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3:00 PM
@Catija Right - that that automatic part can't be disabled or ignored without breaking the whole system.
 
Dang there's some alarm in my workplace, no idea what it means. :/
 
sounds like mse was simply left out of the design
 
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard that is end of your workday. It is 5:00 o'clock?
 
@KevinB they never expected to actually have ordinary mods in MSE, I think.
@rene 6 (pm)
 
well, no, the automation of the election process is more recent
we've had mse mods for a few years now
 
3:02 PM
@KevinB two and half years.
> appointed 11/21/2018
 
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard TBH - there's 3 possible scenarios I was thinking of
One - we lose a mod temporarily or permanantly due to either good reasons, two - natural potential attrition, three we might have situations where mod workload spikes
 
hmm
Oh well, the More the Merrier!
Or... "Give them Diamonds, not Guns!"
:D
 
(I mean - I can think of a lot of situations where I'd be out of the loop for a week or more)
 
@KevinB nothing about that process related to MSE, though. We have no intentions of having elections here. I can get to the election builder here but the big question is what would happen when the election tried to start running.
 
@Catija easy: loads of errors all over the place. ;)
 
3:09 PM
well, fortunately you have stack overflow to go to to fix those errors :D
 
> We have no intentions of having elections here
that's effectively what i'm saying
 
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard there's a 'soft' criteria of someone being a mod somewhere else for one
 
That feel when disqualified :(
 
only in the most irritating way possible
 
Ah. Well. Thanks?
 
3:10 PM
@Spevacus there's worse reasons to be :D
 
True!
 
@JourneymanGeek rules me out then
 
@Mithical technically - if SE sorted out the reasons you quit, and you were inclined to, I don't think getting back your old diamond would be that hard
I'm not entirely sure why someone would want to be a meta mod tho :D
 
The reinstatement process is pretty lightweight and fast in the majority of cases.
 
@JourneymanGeek A lot of the problems have, at least from my perspective as a non-mod, significantly improved. Since a lot of the problems were only really visible with mod access it's hard to see without, y'know, reclaiming it. You can see where the issue is there ;)
 
3:23 PM
@Mithical catch22? :D
 
@JourneymanGeek Can it be worse than moderating the Discord server? :P
@JourneymanGeek Precisely.
 
@Mithical Well - Its just me, but I've had folks try to harass me a few times
 
On Discord or here?
 
+ when things go wrong, they go wrong
Here
 
Comment was kinda tongue-in-cheek. It's probably much more difficult than the Discord server (at least most of the time).
@JourneymanGeek On what grounds?
 
3:26 PM
IMO SE has taken significant steps towards the right direction and I think overall is moving towards a positive place - there are still issues remaining but there seems to be more communication with mods and more opportunities for mods to get a voice (granted, I only became a mod in September 2020, so I don't really know if the internals are changing or have just always been this way), and SE seems to be improving on that and focusing on its communities
(although there are very justified complaints about overprioritizing on SO/Teams and ignoring the network that doesn't give as much profit)
 
eh, to me it feels like the outward appearance has improved significantly, but a lot of the things the community overwhelmingly reacted negatively to happened and continued anyway.
 
Rob
Never leave The Tavern for as little as an hour, you'll miss a lot of great happenings!
 
@Mithical moderation decisions mostly
Or being a mod ๐Ÿ˜…
 
Sounds about par for the course, then ;)
 
@KevinB That's true. There are of course still things that have either not improved or not changed enough. The overall direction seems positive but of course imperfect.
 
3:30 PM
we didn't lose meta, but it's still completely cut out of the feedback loop, for example
aka only 1000 lucky people get to provide feedback
 
@KevinB well less completely than it could have been
 
(assuming when you get picked your gender/age/race slot isn't full)
 
And meta is feedback - it's just a lot of it
@hyper-neutrino it was careers before ๐Ÿ˜…
 
ah, right :p
 
@hyper-neutrino it's better but not as good as it was
 
3:32 PM
mhm. definitely
 
@KevinB Hmmm... not sure I quite agree with that. They tried that; they quickly realized that that wouldn't work. Meta does play a role, just not quite as large as the Days of Yoreโ„ข.
 
