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01:00 - 18:0019:00 - 00:00

1:28 AM
@Luuklag A week belated, but congratulations on 20k!
Would you like to be included in the delv-pls pings for off-topic questions?
1 hour later…
2:40 AM
2 hours later…
5:39 AM
38 messages moved to Chimney
1 hour later…
6:48 AM
10 messages moved to Chimney
7:18 AM
@Feeds Yeah but... how many people have their code on Mars?
They seem to be including code that was simply used by NASA on the ground.
Can't let the facts get in the way of a feel good story ;)
I love how most of the starred messages to the right are just about room drama.
I really wanted to upvote the one that's +10 just because it has so many stars.
And because someone pretending to have a fun sploit when they don't is just uncool.
Well - someone actually did do that
Yeah the guy who made a screenshot of a shooped mod page or something?
no no
.... I'm slightly surpised you don't know this one
7:23 AM
The guy who actually got admin, then?
one moment, let me go find it
Yes, that one
You guys ever find out who it was?
I know what you do
and I don't work here
mostly what's said in public
@forestdistrustsStackExchange meh, I'm sure you're keeping up
My brain is having difficulty integrating those last three lines.
@forestdistrustsStackExchange as this goes, I entirely know what's been said publicly
No idea what's been said in public.
Just curious :P
Ah, that I can look up
7:26 AM
I remember the whole "didn't access personal information" yada yada.
Dean Ward on January 25, 2021
We take a detailed look at a hacking incident that gave a user unauthorized access to our code and data.
Yeah, sorry, that's about as good as we mods got too
It's quite well documented.
I'm surprised.
SE has good folks to a significant extent still
Not good enough.
Not perfect sure
Some less than most
7:32 AM
Looks like they still have no idea who it is. Shame on them.
They should hire some infosec experts.
I think they actually used to have a director level person for that
and I heard she was pretty good. Then uh 2019
> Bad secret hygiene—we had secrets sprinkled in source control, in plain text in build systems and available through settings screens in the application
This was the real issue.
@forestdistrustsStackExchange I think there was a personal blog about fixing it
gimme a sec, I need to jump through some mental loops to find it
7:35 AM
But here's the thing: When an attacker gets privileged access to code that is not normally exposed to untrusted input, they'll be able to gain kernelmode access quite quickly. They're then one option ROM away from persisting on the server and staying dormant for a year or two before going at it again.
And SE does not use hardware attestation. :P
I think that's how they do it now, but that's waaay over my head
Thing with these kinds of attacks is: They'll happen again. But you won't notice it.
Maybe, but its not really my problem, and the SRE folks here are decent so...
Its a bridge to cross when they come to it
Oh sure they're better than for most large sites with complex APIs
Probably because they have a gigantic talent base to draw off of.
But now that SE source code is available underground, it'll make attacks against the network a fair bit easier (because, oddly enough, SE doesn't open source their stuff and allow others to help them fix bugs for free).
@forestdistrustsStackExchange I think the claim is it isn't
7:39 AM
Nah it is. People's personal information isn't.
its waaaaaay over my head but parts of the SE platform are open sourced
Sure, but the most privileged parts are not.
(Sadly so much of it runs on Winblows that I'm no expert in it either way)
hm, reading fail on my part
I think nothing but the load balancers is linux
I need to up my Windows privesc skills. :(
@JourneymanGeek And I think the DB backend?
though I recall part of the reason they've been moving to the new .net versions is the option to go to linux
@forestdistrustsStackExchange MS SQL on windows
7:41 AM
@JourneymanGeek Maybe they're finally seeing the light.
@forestdistrustsStackExchange actually very practical reasons
MS licencing is a pain in the rear
Well, and Linux is just better for servers. :P
So for some 'hosted' options, between teams and a full in house enterprise instance it makes sense
SE could then just ship the containers k8s configgy stuff and... they're done
@forestdistrustsStackExchange I'd need to dig up a really old tweet to get the exact reasoning
You can run MS SQL on linux these days but I don't think its really production ready yet
I'd suspect that the much better performance is the main reason, they really like optimizing stuff
@MadScientist well - it also didn't exist 10 years ago
7:47 AM
Customizations for optimization are much easier on Linux since you can do whatever you want.
