

Another good benefit of 64 bit is hardware-based DEP, ASLR, NX, ...

user151055

Okie BTW its dawn there now

Piers Myers

@TomWij open a few visual studios with resharper too

TomWij

12:01 AM

@PiersMyers: Done, still no difference.

Michael Mrozek

This argument seems silly. Obviously at some point you will fill your RAM, at which point having more RAM would be useful

That is always true, for any amount of RAM

user151055

Hehe

Piers Myers

better to have too much than too little

TomWij

I don't see why I would need Chrome with 20 tabs, MSN, Mirc, Outlook, Photoshop, Visual Studio and a bunch of other small things running at the same time...

Michael Mrozek

Well, if you're going to stipulate that you don't use more than X amount of RAM at once, then yes, adding more than that isn't going to help you

But it's not like that's true for everyone

TomWij

12:04 AM

@MichaelMrozek: My point is...

user151055

if i had a 4 gb RAM and a 64 bit processor than my RAM is going waste?

TomWij

You add more RAM if you want to do more, not to increase performance.

@fahad: No.

Piers Myers

@TomWij but if you want to do more and you don't have enough RAM then your performance will suffer :)

Michael Mrozek

@TomWij Ah. Then yes; if you have 4G of ram and you're using 1G of it, doubling it to 8G won't somehow make all your apps run twice as fast

user151055

When you do more,you send more data to processor and more should be the bitsize

TomWij

12:06 AM

But that's doing more <--> performance

not RAM <--> performance

@fahad: No, instructions from different applications don't magically combine.

@fahad: A real-life example instead:

Piers Myers

get a multicore CPU to increase performance

TomWij

If I need to add 12 and 34, if I can do one thing at a time I could do "2 + 4" and "1 + 3", combine them and end up with 46.

If I could do two things at the same time then I would do simultaneously "2 + 4" and "1 + 3" and end up with 46.

So I'm handling twice as much data so what I want to do is done twice as fast.

Piers Myers

12 + 34 = 46, not 64 :)

user151055

@TomWij :Obviosly it does onething at a time until the processor is one

TomWij

oops ^^

(A data thing, not a task thing)

Getting a multicore CPU can even decrease performance, again, not a good example...

It could result in less FLOPS than your previous processor thus resulting in your applications (that would support multicore) to run slower.

Piers Myers

12:11 AM

@TomWij only if it wasn't written to utilise the multi cores

user151055

BTW why why does windows do paging itself?It ruins the harddisk

Piers Myers

@fahad if no paging then what does it do when all RAM is used? BSoD

Michael Mrozek

Technically all disk activity "ruins the harddisk", but it's kind of necessary

2

Piers Myers

BSoD = Blue Screen of Death

TomWij

@PiersMyers: No... I'm not using a page file, no BSoD at all. ^^

user151055

12:12 AM

Paging does the most

Michael Mrozek

@PiersMyers Start killing things -- the Linux solution :)

Piers Myers

@TomWij it will if you ever manage to use all your RAM

user151055

Or you can have more ram like tom

TomWij

@PiersMyers: Proof? It doesn't, I have seen.

There isn't even a bug check code for being out of memory.

user151055

If you have unmarked file paging it would never be performed

user151055

12:15 AM

It gives a message"Virtual Memmory too low"

TomWij

The bug check that comes closest to that is "0x4D: NO_PAGES_AVAILABLE" but that is if the page table fills, not the memory... A completely different thing.

@MichaelMrozek: Yes, it gently notices you or instead starts killing the least important things... Which doesn't hurt you.

Piers Myers

codinghorror.com/blog/2005/10/…

that's for XP, but probably applies to Vista and 7 too

TomWij

@PiersMyers: Doesn't state anything about a BSoD.

user151055

It says:My advice, therefore, is not to disable the pagefile, because Windows will move pages from RAM to the pagefile only when necessary

user151055

But i dont agree that something like that can happen

Piers Myers

12:19 AM

@TomWij see what happens by using all you memory - bump up the cache for photoshop if you have it, there must be plenty of memory hungry apps out there

rchern

> Web Applications will be graduating and changing its name to nothingtoinstall.com tomorrow!

wahoo!

Piers Myers

@TomWij you will get a lot of out of memory errors and your PC will probably grind to a halt

@rchern nice name

TomWij

@PiersMyers: No, it doesn't.

user151055

Can we also increase our RAM by pagefiling?I mean to any extent we can increase?

user151055

Someone told me it was dangerous

rchern

12:21 AM

^__^

hehe and i just got yearling on SO (:

TomWij

@PiersMyers: Why would this halt your computer? Any proof to that?
This has been tested extensively by filling both your memory and hard disk and doesn't result in such thing...

See blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2008/11/17/…

Piers Myers

Proof: wiki.answers.com/Q/…

TomWij

I fail to see how that user answer is a proof?

Nothing essential is killed in the progress.

Also, a program that could tend to have a lot of memory should correctly handle the OUT_OF_MEMORY error.

user151055

Why would we ever go out of RAM?

Piers Myers

@TomWij unfortunately a lot of applications aren't well written and never think they will run out of memory until they do

TomWij

12:28 AM

You are both stating yourself upon false assumptions, you should read technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb963901.aspx

@PiersMyers: But how does that halt the system? You're only losing some data, nothing more...

Serious applications are written to handle that, it's a software quality attribute that is considered for assuring you comform to standards like CMM or IEEE Std 730-1998.

user151055

The computer stops responding because all the memory is being used by the program

TomWij

@fahad: No... The programs are informed and closed.

Piers Myers

that Mark Russinovich article looks really interesting, thanks for that. never seen a task manager window with 64 cores before :)

@TomWij - ok windows may not explode when all RAM is used but I know that my laptop with only 1GB or RAM runs like a dog once it is used (and that doesn't take much) :)

TomWij

It changed my entire vision on Windows, it's quite impressive what you can do with simple tools...

Yeah...

At the computer store my dad runs there are like computers that are running on 256 MB RAM, it's like magic if you turn it into 512 MB.

Probably one of the cheapest upgrades for such computers.

The reason I have disabled my pagefile is because I'm using a SSD (which I don't want to suffer by continuously writing to it) and I don't want my HDD to use energy just for the page file...

Piers Myers

need sleep, later guys

TomWij

12:43 AM

Good night.

I'm out too...

Yi Jiang

7:16 AM

Yup that works! ^ there's a zero character message here

Marc Gravell

8:40 AM

small request; I need someone to @mention me (or reply) to test something. I can't @mention myself...

Piers Myers

@MarcGravell like this?

Marc Gravell

looks like I need to fix the reply prefix, but yes; thanks

and some copy tweaks, of course

waffles

8:55 AM

hi @Marc looks like you were stung with the same "windows cares not for your unsaved work" sting

Benjol

@MarcGravell, will that work even for rooms you're not currently in?

Marc Gravell

@Benjol - yes; any messages that you haven't dismissed will (after a short delay) be sent to the global inbox.

To prevent flooding, we'll batch up multiples

but if you've already dismissed it in chat? no global inbox

Benjol

@MarcGravell, Nice, just spotted the upload button too :)

Marc Gravell

9:39 AM

darn; I've had to disable that for now - the links that the inbox generates aren't quite right

unfortunately the fix needs "not me" to do something

Piers Myers

@MarcGravell why not create a sock puppet for your testing? :)

Marc Gravell

I have one; my openid seems to have failed, though

and yes, that account is just for testing

The Blue Unicorn

36 2

Benjol

9:55 AM

It's not blue

Marc Gravell

meh, no amount of diddling works:

> Unable to log in with your OpenID provider: Error occurred while sending a direct message or getting the response.

user151055

10:35 AM

Hi all

Marc Gravell

hey fahad

Benjol

10:57 AM

not much all around right now...

spoulson

Hello

What's this events thing in chat?

e.g. Oct 1st is Happy Hour. I click and no real details within.

Not sure what I'd be registering for.

Piers Myers

you'll be signing your soul away to SE if you click on it :)

I haven't worked out what the Happy Hour is either

spoulson

I have a feeling it involves drinking.

Thus, I should register for it at whatever the cost.

Piers Myers

may someone should create an AA room

Benjol

I registered and ....

nothing happened

Except that I figure here: chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/rooms/info/89/…

spoulson

11:11 AM

Imagine that. You're in the system.

Piers Myers

part of the Matrix

Benjol

I have been borged, soon I will be part of the hive mind

3

and start shutting down random questions as subjective :)

Cancel removed me from the list. I have no idea what being in the list actually means though... I'm never around at happy hour anyway - bad time zone.

Piers Myers

@Benjol does that mean if you park there, your wheels will be gone when you get back?

Benjol

I you've all been drinking, the car will probably be burning in a ditch 10 miles away when I get back :)

user151055

12:00 PM

How much repo is needed to edit qstion in SO?

