Tavern on the Meta

That is, there are relatively few [objective-c] [opinion-based] questions in the system, so due to the way it filters it can come up empty several times before finding one.

Undo the Snowman

Oooh.

Shog9

I can reproduce it using the same filter.

Undo the Snowman

4:29 AM

Yup, it works great when just filtering by [objective-c] without a reason. Still, it probably wouldn't be a waste of time to have someone look at that.

Shog9

the solution here is to get rid of all the off-topic + php / javascript questions clogging up the queue, so you have a higher chance of pulling out opinion-based ;-P

2

jmac

4:44 AM

@Shog9 Make it so number 9.

I mean, who uses php or javascript anyway? Just use jquery for that.

jadarnel27

4:59 AM

We could just delete all the PHP questions. But then who would Colonel Shrapnel terrorize?

jmac

@jadarnel27 Corporal Shrapnel maybe?

michaelb958's a Sleigh

5:25 AM

*dons S-proof armour*

Cole Johnson

5:56 AM

Don't taunt Atwood

Speaking of pluralization. I once got a "Daily limit reached. Try again in just now"

2

Well, not pluralization, but grammar errors

jmac

6:19 AM

The sample slides on this page are so incredibly awesomely pointless it makes me warm inside. "How to present something with pretty graphics while saying nothing."

michaelb958's a Sleigh

11:08 AM

That last programming question only survived twenty seconds before being put on hold. Nice work, Oded.

Duncan

11:35 AM

Urgh, working with a program that uses the phrase "obsolescence" a lot. Man that's hard to spell.

Bart

11:50 AM

Say it in a whispering voice and it will sound like a fragrance @Duncan.

3

Duncan

Lol

3

Bart

hahaha

michaelb958's a Sleigh

12:14 PM

@Duncan "Obsolescence by Stack Exchange: A dusty fragrance to make you seem older"

Duncan

Last time I checked, Bart and I were the ones who should make millions from this excellent idea.

@Bart - You're the tough guy in our outfit. I think we've got a trouble maker here.

Obsolescence - The fragrance for that long distance, confusion-until-the-penny-drops break up.

Bart

3

Chameleon

1:52 PM

Bart why you marking valid question and unclear???

Do you have some interest in advertisment?

Duncan

@Chameleon, I'd be surprised if @Bart has anything to add to his clear answer and follow-up comments on your meta question.

Chameleon

I found often that Bart mark my question and invalid without reason so I think he has some business/money in it - do think others?

Duncan

I think you are alone in that opinion. Bart is a well-respected member of the community with no agenda other than furthering the quality of what is on these sites.

Chameleon

I just want to share my option because it repeats very often.

He must have some agenda in it or it is high lucky strike.

Stackoverflow spirit suffers from Bart activities - he talk to me stupid things - like clear question is unclear - do you think that is normal?

I give you some try of this

I have already told you so. You are not asking a question. You're making a request at most. A request to solve your problems for you. And while user can and have taken to that request, that does not mean that you've asked a question appropriate for the site. You have to solve your own problems, perhaps with our help. If you want people to do your work for you, that's fine, but then pay them and don't ask that on SO.

Duncan

I read the question, @Chameleon, and agree with Bart's message. If you disagree, that's fine. But I'm not going to discuss it further here.

Chameleon

2:09 PM

Good, I am not want to discuss with you. If you are loyal to Bart you will be only subjective so it leads to nothing - you are understand for sure :)

Do you think that there is other alternative to Stackoverflow - where is no problems with "moderators" like Bart - I want to switch since my satisfaction drops down last year - there is too many moderators but only some people want help but their help is often broken by moderators.

I think Stackoverflow loosing spirit of helpfulness/usefullness.

Bart

I'm not a moderator. Just a regular user. That's all. And I've said what I needed to say. Not going to repeat any of it here when all you want is confrontation.

Chameleon

I do not want to write same question three time since somebody points duplicate which is really buggy and not working answer which can be partially trashed.

user2987828

@Chameleon, you may better edit your close question to link these old questions and explain that their answer was nonworking.