I think for me personally the next few cms they hire is important in seeing how things go
 
meta's role is coming up with survey questions
i wouldn't call that feedback
 
And if they are serious about hiring from the community
 
@KevinB can you explain that? I don't think that reflects things at all. The changes to review and the outdated answers work and new user onboarding are all going through review on meta and many of the things y'all have brought to our attention have been addressed or caused a change in direction for the project.
2
 
3:35 PM
QA work?
 
?
 
@KevinB There's questions about quite a lot of the stuff going on now
 
the outdated answers project for example. the first step was to generate a survey that we weren't allowed to participate in (unless you got chosen), followed by implementation where, again, we're not allowed to participate unless we get chosen, and then some time in the future we'll be given the result
 
and a lot of that has responses - and even as a mod .... 100+ comments are a lot to look through, lt alone respond
 
i didn't follow the review changes closely, unless the changes are removing the audit process and replacing it with something less irritating i'm not really interested
 
3:45 PM
... ok. But you're discounting the work we're doing and saying that we're not working with the community because we're either not doing it the way you want or we're not building the thing you want. Do you see how that's not particularly a helpful characterization? We're doing a ton of work and you're free to disagree with it but making it seem like we're doing nothing isn't very nice.
 
What i'm saying is I don't agree with the new definition of working with the community.
We can't see the feedback loop that apparently occurs between SO and the "mod council" for example
the feedback loops have all been shortened and made more precise, for better or worse
 
@KevinB there's nothing to see.
3
 
4:03 PM
@Rob what about sleep?
 
overrated ...
 
4:55 PM
@Catija sorry but this does not sound very good. It's either "there is no feedback loop", or "nothing we consider worthy for you, as mortal, to see". Nothing really fatal, but still, if there is some feedback going on, having it more public could be nice.
 
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard why add the qualifiers? There's literally nothing. None of the recent projects have gone through the council at all... for two reasons... the council isn't supposed to be for that stuff anyway (their focus is policy, not features or tooling) and also because the council did a lot of work to organize themselves and then it kinda fizzled out. We're working on it right now but I don't have anything to share at the moment.
 
Given whatโ€™s allegedly leaked from it in the past, I can understand wanting it confidential
 
5:12 PM
Well for what it's worth then... As a current pro-tem mod council member I can pretty much confirm everything Catija just said and that there's nothing hiding behind a 'confidential' label.
 
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard more of it's really hard to get a very large, self directed group of volunteers moving in one direction
 
There haven't been many major policy changes anyway recently.
 
@KevinB Also, I don't remember anything ever leaking from the moderator council. If you're remembering this, that wasn't the council but the mod team, different things.
 
hi
 
Hello
 
5:28 PM
@Tinkeringbell I have a question for Interpersonal SE but I can't go public with it. There's not option for anonymous. Do you know any solution?
 
@Vikas not really, no. If you really don't want it public, don't ask it.
 
๐Ÿ˜ฏ
 
Depends on the nature of it. Creating sockpuppet accounts on SE is allowed as long as you don't commit voter fraud or any abuse with it. You can create a question from an alt account (you don't even have to register it)
do keep in mind that you won't get reputation from it of course, and you have to be careful to not accidentally give away it's you
if it's really that sensitive, it's probably best not asking on a public Q&A site
 
@hyper-neutrino I heavily recommend against that, since it makes keeping track of the inevitable requests for clarification on IPS near impossible.
 
@Tinkeringbell good point. it is technically a possibility though... I think. I wouldn't really recommend it either. I'd just say exclude enough details to make it not that sensitive / not contain private info.
 
5:34 PM
@hyper-neutrino Which at that point risks leaving a question that's so generic it'll get closed for lacking details XD
 
True. Sounds like it's just best to not ask it :D
 
i've only seen maybe one or two cases of people doing that not resulting in the community easily figuring out who it is
 
what's sockpuppet account
 
@KevinB How would you know? By definition, if the community has not figured it out, you wouldn't know: you would just see a question and have no reason to think there's a different user behind it.
 
