Tavern on the Meta

M.A.R.

3:51 AM

@SPArcheon-onstrike you're so hung up on what people are implying you miss what they're saying

Which is a more snarky ass way of saying I wasn't implying anything.

Shadow Wizard

7:26 AM

@M.A.R. but what are you implying by this?

:-D

SPArcheon - on strike

7:54 AM

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact would you be fine with an unsettling anime waifu that will probably go "I am sorry Andreas. I'm afraid I can't do that" on you at the worst time instead?

The new Gatebox at CES 2020

►

you could still buy that

Andreas moved to Codidact

8:08 AM

@SPArcheon-onstrike Already had real intelligence do that, so yes. :)

@SPArcheon-onstrike Maybe I'll one day come in one of those boxes.

SPArcheon - on strike

8:21 AM

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact Pretty sure no one would buy that :P

Andreas moved to Codidact

8:35 AM

@SPArcheon-onstrike Whaaaaaaat???

SPArcheon - on strike

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact I mean, I can see a small advantage over a real Andreas in the fact that... you could turn the volume down on a bot....

Shadow Wizard

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact how will you do that?

Andreas moved to Codidact

@SPArcheon-onstrike I ain’t noisy, only nosy.

@ShadowWizard Shrinkinator.

Shadow Wizard

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact but... miniature banana is less tasty, how did you solve that problem?

SPArcheon - on strike

oh, I may have stumbled upon another beehive.

Leaving the link here if someone is interested.

policies.stackoverflow.co/teams/data-processing-addendum

I will read this later.

Andreas moved to Codidact

8:49 AM

@ShadowWizard That’s premium content.

Shadow Wizard

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact how much it costs?

@SPArcheon-onstrike does it produce sweet honey, at least?

Andreas moved to Codidact

@ShadowWizard 500 EUR.

Shadow Wizard

@SPA pretty sure you meant "hornets nest"... ;)

Andreas moved to Codidact

@SPArcheon-onstrike Maybe if it was a link to Codidact, I’d be interested…

Shadow Wizard

> a situation fraught with difficulties or complications.
"the move has stirred up a hornets' nest of academic fear and loathing"

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact doesn't it also have policies?

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact ah, cheap!

Andreas moved to Codidact

8:54 AM

@ShadowWizard Not terribly long and complicated ones that exist purely to confuse you.

SPArcheon - on strike

-1

Q: Meaning of "Don't kick over the beehive"

I was wondering what does it mean to kick over a beehive. Sample: If you want to gather honey, don't kick over the beehive.

Shadow Wizard

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact ah, good.

@SPArcheon-onstrike it's more about "kick over" though and you didn't mention we should kick over that link.

;-)

Andreas moved to Codidact

Maybe light your flamethrower.

Shadow Wizard

I have thrower with a different ammo.

Andreas moved to Codidact

Kinky, throw some at the others in this room.

Shadow Wizard

8:57 AM

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact we can trade then, in exchange for your premium content. :D

Andreas moved to Codidact

@ShadowWizard Do you want banana split or hot banana?

SPArcheon - on strike

@ShadowWizard oh, you have plenty of beehives to kick.

> Ethics, Laws and Regulations (https://policies.stackoverflow.co/company/supplier-code-of-conduct/)
Stack expects all Suppliers to comply fully with the laws and regulations applicable to their activities in each jurisdiction in which they operate. The applicable areas of law include, but are not limited to, the following:

- Antitrust and fair competition;

and who we choose?

> Google loses massive antitrust case over its search dominance

Google ~~tracking~~ cinnamon & butterscotch cookies

Shadow Wizard

@SPArcheon-onstrike I don't have my kicking boots on me today, though. :(

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact ah, tough decision to make. Split sounds more yummy, I'll go for it.

Andreas moved to Codidact

Stop kicking beehives, bees are going extinct.

@ShadowWizard There’s no return after that.

Shadow Wizard

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact pretty sure it's our fault. Or the cows who release too much gas to the atmosphere.

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact fine by me. ;)

Andreas moved to Codidact

9:09 AM

@ShadowWizard The cows are your fault, too. No more burgers.

@ShadowWizard It’s a radical experience.

