Tavern on the Meta

Journeyman Geek

1:19 AM

→ 16 messages moved to Chimney

DialFrost

3:12 AM

@JourneymanGeek or maybe a post that peopel can answer under for all the minor posts is viable?

or too messy and a waste of time?

Journeyman Geek

yup

So, basically the most 'effective' bug fix reports involve stuff SE's working on 'now'

DialFrost

is there a post the ppl can answer under?

for minor bugs?

like a sandbox

Journeyman Geek

nope

So the problem with bug reports in a sense is - SE's really bad at managing them on meta these days

So we'd want a commitment to have someone follow these bug reports in some fashion and follow up

66

Q: What posts should be escalated to staff using [status-review], and how do I escalate them?

For context on how this process came to be, please see our initial commitment to responding to Meta and Mods, our guidelines for the testing period, and the results of the initial test and next steps. This post contains guidance to ensure moderators understand when to escalate issues that they ...

here we're using status tags to 'feed' into the formal ticketing system

so a sandboxy question will

1) not really get correct attention

2) have a significant number of obsolete bug reports as SE changes around the sites

here we have a formal commitment to follow up - not a "HEY LOOK! THEY FIXED IT" with no one having any clue when, who or why it was fixed

Meta Andrew T.

3:56 AM

@DialFrost there's sandbox currently with 220 answers, though it's usually to test something related to posts (on answer, not question)

but it won't be checked by staff since some of them are not bugs and only for, well, testing anything.

DialFrost

4:39 AM

@JourneymanGeek so a sandbox like that is not viable?

because this site is filled with minor bug reports

Journeyman Geek

IMO

not really in the current environment

DialFrost

oh dear

:(

is there anything that can be done @JourneymanGeek？

Luuklag

@DialFrost get some pills against OCD ;)

DialFrost

@Luuklag :/

@Luuklag did i do something :P

Luuklag

Rerporting small bugs sounds like OCD to me ;)

DialFrost

4:52 AM

heh

look at bad_coder then

Is asking someone's age here offensive lol

Luuklag

I wouldn't be offended, but I probably wouldn't tell you either, can't speak for others though

DialFrost

heh ok then

how bout round to nearest 10 XD

Luuklag

Ill tell you that I was born in the 1900's

DialFrost

@Luuklag what... (I expected you to be younger [no offense])

:P

Journeyman Geek

5:10 AM

@DialFrost tbh, I'd give anyone roughly the same advice

DialFrost

@JourneymanGeek ?

Journeyman Geek

fundamentally - especially with meta, its a little too easy to get 'overenthusiastic' and 'get into the minutae', especially if it starts feeling like your primary site

If meta's important, and you want to be effective, its really important to consider 'how best' to put in your time and effort

DialFrost

@JourneymanGeek um my bad, but what's your point again? I dont see where youre coming from

Journeyman Geek

Oh with reporting minor bugs

DialFrost

ah ic

so we shouldn't report minor bugs then?

Journeyman Geek

5:13 AM

well - it might not really get attention

DialFrost

Because I really think a sandbox for this would work, but if not then people will keeping finding and posting them no matter the rules

Journeyman Geek

I mean, if there was a significant amount of staff attention - like the early days, sure

DialFrost

but I'm not sure, Im no expert at community stuff :/

@JourneymanGeek staff attention?

Journeyman Geek

well people who can actually fix things routinely trawling meta ?

in the past quite a few SE hires were very active users of meta and the network as a whole

DialFrost

hmm

Journeyman Geek

5:14 AM

its less so now, to the point that they're acquiring the skills needed as they go along, and sometimes failing

DialFrost

oh dera I accidentally presed the mobile button on my laptop

how do I undo this?

Journeyman Geek

And yeah, effective meta usage is a skill to be acquired, and sometimes refreshed in an ongoing manner

@DialFrost burger menu -> full site

DialFrost

ah ok thanks!

@JourneymanGeek hmm, so essentially there's no need for reporting them I guess? Quite a few recent minor bug reports are downvoted

Journeyman Geek

@DialFrost hm, not really

unless it relates to something SE is working on now

DialFrost

oh

Journeyman Geek

5:23 AM

I mean, you could

but if you're getting downvotes, maybe its not a good idea

DialFrost

i get basiaclly half half

:/

So is the sandbox idea viable? Not viable, or viable but we wait and see

Journeyman Geek

not really viable

DialFrost

hmm ok

Journeyman Geek

You could in theory ask a question about such a sand box, and see

but that's risky

DialFrost

I always thought sandboxs were good :/ (I mean they can solve problems and keep things organised, but it seems that meta is quite different)

@JourneymanGeek yikes

Journeyman Geek

5:27 AM

Sandboxes are terrible

DialFrost

CCGC and wordbuilding use them

I view them as successful

Journeyman Geek

as are "feedback/questions in the answers" posts

DialFrost

ah

but for the 2 sites it worked out well!