I have another problem here at SE:

Chameleon

Bart it is not confrontation - I will apologize if I am do something wrong - you not prove that you are right - I prove that was right.

user2987828

About the question that are on topic for SE: -I easily can answer some of them (4% of quarter, having just started 31 days ago and having given 350 rep in bounties).

Bart

2:18 PM

Yeah, not confrontational at all. Just try to follow some of the advice you've been given. Even I have told you "If you clarify the question with that in mind, and address some of the concerns regarding what exactly you want to achieve, then I'm pretty sure your question would be no longer unclear." Do with it what you want. Dragging this in here or focusing on me is not going to lead anywhere. Good luck.

user2987828

- But I rarely have such answers to ask.

Chameleon

@user2987828 I point three times that my question is not duplicate and two time "use moderators" mark it as duplicate - not reading carefull of to make problem :)

Duncan

On a completely unrelated note, I've just tested the "ignore user" feature on chat and it's quite effective. Although I wonder if it should hide messages that are @replies too.

Chameleon

@Ducan Maybe you need other option.

user2987828

- and when I have questions that I need for my work, they are often off topic, so even with bounties they end up closed.

jadarnel27

2:21 PM

@Duncan there's a feature request for that on Meta.

Bart

@user2987828 not sure that's a problem though. I'm in the same situation, having never asked a question on SO in all the time I'm here.

user2987828

So I have not much satisfaction on SE sites.

Chameleon

@Ducan I just want to not show my question to some persons and not see their comment - for example @Bart - I need such mute option - I just not want to meet people which doing some not need pain.

@Ducan Maybe it is same to your ignoring

user2987828

For example: stackoverflow.com/questions/20459834/…

jadarnel27

@user2987828 Reading your existing question, it's kind of...poorly phrased.

What you should say is what you're trying to do, and where you got stuck / what didn't work.

Chameleon

2:25 PM

What is wrong with this question?

@jadarnel27 Can you cite something?

jadarnel27

@user2987828 The fact that you originally asked "Produce for me an APK..." is going to be received negatively. As it sounds like an assignment, or a demand.

user2987828

Another example: discuss.area51.stackexchange.com/questions/12634/…

And I reposted this second example to meta: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/211404/…

Chameleon

I give you also some example of Bart activities - what is wrong here: stackoverflow.com/questions/20376585/…

Very clear question ...

Someone want to help with this

Why it is marked as off-topic?

user2987828

@jadarnel27 according to comments, "Produce for me an APK..." was the only possible answer to the earliest text of this question, so I just change the title to reflect what was the only possible thing.

bluefeet

@Chameleon It is asking for a recommendation which is off-topic

@Chameleon you specifically say Is there and tool for it

Chameleon

2:29 PM

@bluefeet No I am asking why Bart marked this as off-topic stackoverflow.com/questions/20376585

So you can edit?

user2987828

I agree that this was off-topic, but I figured someone was going to take those 150 rep anyway, with 5 minute of his time.

Chameleon

I give you second example of same question wihout tool :)

bluefeet

@Chameleon If Bart didn't mark it as off-topic someone else would have - it is off-topic

Bart

@Chameleon my reason for marking that one off-topic might indeed come as a surprise, but I'll give it to you in my own words

Chameleon

@bluefeet closed as off-topic by Wooble, Bart, zero323, halfer, IAbstract Dec 4 at 21:06

Bart

2:31 PM

"Questions asking us to recommend or find a tool, library or favorite off-site resource are off-topic for Stack Overflow as they tend to attract opinionated answers and spam. Instead, describe the problem and what has been done so far to solve it."

Chameleon

@Bart super!

bluefeet

@Chameleon that mean 5 people found your question off-topic not just Bart

Bart

You're welcome

user2987828

@Bart So what do you like when you are spending your (free?) time on SO ?

Chameleon

I give you next question example the same

stackoverflow.com/questions/20447831 why this is off-topic @Bart???

bluefeet

2:32 PM

@Chameleon Questions asking for code must demonstrate a minimal understanding of the problem being solved. Include attempted solutions, why they didn't work, and the expected results

Chameleon

Exactly the same question but there not "tool" - whatever is it not censorship forbid "tool"

Bart

@user2987828 Apparently I am one of the bastards unfairly closing questions. :p But besides that I do enjoy some editing here. (I think I'm at 4k edited posts or something like that) Answer occasionally. Participate in meta. And of course I yell "Brown" to @jadarnel27 on occasion.