Shadow Wizard

10:05 AM

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact but there's no gas in the burgers.

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact I'm a free radical so it's fine.

Andreas moved to Codidact

10:30 AM

@ShadowWizard I think even this may be fun beyond your definition of fun.

@ShadowWizard There's gas on the other end.

Shadow Wizard

10:54 AM

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact can't know until I try.

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact but I'm not a cow.

Andreas moved to Codidact

11:12 AM

@ShadowWizard What's wrong with being a cow?

@ShadowWizard Your imagination has failed you.

Journeyman Geek

11:25 AM

→ 18 messages moved to Chimney

@ShadowWizard this is exactly what a cow pretending not to be a cow would say

Shadow Wizard

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact wrong colors

No yellow.

@JourneymanGeek of course! You're too smart. :D

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact or the other way around!

Andreas moved to Codidact

@ShadowWizard Dirty cows are yellow.

Shadow Wizard

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact brown.

Andreas moved to Codidact

Yellow and black is brown.

Shadow Wizard

11:43 AM

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact black stays black.

See for yourself. ^

Andreas moved to Codidact

@ShadowWizard Tasty

Journeyman Geek

Andreas moved to Codidact

No slaughtering? :(

Journeyman Geek

bbc.com/news/world-asia-37640549

Andreas moved to Codidact

Not even milking?!

Journeyman Geek

11:46 AM

the cow die We were all very moo-ved by his fate

You wouldn't want to milk that cow

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek good! I don't like being milked, it tingles too much.

So the yellow color is actually a protection.

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact Cow-nana.

Journeyman Geek

12:08 PM

Banana milk cow :D

Andreas moved to Codidact

No more milking, I have a stomach ache.

Andreas moved to Codidact

12:38 PM

That's so aggressive, do it again.

Shadow Wizard

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact k ChatGPT crap, custom flagged

Happy?

Andreas moved to Codidact

mhm...

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard needs more drywall punching

SPArcheon - on strike

1:02 PM

@ShadowWizard I know it is summer and the high temperatures may produce mirages, but just you know this is the tavern, not the Den...

... did they release the full version of the data dump page?

Mithical

@SPArcheon-onstrike To a subset of users, it's a staged rollout

SPArcheon - on strike

....

Shadow Wizard

@SPArcheon-onstrike see the star wall.

@SPArcheon-onstrike it's all mixed up in the haze.

SPArcheon - on strike

@ShadowWizard I know, but yesterday I didn't had the button enabled.

So either the "test" lasted a few hours and now they rolled the change to prod, or they added more people afterward.

either way, would they take offense if I tried to see what happens if I force enable the download without checking the checkbox?

Shadow Wizard

@SPArcheon-onstrike star wall button?

SPArcheon - on strike

1:13 PM

....

Let's try again.

Yesterday when Philippe posted that message I checked my setting and I didn't had the data dump option enabled. Today I have

so, there are only three possible explanations.

- the test already concluded and I now see the data dump button because they released the update globally

- when Philippe posted his message the test wasn't live yet despite him claiming otherwise. I already was in the 2%, just at the time the test wasn't live

- they realized the 2% didn't touch the button at all so they increased the test population later

Journeyman Geek

or you're in a newer bucket

huh

Actually

@SPArcheon-onstrike are you on windows?

Shadow Wizard

@SPArcheon-onstrike ah, so you meant to ask if they released it for everyone.

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon-onstrike its the latter and in stages

SPArcheon - on strike

@JourneymanGeek why you ask?

Shadow Wizard

@SPArcheon-onstrike no way

Journeyman Geek

1:18 PM

@SPArcheon-onstrike Oh, I wanted to ask if you could try to download the meta.su file and see if it makes your antivirus freak out, especially if its windows defender :D

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek yeah, makes some sense.

@JourneymanGeek defender never blocked any file for me.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard ah so - its totally freaking out over the .7z, but thinks the files inside are clean

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek very odd....

I've downloaded plain .exe files without a blip from defender. And it's active. Windows itself block the .exe though.

Journeyman Geek

Well its interesting because its odd

Shadow Wizard

@Journeyman I have added virus to your question.

