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Rob
12:00 AM
😸
 
@AndrasDeak I really hope they account for those false positives - I would be shocked if it didn't skew the data
 
@LinkBerest I made that point on Yaakov's meta in an answer
 
It happens with dup flags too (not just dup hammers or close votes)
 
at least among dupe flaggers the ratio of false positives is smaller
 
ah, the second one? I just downvoted it (cause it still misses the point) and then avoided looking at it. Not sure as I dupe flag a lot though I don't know about others - I might be a bit of a weird case
 
12:06 AM
Yup. The bug was already reported on the announcement meta.
 
very well, not just to do beyond that (maybe mention it in the SOVCR room so people are aware - already saw the note in Python)
 
I didn't want to spam places where I don't frequent
 
Cody probably will
 
he left a comment on the original bug report meta...
 
nevermind - I found where someone was talking about it in the transcript (haven't been in that room in a while but its not unknown to me) and left a reply/link for them
was kinda shocking to see your note and then realized I had 14 "thanks" - esp. since I was using a userscript to disable it (make it not visible)
anyway, I'm out - night all
 
1:17 AM
Anyone here who was around this site back when the Meta Stack Overflow-Meta Stack Exchange split was actively happening? Would be nice if you answered this question.
 
Meh. The way I figured it, it was less that the subject was changed as MSO was moved to SO. Not quite the same. The examples in the question are sites that killed a topic with nowhere else to go.
 
1:58 AM
There are still similarities, however. For example, what was done to prior questions formerly on-topic, what is done when someone cites a past question as "evidence" that their off-topic question is allowed, etc.
 
Rob
2:36 AM
Is this question off-topic? --- Open ended "List Answer" type questions are off-topic: example 1: "... tend to result in list answers with no objective means to compare the quality of one answer with the others.". Example 2.
It seems a useful question but how does one draw the expertise from each site's meta and assemble the answerers on main Meta, or judge the quality of each answer; some partial duplicates of each other (assuming great participation in answering, without which the answers would be incomplete).
 
3:07 AM
quick sanity check... Is that page blank?
@Rob kinda sorta but i'd rather let it pass
 
Rob
It can be the definitive line in the sand between useful and not; it certainly will take a long time to accumulate enough answers. PS: Page not blank.
 
3:27 AM
Page super not blank.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:40 AM
@JourneymanGeek If potential spammers are blank, then yes
 
5:56 AM
Ah. Caching there is wierd then
I was bored and nuked all the spammers on that page
Didn't see any
 
6:18 AM
@JourneymanGeek To be clear, there still are quite a few spammers there
What I meant was, if the potential spammers constitute "blank", then yes, the page is blank, and it consists of potential spammers
 
6:31 AM
@SonictheMaskedWerehog 18 pages to go :D
 
7:20 AM
@SonictheMaskedWerehog nothing wrong with the spam comment flag but for some reason, decline was the only option I had
 
@JourneymanGeek It shows as helpful
 
Possibly cause the question was deleted or the user nuked...
Well then. There is no issue
 
7:35 AM
13 messages moved to Chimney
 
 
2 hours later…
9:27 AM
@user1271772 yup that was a pleasant surprise. ;)
@MetaAndrewT. until I forget, or you become unpingable... Also since I'll use mostly just @Meta it means you'll have to be away for only 48 hours in order to evade such pings. ;)
Fun fact: "met" in Hebrew means dead. O.o
 
Rob
10:15 AM
@JourneymanGeek I still see 17 pages worth of "Car Insurance Sales" type user names - perhaps Aibobot can assist you with writing a question on Meta; caching should have cashed them out by now.
 
Was 19 earlier
 
Rob
An improvement. πŸΈπŸ‘
About that question (and it's maintenance), between answers relying on links (one of which the author deleted) and answers in comments on the question it's become the Tragedy of the Commons:
 
 
2 hours later…
12:40 PM
5 messages moved to Chimney
 
1:10 PM
@Rob things sometimes work differently on meta, see eg What is a meta for? Not to mention that particular sites can override network-wide prohibition of list questions (one that springs to mind is MathOverflow but I think I saw this overridden at some other sites as well)
 
Rob
11 hours ago, by Rob
It seems a useful question but how does one draw the expertise from each site's meta and assemble the answerers on main Meta, or judge the quality of each answer; some partial duplicates of each other (assuming great participation in answering, without which the answers would be incomplete).
It's not so much a problem with the 'idea of the question', it's a question of the answers. For example: One person posts an answer about "Site X" and it gets 10 upvotes, three other people each post their own separate answers about "Site Y" which score 3-4 upvotes each; over the months to come another 30-40 answers come in - so which answer is best ?
 
sdc tea David
 
Rob
Eventually someone must sort through it all and Community-Wiki it, editing the question to include an index to each canonical answer (amongst the numerous deleted (pinked-out) answers that many of us can still see); and the eventual conversion to a Community Wiki may come with protests that it was unexpected. --- Years from now it could be a great resource.
 