@Vikas You should know that, I believe I linked you a post on it before?
 
5:39 PM
it's easy to tell a sock is a sock when it says it's a sock
 
Sure. But very often people don't mention that, precisely because they don't want others to link the two accounts.
 
sure
 
So yes, if I post a question with a different account and say "I am actually active on SE, I am a moderator of one site and an ex mod of another two and have a guitar in my avatar but I am posting this anonymously" then you'll easily find out it's me :)
 
@Tinkeringbell I can't remember
 
The cases i'm recalling didn't actually m ention they were being anonymous either, with only one exception
the exception is the one that never really got tracked back to a source account
 
5:41 PM
I'm just making the point that you simply cannot know how often this happens.
 
i mean
 
People ask using secondary accounts all the time.
 
for a site as inactive as mso, it's pretty easy to tell
 
MSO is inactive!?
 
5:42 PM
yes
lol
 
What's MSO for you?
 
meta stack overflow
 
And you think that is inactive!?
 
@Tinkeringbell Oh this ๐Ÿคฃ I only read the text never paid attention to the word sockpuppet
 
You really need to hang out on non-SO sites!
 
5:43 PM
why?
they're not interesting
 
OK.
 
like, the topics i enjoy discussing have no place on SE where like-minded people go to for those kinds of discussions
for example, oxygen not included, sure, there's stacks here for gaming, but none compare to just joining the discord
 
I was a bit depressed to see the lack of activity for games I enjoy on Arqade.
 
@Spevacus it's never going to improve if you don't start it :P
Which games are that?
 
@Tinkeringbell Listen I'm thinkin' about it! I got the rep required to make tags, I've just gotta come up with questions that'd be worth it to put on there :P
 
5:47 PM
yeah out of the 7 games i play/tag-watch on arqade only minecraft is ever active
 
i enjoy politics, but... i wouldn't discuss that openly on a public stack
 
@KevinB that's because SE isn't for discussing..
Even if you wanted, you probably couldn't
 
eh
for some definitions of discussion
 
@Tinkeringbell It's a bit of a mix. WoW, League of Legends (which has some questions I've answered over there, but many of them are outdated. I've yet to look too deeply into how Arqade wants to handle outdated answers/questions.) Escape from Tarkov (little activity, interesting game), a wider variety of newer games that don't yet have tags... I've noticed that Arqade is cool with having as many game-tags as they want provided it has at least one decent question for it.
 
Basically what CR does with programming languages then.
 
5:53 PM
So, while I'll complain about how there isn't yet an existing interest in the stuff that I like there, it's mostly just musing. I know that I could probably try and get some sort of basis set there, even if nothing much comes of it.
 
Every language gets their own tag, even if there's only 1 question for it.
 
That form of exchange just doesn't interest me for gaming related topics... for the same reason asking anything about a programming language that is very accessible in the docs on SO is irritating, even if it technically hasn't been asked yet
 
@Spevacus Oh! I know a bit about how they handle outdated answers :D. I encountered one once, and the protocol was to offer a bounty and leave a comment on the existing answer to point out that it could be updated and earn a bounty for the effort :)
@KevinB For one thing, I like Arqade because it doesn't have 20 popups, an ad blocker blocker and any annoying ads. But for some games, there are excellent wikis/forums out there and then yeah, I'm less likely to ask on Arqade and just use a wiki/forum
 
like recently someone asked a wow question that they knew the answer to, and answered it, because they didn't like how wowhead presents information... it's pointless. the information is out there for anyone who wants it to easily find it, for arqade to be of any use at all on that topic it'd need to have a lot more than that one qa pair to become useful for that topic
i hate their ad situation as well, but arqade can't compete with their completeness/accuracy
 
Rob
6:09 PM
@EkadhSingh โ˜•โ˜•โ˜•
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Yeah we did :P
 
For some reason that wasn't in the star board, so I thought no one chatted anything about it
 
We were too busy celebrating diamonds to be concerned with stars.
 
