Tavern on the Meta

animuson

12:30 AM

He swings, and it's a miss.

animuson

2:36 AM

Haha, I was wondering why my tag wiki edit never showed up in the queue, then I realized I had 20k rep now. Derp.

jadarnel27

3:26 AM

Just sent off my resume to the guy about the contract job. We shall see where this goes, I suppose.

In an unrelated note, (real, physical) mail is tedious. Blegh.

mootinator

4:10 AM

Too lazy to format my most recent SO answer.

Meh.

Goodnight.

animuson

4:43 AM

One of those times when you wish you had the "general reference" close reason.

jadarnel27

4:58 AM

Wow. For real.

Flexo

7:26 AM

0

Q: why firefox browser is running inside Tomcat?

when i want to run my xhtml file, firefox browser is running inside Tomcat. what shall i do? please help me. before this page, it worked well. but now firefox browser running inside the eclipse. i don't know what i should do. personel.xhtml <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?> <!DO...

not sure where to begin on that.

Tim Yi Jiang

11:17 AM

0

A: fn keys for brightness not working on an hp 6735s

recently, i had the same problem. Here is the link with the solution that worked on my laptop http://algodecodigo.blogspot.mx/2012/07/problema-al-cambiar-brillo-en-pantalla.html best regards :)

A mod declined my NAA flag on this answer saying that the user might come back and edit into the answer a translated excerpt of the linked blog as per his comment.

I think he's a little too optimistic :P

Flexo

1:11 PM

@TimYiJiang non SO mods tend to have a much more optimistic view towards link only answers

Popular Demand

50

A: Do you think that moderators from MSDN forums should use our answers word for word?

This is nothing new. I called MS for support once on some very obscure issue, and while they were researching they sent me an email with "some things to try." While I was reading it, I was thinking, "damn, this is familiar." The tech had copied one of my blog posts detailing my issue and what ...

Flexo

I've had a few NAA flags on link only answers declined with "flags should not be used to indicate technical errors" on smaller sites. I have no idea if the one I'm thinking of was technically correct or not, I didn't even read the link.

Popular Demand

27

Q: Individual community preferences vs. SE network policy: who wins?

In the recent question Where can I ask a question about advice for my job?, the OP asks where the following question would be appropriate: What would be the best way to approach someone that works for me about bad odor? CHAOS team member Abby Miller responded by suggesting the proposal The ...

discussion policy all-sites

Flexo

@PopularDemand I think it's mostly that with lower volume they can afford to sit around and watch things which wouldn't scale on SO

Tim Yi Jiang

@Flexo It's Ask Ubuntu - the volume is one of the highest 2.0 sites

I think now everybody would agree it was a very good idea back then to keep AU and U&L separate

AU now gets a ton of crap every day

Flexo

1:20 PM

didn't realise they had that much traffic

jadarnel27

I wonder if this guy is going to try and roll through all the "google-chrome bug" questions.

He's probably only making such slow progress because of that vile rate limiter Tim Stone has been complaining about.

Tim Yi Jiang

@jadarnel27 Bug from 2 years ago? Must be caused by Chrome 18!

jadarnel27

1:40 PM

@TimYiJiang Of course. Time traveling bugs!

Spamming an answer across a bunch of questions tends to not work well. In this case, the question was already solved, and based on the ask date the user was on Chrome 3, so he probably wasn't experiencing a bug from Chrome 18 — Michael Mrozek 3 mins ago

jokerdino

ok. why are we talking about the amount of crap in AU?

jadarnel27

@balpha Wow, you really went out of your way to be helpful with that google-chrome guy and he is not having it.

Tim Yi Jiang

1:55 PM

Hmmm, gravatars are not loading for me again

jokerdino

same..

i see invisible people

Popular Demand

Well... you guys are obviously right, but he also has a point. If the Chrome 3 and Chrome 18 bugs have the same symptoms, someone with the 18 bug could very well search Meta and end up at the 3 question.

jokerdino

ok to be exact, i can't see the invisible people.

@PopularDemand btw, that guy has been spamming similar poor quality answers in Ask Ubuntu and Super User.

BRB

Tim Yi Jiang

@PopularDemand Sure, but it's only the superficial symptoms that are the same.