Journeyman Geek

They're a sign that our tools are not working as designed, and we're driving in nails with wrenches

DialFrost

oh

:(

Luuklag

5:28 AM

@JourneymanGeek that usually works fine as long as your wrench isn't too small ;)

DialFrost

I have first hand experience on CCGC

Journeyman Geek

@Luuklag My dad used to use the family pestle to drive in nails for years.

DialFrost

the sandbox really helps

a lot

Journeyman Geek

I'm a firm believer in hammers to drive in nails

Sandboxes there are for a quick review before posting

Luuklag

@JourneymanGeek I probably couldn't even count the number of things I've used to drive nails in all those years

DialFrost

5:29 AM

Maybe because CCGC has very strict rules with questions, and decided to create a sandbox. Meta? Maybe not

Journeyman Geek

a sandbox-style post of minor bugs is pointless without curation

@Luuklag I have 4 hammers.

DialFrost

I've never driven in a nail b4 :P

Journeyman Geek

protip, hit the nail not your nails.

2

Luuklag

@JourneymanGeek I have 3 I think, and at my parents place we had about 10 or so, but you always find yourself without one

DialFrost

you can prob tell why i've never driven in a nail b4

Journeyman Geek

5:31 AM

I need a better metaphor

but I can't do farming metaphors like shog

Luuklag

@JourneymanGeek did you include your dupehammer btw?

Journeyman Geek

not really no

cause I don't really use my dupehammer, I use my mod-hammer

DialFrost

heh

we went from talking about sandbox to nails to hammers... interesting XD

@JourneymanGeek i havent been here for long, so I've never met shog b4

:(

Luuklag

@JourneymanGeek, the post you just nuked was a repost from SO

Journeyman Geek

not surprised

but I generally give people one chance to realise they dun goofed, then suspend them a week

cause most of these are probably reposts from SO

Shadow The Kid Wizard

6:19 AM

@JourneymanGeek yup

@DialFrost too bad, Shog is a legend. ;)

@DialFrost yw

@DialFrost only if they plan to overhaul the whole badges page, otherwise it's just not worth the time. Fixing description of one badge is instant. Of five is also still very quick. But of 80, and going over each one to see if it's correct, semantically? Long long hours, better spent on bigger bugs.

status-not-worth-fixing-because-it-is-too-minor

hehe

Would just make the condition worse....

Journeyman Geek

depends

Shadow The Kid Wizard

Patient will try to make it right

Ruining the pills in the process

(they must be kept in vacuum, no?)

Luuklag

@ShadowTheKidWizard usually they aren't vaccuumed

Journeyman Geek

the foil is protective tho right?

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@Luuklag oh. But the above are. ;)

Journeyman Geek

6:27 AM

keeps moisture out or something

Shadow The Kid Wizard

Interesting though, some pills I know are kept like that, others are kept like this:

Luuklag

@ShadowTheKidWizard aren't they just sealed, with an aluminium foil that easily breaks, I don't think they're under vacuum inside that packaging

perhaps under a controlled atmosphere

Shadow The Kid Wizard

hmm no idea

But even if it's not crucial, taking them out of the package would ruin the order and visibility. ;)

Journeyman Geek

6:48 AM

@JNat stackexchange.com/users/25841106/pratigya-s yet another for the backlog

DialFrost

Also

Wats with the new saving profile edits?

Looks new

Didn't see it yesterday:/

Is it an update or something?

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@DialFrost what do you mean? I checked the edit profile now, nothing new there.

DialFrost

Oh dear I cant send an image

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@DialFrost worst case send it to my email ;)

DialFrost

@ShadowTheKidWizard lol

It reads "save profile"

Shadow The Kid Wizard

7:02 AM

gmail allows up to 20mb in single message

DialFrost

Instead of the usual 2 options

Should I report?

It's definitely not a bug, seems like an update someone added somehow

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@DialFrost no.

I see both just fine.

DialFrost

Um it's different for me

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@DialFrost on what site? MSE?

Anyway we really need screenshot for a chance to know what's going on. Bug report without it would be closed as "needs more details".