Also, Glorfindel has been absent so it's weird to celebrate someone who seems to have disappeared. ๐Ÿคฃ
 
6:14 PM
@Catija It's extremely easy to single out the few instances where there was no response to feature suggestions, or take legitimate declines (discussed and team came to a consensus not to implement) as flat denials without consideration.
 
That... still doesn't mean that we're ignoring meta.
 
...meaning, it's easy to feel ignored when you're not.
 
Reading it, and 9 times out of 10 deciding to go your own way, isn't ignoring meta either
 
Some people are used to the prior model from the Jeff and post-Jeff days when everything would get a response, and want a return to that model, but don't realize that the scale has changed dramatically since then
 
it's more, i'd rather be able to participate in the things we are using to determine what we do going forward. I don't post enough answers on MSO to claim i'm being ignored
 
6:22 PM
In general, our focus is on making sure the platform works. Right now there's a lot of very basic things that don't work well and are potentially catastrophic for the future of the site. That's because we stopped focusing on the platform while we built things like Talent/Jobs. Now, 7 years later, there's a ton of stuff that needs to scale with SO volume or aging that... we have to address before we can work on more detail-focused fixes.
 
@Catija Someone should poke him. Have we poked him yet?
 
For that reason, we identify things that we need to fix. And... lots of people have asked for those fixes. Outdated answers has been a concern for at least 5 years. New user onboarding has been asked for since the second iteration of the stack exchange quality project... review was confusing and not responsive and not interesting to people to participate in... these are important things to address.
@Spevacus I assume he's working.
 
@Catija at 8:30PM? Poor Glorfindel :(
 
I don't know what time it is for y'all.
 
BBQ ...
 
6:29 PM
One thing that I don't really like about redesigns of SE features in general is that the team doesn't really go through prior meta posts about the thing in question and see that some things that are there were actually added in response to feature suggestions. I often see little things removed as they get deemed insignificant, but were actually added in response to a heavily-supported feature request that is now suddenly de-implemented.
 
๐Ÿป
 
As an example, take my now-just-completed feature request.
I was about to post an answer to the most recent post asking that the team look into prior meta posts, but I didn't know if the answer would be received well as it wasn't a proper feedback suggestion.
 
meh
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog you're making assumptions about what's happening without even asking. We often spend a lot of time searching out existing meta posts to consider and we generally don't make changes without discussion of some sort.
 
i imagine it's quite hard to find them anyway, given the state of the site search
 
6:33 PM
@KevinB Tag search works well for this purpose, and people here generally do a good job tagging or retagging
 
In fact, I'd go so far as to point out that many of the announcements we make about new projects link to prior meta discussions... if we're missing them... say something. It's not always possible to recognize things that are important or find things when there's a decade of stuff to dig through.
 
@Catija I completely understand that now. The analogy is that of remodeling a house: as the house has been unmaintained for a long time, a lot of maintenance needs to be done to its internals (its foundation, plumbing, electricity, etc.), while it looks to users that nothing is being done since there are no visible changes to the usable features. But nothing can be done to those before the internals are fixed.
The solution to that is more visibility. The remodelers should give the homeowner a view into what pipe work/wiring work/etc. was done that day, so they know what's remaining and when their usable features will get remodeled. SE's addressing that with their roadmaps.
 
@KevinB looking at the homepage, thereโ€™s very little discussion, and more about โ€œfor politcisRelatedThing what happens for xโ€ and this is generally consistent with the theme of the site (speaking from expierence), and opinions/discussion are shut down fast.
 
The nature of the site attracts troll posts, and some of them get shut down because they're made by known trolls
 
Iโ€™d say all troll posts on politics, as well as most opinionated ones get shut down because of the lower amount of question and the higher amount of high rep users.
 
6:47 PM
my main concern of that is, what is considered internals? we've been seeing a lot of cosmetic changes, such as messing with post notices and css related things, are both equally considered things that the community shouldn't care about? or are internals something else entirely that's happening behind the scenes that isn't at all visible, and these things we are seeing are things happening on the side of whatever internals is.
 
