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1:33 AM
Did the new post notices feature change the explanation for auto-deleted posts?
Now I see this:
But didn't it used to specify which algorithm deleted it (e.g. RemoveAbandonedQuestions) with a link to the Meta post about that particular algorithm?
1:57 AM
Looking for some advice; there are users who read everything I post and assume the worst possible intent. I've tried urging them to give me the benefit of the doubt or at least don't assume I'm evil, and to focus on the content of the post instead. They suggested I need to show them the appropriate respect and rephrased what I said in a demeaning way.

Naturally, I find them difficult to deal with because everything I say is assumed by them to be trolling, malicious, or fake politeness. If I try to have a productive discussion they deflect and say I'm not worth their time.
4:21 AM
2 hours later…
6:17 AM
A: New Post Notices are live network-wide

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehogbug status-deferred In the old notices, on questions that were deleted by the Roomba, the notice used to indicate the specific criterion under which the post was deleted (e.g. RemoveAbandonedQuestions, RemoveDeadQuestions, etc.) However, the new notice no longer indicates this; it's now back to...

You can see it in the timeline though
6:46 AM
@user1306322 250 for your own question and 500 for someone else (see 3rd from last paragraph, click link to go to 500 rep page).
6:57 AM
7:11 AM
40 messages moved to Chimney
@Magisch ola
7:31 AM
good night
7:58 AM
hmm.... Quora and PayPal update their Legal Terms in the same day... does PayPal own Quora?? Or just a coincidence?
No, it is February, 12th. International Legal Terms Update day. It is like April Fools but then for lawyers.
Also, the day when Gucci was born!
Radric Delantic Davis (born February 12, 1980), known professionally as Gucci Mane, is an American rapper. He helped pioneer the hip hop subgenre of trap music alongside fellow Atlanta-based rappers T.I. and Young Jeezy, particularly in the 2000s and 2010s. In 2005, Gucci Mane debuted with Trap House, followed by his second and third albums, Hard to Kill and Trap-A-Thon in 2006. His fourth album, Back to the Trap House, was released in 2007. Following a string of critically and commercially successful mixtape releases in 2009, Gucci Mane released his sixth studio album, The State vs. Radric Davis...
is he the one that makes the handbags?
8:13 AM
Is Pekka here?
8:49 AM
@MadScientist recently posted an answer on Meta asking for details about what ads are expected to do in relation to users privacy, mentioning the recent fingerprinting incident. He got an employee comment stating that:
> Anything related to our ads policy can be found in the links of the original post.
@SmokeDetector poof
I have skimmed thru the links, but I wasn't able to see any relevant passage. Do anyone happen to know what the line could be referring to?
@BlueSoul the links here:
Q: Privacy Policy Updates (Feb 2020)

David FullertonWe want to share with you that we have updated our Privacy Policy to keep up with the ever evolving data privacy laws and regulations concerning our global community of users and our sites. We also took the opportunity to review and remove language describing data usage that we currently do not ...

e.g. "We’ve restructured the privacy policy pages so that the language is clearer and more transparent"
8:59 AM
@Shadow9 Yep. I read them, but I don't really find anything that answer the question "are the ads expected to do fingerprinting". You know, the question that Mad asked.
By "original post" they meant the question. I think.
@BlueSoul there is some stuff about ads in there, didn't read in depth thoguh.
@BlueSoul I assume the links here are meant.
Something like SE will give them only what we agree to give.
Secret... lol
@rene that is not even the same post. And furthermore, for what my humble opinion matter, that post is fundamentally a "lie" - or a coverup if you prefer. A purposely crafted misinterpretation of the original concerns - as if someone actually said that the problem was that the ads was trying to play music. Yes, it accessed the audio API, but for other reasons and that was said from the start.
A: Stack Overflow is not trying to start audio

Zoe - account abandonedTL;DR: "The sca.js pixel as mentioned collects data required for ad verification. There is no individual user tracking happening as the browser signals they collect via their js does not collect any PII." is wrong, SO isn't starting audio but ads use it for fingerprinting, IAS ToS + GDPR invalida...