I meant the .NET Core performance itself, which is independent of the ability to run it on Linux
@MadScientist I think its very much a matter of there being no rush to
and I seem to remember that there's some devs who have been running the SE codebase on Mac dev boxen
Marc Gravell is playing with source generators, another reason to get to .NET 5 soon for them
Never even used .NET.
@forestdistrustsStackExchange both Jeff and Joel are former MS so at the time - it was probably the best option
(Jeff went over to ruby on rails for discord tho)
I think you've heard me say the best OS is the one you know how to use to the point of it being annoying
I don't remember you saying that.
good, then you will eventually get sick of me saying it
In my opinion, the closer an OS conforms to SUSv4, the better it is.
Except Mac OS. It is bad.
@forestdistrustsStackExchange hey no h8r's in here ;)
7:57 AM
Well I guess it is better than Windows for dev work.
I actually see a fair number of people at DEF CON use Mac OS, since you can run *nix tools on it.
Well you can run unix stuff on windows
WSL is the most recent attempt
You can use their translation layer but it only works for some basic programs.
WSL2 is a real VM
7:59 AM
Anything that requires true Linux behavior (NPTL threads, low-level system config syscalls...)
@MadScientist That certainly improves things, but it still can't do all that much.
WSL2 is wonderful <3
And it's getting better: apparently the latest WSL builds can do GUI apps
right now it doesn't do GUIs, but they're adding that
Why not just... use Linux? It's not like we're in the pre-Slackware days.
@RyanM waiting for that to hit mainline
In theory, I have a powerful enough spare box I can go to insider but waiting is fine
Right now I'm using WSL2 because I got a new monitor and couldn't get fractional scaling to work well on Linux. It's probably possible to get it to work, but it didn't when I tried it originally
8:05 AM
@forestdistrustsStackExchange because, as someone who uses two Linux machines for work... I like most of my stuff to work without randomly breaking
At the moment I kinda have 2 linux boxen, and 2 windows boxen and remote into them as needed
@RyanM You're either using the wrong distros, or administering it wrongly.
I literally never have stuff break on my unless I'm hacking my kernel or something big like libc.
It is Debian, administered by an in-house team of developers at a company with...quite a lot of Linux machines in its fleet. And yet, my desktop still randomly crashes coming out of suspend.
Never once had Linux crash coming out of suspend. I wonder what's wrong with yours.
Maybe I was just lucky to have well-supported hardware?
8:07 AM
Suspend is a lottery on Linux, on some hardware it works, on other it just doesn't reliably. I can't blame Linux too much for that, the fault lies mostly with the hardware
also can't get Bluetooth working on my laptop...it used to work, but now it doesn't. Though I haven't put a lot of effort into debugging that one.
@MadScientist Blame the firmware devs who wrote the ACPI tables, not the hardware.
Firmware devs are almost always wrong. I'm not sure if it's because they're just incompetent, or because the ACPIv6 specs are what, 4000 pages?
It's even worse if you want to use the IOMMU. DMAR tables are simply broken half the time.
I mean, how hard is it to correctly register IO ranges for DMA?
My understanding is that they just randomly push buttons until it works on Windows, and then declare it done
@forestdistrustsStackExchange I assume this is why Bluetooth never seems to quite work...the spec is enormous
8:11 AM
@RyanM I'm guessing the BT answer will have something to do with the wrong driver being loaded.
at least you can download it for free, though. not true of all specs.
All specs can be downloaded for free if you know where to look. :)
Although I lost my copy of PCI-SIG and can't find a new one :(
I mean...that's probably true, but it's nice that they intentionally give it away for free :-)
Is your BT integrated into your NIC?
uh, hm... looks like it.
Intel WiFi Link 8265
8:17 AM
Does lspci -k show a BT driver in use for it?