@Catija Almost bedtime ;)
 
@KevinB I think that looking at the election tooling might help? Have you followed that at all?
 
briefly
but that's a good example
 
Very little of what we're doing is purely behind the scenes. But there's elements that may impact some people more than others. The UI is completely redone and now responsive. That's what everyone sees. Along with being able to rank more than three people (which is a huge deal for elections with >2 seats).
But I now have buttons that do things y'all didn't realize were time consuming for us, such as creating the questionnaire collection posts, chat rooms, etc.
 
Right, if it's that kind of stuff that's labeled as "interals" I get it, that's basically my job
 
6:58 PM
Running an election used to take about 3-4 hours over the course of the three weeks. It's now closer to an hour.
And most of that time is reviewing questions from the questionnaire. Everything else is really fast and practically automated.
And that's just the default time, not the answering questions in chat or handling flags time.... which depends less on UI and more on whether it's a SFF election or not. ๐Ÿ˜‰
Even tiny things like making it possible to flag comments on nominations (and flag nominations themselves) are important to have but easy to miss.
Anyway, the point here is that even the stuff we're doing that's internal, we're still talking about publicly.
 
@Catija Ooh, what happened with the SFF election?
Or, well, what is happening ?
 
Hahaha. Every time they have an election, it's pretty dramatic. This current one is relatively tame.
 
unfortunately (or fortunately, because it means the site is generally in great shape?) the issues I have are more... people issues. things like, people contesting questions being duplicates when the only difference between question A and B is cosmetic, and then that question being brought to meta resulting in it being upvoted rather than properly dealt with.
 
Ah, lol
 
7:14 PM
@KevinB Cosmetics and duplicate questions can go a few different ways. There's the obvious cosmetic duplicate where maybe the only difference is the variables being used. Those generally seem pretty undisputed. Where I tend to find more confusion is in questions that are more specific subsets of a broader question.
 
or cases where the problem can be broken down into 2 or more different problems that have all been solved
 
My general feeling there is that, if you have to find your answer in a single sentence within a much longer answer that doesn't generally relate to your specific question... maybe there's room for both to exist as separate questions?
 
multi-dupe target editing is nice for that, but it feels... frowned upon almost
eh, iunno. depends on the specific case, but i find it hard to see how most of those cases will ever help another user
 
@KevinB I think the concern there may be whether someone understands how to use the two solutions in concert? So, to use a math problem... if you have a question like this: 4 x (3 + 6)... if you consider that a duplicate of two separate questions: 4 x 9 and 3 + 6 - what happens if you don't know to do the 3 + 6 first?
 
right
 
7:20 PM
@KevinB Finding a sentence inside a 10-paragraph answer is not always easy to do. That's why I'm not a huge fan of preferring huge canonical answers in some cases.
 
I'm just not a fan of leaving a question around, just because people might not have the knowledge to apply an answer to a different but same question to it.
in other words, i have no sympathy for people just looking for a copy-paste result.
there's an infinite number of ways fundamental questions that get asked daily can be unique, while still having the same ultimate answer if you know how to apply it
 
It's not always about copy paste, though. The focus has always been about specific, narrow questions. So preferring canonical answers seems like a departure from that focus. I don't think we should be answering the same exact question for each variable but I do think it's appropriate to make solutions easy to find. It's maybe easier to think about outside of SO (for me, anyway).
 