The actual cause isn't, and since Chrome most likely fixed the original problem a long time ago these bug reports aren't useful, especially to the original OP

Flexo

woah he asked superuser.com/questions/453825/… and answered it 4 times

Tim Yi Jiang

2:00 PM

The correct way, mind you, is to post a new question and self-answer it

Flexo

(at least, I don't have 10k on su)

Tim Yi Jiang

Has anyone suggested that?

Popular Demand

@TimYiJiang Someone suggested taking over one of the existing Chrome 3 questions and making it generic. Mrozek, I think. (Something like that is what I was thinking of when I made my previous statement.)

Tim Yi Jiang

Best to just post a new one

Anyway, why aren't these really old, not actually relevant anymore bug reports deleted?

Popular Demand

In general yes, although in this case I think "upgrade to a current version" is a trump card.

jadarnel27

2:03 PM

He just accused balpha of only being interested in rep, not actually fixing problems =)

Tim Yi Jiang

Could you post a link to that? So we can have it recorded... for posterity

Popular Demand

I, too, hope to one day be a Stack Exchange dev, for the sole purpose of opening a back door to extra rep for my own account only.

jadarnel27

This is the bug which weren't fixed yet, because people like you all care about points, duplicates and what's most important, don't care about the right answers, only the voting system. In my opinion, it should be allowed only to down-vote by original author. — kenorb 5 mins ago

2

Flexo

@jadarnel27 clearly you only posted that for chat stars :P

jadarnel27

The comment directly before that one, balpha identified himself as a Stack Exchange dev haha.

Flexo

2:04 PM

predicting "voters must explain votes" in under 10 minutes

jadarnel27

@Flexo Ha. Well yeah. I don't just post here to to talk to you guys =P

Popular Demand

@TimYiJiang That describes half the posts on Meta. I try closing them as too localized once in a while, but it usually doesn't take.

Tim Yi Jiang

Yeah, I guess the manpower to actually do that is too much

Tim Stone

@TimYiJiang The symptoms being "stuff doesn't work" :P

balpha

pretty telling "about me" text

Tim Stone

2:13 PM

As an aside, I'm actually confused how people end up with that flag enabled in the first place. I thought perhaps it was enabled by default, but that doesn't seem to be the case on any of my Chrome instances.

Heh

balpha

What I'm more confused about is why people still run around with Chrome 18.

Tim Yi Jiang

#first-world-anachists

jadarnel27

@TimStone It's not turned on in either of mine.

Popular Demand

Yeah, I thought Chrome required users to keep auto-update on. That's one of the reasons I stopped using it.

Tim Yi Jiang

@PopularDemand Chromium shouldn't require auto update

Tim Stone

2:18 PM

@balpha Fair point.

jadarnel27

wonders why @balpha is wasting time in here when he could be rep-whoring on MSO

Tim Stone

Argh, I don't think I can finish updating Electronic's digest today either! |:

looks in @AnnaLear's direction... :D

Anna Lear

@TimStone I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING. YOU CAN PROVE NOTHING.

Wait, what? Hi.

Tim Stone

The system is a meanie and won't let me edit a sufficient number of my digest answers to incorporate the responses of a later-comer to the Electronics Town Hall. Any chance you and your super powers would be free to copy+paste a few things for me if necessary?

Popular Demand

Apparently coding is just something SE employees do to pass the time while they wait to be @-mentioned in the Tavern.

11

Tim Stone

2:24 PM

Everyone likes to feel loved.

balpha

depends on by whom

Tim Stone

shakes fist at system

Anna Lear

@TimStone Sure thing

Flexo

ELU is a strange place. I got 80 rep there today by chance after looking at the voting for talking about abandoned kittens

Tim Stone

@AnnaLear Awesome, thank you so much! At the bottom of this document, under "New Answers", are the four things it won't let me edit in with the links to the relevant answers above them. Should just be able to paste them in and everything'll be good.

Anna Lear

2:34 PM

@TimStone All done. :)

Tim Stone

Just saw the notifications :D Thanks again!

I'll get started on the DIY digest here in a few minutes...should go up in a little over two hours for anyone interested.

