@user400654 front of a building

lol

@Tinkeringbell True. Results from these: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consideration_of_future_consequences en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintended_consequences

@user400654 Reflective Smile - Moody Blues

@Rob Ooh, they made their pop up more obnoxious!

@Tinkeringbell What popup? :)

@DavidPostill The one begging for money. It's not really a popup, it used to be a banner...

Ah. I see that at work but not on my browser at home :)

I think different areas get a different campaign.

That too.

@Tinkeringbell They're asking, not begging. And if anyone has a right to ask for my money, it's Wikipedia!

I hadn't realized just how often I use it until I had to spend a working day in Turkey once, where they block it.

@Tinkeringbell It changes every so often. The obnoxity levels go up and down.

Have you really ever seen it obnoxious? I've only ever seen it very polite and subdued. Considering what an absolutely world-changing, incredible thing Wikipedia is and how completely it has changed the way we handle information, asking for a bit of cash every now and then to keep their non-profit afloat seems more than fair.

@terdon While the dictionary definition of beg does include the word ask for both definitions Google gives, I stick with beg. It's begging, as it's asking for charity.

@terdon They ask for cash half the time I go there. I'm surprised it still works.

And yeah, this one is definitely more obnoxious than the one they used to have

Given the size those notices get every so often (including now), yes, obnoxious.

@Tinkeringbell As you wish. But there is an important difference between "asking" and "begging". The latter has strong negative associations.

It is negative.

Wow. I admit I find this attitude surprising. WP is an incredible resource, run as a non-profit, and one you all benefit from pretty much every day.

@terdon Yeah. It's like once a year they run a thing asking for donations? I'd chip in if I was able.

I don't go there, not enough sourced articles and too many people thinking it's a source instead of a summary of sources.

The Dutch version is absolutely awful at times.

They had a good thing going, but screwed it up royally.

My spellchecker is malfunctioning so excuse any mistakes.

While I'm tempted to go around adding [citation-needed] to everything sometimes, the sourcing is generally fairly good on the English version.

@Mithical I know that temptation all too well, exactly why I don't go there :-)

I remember the internet before wikipedia. It was a much uglier place.

@terdon Which is kinda the point given that it's done using a more obnoxious banner ;)

I guess we have very different standards for obnoxious, or the one I see here in the UK is different. All I saw yesterday (gone today) was a small, polite and non-pushy banner.

@terdon Anything that avoids the adblocker is obnoxious, here.

I admit I find that a bit on the extreme side. If it were a for-profit, OK. But for a free resource run as a non-profit organization, I feel they get to ask me for money.

@YaakovEllis Just add a warning beforehand, like "slippery ground" or something like that

Hmph, that oddly reminds me of the prayer clap buttons. Hint, hint

@Magisch I've seen such an account, and devoted a substantial amount of time to its creation... And I hate to tell you this, but... I don't think it would help.

I had the same hope - that if I finally drag the truth out, I'll be able to separate fact from fiction, I'll know what to trust, I'll be able to move forward.

But... It was so, so, so much worse than I expected.

Look... To understand why things like this Mod Agreement that Cat announced are such a big deal, why Yaakov & Teresa posting on meta are such a big deal, why even the complete and abject failure to properly launch the reactions experiment is such a big deal...

@πάνταῥεῖ gone

...You gotta first understand just how completely and utterly lost the SO company was at the end of last year.

ohai @Shog9! :)

waves

@SonictheMaskedWerehog gone

@SonictheMaskedWerehog gone

That's the complete and utter depravity that reigned just seven months ago.

So... Yeah; they got a long, long way to go. But given where they started, I think they're making some real progress.

Now; I do agree that the current mod council is... Sorta adrift. Apologies to any members present, but it is - y'all need to step up a bit. BUT, even a "strong" mod council from an official PoV wouldn't be enough to prevent the sort of insanity that was the norm last year, because there was never a time when people - both inside and outside the company - weren't stepping up to call that out & try to reign it in... The problem was that nobody in charge was listening.

And THAT will be the determination of whether anything we've seen indicates a long-term trend or a brief moment of hope: whether or not the folks calling the shots listen to the people who build these sites. No amount of process, no legal document, no rules or promises or nice words... Will overcome that sort of deafness; they didn't then. OTOH, you can do good work with an awful lot of less-than-ideal processes if you're willing to listen...

@Shog9 I think this confirms my assessment that SE considered their curators as the primary problem.