see Zoe excellent answer there.
9:14 AM
@BlueSoul I know it is not the same post. I assumed I was helping by offering a post that I knew had links that explained things about ads and their privacy policy. Linking you the same post would be uncouth of me ...
@BlueSoul I miss Zoe :(
@SmokeDetector k
@rene don't worry - I wasn't angry at you. I mean that the comment on Mad answer implies that the links in that question should provide relevant info. I read them and found nothing noteworthy - but I could have skipped something.
so, that is why I asked if anyone found something relevant in the privacy policies that were linked there.
SE never gave advertisers any info directly. That was never the case too.
But they also don't block them from collecting data in other ways, like that Audio trick.
And no, it can't possibly be covered in any policy.
the only ethical move is not using ad networks
at all, ever
only self-host ads, thats the only way you can control them
since almost nobody on the web' is doing that I have no qualms using adblock to deny sites I visit revenue
9:32 AM
Nov 15 '16 at 16:00, by Derpy
The day ADS will be legally required to be hosted by the hosting site instead that references to file on other servers I never asked to open and the hosting site will be legally required to ensure that they don't contain malvertising I will think about enabling them back. Not before.
9:53 AM
In the SO Python chatroom, we permit close-vote and delete-vote requests. We do not allow people to solicit upvotes or downvotes on questions or answers, but we don't have an explicit room rule prohibiting that. Should we have such a rule?
I figured we don't need one, since soliciting such votes seems to be discouraged across the network, and a chatroom engaging in that sort of thing could justifiably be accused of being a voting ring. But I can't find an explicit MSE Q&A about this topic, the closest I found was meta.stackexchange.com/q/160194/334566
Do we need one?
I'm not a fan of DV plz myself but that seems rare
Common sense.
I'm asking in here because I know a few MSE content experts frequent this room, as well as various mods, CMs, & ROs. :)
@Alex I think the timeline might still show the reason. But the link was probably to the roomba meta
cant say I've ever seen someone request downvotes before
usually if it's grating enough to make someone ask in chat about it it's delete / flag
9:57 AM
Essentially I don't think we need explicit rules when common sense works
@PM2Ring we should not :P
Dec 10 '14 at 19:16, by nicael
Plz downvote then
@JourneymanGeek yyyeah no
@PM2Ring and Yaakovs
@Shadow9 I joined the network in 2015 ;)
9:58 AM
Oh, hi, @AndrasDeak. As you might guess from my question, I've just been catching up on the transcripts...
(he's a special case ;))
That's how this all came up. "But where in the rules is it forbidden?" :|
@PM2Ring yeah, cbg ;)
@AndrasDeak and people who keep using that... are probably going to try to rules lawyer the rules
@Magisch so? You could read the whole transcript of the Tavern. ;)
@JourneymanGeek doesn't matter. I just need a beating stick with "against the rules" engraved on it.
9:59 AM
pulls out the hammer
This says "To whom it may concern"
you know though
@Shadow9 That answer isn't satisfactory when dealing with a persistent rules lawyer. I'd like a MSE or MSO post I can link to. Otherwise, we will need an explicit rule for the Python room.
@Magisch last time something like that was left unchecked the python room was yet again accused of being a voting mob
@AndrasDeak So? Charcoal and SOCVR are accused of that all the time
@pkb no, just don't engage
10:01 AM
also speaking of downvotes...
@Magisch well...they are
Just accountably, at least SOCVR
I opened a post today to answer it. Went to sleep
ended up in -20 0_0
@AndrasDeak @PM2Ring mods sometimes get accused of that too :D
being a voting ring
Its worth remembering though that before we got review queues, chat handled that function and well, it didn't end that badly
Let's just say it matters to me more when mods are doing the accusing
Oh, we try to have proof if we were to
Of course, sometimes when del-voting bad answers you also need to apply a downvote or two, too... But we try to avoid explicitly mentioning that. And as our cv-pls page makes clear cv-pls & delv-pls requests are just suggestions, and we expect people to use sound judgement and not just jump on the bandwagon, even if the request was posted by a high-rep member.
10:04 AM
@JourneymanGeek Just gossip of course