2:12 PM
@Rob what you describe is main reason why list questions are prohibited on vast majority of non-meta sites. These are just hard-to-impossible to properly control and maintain. Some brave smaller sites however, believe that they can sufficiently control particular kinds of list questions so they weaken this prohibition. This especially applies to meta, which is not only small, but is also officially acknowledged as being not quite a normal Q&A site (see link in my previous message)
 
Rob
... and that refutes my position, how?
 
2:28 PM
@Rob it's a useful resource for OP now
 
3:02 PM
@Rob your position seems to be that we can reliable tell if specific MSE question (about examples of topic removals at different sites) is on-topic or not. Do I understand that correctly?
 
 
1 hour later…
@gnat Usually, when it's a smaller site, you're more likely to come and sit in your chair and not find anything to invest your SE time on and get the crazy idea to share your knowledge with the world and beyond.
And you go to great lengths and invest more time than folks often do on bigger sites writing this huge 30k post
Often also because you're not too busy shovelling crap
 
Rob
@gnat I think you need to look at your first reply, and my answer. --- It wasn't an hour previous that I was explaining how MSE is different to another user.
 
Rob
4:51 PM
@JourneymanGeek Yes, and I'm not VTCing.
In line with your comment that makes this question quite similar to this question, with
the answer being: discuss, vote, decide, and moderator enforces the Community's decision (which might be based on relatively few votes, and reprotested in future).
 
5:05 PM
16 messages moved to Chimney
 
@M.A.R. I think matters of scale are deciding factor here. Smaller sites often have a luxury to decide whether they can afford and are willing to maintain list questions or not. But when topics are of the kind that can attract too many answerers prohibition becomes the only option, "human interaction... doesn't blow up like a balloon".
Meta seems to have very high tolerance to list questions, I guess because it's small, fairly limited in scope, and its topics typically aren't of very wide interest. It's not a firm rule and I have seen list questions on meta that died a painful death but many were successful. For example my favorite MSE change log is a blatant list question and nobody complains. Because meta isn't strictly a question and answer site, the rules are somewhat fuzzy
 
Rob
^^ Yes. ^ and that has (essentially) one correct answer per day (entry); the only debate could be that the entry is incorrect or incomplete.
 
I guess the only difference is that unless it's CW, MSE does have rep.
Though, voting answers on Sandbox Formatting also doesn't make sense ;p
 
5:30 PM
@gnat That too. It's like a perfect culmination of a multitude of reasons
 
5:48 PM
21
Q: Ordering of answers for a question

mithunsatheeshWhen we access a question on Stack Overflow, the answers for the question are arranged in such a way that the accepted answer comes first. Then after the various answers are mixed up in the descending order of post time. Can we think of ordering them according to the votes they got so that user...

Hi, I saw that for this stackoverflow.com/questions/62721034/… my answer was below some answers but now is at the top
all have same votes and none is ticked
what does it imply?
the bounty is received by the oldest most voted answer to what I know
 
@VisheshMangla Refresh your page and the order might change.
If they're all the same score, order is random
 
oh so that's random.
thanks for the info @Tinkeringbell
 
You're welcome
 
Rob
6:35 PM
@MetaAndrewT. That can happen automatically, to that kind of question:
20
A: My answer got converted to Community Wiki

eruciformIt's because you edited your answer more than 8 times. According to the revision history, which is the link just above your name, at the bottom-right corner of your answer, you edited it 12 times. For more in-depth information about the Community Wiki feature, please see the FAQ. How does a p...

 
@Rob "one correct answer per day" - this probably underestimates of site audience and culture. Ask yourself, what stops answerers from adding same answer for the same day repeating what is already there, possibly slightly rephrased. You won't see this at MSE because over there blatant repetition tends to be ruthlessly voted down and deleted. But on SO things are different, I recall an MSO discussion that mentioned 5 (five!) essentially identical one-liner answers in some (non-list) question.
Allowing list questions would easily kill site like SO because they don't have power to moderate repetition and system lacks features to aid in that
 
Rob
@gnat You might want to read that again.
 
6:57 PM
@gnat Rob was referring to a specific case
 
Rob
"^^" is two up, "^" is one up. The second link in that set of two comments does have one answer for each day entered; nothing is misestimated.
 