The EL&U Town Hall will be on Wednesday (9:00 PM EDT, 1:00 UTC) if anyone's interested in showing up to ask questions.

Flexo

I might drop by if I remember

jokerdino

2:55 PM

walks off.

walks on.

paint the fence

licks window

catch fly

sand the deck

jadarnel27

May 23 at 15:25, by Tim Stone

wheels @TimYiJiang off to the insane asylum.

jadarnel27

3:25 PM

I don't really get why people are voting to close this question.

Flexo

@jadarnel27 it does look more like a blog post than a question

Anna Lear

It's meta. tagged [discussion]. plenty of precedents of announcement-type posts being made like that.

Although the whole "summer of love" subject tends to put folks on the defensive a bit.

Flexo

I didn't vote on that one either way but I don't understand why it didn't make blog post #3 in the series which seems like a more natural place for it

or immediately locked

mootinator

I bet comments which begin with -1 are generally perceived as unfriendly.

Flexo

the only possible answer is to argue with the examples which given the lack of context is a waste of time

jadarnel27

3:30 PM

@Flexo Right, but it's not going to get migrated to the blog =) It just seems kind of antagonistic to vote to close the discussion question.

mootinator

@jadarnel27 > -1 not enough freehand circles

jadarnel27

@mootinator I recently read an answer by a mod (Robert Harvey, perhaps?) that said including things like "-1" or "+1" in comments is just noise, and thus discouraged.

But I agree; if you're going to explain your downvote, just explain what's wrong with the answer / question. No need to bring up the voting.

Flexo

@jadarnel27 it makes a lot of sense although you do get people speculating angrily about which of the comments was the voter

jadarnel27

@Flexo That's true. Even worse are the comments that say "I'm not the downvoter, but...[explanation]" (although I think I may have done that before).

Or "[answer bashing]...PS: I did not downvote"

Anonymous

@Flexo I'm glad it wasn't locked. I think the answers were useful feedback, and blog comments do not seem cary the same weight. It's an unusual post, but I'll probably vote to reopen.

Flexo

3:36 PM

@jadarnel27 I've done that one sometimes to try and be nice to people who clearly don't understand the downvote, but more often than not they end up getting angry at you

jadarnel27

@Flexo Yeah, that's not too surprising (people just getting angry).

Ah, this was the post I was thinking of:

50

Q: Is it OK to indicate that I downvoted in a comment?

This is from my Flagging Summary: [Me:] Where did my comment go? It was a factual explanation for the -1, and I did keep it strictly neutral in tone. – 7 hours ago [Mod:] declined - Comments regarding upvotes/downvotes/acceptance rate are noise on the Stack Exchange network and are re...

discussion comments declined-flags

Both Robert Harvey's and Ben Brocka's answers are really good there.

jokerdino

3:54 PM

hey guys

i am just playing with the sandbox here - meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/3122/formatting-sandbox/…

it has a nagging bug if you can notice

Tim Stone

Argh...the "tap tap tap" of a new roof being put on a few houses down is making it super hard to concentrate.

jadarnel27

How rude of them to not consider your schedule in their construction plans!

@jokerdino What's the bug?

jokerdino

the image goes off.

meta.stackoverflow.com/posts/141789/revisions check markdown diff and render diff

Tim Stone

@jadarnel27 I know, right?

jokerdino

@jadarnel27 try to see what the actual source renders in the preview and what it actually renders

i'll be back tomorrow and will leave you detectives at work :-)

jadarnel27

4:06 PM

Oh, I see! In the editor preview, it appears to render correctly. But the actual revision renders wrong. I wonder which one is incorrect?

Tim Stone

Checking...

Though the real issue was that you should just use a blank line to create a new paragraph there.

Anonymous

@jokerdino Good find.

jadarnel27

@TimStone Ohhh. I saw that someone fixed that in revision three by changing the image link that was wrapped in the hyperlink.

Tim Stone

They actually just added space between the second image and the previous paragraph.

jadarnel27

@TimStone You should send them a detailed, hand-written letter in the mail that outlines your displeasure with their activities.

Oh. I must have looked at the diff wrong. Silly Josh.