@Chameleon I have nothing to do with that question. But it's bad. And the close reason tells you why.

Chameleon

I not understand you frustration with other people questions?

And I will not understand.

Bart

There's no frustration @Chameleon. I'm a happy fellow. I am however concerned with and for the site's quality. Those are different things.

bluefeet

@Chameleon he didn't even vote to close that question

jadarnel27

2:34 PM

@user2987828 I have edited your question to make it a bit easier to swallow. Please check it out, and obviously, feel free to revise or rollback if I changed your meaning.

@Bart I'm always appreciative of you yelling at me.

Chameleon

You expression not meet my feelings :)

Bart

BROWN!

Chameleon

So how you will mark this:

user2987828

@jadarnel27 Thanks @jadarnel27.

Chameleon

How to check memory usage by modules in app engine to eliminate waste of memory?

@bart?

If you can decide about it at all?

ChrisForrence

2:36 PM

I have a small question regarding the [gwt] tag excerpt. It looks very similar to the lead paragraph on the GWT overview. Is the excerpt too unoriginal?

Chameleon

@Bart I think you not use Google App Engine - am I right?

Bart

@Chameleon Let's put it like this: if you think I'm behaving in an unacceptable manner, just flag such an occasion for moderator attention and let them have a look. And let that be it. I have other things to do than participate is this unconstructive nonsense. (Well, no I don't, but I won't).

bluefeet

@Chameleon You do realize that Bart isn't the only other user on SO right? You post a question and everyone gets to decide if it is content that should be on the site.

jadarnel27

@user2987828 No problem.

Chameleon

@bluefeet I will talk with you after @bart will response.

@Bart I think you not use Google App Engine - am I right?

Bart

2:37 PM

@bluefeet admittedly my sockpuppets do make up 93% of the SO users. But you're right.

Chameleon

@Bart I think you not use Google App Engine - am I right?

silence also has meaning ... if it is too long

Bart

Yep, such as "Go Away!".

2

Chameleon

That is all you want decide where you do not have expertise so it is random.

I explained it on meta.

jadarnel27

@Chameleon If you keep spamming the same message in here over and over, they will start to be flagged. Bart sees your questions. He's not obligated to respond.

Duncan

... you just click on the user, press "ignore this user" and life gets so quiet.

Chameleon

2:41 PM

Can I ignore @bart to no see his "off-topic" and other comments on questions?

@ducan?

jadarnel27

I don't ignore users in chat anymore.

Duncan

Sounds like there's a story there...?

Bart

Nah @Duncan. I don't hard-ignore anyone here. I like to have the full view. My soft-ignore works just fine.

jadarnel27

Mostly because I think the ignore feature is a little incomplete (for the same reasons you mentioned @Duncan).

ChrisForrence

@Chameleon - No, that is not a feature (that would be too much like a social network, which SO is not)

Chameleon

2:43 PM

@ChrisForrence What is a pity I do not like contact with Bart at all - do I have to - if I do not like at all.

user2987828

@jadarnel27 Looks like you unholded my question right away ? I updated the title and also took out the mention of the APK.

Chameleon

In Facebook I can close communication if somebody doing wrong things or some kind profanity

Why I can not so it in SO?

Undo the Snowman

I'm still excited that we're getting a write API really soon.

(or kinda soon)

Bart

6-8 weeks @UndotheSnowman.

bluefeet

@Chameleon So just ignore him on your own

ChrisForrence

2:44 PM

Because MySpaceBook+ is a social network. Stack Overflow and the Stack Exchange sites are not social networks.

Chameleon

@ch

@ChrisForrence Social is abstract - program can do ignore list or not - feature.

porgrammers

user2987828

@jadarnel27, I would like to offer some bounty to you. Is that allowed here ?