Its possible the bt driver is USB
Even on an M.2 card
Probably not if it's integrated with his NIC.
there's literally a USB breakout on 'laptop' m.2 wifi cards
BT won't work without it
shows up in lspsci -k as the network controller with iwlwifi as the driver
nothing that particularly looks like Bluetooth specifically
8:22 AM
No hardware, even without a module loaded?
wiki.debian.org/iwlwifi seems to imply iwlwifi deals with Bluetooth.
@RyanM Maybe you don't have firmware-iwlwifi installed.
It provides the binary blobs needed for Bluetooth.
It's worth noting that it can scan and see things, but pairing doesn't seem to work properly
That could be an issue with the config provided in the non-free blobs.
(But I'm not entirely sure. I never use BT)
thanks for the suggestions, I'll dig into this more in the future...need to head to sleep now
Bluetooth might as well be black magic
8:35 AM
Fun fact: BT 4.0 LE is LESS secure than most of BT 2.x :D
8:45 AM
I had bluetooth working on my Win10 machine. Then windows did update to improve stuff. Part of the improvement was bluetooth no longer working. Black magic it is.
9:35 AM
Wow, I surpassed Shog in yearly rep :)
9:48 AM
Well, you tend to keep your activity to what's essential once they kick you to the curb
@JourneymanGeek true, but seeing his massive amount of content he easily rakes in rep by doing nothing
Not really the same as actively posting
115Q's 3k+ A's
10:21 AM
@Luuklag Our top 3 (even combined) don't beat The Answer Man of Stack Overflow (not who you might think it is) who earns 2.5x+ the maximum daily reputation - every day:
@Luuklag nah, not enough active users to create permanent stream of votes for old content like SO has.
2 hours later…
11:59 AM
looks like someone's been socking
I hope that was not for the post I was just looking at?
User asked for it to be deleted and meh, its only rep
this was something else, and I don't really know what
Maybe you shouldn't allow your socks to vote on your post ;)
12:15 PM
rene, @Sha and myself all lost 20 rep this past week.
WUT! The horror! I want my rep back! It is stolen from me! Justice!
@rene yeah, entirely my fault
I lost my very precious 10 rep :'(
@JourneymanGeek don't worry, we'll discuss it at your next performance review and send you on a puppeteer training ...
@MetaAndrewT. I'm only just still on a positive rep: i.sstatic.net/7U78a.png ...
That's how they roll:
12:21 PM
@Rob wasn't that somewhere in Scotland or Ireland?
roll the cheese?
@rene you savage, go check on your notifications
If they had downvotes you you'd be ahead now, by upvoting if they get punished so do you.
@Rob Maybe thats also because well sql is sql
there are no dupes in sql
He'd find them!
Damn, he wrote 17 answers in the last 2 hours
12:27 PM
But he is unsung as F
One of the badges I can never get
He also has 26 gold tag badges
thats one big mjollnir
@Rob Rocket Nikita went poof, maybe it was his votes.
12:31 PM
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard Stalker :P
I lost 18 today, not 20. How you know? @Rob you checked?
@Tinkeringbell nah, just noticed in the General Chatroom many of the messages are from a deleted user.
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard Ahhh.
Wouldn't really bother to check it otherwise...
12:32 PM
Looks like I missed all the fun on the chat server while I was on holidays
Tink was having a blast I saw
@Luuklag no fun, believe me. lol
@Luuklag I am always having a blast! Could've done without this one though :P
Tink was mainly busy cleaning up and sending stuff to trash. :D
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard mehh I'm always in for a riot
If you want to know what happened just check trash room, lol
12:37 PM
@Rob I't won't be long untill he surpasses Jon, He scores about 150-200 rep more a day. That would only take him about 145K/ 175 = 829 days, as a very conservative estimate
145K / 250 would make it 580 days
still 2 years
more then I guesttimated
Jon doesn't make nearly as much.
If you look at quarter ranks, it was 22K difference in Q1, thats 6,6 Q's to make it up
so just over 1,5 year
@Rob he usually hits rep cap or a bit above daily
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard And, they's back.
^^ Not much above, and steadily declining since a year ago.