(wanted to say such sentence for a long while)

:-P

SPArcheon - on strike

1:29 PM

@JourneymanGeek ..I find more interesting the fact that the download looks like a simple FETCH to a specific url.

is visiting the page even necessary?

Shadow Wizard

@SPArcheon-onstrike as far as I remember they said it's being prepared "on the fly", so each user will have a different, unique, URL. If you can guess it, then yeah no need to visit any page.

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon-onstrike the link expires and is regenerated

Journeyman Geek

1:50 PM

One of the community goals is to get hashes on available dumps to check if they're individual/identical

M.A.R.

@ShadowWizard I'm implying I'm saying things that I'm implying

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R. beep boop: too complex, aborting request

SPArcheon - on strike

2:13 PM

@JourneymanGeek what you didn't realize yet is that the "warning" you got from Defender wasn't a false positive.

That is part of the new "annoying users disposal protocol".

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon-onstrike that crossed my mind :D

SPArcheon - on strike

Specially selected users get an infected dump instead of the regular one.

Journeyman Geek

Hence checking it on virus total and checking the individual files

SPArcheon - on strike

2:32 PM

@JourneymanGeek I was just checking if the actual code contains any logic to verify that you come from the right page and that you checked the evil checkbox.

Because if it doesn't check the checkbox then it means you don't have to check the checkbox to be checked to download the file and check it contents and if they check that you used the file for the checked use then you can surely check back that you didn't check the check in the first place when prompted for checking.

Journeyman Geek

the link button is greyed out unless you check the box :D

SPArcheon - on strike

> Said Banzen, “Fog makes an excellent curtain, but a poor wall.”

hopefully it is not just that.

...

nah... probably it is just that.

Journeyman Geek

I'm more and more convinced its basically that

SPArcheon - on strike

> the forced dev may complete the task, but the road taken may be the poorest one.

also...

Shadow Wizard

@SPArcheon-onstrike it's actually being done my music companies, which upload infected songs to pirated sites.

SPArcheon - on strike

2:42 PM

1 hour ago, by SPArcheon - on strike

either way, would they take offense if I tried to see what happens if I force enable the download without checking the checkbox?

Journeyman Geek

So, lets for a moment, forget the community exists, or why the dumps exist the way they should.

If you get the dumps without clicking on the tickbox, arguably its unauthorised access and its hacking

The problem is, of course, the existance of the dumps is mostly there as a insurance and without open access that use gets weaker

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek and might lead to account suspension, duh.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard or some local varient of the compuer misuse act

Shadow Wizard

They tie the data dump with account, hence it becomes a privilege. As such, if abused, it's no different (for SE) from breaking any other rule e.g. voting for yourself.

SPArcheon - on strike

@JourneymanGeek eeeh, depends. If I do that on purpose maybe... but one could use a browser that doesn't correctly implement html

Journeyman Geek

2:45 PM

@SPArcheon-onstrike On the other hand, you can't do the whole "its its on the internet, I can use it with fair use"

SPArcheon - on strike

@JourneymanGeek yeah... I think we have different things in mind.

Right now, I am not even sure this thing couldn't be made work for anon users.

Journeyman Geek

I don't think it would but in theory the bar to creating an account on SE is low

@SPArcheon-onstrike Well basically everyone is horrible :D

SPArcheon - on strike

In my book being horrible would be to coordinate so that every 3 months each user requests their personal dumb, and the requests are offsetted so that each day they get at least 1k data requests.

Journeyman Geek

Practically I don't think that'll happen

SPArcheon - on strike

And it starts.

War has officially begun apparently.

Journeyman Geek

2:56 PM

amtwo's post?

SPArcheon - on strike

yes, and he is going for termination.

SPArcheon - on strike

3:28 PM

That said, I may have a simpler way to resolve the issue.

Just tell them that SE supports Scaramouche. Datadump and CC will be the last of our problems then.

(trad, if you think we have issues, you saw nothing yet. I know far more deranged communities)

Journeyman Geek

Its not 'really' about the data dumps :D

Its very much about trust

SPArcheon - on strike

oh, I know.

And I also know that there are two views right now.