Chameleon

I just want to not present my content to some selected people and not meet them again :)

Undo the Snowman

0

Q: need some help regarding which book i should choose

i am new to this site and this is my first question , i am a complete new programmer and i am willing to learn c language , my maths is not good and someone said me to learn discrete maths along the c language .so , please help me choosing a good discrete mathematics book that i should read . E...

discussion

^ Go kill.

jadarnel27

@user2987828 That's very kind of you! There is no need to do that, though. I'm glad to help =)

ChrisForrence

2:46 PM

And besides (and let me know if I'm making invalid assumptions), @Bart is a great guy. He volunteers at the local library reading to children, makes blueberry pancakes and always uses his turn signal.

Undo the Snowman

ROFL

Chameleon

@ChrisForrence Do you live with @Bart in same city?

Or we should not trust you?

Undo the Snowman

@Chameleon He follows Bart around making sure he uses his turn signal.

Bart

Actually, @Chris is one of the "children" I read to. He's a bit big to participate, but his satisfied lip smacks while eating those blueberrry pancakes make it all worth it.

Chameleon

Myths :)

user2987828

2:51 PM

@Chameleon Thank you to you also, this question was very useful to me, and I didn't had the guts to ask it.

Chameleon

I feel the same

Maybe quora now or forums ...

If SO spirit is dying :)

I will share my opinion with Google App Engine Team that suggestion support on SO is bad choice - some things is change from last year. :)

user2987828

@jadarnel27 What is wrong with the question meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/211404/… ? How do you think I could edit to make that one also easier to swallow ? Maybe it is impossible ?

Chameleon

Link not works :)

@user2987828 I think they not treat you seriously as it was some time ago :)

Undo the Snowman

@Chameleon It's deleted.

10k only.

Chameleon

Not u..d what mean 10k :)

Undo the Snowman

2:56 PM

10,000 reputation points.

Chameleon

Not u..d what do you mean 10k :)

user2987828

@Chameleon To be able to see a deleted message, you need to be the author or 10000 reputations points.

@Chameleon "u..d", what does it mean ?

Undo the Snowman

@user2987828 You're probably not going to be able to rephrase that one to make it on-topic here.

Chameleon

understand = u..d

jadarnel27

@user2987828 I can't see it either, I am also less than 10k =)

Undo the Snowman

2:57 PM

You'd need to ask for site within SE, @user2987828.

@user2987828 Are you ok with me posting a screenshot of it?

Chameleon

Not care ...

user2987828

@UndotheSnowman Yes you can repost it, after all it was public for some hours.

Undo the Snowman

^ There we go.

Now @jadarnel27 can see it ;)

Chameleon

I do not want use SO ... after some moderator insult me I contributes some content and he set my reputation to 1 :)

ChrisForrence

Yeeeeah...that'd be hard to get on-topic

user2987828

3:00 PM

@UndotheSnowman But I did it, on discuss.area51.stackexchange.com/questions/12634/… and the answer was no.

Undo the Snowman

Ah, yes... we don't really do recommendations here.

It doesn't work well with the voting model

I'm just trying to figure out how you could get it undeleted. Not sure that's what you want, though.

Chameleon

Moderator set my reputation from 1k to 1 point because he marked off-topic question since there was off-topic comment of dragonx and when he explain mistake not want to repair it :):):) - what kind of man is he/she :)

Bart

@user2987828 to answer your last comment there, I don't think there is a site within the network where you could get much further with that question.

Undo the Snowman

@Chameleon If you're unhappy with a moderator, go ahead and post on Meta Stack Overflow. We're not qualified to speak for mods.

Chameleon

Moderator delete all comments to not allow proof the he do mistake and insult me :)
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20447831

Undo the Snowman

3:03 PM

Post on mSO.

Bart

Nah, if you have a serious problem with a moderator, don't post on MSO. Just contact the team directly.

Chameleon

Can not post since has not points

Bart

meta.stackoverflow.com/contact

Undo the Snowman

@Chameleon You're not suspended on Meta.

You can post.

Chameleon

I send it to team but there is not reponse

Undo the Snowman

3:04 PM

meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/ask

Bart

Be patient, they will get back to you at some point. But they are usually quite busy.