Tink, check out this nice "vernederlandscht" profile hahaha
ranaplomp028, Nederland, Netherlands
1 1
@Rob yeah theyr highdays are over it appears. Was more in '13 and '14. He probably grew up ;)
@Luuklag is that a dutch... phone scam?
12:46 PM
@JourneymanGeek yeah helpdesk scam
I assume
Wonder where they find a dodgy dutch speaking call center
not going to call it
Someone else is also a contender, they are rising rapidly but don't have nearly as much ATM.
I just spend an hour today with my ISP's helpdesk
12:57 PM
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard I got -30 an hour ago :(
@JourneymanGeek At least tell me you took a screenshot, so I can laugh as well :(
I wanted to know what was there!
@Luuklag awesome. Did they like it?
@JourneymanGeek Ah yeah, that's truly 'Vernederlandscht' as Luuklag put it ;)
What's that in the language of Frankenstein's monster? (both as it was written, and as it was put together with mismatched parts)?
1:19 PM
There are quite a few suspicious profiles that say it's Hanny Meens, and one that disputes that: leetcode.com/hannymeens321 notionpress.com/author/355094 groover.co/en/band/profile/0.hanny-meens counterevidence: bch.org.au/network/members/…
@rene wasn't too bad, my fiber optics was broken. But Tele2 had to call KPN to get it fixed, as they lease their network aparently. But then I should get an SMS with a phonenumber to call to schedule an appointment.
But I didn't get any text message, so I called again, and asked if they could ease me and my wifes mobile internet limit, so we can use our hotspots, and they got that sorted quickly, so now I enjoy a month of unlimited data.
And turned out that I didn't get a text since it appeard to be a problem at the KPN centre in our neighbourhood, to which a mechanic was already on route, and my internet was fixed in the meanwhile
@Luuklag Oh, nice.
1:40 PM
@rene yeah was really surprised that it went that easy
and in the end it was fixed within 4 or 5 hours
@Rob thanks for the heads up.
@Luuklag well, I must say that I have pretty lucky with my connection and up-time. But lasttime I had a problem the phoneline (and adsl) were out-of-order for two days).
I had to go to work to be able to game ...
Not that I am a gamer ...
@Luuklag three upvotes! I'm jealous. :D
@rene good one
@rene yeah same here, it is almost never down. I think this was the first time since I moved here 2,5 years ago or something
Steroid, left a comment in [MS].
1:53 PM
totally valid. can't see any reason why Smokey think some random name is "bad keyword".
Hopefully a bug.
Read what? It's just some random user name without meaning.
its the name of a steroid it appears
@Luuklag oh, OK.
1:54 PM
but that in itself isn't really a reason to spamflag
So Smokey check meaning...
@Luuklag totally true.
We'll just get tons of false positives and Smokey will become useless.
But makes sense the word is blacklisted
No reason to flag, yet; wait to see if it's edited to add link to site to purchase.
1:55 PM
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard Go do some analysis, and see what has a lot of False positives ;)
also, usually the flow should be 1) Spam posted, 2) Add bad key word to blocklist, not the other way around.
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard well could very well be that thats why the word is on the blocklist
and now someone (incidentally) made an account with a blacklisted name
They have perfectly sensible posts on SO
@Luuklag IMO it's mistake to just make huge list of words that might be bad, it will lead to too many false positives.
When you detect a bad word used to post spam, add to the list.
Kind of "innocent until proven guilty". ;)
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard Its useful to get someone to review
but not to flag no?
@JourneymanGeek dunno about flags, weight is 89 does it mean auto flags were raised? Score is 0 so I don't think so.
2:02 PM
No idea :D
I don't do smokey
People can set their own autoflag conditions, and typically posts don't get hit with flags unless they have >~140ish weight and at least 2 or 3 reasons.
Also called Tren or Fina, used for cattle, bad for people.
With regards to the discussion about "Trenbolone," it was added to the blacklist because of 23 true positives in the past.