Piers Myers

2000 I think it's in the FAQ: stackoverflow.com/faq

user151055

thanks

user151055

i had 600 repo ,i cant edit *cries

Yi Jiang

@fahad Well, you can always edit your own question

user151055

I wanted to edit my friends question

Yi Jiang

12:07 PM

@fahad Any reason why you can't just directly ask them to edit it?

You can always ask an user that can to do so.

user151055

she doesnt no much abt SO

Yi Jiang

For the right reasons, of course

user151055

Can anyone tell me how to edit display picture?

user151055

i mean change it

Benjol

@fahad, what display picture, the one that goes next to your name?

Piers Myers

12:17 PM

you mean your avatar? You change it on Meta.stackoverflow.com - edit your open ID details

user151055

@Benjol yes

user151055

the method to upload image was difficult,i tried it once by clicking got flair

Benjol

@fahad, it's called an avatar, and as Piers says, you need to change it in your meta account. Flair has got nothing to do with it. There is no upload.

Piers Myers

@fahad flair is something different, you use that to put on your own web site to show off your SE rep

Benjol

@fahad, goto meta, click on your name, click on the 'edit' link, click on 'Change Picture' -> that takes you to gravatar where you can associate your email address with an image.

It's not terribly user friendly, I know

user151055

12:24 PM

haha thanks

Benjol

at the time of creation, the StackOverflow team didn't want to do any image hosting, I imagine. That and it's kind of coherent with the use of OpenId.

user151055

Its too terrible

user151055

I quit,i dont want to change lol

Benjol

8

Q: How do I change my profile picture, or avatar?

How do I change my profile picture, or avatar? How can I use different avatars on different SE sites? How do avatars work? How do the SE sites know when I changed my Gravatar? See also: How is the default user avatar generated? Return to FAQ index

support faq gravatar avatar

radp

12:43 PM

2

Q: Can we get a flair style that is narrower?

Trying to incorporate the new flair into my blog, however I am finding it too wide to fit easily in the 3 column format. There seems to be a lot of empty space in the middle of the clean theme that could easily be stripped without losing content. Could we get a new flair theme that is more cond...

feature-request flair

rchern this one is for you ↑ pity both instances of StackFlair seem broken :)

Benjol

1:06 PM

Now we can upload images, I wonder if there are any plans to allow us to upload avatar images if we don't want to use gravatar

radp

@Benjol what's the point?

you upload it to gravatar instead of uploading it here

Benjol

@radp, another password to maintain/remember (or forget, in my case)

John the Seagull

PasswordSafe

Lasse V. Karlsen

lastpass.com

John the Seagull

ooooooooooooof i'm an idiot

Benjol

1:21 PM

@LasseVKarlsen Is there any text to explain what it does? video blocked here :(

Anyhows, better bookmark it quick before xmark is cremated...

Lasse V. Karlsen

lastpass integrates with your browser, and saves passwords, synchronizing across your machines (because it stores them online, encrypted)

so you can log in from iPhone, iPad, all your machines, with the same database

if you install the extensions/addins/plugins, to your browser, it will detect new and changed passwords as well and suggest you save/update them

Benjol

So it encrypts locally then uploads to their servers? And decrypts locally again anywhere? Just have to trust them.

Sounds interesting

Lasse V. Karlsen

yes

uses javascript libraries locally (ie. client-side)

Benjol

I currently use KeePass, but that doesn't fill in forms for you.

Lasse V. Karlsen

so it appears they store it on the server in normal form, but it doesn't reach their server in readable form

Benjol

1:26 PM

so you have to trust them?

Lasse V. Karlsen

Yes, you do

Benjol

I'm not sure I'd trust anyone with my google login, it's a pretty important master key

Lasse V. Karlsen

LastPass has been scrutinized and reviewed by 3rd parties before, I don't remember any links, but it got green flags all across, but yes, you have to trust them :)

spoulson

Security Now! did a podcast about it. Gave it a great review

There's still an implied level of trust

The cipher may be running on client-side, but the cipher code is provided by LastPass and could be doing anything

rchern

<3 lastpass

Lasse V. Karlsen

1:35 PM

Yes, as I said, you have to trust them

rchern

@Lasse do you use the iphone app?

Lasse V. Karlsen

Even if they currently offer a 100% secure system, that is reviewed, and given thumbs up, they could replace those javascripts tomorrow

I have it installed

It's not very good

rchern

oh ):

was gonna say i should install it hehe

Lasse V. Karlsen

It beats having nothing, but what I did was add a link to the "Login!" javascript in the browser

which means that if I end up on a login page I have the password to, I just hit that login link in the browser (on my iPhone), and it logs me in

It won't detect new and changed passwords, but that rarely happens on the iPhone anyway

rchern

i've been using lastpass for a bit on computer, but still in the collecting stage rather than changing all my passwords to be more secure

so it isn't really an issue on my phone yet

hmm, login javascript?