unpopular opinion: there's nothing wrong with using a chatroom as a review queue, and there's nothing wrong with downvoting things you review that you think are downvote worthy
so a chatroom can be a legitimate voting ring in my opinion
we don't get on people's cases when someone links a post to reddit and it gets a bunch of up or downvotes, either.
@Magisch if everyone was you or me that would work. Idiot users and lack of accountability means that doesn't work.
obviously everyone who votes, reviews or comments as part of a request is accountable for their votes
just like every user who signed up for it is accountable for their auto flags
10:19 AM
Except only CMs can hold the users accountable. Which means they aren't accountable.
@AndrasDeak can't mods acts on frivolous delvotes?
@JAD we aren't talking about delvotes
and you can edit/delete messages in chat for 2 minutes
didn't want to reping :)
@AndrasDeak Thats true, yeah. But I heard Yaakov was working on something with regards to voting abuse
@JAD Ah, I see. It's alright for me.
10:22 AM
or rather, was working on a proposal to work on something
Yeah...until we have more than a proposal for future work that might do something with the something: no up/downvote solicitation on my watch
I suppose the main issue is that up & down votes directly affect rep, so chat room voting rings coul easily be used to game the system. Sure, del-votes also affect rep, but I see that more as a way of turning back the clock on a mistake.
feel free to implement that in any chat room you are room owner of
@PM2Ring here is SOCVR stance on that topic.
@rene Thanks.
10:27 AM
@PM2Ring and delvoters have their name displayed. Makes all the difference.
@AndrasDeak Good point, which also applies to close-votes. Up & down votes don't have that transparency. I suppose we could discuss this issue in the next room meeting, or we could just add something like the SOCVR rule to our rules.
votes are a weird things that not even the company can wrap its mind around
we are supposed to vote content in a legitimate way, but at the same time we aren't entitled to expect votes to make any sense.
For years, the most well known meme around downvotes was a somehow mocking answer "You were downvoted because Tim lost his keys".
Votes are a kind of currency, but you aren't supposed to exchange them for actual cash. ;) But it wouldn't surprise me if there was an SO votes black market. It'd explain some mystery upvotes on bad answers...
10:37 AM
and while we kept saying "vote content, not users" and "vote right, not out of anger"... at the same time we told others "everyone is entitled to vote as they wish. If they want to downvote you because they don't like your avatar - they can"
@PM2Ring Heh. I'm certain this exists
Or at least, that some people treat votes like currency
so, basically.... you can vote at random, but you can't do targeted voting.
Which means that basically.... I think that if I were to built a service that everyday randomly upvotes/downvotes a random post on meta.... that is allowed?
well you can't target a specific user serially
technically it is allowed to downvote everything you look at
@Magisch I said random.
it would be as random as getting two consecutive tails on a coin.
@BlueSoul There was a user who made a userscript that used the daily vote allocation whenever you visited the main page. I think the user was sanctioned for it
10:41 AM
My work review was excellent. Only point of complaint was "Why the hell are you still here, you need a better job" :D
it can happen, but it is not deliberate.
Having a nice rep can look impressive, like a nice bank balance. And I guess having 20k rep on SO might look good on a dev's resume. OTOH, 200k probably looks like you waste too much time procrastinating on SO. :)
@Magisch on what premise?
I would never link my SE account on my resume
If it was because not respecting the api rate-limits.. fair. If it was because of randomness... they are kinda contradicting themselves:P
10:44 AM
@BlueSoul shog had a post about tat...
@BlueSoul look, I think the philosophy on voting is supposed to have people not misusing it
You can't vote random, that is still targeting ...
Mind you - I am aware that this is borderline devil advocate, but what I mean is that there hasn't ever been true clarity about what to do if it can be proved that someone is voting randomly.
the miscellaneous "people can vote how they want" is borne more out of a impossibility to police it rather then intent
@rene lame pun is lame :P. +1 , I would have done the same.
10:46 AM