Flexo

4:12 PM

@jadarnel27 I only hand write stuff I want to make sure people can't read and quote back at me later :)

Tim Stone

@jadarnel27 I'm mostly just hoping they'll be done today. :P

@jadarnel27 They're both correct.

jadarnel27

@Flexo Todo: Replace all my Stack Overflow answers with hand-written copies of the text, uploaded as images.

@TimStone Huh. So it's correct that the editor preview behaves differently than the full-on markdown renderer? (I'm probably using the wrong words for all of this)

That seems odd.

Tim Stone

Well, the preview can't do any better than it does because JavaScript's regular expressions don't support the functionality necessary to allow arbitrary nested brackets.

Well...actually, let me rethink that.

jadarnel27

I have barely thought it once, so you're ahead of me. I didn't think about the fact that the client side preview might be unavoidably limited compared to the server-side parser.

Tim Stone

4:29 PM

Hmm, this is actually an interesting problem...

It might be that MarkdownSharp should be using the nested brackets pattern within the imageRef regex, but that may cause it's own problem...let's see if that would fix it.

The Markdown parsers evaluate images before links, and ![][] style images before ![](), so because by the rules of Markdown everything on the first two revisions is actually on the first line, the server sees ![Install dconf-tools](http://hostmar.co/software-small)] ... ![enter image description here][2] and takes the most restrictive match for ![text][ref], where text is everything between the ![ and ][2].

The same thing should happen on the client though, so hmm...

jadarnel27

@TimStone So based on that explanation, the final rendered version was more correct (since the way he embedded things all on one line was unsupported, more or less). But you're thinking that the preview should be doing the same thing.

Tim Stone

4:45 PM

Well, I think the server-side can be changed to accommodate this, because I think links handle this situation correctly already, but I'm not positive without testing.

But I don't get why the preview works, either.

jadarnel27

Curiouser and curiouser.

Tim Stone

The more likely explanation is that I have no idea what I'm talking about and am off base somewhere. :P

jadarnel27

Well yeah. I'm sure we all just assume that's a possibility by now =D

Popular Demand

What's the definition of a web browser?

jadarnel27

5:02 PM

@PopularDemand Google says "a program used to view HTML documents." But I don't think they're completely unbiased.

balpha

@PopularDemand "A Facebook client"

Popular Demand

> I'm looking for a good editor for both HTML and CSS. I currently use the Firebug Firefox extension, and this is a great tool, but I'm looking for something I can use without necessarily firing up a browser. Ideally it would have a live preview of what I'm coding.

If it gives you a live preview of your HTML and CSS... isn't it a browser?

jadarnel27

"Browse" is almost as fun to say as "brown."

@PopularDemand I believe you're correct, sir.

Tim Stone

@jadarnel27 Oh, duh. facepalms a bit

RegexOptions.Singleline causes . to match \n, not...the opposite, or whatever I thought was going on. So MarkdownSharp ignores the fact that there's a newline after the <p>, whereas JavaScript doesn't have such an option (so the . doesn't match the newline, and the problem doesn't come up because there's subsequently no ![][] match)

Popular Demand

5:25 PM

Well, I can't figure out how to edit this, maybe one of you will want to take a crack at it. But I'm glad I asked, if only because I got to hear balpha opine on Facebook.

12

Q: Html CSS Editor

I'm looking for a good editor for both HTML and CSS. I currently use the Firebug Firefox extension, and this is a great tool, but I'm looking for something I can use without necessarily firing up a browser. Ideally it would have a live preview of what I'm coding. Edit: As a student, I have acces...

html css editor

jadarnel27

@TimStone That...actually makes sense to me. Good find.

Tim Stone

Making nested brackets in image declarations consistent with links in MarkdownSharp indirectly solves this case, but @balpha may have a reason why it wasn't like that to begin with.

Oh wow, look at the time...if Grace comes around asking about the digest, it was totally one of your faults. I'll get on that (and putting food in the oven) now...

Popular Demand

6:07 PM

A later comment indicates that there is actually an image there that just didn't load for me -- probably blocked by my corporate filter -- but I suspect this way is funnier anyhow.

Tim Stone

"Want a better job? We can help you in under 20 days"
"I in this business of 15 years. Believe to very many people our help has changed a life to the best."