DialFrost

@ShadowTheKidWizard all sites

Shadow The Kid Wizard

7:06 AM

Wild guess.... any chance you're suspended on one of your sites? @Dial

DialFrost

Nope

Shadow The Kid Wizard

When did you last edit profile, and where? @Dial

DialFrost

Bruh I cant paste a photo here

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@DialFrost I've already given you all the tips I can few days ago

DialFrost

Yup okey :)

Shadow The Kid Wizard

7:08 AM

Shadow Wizard tips for uploading image from a mobile device

Jul 17 at 6:36, 2 minutes total – 8 messages, 2 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 8 secs ago by Shadow The Kid Wizard

@DialFrost ^

DialFrost

I'll make a report and see first I guess

Shadow The Kid Wizard

> Bug report without it would be closed as "needs more details".

DialFrost

Without what?

Journeyman Geek

hm

Actually

@DialFrost there's two different ways I see it

might be the way you go to the page

mine has both buttons

I've seen the single button view when clearing out a spammer's profile

DialFrost

7:26 AM

I'm a spammer? Oh dear :/

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@DialFrost screenshot, but I see you were able to upload one.

Journeyman Geek

@DialFrost naw

I don't look at people's profiles unless I have a reason

DialFrost

@ShadowTheKidWizard I cant send in chat here tho

Ryan M

@Luuklag Amusingly, it is centered...by the box of the font, because it's the letter "x", not actually an image. But yeah, agreed...very much [status-whocares].

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@DialFrost yeah chat image upload is ancient, don't use it.

Ryan M

7:40 AM

@Spevacus I wish there were some way to prevent negatively voted but technically valid bug reports from being eaten by roomba.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

Upload on the site and just post the URL of the image here. @Dial

Ryan M

IMO the score is appropriate, but the bug report shouldn't be deleted just because it's so exceedingly low-priority that it shouldn't be fixed except as part of a rework of the page.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@RyanM it would be auto deleted

Ryan M

@ShadowTheKidWizard Yes that is what I meant by "eaten by roomba"

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@RyanM oh, where did you write it?

Ryan M

7:42 AM

@RyanM My message right before the one you replied to.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@RyanM oh it's sandwich between my messages so I missed it. :D

Ryan M

(if you can't see that without a refresh: are you by any chance using Firefox? I've been having websocket issues on FF only)

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@RyanM nah I have web socket bugs for long time but so far it affects only live refresh on MSE, not chat.

Ryan M

Yeah, it got a lot worse for me recently. Might be a Nightly issue. Need to dig a bit more but not sure how.

Technically it's an unsupported browser version and there's a good chance it's a browser bug, but also it's an upcoming version of a supported browser.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

Well I'm on Chrome latest stable, think web sockets just don't get much love in recent years on either side, so they slowly fall apart.

Ryan M

7:46 AM

Aren't websockets a very important part of interactive apps?

Works fine on stable Chrome for me as well

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@RyanM afaik those just use HTML5

Ryan M

Annoying because I prefer FF for chat due to its better implementation of pinned tabs.

Errr, HTML5 is a markup tech, nothing to do with server interaction.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@RyanM oh, so depends what interactive you meant. :)

Well it's still in use, sure, I just don't get the impression the browsers developers put much efforts into upgrading it.

Ryan M

Ah, yeah, I meant stuff like chat apps, live refresh, etc.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@RyanM FF emulator extension for Chrome

:P

!!/fire fox

SmokeDetector

7:53 AM

@ShadowTheKidWizard No such command 'fire'.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

:(

hiring fox instead

DialFrost

For some reason my posts get more views than normal

Journeyman Geek

\o/

chat effect?

hm

I ensmollened the images on @DialFrost's posts, and someone re-enbiggened them

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@JourneymanGeek don't think so, no links to the posts

@JourneymanGeek ensmo what?

lol

Journeyman Geek

Lol

Made smaller

DialFrost

8:07 AM

@JourneymanGeek prob not

Shadow The Kid Wizard

In the last report the original was too small actually

DialFrost

@JourneymanGeek lmao

How do you resize images tho

Shadow The Kid Wizard

Fun fact, "smoll" in Hebrew is used to insult left winged people.;)

(the word for "left" is שמאל which can be written as "small" but it's used with a typo on purpose to offend, it's hard to explain. @Mithical any help? ;))

@DialFrost well if the original is too small there's nothing to do, I'm afraid.

How did you take that screenshot?

ohhhh wait

Never mind, disregard, my mistake lol. Thought @Journeyman's edit was the original.

You resize by adding "l" or "m" to the image name in the URL.