So... Just bad luck with choosing a username in this case. We can add 'em to the whitelist so they aren't caught for having a weird username again tho ;D
Seems to have been a positive contributor in the past.
2:50 PM
@Luuklag Another factor is one has top tags that are declining in popularity, while the other's tags are holding steady:
Too bad it doesn't onebox that.
delete votes please, nonsense answer: meta.stackexchange.com/a/364031
calling that R/A
N/A standing for nonsense/answer
3:34 PM
@JourneymanGeek Can you please edit chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/8860709#8860709 to say 13 instead of 12? Catija just edited it to add one more site.
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog done
... oi
A page refresh is required to show it
Naw, I messed up editing
3:54 PM
Okay, it's getting a bit excessive now. @JourneymanGeek Clean up on aisles two and three?
Wise man once say, you smelt it you dealt it.
Man standing on toilet is high on pot
Wow that was fast
@EkadhSingh I'm a mod, and I'm concious
Why would it take any longer than it needed? :D
He is the one who barks.
3:58 PM
alas no more
Any updates on the CM thing yet @JourneymanGeek?
@EkadhSingh They updated the job listing to restrict to US and Uk timezones
I'm frankly worn out
Oh :(. Good luck next time.
Hopefully they'll hire someone from in the community but I'm doubtful
@EkadhSingh there isn't a next time
4:02 PM
@JourneymanGeek what do you mean there’s no next time? They have to hire CMs again sometime in the future, right?
Especially after this
I won't be applying
I hope they do, but at this point I think its pretty clear that as things are there's no place for me
Well at least you know the community supports you :)
I've reached out to a few people, and am waiting for a response but as things are I'm not ready to commit to more disappointment
And frankly SE hasn't had a good record in reverting decisions like this
So - here's hoping I'm wrong but yeah, I'm sitting out the next round, and probably all the ones after that.
@EkadhSingh the I kinda do all this for the community
these are spaces important to me
Sorry for the vent. Wee bit upset over all this
4:20 PM
Yeah, it's messy :( Wish you'd have known earlier that timezones were a thing for this round... on the other hand, I do hope that if there's another one that doesn't mention them, you at least poke some people to see if that's true :P
@Tinkeringbell I'll DM you on discord
I don't have discord :)
4:23 PM
4:24 PM
Using it just because don't have any choice, most people still use WhatsApp and will keep using forever while whining how bad it is.
What’s bad about WhatsApp?
@EkadhSingh what you write ends up as advertisement in sites you browse anywhere.
For one.
Personally I just hate Facebook for the way it behaves, don't really care that much for my own privacy.
It's a bully, in the worst possible way.
but meh... we have this chat which beats all social media chats!! And Smokey
!!/tea Ekadh
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard brews a cup of Americano for @Ekadh
No such thing in WhatsApp/Facebook ;)
4:28 PM
@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard brews a cup of jasmine tea for @Ekadh
pls no
4:36 PM
@Spevacus fake
Try again in 3 years
António > Kofi
4:52 PM
@JourneymanGeek if you're around, can you remove the ; at the end of the url in this post on SU: superuser.com/a/266260/172195 TylerH screwed up: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/52127879#52127879
@Spevacus Man standing on pot is high on toilet
5:18 PM
@JourneymanGeek citation needed
@M.A.R. considering its 1AM... what I need is more regular sleep cycles
Exactly what a non-sentient being would say
@rene Can you please confirm the SEDE parenthetical sentence in the first paragraph of my answer, or re-edit it if it's incorrect?
Noob, do you even 4 a.m.
too often
5:21 PM
OK then, do you even 6 a.m.
See also: do you even 8 a.m.
Miserable and proud ✊
There is no room for weakness
Nods off
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog yeah, that is right.
5:38 PM
@user400654 🚽
Anyone else lost a lot of rep to two removed users today?
Yeah a lot of us have.
Just one -10...
2 users. 48 rep
You are not a true retiree unless new serial voters don't even find your posts to vote on
5:40 PM
I lost 100
One user 20 rep here I think.
Whew, dang.
had to check to make sure it wasn't me that was removed
5:57 PM
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