At what point do we transition from "heres your unique answer that will help only you" to "The answer over here explains how to resolve your problem"
I'd prefer people learn from their interactions here, gain the ability to see an existing solution and apply it to their situation. I juts don't know what pathway gets us there most reliably
 
@KevinB "messing with CSS" is a major overhaul of all electrical wiring within the house, to stick to the analogy. I think it is a long needed change to get things to be more maintainable and scale easier towards the future
 
Yea, i oversimplified quite a bit
 
7:29 PM
Say someone wrote a 20k character answer to a question about something broad... then someone asks a specific question that happens to be addressed in one paragraph of that 20k character answer. I'd argue that forcing someone to dig through 20k characters to find the one paragraph that mentions the answer to their specific question is not appropriate.
Particularly in cases where the question that bears that answer doesn't specifically relate to the other question, the answer just happened to mention the answer to the other question while being thorough.
 
it wasn't meant to belittle it
 
@Catija wow, your message had a see full text, to reveal nothing extra :)
 
chat things :D
 
Yeah. Minor chat bug. Happens regularly.
 
the case i always come back to (because it's familiar to me) is returning from an asynchronous callback in javascript
 
7:30 PM
But I totally agree on that, just questions and answers, no distractions. 18k non-relevant characters is surely a distraction!
 
it has a massive question, massive answer, multiple of them
but the purpose of both is to teach
 
the "see full message" cutting off and breaking links is super annoying but one just has to live with it
 
@Catija last seen 10 mins ago
 
each scenario that comes up related to that question is very unique, and the answers are too. but the underlying thing every single one of them covers is 100% the same
 
probably a [user]script or having the tab open in the background / AFK :p
 
7:32 PM
hiding in the shadows
 
users in that scenario need a better understanding of javascript, not just an answer to their unique situation, and i feel the dupe target provides that (and there's literally no pushback in the community against this scenario)
 
@KevinB sure. But I'd still say there's times it's being overused. My one SO question got made a duplicate of a similar canonical question that... didn't in any way explain the solution to my specific question. I definitely want people to do the work but ... I think there's a middle ground between general answers and helping people who have more specific questions they're trying to understand. Duplicate closures can feel like slamming a door in their face.
 
exactly
This is the sort of place I could see some kind of change, or additional feature, being needed... i just don't know what
Personally, i just leave a comment in these cases. I don't want to leave an answer, because it'll be upvoted and stop the auto-redirect.
 
Tim used to have this idea of answering as a duplicate. Meaning that someone could vote to close as a duplicate while quoting part of one of the answers that addressed the specific needs of the new question or, explaining a specific connection to the duplicate that the asker might not understand on sight.
 
@Catija that sounds neat, but probably has a 6-8 year timeline ;)
 
7:38 PM
It'd be a bit better than a comment and could reward people who went out of their way to actually identify duplicates and help users understand how they matched up.
Rewarding duplicate finders has also been a long-standing request.
 
an idea I floated for a new QA platform (which has the benefit of not existing yet and therefore being able to be anything) was being able to target a closure at an answer, and answers being able to have titles. effectively, instead of questions coming up when you search, answers do.
that exact solution won't work here ofc
 
Doesn't seem bad.
Also that idea Tim had seems really cool.
 
When i search for duplicates, i tend to use the site search or google
Questions rarely have the keywords i'm looking for because the people asking them aren't usually the most informed users in terms of what their problem is
 
@KevinB Well it could be an alt atribute for your answer. In that regard being able to include HTML anchors into your answer would also be a great benefit. In that way you can link easily to specific parts of a long answer. Which is ofcourse especially useful with FAQ posts
 
the duplicate search atm seems to just search questions
 
7:42 PM
@Spevacus I wonder how it would work though, especially the reward part... I can also see that somehow backfiring in a kind of FGITW kind of way, especially since closing can take as much as 5 votes and there's still only one name on an answer?
 
so if you search for "return from async" now days, you won't get anything useful from the dupe search popup
 
I think the concern id have with using an answer as a duplicate is whether it would exacerbate the issue of people thinking that having the same answer means the question was the same. The usual sort of example is "what are the primary colors on a zebra?" and "what are the primary colors on a penguin?" The answers to both are "black and white" but the questions are not the same.
 