@JourneymanGeek yes, you made it too small, it was hard to read the text. In such cases I just use raw HTML and set custom width or height.

O

M

G

@Dial guess what? It was already reported. :P

DialFrost

@ShadowTheKidWizard What was?

Oh

Shadow The Kid Wizard

3

Q: Update Profile - Why does it only show 1 button sometimes?

On the Edit Profile & Settings page, why does it only show the "Save Profile" button sometimes, while at other times, it shows 2 buttons? 2 buttons Image Source: Main SE profile does not get updated automatically when profile information is updated on another SE site 1 button Image Source: ...

support design profile-page

Oded is another legend you missed. ;)

DialFrost

8:19 AM

@ShadowTheKidWizard but I planned to report the design of the double buttob

It's literally right on top of each other

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@DialFrost so post a new bug report

DialFrost

Or can I just edit it?

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@DialFrost nope, better post new bug report, it's not related.

DialFrost

Oh

Ok tysm!

Shadow The Kid Wizard

Just mention how to reproduce, the one who want to reproduce needs an account without customization.

Journeyman Geek

8:21 AM

well if its already reported, and has a reason its a dupe?

Shadow The Kid Wizard

and as usual with your bug reports, be with a mobile device browser. :D

@JourneymanGeek it's not, the one above isn't about design, it's just asking why only one button.

DialFrost

@ShadowTheKidWizard reported:)

Is it just me or am I posting too many questions lol

Mithical

@ShadowTheKidWizard I mean, I think you got the gist across

Shadow The Kid Wizard

8:37 AM

@Mithical yay!

Journeyman Geek

it was a play on embiggen

but I think I am starting to hit the age where my memes/cultural references need explaining...

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@DialFrost I don't remember if the edit profile should be responsive or not. If not, the bug is indeed minor, as it should not really support mobile browser, but if the page is responsive, then it's "ordinary" bug, not minor.

@JourneymanGeek it's not you it's me :P

Journeyman Geek

Oh

I have a 20something at work

I had to explain badger badger badger badger mushroom SNAAAKEEE

Shadow The Kid Wizard

LOL

But some things never change, e.g. racism in the USA. ;(

(the girls were ignored because they have dark skin.)

From what I read, employee says "he didn't see them" but I don't believe him at all. More likely he's just racist.

Now have to lighten the air here, with...

!!/coffee

SmokeDetector

@ShadowTheKidWizard brews a cup of jQuery for @ShadowTheKidWizard

Shadow The Kid Wizard

8:48 AM

And external vendor...

!!/tea Spe

SmokeDetector

@ShadowTheKidWizard brews a cup of green tea for @Spe

DialFrost

9:48 AM

!!/tea Shadow

SmokeDetector

@DialFrost brews a cup of Darjeeling tea for @Shadow

Shadow The Kid Wizard

Darling Darjeeling

Lunch time!

JNat

10:12 AM

about your comment, @ShadowTheKidWizard — would you be able to assist with creating an answer kinda like this one so we can better track all the places where this issue is occurring?

trying to assist Shiyao with tracking all the places where this is an issue, but I don't have a lot of time to go over all those answers right now. Can look at them early next week, but thought I'd ask in case you feel inclined to help ;)

Journeyman Geek

@JNat no way to pin it tho

JNat

I can prompt the OP to accept it

Journeyman Geek

might be better to have a 'new' question keeping track of it, and a pinned answer

@JNat if OP is active, sure

JNat

last seen yesterday

Journeyman Geek

Finnnneeee :D

alright then, I'll stop being a pain in the donkey

also yay, appropriate use of CW

JNat

10:22 AM

0

A: ‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎It's possible to create empty content fields - particularly question titles and bodies - on sites

Summary of locations where this issue occurs, posted as answers Want to contribute? Great! But please read the notes at the bottom of this post first. Summary Status TODO TODO Notes Anybody is welcome to contribute to this post; it's a Community wiki after all. Sorting order: status-c...

I created it, so if folks wanna start filling it up, cool. If not, I'll do it next week.

Journeyman Geek

@JNat want me to clean up the 'test' blank posts?

JNat

if you wanna, that'd be neat, yeah. Was prolly gonna do that on Monday too

Journeyman Geek

(I have a night shift ._.)

I'll do that

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@JNat awesome, pretty sure others would at least start, I'll chime in when having some time. Thanks!

@JourneymanGeek there is a way for staff or dev to accept answers, it's used for long years in the "feature changes" faq.