Oh, well let me call that number to order a degree...

Hahah :P

mootinator

Time spent unsuccessfully explaining how to convert xml to csv using xslt and IE. 6 hours.

Time spent automating the process in a Windows Forms app. 36 minutes.

O_o.

Popular Demand

It's weird that "excerpt not helpful" appears near the top of the edit suggestion reject reason box while "wiki not helpful" appears near the bottom.

Shog9

6:22 PM

@PopularDemand It's an image I stole from this room (Neal posted it, I believe). Google "infinite motivational".

Popular Demand

Dang, you didn't even wait for an @-notification to drop what you were doing and come here.

mootinator

There's no tornado warning today. That makes me highly suspicious.

I feel terrible for stealing the US midwest's rain this year. I really don't need to have my driveway being covered in algae.

jadarnel27

6:40 PM

@PopularDemand Hopefully the new review tools with help with this, especially on Meta. I just used all my close votes for the first time.

2

Johan Lundberg

6:55 PM

Hi all

I just found this question.. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7612099/the-object-type-in-net-base-class-library
100% image

jadarnel27

Howdy.

Hahaha

Johan Lundberg

I would try to close it or something but not sure

jadarnel27

It seems like a very convoluted attempt to keep people from editing his question's content. I guess.

Johan Lundberg

huh...

Popular Demand

There is a long revision history there. That's bizarre. I want to rollback, but I suspect the OP will just rollback my rollback.

jadarnel27

7:00 PM

@PopularDemand Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking.

mootinator

I want to add that (a very convoluted attempt to keep people from editing his question's content.) as a caption, but it won't let me D:

Johan Lundberg

@PopularDemand, haha.

jadarnel27

Snoop Shoggy Shog took care of it.

Popular Demand

Eh. It got Shogged while I was working on it. Moving on.

@JohanLundberg How did you find that? Is there a query or search we can use to find any others like it?

jadarnel27

I had upvoted that answer at some point, though I don't think the questions had been jacked up at that time.

I imagine finding posts like that wouldn't be terribly difficult on Data Explorer. Hmmm.

Johan Lundberg

7:07 PM

@PopularDemand just a stumble

jadarnel27

7:47 PM

@PopularDemand This is even better:

1

Q: Looking for a buffer switcher plugin for vim that I saw in a screenshot in the internet

vim buffer vim-plugin

Popular Demand

Why is today's Tavern theme "Reasons to feel depressed about the state of Stack Exchange"?

@jadarnel27 I fixed that.

jadarnel27

@PopularDemand Well done!

mootinator

BEER!

tries in vain to change the subject.

The kerning on that photoshop is terrible

jadarnel27

8:09 PM

I have never been as self-conscious about my handwriting as when I was inking in the caption for this comic.

WHERE Replace(Body, CHAR(10), '') LIKE '<p><img src="%" alt="%"></p>' - That where clause catches all that posts consist of only an image. Unfortunately, it also catches posts that begin and end with an image =/

jadarnel27

8:44 PM

BROWN

Flexo

9:59 PM

Of those unfriendly comments a lot seem to be an OP replying to a closure or criticism of a question

mootinator

Lizzie Borden took an ax.

jadarnel27

10:27 PM

Yayz, I got a bounty on meta.

@mootinator Who's Lizzie Borden?

mootinator

Lizzie Borden

Lizzie Andrew Borden (July 19, 1860 – June 1, 1927) was a woman in New England who was tried for killing her father and stepmother with an axe on August 4, 1892, in Fall River, Massachusetts. The murders, subsequent trial, and ensuing trial by media became a cause célèbre. Although Lizzie Borden was acquitted, no one else was ever arrested or tried and she has remained a notorious figure in American folklore. Dispute over the identity of the killer or killers continues to this day. Background Borden's father, Andrew Jackson Borden, had married Sarah Anthony Morse in 1845; their children...

jadarnel27

Oh. So you should have said "Lizzie Borden allegedly took an ax." Gosh mootinator. You're so not politically correct.

mootinator

> ...And her parents had a bad time.

I'm just bad at quoting things.

jadarnel27

Haha, indeed!

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