Also, depends on the penguin. Some have yellow or orange bits too!
At least for an emperor penguin I'd include yellow
 
@Luuklag we'd talked about anchors now that we're using Common Mark (not that there's a CM spec for anchors). The difficulty is ensuring that the anchors are unique somehow.
 
i mean
 
7:44 PM
@Tinkeringbell thanks why I said "primary". ๐Ÿ˜‰
 
i don't think that would need to be enforced
the browser already has built-in way of handling non-unique anchors (just goes to the first one)
:p
user error is user error
 
@Catija that's why I clarified that for an emperor penguin, I think there's enough yellow to be included in the primary list :P
 
@KevinB sure. We can also make tt
Them non-unique by including post id
 
@Catija unique per page right?
 
Yeah. It just means question and all answers.
 
7:48 PM
Anyone else noticed that great sight of many of the active posts being Yaakov fixing things :)
 
He's on bug duty this week.
 
@Catija So start with them having a post-ID, and then be unique per post.
That would also get rid of any issues regarding merging etc.
@Catija He should be more often ;)
I don't know if it is because he tackles a lot of the smaller bugs, or that he is just making progress like a maniac
But I'm liking it either way
 
He sorta will be. If only because he was on sabbatical for two months so he wasn't doing anything for that time. I think they generally do one week per month?
(Per dev)
 
Yeah I know, and then once he came back things weren't "optimal" for him to work unfortunately
 
I had hoped SO Docs would have been a useful tool for dupes, allowing the creation of an "answer" that isn't directly tied to a question that applies broadly to a given common problem, but i feel like adding rep to docs the way they did ruined it
not every action needs to be encouraged with gamification
 
7:54 PM
Depends on the person.
 
like the dupe closure scenario, simply getting people on board with the overall goal is often enough to get people to change
eh, there are those who simply don't care about the goal and just want rep. IMO they can do more harm than good, but i have no solution that. gamfication do what it do
 
Just watching a video on facebook. It can't get more Dutch then this. A guy commuting to work by bike, leaving his house at 6:30 to do 57 km's and be on time to start his job at 9 am
 
user707129
@Catija How many people reached out by email saying they were interested in a MSE mod position?
 
@Luuklag Not too unusual. I had coworkers do similar stuff.
 
Yeah, you're Dutch too ;)
I have a coworker that comes by car for 2 hours
Which is increadibly un-dutch
But that was about the commute my Father in Law had when he was stationed in Florida
where the base was just on the other side of town
 
8:06 PM
Yep... Though two hours by public transport is incredibly Dutch again :P
 
@Tinkeringbell only if your taking first class
 
@Luuklag town being about the same size as this country? ;)
@Luuklag you have to, if you want to survive for more than 15 minutes!
 
HE LIVES
 
> You'll read my opinions about Dutch specialties and traditions soon enough :)
can't wait
 
8:11 PM
I want to whack Martijn over his usage of the word bami ballen... It's bami schijf and bitterbal! The shape is literally the only way to make sure you grab the right ones (bitterballen) if they're mixed XD
 
@Tinkeringbell it was 30 miles, but traffic was horrible
@Tinkeringbell Well I've got a surprise for you then xD
 
and i complain over my 15min commute
that's 30 min a day i could be doin somethin useful
 
@Luuklag I'll just take the chicken nuggets and frikandelletjes then, if I ever come over :P
 
2 and a half hours a week
 
Was one of the things rene asked about the sprinkles on toast thing?
 
8:18 PM
@KevinB Keeping your job isn't useful? :p
 
i mean
 
@Catija Nope, that Hagelslag
 
if i could get the hours back and still do the job
 
@Catija no, that's hagelslag :D
 
@Xnero I don't really want to say.
 
8:18 PM
(i could, if allowed)
 
There never was like any official opening posted for MSE mods right?
Not that I think that would be usefull
 
No. I announced it in the TL and gave people a week to respond.
 
@Luuklag Existing mods were asked to reach out, like the post says :)
@Catija did your laptop finally finish updating or are you also incredibly fast on mobile?
 
I specifically wanted to avoid people being nominated or it feeling anything like an election. Any sort of post, even on the mod team, would have felt too much like a competition.
 
@KevinB I definitely understand that feeling :)
 
8:21 PM
@Tinkeringbell still on my phone.
 
@Catija Ugh, I have to step up then :P switch to one word answers ;)
 
I definitely think we found the right person.
 