JNat

^_^

Journeyman Geek

10:25 AM

@JNat I can probably (slowly) move over stuff

@ShadowTheKidWizard its... ugly

IIRC

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@JourneymanGeek having it pinned by accepting? Well, it works. ;)

JNat

@ShadowTheKidWizard technically, it's not "a way to accept answers" in the sense that it is not a feature

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheKidWizard needs database access or something like that

JNat

we have to reassign post ownership, accept, and reassign post ownership again

Journeyman Geek

its not the best practice

JNat

10:26 AM

if avoidable, it should be avoided

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@JNat well the final result is that answer is marked as accepted, and it's not done by the OP. ;)

Journeyman Geek

"This way leads to madness, and I don't mean the fun sort"

@ShadowTheKidWizard Just because you could, dosen't mean you should

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@JNat sounds like fun, for Shog. :D

JNat

@JourneymanGeek I don't think we ever touch the DB directly for stuff like this. I've never seen it done, at least

Journeyman Geek

then people get eaten by dinosaurs

JNat

10:27 AM

@JourneymanGeek last time I used that, the Meta crowd ate me alive xD

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@JourneymanGeek of course, but it's tempting. :)

Journeyman Geek

@JNat well - its the meta crowd and uh...

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@JNat hmm? Where?

Journeyman Geek

that period of time y'all could probably donate a million dollars to a kitten orphanage and they still would have done it?

JNat

@JourneymanGeek yes

Journeyman Geek

10:28 AM

Dosen't count

:D

JNat

@ShadowTheKidWizard a post where Juan posted a q&a, but then he forgot about self-accepts not pinning to the top, so we reassigned the question to me. Go through my profile if you wanna, I don't see a lot of benefit in linking to it now xD

Journeyman Geek

@JNat well uh

lemme think of a polite way to put it politely :D

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@JNat ohh, but was the protest because of the ownership reassignment, or the content of the Q&A?

Journeyman Geek

@JNat that might have happened with any CM in the circumstances

JNat

the reassignment

Shadow The Kid Wizard

10:31 AM

I mean, why should anyone care??

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheKidWizard You must be new to meta :D

JNat

though the content might have been a contributor too, in the sense that folks were already not happy and this was one more thing to voice displeasure about

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@JourneymanGeek hello! I'm Shadow and I'm new. Who will guide me?

:P

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheKidWizard Its meta

we literally have people complain about things being a pixel off.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@JourneymanGeek where people go crazy over periods. :D

@JourneymanGeek exactly! But it's nice, in a way.

Showing how much they care for the site. ;)

Journeyman Geek

10:32 AM

@JNat the funny thing is I don't remember what post

just the general charlie foxtrotery of everything during that period

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@JNat yes, that's more likely. Done on a neutral Q&A, doubt it would raise any protest.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheKidWizard lawful evil Q&A bad. Lawful good Q&A good...

unsure about chaotic Q&A

Shadow The Kid Wizard

I was Chaotic Good in D&D for most of the time.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheKidWizard well in this specific sort of situation - especially since we keep selected posts pinned, I'd expect CMs to plan a bit better in future

Shadow The Kid Wizard

Doing good things towards people, but don't care a lot about laws. :D

Journeyman Geek

10:35 AM

At the time tho, no good options ._.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@JourneymanGeek even the best plan can have some tiny error

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheKidWizard or things just don't go to plan lol

which is the general story of my life

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek I see you aren't unlucky enough to have coworkers that are into Electronic / Synth music (and even own that cacophony-producing device called Monotron...)

JNat

@ShadowTheKidWizard I mean, it might still be problematic if anyone noticed it — it is a tool we don't use frequently, for good reason. That post had a lot of eyes on it, though, so it was bound to be noticed and highlighted — and rightfully so, I would say.

SPArcheon

I have far worse memories than Badger Badger Badger...

Journeyman Geek

10:38 AM

@JNat If say it was an appreciation post for past employees, or some really good news that HAD to be pinned and people upvoted the *rap out of the post you wanted to pin by a staffer... meeeh

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@JNat I see. But think it's valid for canonical stuff like a big bug report with many sub-issues where each issue has its own answer, and needs a pinned answer to make it more organized.

Journeyman Geek

and I think you did use it later and very obviously said so

@ShadowTheKidWizard or just poke the OP to accept

like a civilised meta-critter

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@JourneymanGeek yeah, that would be ideal.

Journeyman Geek

Or ask a new question as an omnibus question, close the other as a dupe of this....

Literally every option is better :D

SPArcheon

11:01 AM

@JNat chat counts too?