Chameleon

How to post with ask question of submit form?

Undo the Snowman

@Chameleon Just go to meta and click the big ask question button.

meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/ask

^ or use that link

Chameleon

Sorry, we are no longer accepting questions from this account. See the Help Center to learn more.

Why I recieve.

Bart

That's on SO. Not on Meta

Chameleon

3:05 PM

sry

Bart

Ah wait, you might be post-banned then

Undo the Snowman

@Bart We don't do qbans on mSO, do we?

Bart

Yep we do

Undo the Snowman

oh

;P

Chameleon

Some here ;)
Sorry, we are no longer accepting questions from this account. See the Help Center to learn more.

Bart

3:05 PM

But you have to have a lot of significantly downvoted content

Chameleon

meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/ask

bad receiving

Undo the Snowman

Well, just wait for them to respond.

Chameleon

it is not my fault

Undo the Snowman

I bet there's something you did wrong ;)

Bart

So @Chameleon, simply contact the team using the content form. But given that you've already done so, just wait for a response. That's all. Public discussion of suspensions is usually not a good idea anyway.

Undo the Snowman

3:06 PM

Yup

Just wait.

Chameleon

sometime people have own receiving I can not control that

I am calling it "hunt for witch" - you can not decide since not expertise but want to "judge" :)

user2987828

@UndotheSnowman That will cost me reputation points but it is for my work, si I actually won't mind: see my chat messages linked here: chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/1676165#1676165 chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/1676168#1676168 chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/1676170#1676170

Undo the Snowman

Meh, wait for a response. If there was a mistake, there's a 99.99999999999% chance it will be corrected. We're not in the business of thumping random users.

Chameleon

I will send some feedback to team again via e-mail it is better I think :)

Undo the Snowman

And if there wasn't, you'll get a good explanation.

Chameleon

3:09 PM

Always works.

Undo the Snowman

But don't keep sending them email.

They're busy folks.

Chameleon

They did not respond so ... I just waiting on response.

I am becoming busy now

I must go bye

user2987828

@UndotheSnowman I understand. But can I promise a bounty of +50 to first four people to answer ?

Chameleon

@Bart do not be expertise from all because it not bring friends - you choice of course :)

better be good expertise in some areas :)

user2987828

Typo in chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/1676419#1676419: s/si I actually won't mind/so I actually won't mind/

Undo the Snowman

3:12 PM

;)

@user2987828 Not sure you can do that.

Also, you'd need to get the question undeleted - which isn't going to happen in its current form.

user2987828

I could give +50 points to answers by same people on others questions. But it may be off netiquette.

Bart

@user2987828 And you couldn't technically do that. Any subsequent bounty would have to be double the previous one.

user2987828

@UndotheSnowman Can you explain how I could change it, given that your first indication chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/1676419#1676419 already got two negative answers

Undo the Snowman

@user2987828 I'm pretty sure that you would have to edit it to be about sites inside of SE. The answer will still be no, but at least it won't be deleted. Again, I'm not sure you really want it to be undeleted.

user2987828

@UndotheSnowman I don't mind the negative rep that would generate. I could also tell that the question is off topic of MSO, and that I am just asking for a better forum of the SE family to post it ?

Undo the Snowman

3:24 PM

Yep, exactly.

Also, since a mod deleted it, you'll need to flag it with a custom reason saying you'd like it undeleted.

user2987828

@UndotheSnowman Ok i'll try.

Undo the Snowman

good luck ;)

Bart

@user2987828 You are always free to ask for a site-recommendation (in fact, that is a tag) within the network. If you revise it as such I'll vote to undelete. But be aware that the answer is "it doesn't exist and is unlikely to ever exist".

Undo the Snowman

@Bart Us mortals can't vote to undeleted that one.

Bart

Ah, a mod got in after me?

Undo the Snowman

3:26 PM

Yup.

Bill did

user2987828

@Bart Yes, but my only hope is that I will also get an off-topic answer, with the link to a website where I could host the question meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/211404/…

Bart

@user2987828 would it not be far more productive to just go for a chatroom on an English language related site and ask there?

user2987828

@Bart ELL, english.SE or writers ?