"Company should work to regain our trust" and "Company must burn"

Spevacus

Let's, maybe, not use quite so inflammatory language

Journeyman Geek

Or that what we've built is too important (to us?) to let it burn

SPArcheon - on strike

@Spevacus you think that is inflammatory and not just a pretty objective description of many users sentiment?

Spevacus

3:36 PM

Let's see how they respond to AMtwo's post. Hopefully it's in the near term, but given it has legal implications, that's unlikely.

SPArcheon - on strike

@Spevacus yeah... I don't expect a reply before September AT BEST.

It is HolidayMonth.

Journeyman Geek

Also, honestly, if you want to see things burn, ehh maybe suggest pyromania.se

I think in general people want SE to do better not collapse in a corporate manner

And to understand there's a cost - both to people and the org to the choices they've made

SPArcheon - on strike

@JourneymanGeek I think you underestimate the amount of users that would want to see SE fall just to take Prosus down in the fire.

again, don't just wait here... go around on twitter/reddit.

Journeyman Geek

I don't care about Prosus

SPArcheon - on strike

Journeyman Geek

3:40 PM

@SPArcheon-onstrike twitter is basically a superfund site. Reddit kinda is... reddit

SPArcheon - on strike

@JourneymanGeek too late, already a fan of the chibi arsonist ^

Journeyman Geek

So with the dumps - its less about the minituae and fine print of the CC licences

than well, there's somewhere that hosts it that's not SE, or some silly person with hard disk space to spare

SPArcheon - on strike

4:10 PM

@JourneymanGeek Yeah... but you add an issue.

Before, you had to trust SE to not tamper the file and add some free virus gift.

Now it is random Mr. Internet Guy

Journeyman Geek

See, I literally only want the dumps cause SE won't put them somewhere safe from them

SPArcheon - on strike

@JourneymanGeek Yes, my point is that I would feel safeish to download a file Journeyman put on the Archive.

I would not consider downloading a file [redacted] put on the Archive.

Journeyman Geek

Ah, I'm not. I feel like the 'best' option for me is 1) maintain checksums on a github repo 2) give access, ad hoc, on request if I know you

SPArcheon - on strike

Not after the "big email data leak prank"

Journeyman Geek

IA is semi reliable :D

not counting the whole accidentally nuking a bunch of accounts bit

SPArcheon - on strike

4:16 PM

@JourneymanGeek That dataleak prank

Journeyman Geek

ah

that was an honest mistake

also they killed off swag totally so no chance of that happening

SPArcheon - on strike

@JourneymanGeek I am not sure you got the message, you know.

What I said is that I would not trust a dump that has been stored somewhere by the same person who sent those mails...

Journeyman Geek

I mean, that's not the worst mistake an employee has made, and it seems unfair to conflate the two

SPArcheon - on strike

@JourneymanGeek are we reading the same messages?

Journeyman Geek

yup

SPArcheon - on strike

4:19 PM

6 mins ago, by SPArcheon - on strike

I would not consider downloading a file [redacted] put on the Archive.

1 min ago, by SPArcheon - on strike

What I said is that I would not trust a dump that has been stored somewhere by the same person who sent those mails...

Journeyman Geek

And I think that's deeply unfair to them in context

SPArcheon - on strike

@JourneymanGeek exactly, what part of this makes this about the SE employee who leaked the mails and not about the smart guy that used the mails for a "funny joke"?

Journeyman Geek

Ah, that wasn't clear

SPArcheon - on strike

Imho, that was clear quite :P

Journeyman Geek

also this is why checksums are good

Andreas moved to Codidact

8:20 PM

@JourneymanGeek Spyware to make sure you don’t use it for any purposes SE don’t like? :P

Mithical

9:54 PM

Is anyone with a mobile Apple device able to reproduce this chat bug in Safari, or was it exclusively an app artifact?

Andreas moved to Codidact

@Mithical Regularly have issues with parts of the page being covered, for instance the input box being stuck below the address bar, or a keyboard that never goes away.

Anyway, can't reproduce anything right now. It comes and goes.

Haven't noticed anything recently, though.

Journeyman Geek

11:37 PM

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact I literally am just going to get my dumps and bury them in my metaphorical backyard for later :D

Andreas moved to Codidact

@JourneymanGeek mhmhm, compost. I’ve heard you can grow new things in that.

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