Lasse V. Karlsen

1:37 PM

bookmarklet

rchern

i need to research this

spoulson

For the last 4 years I've been using this crummy tool I wrote myself. It's not perfect, but it's built such that the password you login with is used as the cipher key, so it's not stored anywhere.

Lasse V. Karlsen

When you're logged in on their website, in the left menu, you have a link for "bookmarklets"

spoulson

All Web UI is over SSL

Lasse V. Karlsen

What you need to do is to copy the javascript of the bookmarklets you want, and send to yourself through an email, as normal text

Then read that email on the iPhone and copy the text

You can't hold on the javascript links on the iPhone to save them, doesn't work, so you need to make a normal link to anything at all, then paste in a new url, which can be that javascript

Of course, if you have MobileMe, or something that synchronizes your url's to your iPhone, you can use that, but I had some problems with the IE bookmark synchronization in this respect, so I just did it manually

rchern

1:39 PM

got it

and won't require the premium subscription, so bonus!

Lasse V. Karlsen

Nope, not at all :)

rchern

will play around with it

thanks!

Lasse V. Karlsen

Of course, the website works abysmally on the iPhone, so if you want to get hold of the actual password text on the iPhone, for instance to paste into a twitter client, you should go for the lastpass app

radp

@rchern chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/208686#208686

this one is for you ↑ pity both instances of StackFlair seem broken :)

rchern

both??!

explain!

):

radp

1:42 PM

stackflair.com gives a server error page

stackflair.somee.com just reloads the form

rchern

yeah i know

oh hrm

stackflair.com doesn't work because of

6

Q: Problem converting .ico in byte array to Image object

I am trying to take favicons and add them to a dynamic image that I am creating. See StackFlair. The website code works fine locally, and on one shared hosting server. blah blah, free hosting plan, you get what you pay for, blah blah My trouble is that I get an exception from a new hosting set...

c# .net asp.net gdi+

i'll look at somee

seems to load on my profile though

rchern ♦, St. Louis, MO

3.7k 4 15

gmail webapp-rec facebook twitter google-docs google search

radp

@rchern sure, but I can't seem to make a new one for the asker

rchern

headed in to work but i have a conf call first thing so i'll be able to look lol

The Unhandled Exception

Morning everyone

Piers Myers

'afternoon Josh

radp

1:53 PM

@TheUnhandledException morning (and hah! I'm about to start my weekend.)

The Unhandled Exception

@radp Lucky dog. I wish I were!

@PiersMyers Good afternoon. I forgot, where are you again?

Piers Myers

@TheUnhandledException UK

The Unhandled Exception

Ah yes

Piers Myers

so no power outage fiascos last night then?

The Unhandled Exception

@rchern I tell you again (when you return) you're welcome to use my helper service in the meantime... :-)

@PiersMyers LOL, it's been a weird few days

We have major flooding in my local area but so far the lights have stayed on

And our datacenter repaired the UPS issue from yesterday pretty quickly, no other issues with them yet

That was the first major issue they've had in years

radp

1:57 PM

@TheUnhandledException I'm in university, so I'm not actually done ;)

Piers Myers

@TheUnhandledException that's what they tell you

@radp how many more years till you graduate?

Benjol

I really am going for the weekend now. may seeyou later...

Piers Myers

have a good one @Benjol

Chacha102

2:16 PM

WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME!?!?!?!

The Unhandled Exception

@Chacha102 Shhhh, it's OK! Calm down, we're all friends here ;-)

Yi Jiang

@Chacha102 Your bases

All of them

The Unhandled Exception

2:32 PM

LOL

Chacha102

2:58 PM

Is Javascript Threaded?

Fosco

efreedom.com = lame SO clone ripping data from SO. i.e. efreedom.com/Question/1-740482/…

Chacha102

I repeat: Is Javascript Threaded?

Michael Mrozek

@Fosco According to a comment on the big list of sites that steal SO data, that site apparently attributes it correctly

37

A: Is it legal to copy Stack Overflow questions and answers?

There are a number of "illegal" clones popping up which use the cc-wiki data without following the attribution terms (these are linked at the bottom of every webpage, and included as a .txt file in every data dump we produce). Here's a place to list all the illegal clones, since we didn't have o...