Undo the Snowman

Prob. not ELL.

Bart

@user2987828 Something like that. I don't participate on those sites, and don't know what they welcome in chat, but figuring that out would be simpler than going for the convoluted MSO route.

user2987828

3:32 PM

@Bart Thanks.

Bye all

cya

cya

Take care

3:54 PM

@ChrisForrence I feel like your tag wiki question got lost in the fray back there.

I don't know anything about GWT, but unless it's a straight copy/paste, I think it's fine. If it is a straight copy/paste, perhaps just an update providing attribution would be in order.

(I don't deal with tag wikis all that often)

ChrisForrence

It did get kinda buried, but yeah. It's not a straight copy/paste, but some of the sentences are exact

@jadarnel27 - And unfortunately, it can't be attributed very easily without doing some rewriting (it's just below the character limit)

I'm not familiar with GWT, so I probably shouldn't be the one to edit it either.

Tiny Tim

4:10 PM

@Chameleon Support was sort of backed up for a couple of days, you should get a response shortly

Bart

@TinyTim Do users get a notification at all that their message has been received?

Tiny Tim

@Bart No. Well, the form lets them know that it has.

Undo the Snowman

No one really trusts contact us forms.

Bart

Ah okay, thanks @TinyTim.

jadarnel27

Don't users always get an email (or onsite message) when they are suspended?

Explaining exactly why.

Undo the Snowman

4:14 PM

I think so.

ChrisForrence

And now I have Livin' In The Sunlight stuck in my head.

jadarnel27

As a moderator, @Bart should be able to answer my question.

Bart

Hehe, afaik they do indeed get a message on suspension @jadarnel27. I remember asking Shog that once when a user stated "I am suspended but I have no clue why".

jadarnel27

=)

Thanks for the confirmation (Undo and Bart).

Tiny Tim

@Chameleon Shog9 responded to you via the moderator message two days ago - you should have gotten that via email as well. He's an employee (a community manager), and that was our response. Sorry about the confusion.

You can contact me at tpost@stackoverflow.com if you have additional questions (best to discuss this via email instead of chat)

jadarnel27

4:23 PM

@Bart By the way, you just implicitly admitted to being a moderator. So...stop trying to deny it to the users you've been abusing.

Bart

I don't remember signing any agreement @jadarnel27. I can abuse as much as I want.

jadarnel27

4:41 PM

Fair enough, @Bart.

Bart

Until those who have signed the agreement step in and suspend me of course.... of which I should get notified.

Hmm, perhaps I should just mail Tim pre-emptively

GnomeSlice

5:33 PM

Hohoho

animuson

I would have expected a pixelated hat.

Wooble

My faith in SO is restored; Saw a question tagged fix, and 159 others using the tag. Only 1 of the 159 was being as stupid as I expected all of them to be. Go whoever's been watching that tag!

GnomeSlice

@animuson Yeah maybe. That document is a pain in the ass to work with though

I don't even know if I still have the original

Bart

5:49 PM

@GnomeSlice FAKE! I can tell because of the ehm ... well ....

GnomeSlice

@Bart pixels? ;]

Bart

Yeah. :)

animuson

0

Q: What is the proper procedure for cleaning up a community FAQ?

I've been in the process of going through some of our community FAQs and cleaning them up, as well as reorganizing the index to make it easier to find relevant topics. In an effort to get users the information they want rather than scanning through a five-answer discussion with similar or controv...

discussion meta meta-faq

Cole Johnson

6:49 PM

Is there no Winter Bash this year

Bart

32

A: WinterBash 2013

You're getting secrets. For now. :) Keep an eye out on our blog; we'll make an announcement there when we're ready to share the details publicly.

ElfSlice

Today's Listening

ElfSlice

7:53 PM

24

A: WinterBash 2013

Since it's not really a secret anymore: Winter Bash 2013 will start on December 16th. Here's a little teaser, with apologies to Marco and Laura: (Yes, this year you'll be able to customize the hat's position on your avatar.)