Hahahaha. Two thumb typing!!! And lots of auto complete.
 
when typing with two hands, which hand to you press the spacebar with
 
@Catija That's what I'm trying too but I'm failing horribly!
 
8:24 PM
@KevinB right, always. I use my left pinkie for shift almost always. My left thumb does nothing on a full keyboard.
 
@KevinB both thumbs..
 
@KevinB I use both, depending on what key I last stroke
 
@Catija Shift keys are pressed with the 'opposite' hand of whatever letter I'm typing... After all that's how the typing course said it should be and I never unlearned it
 
i find i'm very inconsistent with the shift key
 
That's what I was taught, too... but it didn't stick.
 
8:27 PM
if i can use the right shift key comfortably for a given combo, i will, even if both keys are on the right hand
 
@Tinkeringbell Same here. First time I touched a computer was on my typing course
I stil did my homework on an electrical typewriter
 
i sortof... picked up typing on my own. didn't have a class for it till my senior year
was hanging out in IRC and writing IRC scripts at 13
 
@Luuklag well it wasn't my first time on a computer, but it definitely was the first time I was allowed to use one daily, for practice :D
 
I think I was 10 when I took the course. So just after Y2K
 
@Catija Did you type a lot before learning it? I have a theory that people that already had different habits sort of fall back to those after a course...
@Luuklag I was in 'groep 8', so 11. That would've been 2002
I had classmates doing their exercises on typewriters. I got to do mine on the computer, complete with putting colored stickers on the keyboard.... I never forget my dad's curses and grumbles when the poor man had to type something and had to look up each letter on a chart XD
 
Rob
8:33 PM
@Luuklag Not posting it missed some obscure choices, of people well qualified: AJ stackexchange.com/users/1780669/aj-henderson?tab=accounts BillLizard stackexchange.com/users/970/bill-the-lizard?tab=accounts KateGregory stackexchange.com/users/70017/kate-gregory?tab=accounts - etc., long list.
 
typing class we had was... really lame
they put cover over the keyboard, and then the entire class was doing "lessons" on a piece of software, then printing out the result
 
Mine came in the mail, a different set of exercises and a test each week... I was lame enough to be excited ๐Ÿ˜†
 
I finished it half way through the semester, then got accused of stealing work from the previous class
 
@Tinkeringbell I don't think so? But I never really took the course particularly seriously. My typing speed was never particularly fast until I started using online forums and chatting with friends... so I guess that I just... adjusted to improve speed over time.
 
@KevinB Bleh, that sucks.
 
8:35 PM
all because the clock on the teacher's computer, which was used for printing, had the wrong date
 
@Tinkeringbell I went to a hall, owned by the church, every week to take classes
 
i nearly got suspended
 
all struggeling to get those 250 chars/ min.
 
I think I'm also older... so I learned on actual typewriters, then again with Mavis Beacon.
 
Age is just a number, mine starts with a 3 ;)
 
8:36 PM
@KevinB Schools are stupid like that. I had this one teacher that was convinced I was cheating on the extra math work by just copying the answers in the back of the exercise book, just to go read after....
 
@Rob They're not currently mods, though. And AJ just stepped down on his sites.
 
It took my mom telling her that it was simple to prove by just watching me for an hour for her to let that go
 
what saved me is our neighbor happened to be the guy who replaced all of those computers the year before
 
@Luuklag mine does for another nine months. Hahaha
 
so it was literally impossible for me to have stolen work
 
8:37 PM
@Catija Mine does since 9 days ;)
 
@Luuklag Hah! Mine still starts with a two. Not for much longer, but still :P
 
i was allowed to just skip the class for the rest of the semester
 
@Luuklag happy belated birthday!
 
Thanks :)
 
Rob
I tried to do a bit of research before posting that list - but if being a mod somewhere was a requirement I guess they would all be out; despite having a good standing on Community Building.SE.
 
8:40 PM
@Rob She noted she posted it in the TL, so that was the hint you missed I guess ;)
 
Rob
No I didn't.
 

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