^, ^^^^, ^ \times 23
 
This thing actually does replies pretty well, you two are just making things complicated!
 
@M.A.R. yes I think am referring to same case (of MSE change log). It looks unthinkable at MSE that somebody would dare to repeat / rephrase same entry but this is only because of overall culture at the site. At Stack Overflow, a list like that would be easily polluted with blatantly repetitive entries. And in 99,999% cases these wouldn't be cleaned up
 
Rob
7:17 PM
The Polish election ended with results within 1% for the two leading candidates.
 
for a second there I thought there was a site for Polish..
That's... a very small margin.
 
Rob
A 2% error margin is expected, so if it remains close after everything is counted there could be a legal challenge.
@Tinkeringbell There are tags for it, and this strangely relevant question on Math.SE that you might take a shine to:
2
Q: Are compact groups acting on Polish spaces essentially Polish?

tomaszSuppose $G$ is a compact Hausdorff (not necessarily Polish) group, acting continuously on a Polish (not necessarily compact) space $X$ (i.e. the map $G\times X\to X$ is continuous). Is it true that there is a compact Polish group $H$ acting on $X$ through which the action of $G$ factors? This i...

 
7:34 PM
No thanks. No Maths after 7PM or I'll get nightmares.
 
@Rob So are the candidates so good that people can't decide, or so bad?
I just keep thinking nail polish and stuff
 
@M.A.R. Speak for yourself. I think of shoe polish :) But then I don't (normally) wear nail polish ...
 
I can't remember the last time I polished shoes...
My nail polish just came off again though :/
The capital P helps in not confusing polish and Polish ;)
 
@DavidPostill Me neither. Really, I'm playing this mobile game and one of its ubiquitous items are polishes
It's some sort of odd physiological tick whenever I hear it
@Tinkeringbell I did it once when I was 16, then 14, then 7
I don't think it goes beyond that
*psychological
I've been driven crazy by physiology, and it's telling o.o
 
It used to be a thing my mom did every Saturday/Sunday morning... But I can't remember seeing her do it for the past few years either.

I think the last time I polished shoes I was 16/17 and I had a pair of really, really, crazily expensive leather boots.
But like with pets, I got bored of taking care of them.
 
7:40 PM
I've worn nail polish like twice (for fancy dress parties).
 
I've tried so, so many times. And somehow I keep trying, like the end result one day is going to change.
I can paint my nails, only to have it come off within a day.
 
Rob
@M.A.R. The answer is lengthy, the candidates have chosen issues that people feel strongly about; yet split the vote. Maybe an article that has no slant, no horse in the race, is this one: globalnews.ca/news/7118031/… - other news sources report mostly (but not exactly) similar differences.
 
I went as one of the Ugly Sisters to one party. Wig/make-up/nail polish/dress/stockings and HOBNAIL BOOTS :)
 
hobnail?
 
@Tinkeringbell Like steel toecap working mens boots
 
7:44 PM
Ah. Heavy shoes ;)
 
In footwear, a hobnail is a short nail with a thick head used to increase the durability of boot soles. == Uses == Hobnailed boots (in Scotland "tackety boots") are boots with hobnails (nails inserted into the soles of the boots), usually installed in a regular pattern, over the sole. They usually have an iron horseshoe-shaped insert, called a heel iron, to strengthen the heel, and an iron toe-piece. They may also have steel toecaps. The hobnails project below the sole and provide traction on soft or rocky ground and snow, but they tend to slide on smooth hard surfaces. They have been used since...
 
seems to be more for grip than to protect toes from crushing ;)
 
@Tinkeringbell I couldn't borrow any stilettos in my size - and probably wouldn't have been able to walk in them anyways :)
 
It's surprisingly easy...
But kills your feet.
 
Rob
@Tinkeringbell "New Polish Army Double Buckle Hobnailed Biker Boots":
 
7:46 PM
My poor head.
 
Rob
Polished Polish boots.
 
Polished with Polish Polish by a Polish Polisher Polish boots
 
Shouldn't like half of those P's be p's?
 
Only 2 of them
 
given that there's 6, 'like half' comes close enough XD
 
Rob
7:55 PM
Also available in running shoes for boom running πŸƒβ€β™‚οΈπŸ’¨, and log rolling (not shown). See: lumberjackworldchampionships.com
 
8:43 PM
@SmokeDetector k
 
L
 
is for Elephant :)
 
9:12 PM
Hmm, if I run the clean-up script that L doesn't make sense anymore ... that has to wait then ...
 
It was a bit obscure :)
 
 
1 hour later…
Rob
10:41 PM
@DavidPostill l'éléphant
 

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