@PM2Ring some users want to make our rules page as long as Encyclopedia Britannica. Just ignore them. Perhaps on the cv-pls page.
of course just downvoting or upvoting without looking at the post is of questionable morality. But the problem there is for 99.99% of cases, it's completly impossible to police, as nobody can look into another's head, and the edges are super subjective.
so the solution this far has been to acknowledge the reality that people can vote how they want. But if you announce you're gonna be misusing it and then actually do it, you may get sanctioned.
@Magisch exactly, and doing it through the API makes it very much policable
@BlueSoul you can even target if you do it right meta.stackoverflow.com/a/260843/5067311
But most people don't do it right
@AndrasDeak Geoffrey "Historia Regum Britanniae"? Read that, or to be more precise read the Arthur related chapters.
the no serial voting rule is that it's the only case of commonly-abuse voting that can be reliably pattern matched
10:54 AM
@AndrasDeak Yeah, the cv-pls page would be fine. We can continue this discussion back in the Python room, or maybe the MetaPython room.
@AndrasDeak isn't that the "serial upvotes of Skeet post is not a violation and just the natural state of things" clause? :?
11:30 AM
@Magisch why not?
@djsmiley2kTMW cause there's private stuff on here
I've talked about a lot of my private life on here that I would never allow employers to learn
Yup, father, etc.
That's why I stick to tech places. There's a ton of stuff on offsite chat I wouldn't talk about here or twitter
my balance is not having my real name linked to this profile
11:50 AM
Trivia time! What is this?
waffles are not animated ;)
A screensaver?
I know but I'd be cheating
a laptop to which a 4k monitor is being hooked up? (that's oddly specific, but my work macbook screen also flips out for a few seconds when I hook up the monitor)
11:58 AM
@Gimby nope. The screen is the laptop's screen.
Hint: it belongs (belonged?) to someone we all know...
@SmokeDetector k
@Shadow9 "Why is this SO ads trying to flicker the resolution on my monitor"?, next expected step after audio fingerprinting?
some software companies do not mess around
the one I just wrote a support ticket to has an autoreply that they reserve the right to charge for any ticket written about a problem not caused by them
and there's a pricing table affixed. If you're using a legacy product and write to them unnecessarily they'll charge you over a grand
@BlueSoul sure!
Let's just say that if SE ads would have really been the cause... they will be no more. ;)
@Magisch good way to make money
Thats one way to ensure you dont get frivolous tickets
12:13 PM
that sounds kinda hard to enforce tbh
@JAD surely it's combined with the proper paperwork and the company who is their client signed everything, somewhere.
it's a part of the contract you have to sign up to use their services
So if the company refuse to pay for the false ticket, it will be taken to court.
the service itself is very fairly priced and this is only the second time I have to open a ticket in over 3 years
I don't assume we'll be charged for this one and we weren't for the last one
12:20 PM
"Cirrhosis of the River" :D
@It'sOver hmm? How is it related to dads?
dad joke. Itself a pun on dad + bad joke
As a dad, I still don't get it. :D
What happened to Smokey and/or auto spam flags? Such obvious spam used to be nuked in less than a minute. :(
There were two more earlier, nuked in 7-10 minutes. (!)
charcoal has suffered a volunteer crunch lately
12:29 PM
Training for the strike :P
@Shadow9 Running since 10:42:03 UTC (1 hour, 47 minutes, 57 seconds)
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Thank you.
@Magisch why this doesn't exactly surprise me?
12:49 PM
@BlueSoul volunteers are crunchy
@It'sOver like crackers?
Crackers are definitely crunchy.
@Gimby and full of holes too
1:07 PM
@It'sOver "Fishizzle"?
Is that just playing on "fish" and "sizzle"? I don't get it, if so.
== English == === Alternative forms === for shizzle, fo’ shizzle, fa shizzle === Etymology === Blend of for sure +‎ -izzle (rhyming ending). Popularized by rap artist Snoop Dogg; see -izzle for details. === Pronunciation === (AAVE) IPA(key): /fɔ ˈʃɪzl̩/ === Prepositional phrase === fo shizzle (slang, hip-hop) For sure; of course; right on 2001, Shawn Corey “Jay-Z” Carter, “Izzo (H.O.V.A.)”, The Blueprint, Roc-A-Fella and Island Def Jam H to the izz-O, V to the izz-A Fo’ shizzle my nizzle used to dribble down in VA 2002, Calvin Cordozar “Snoop Dogg” Broadus, Jr., “Beautiful”, Paid ...
Never heard of that at all, thanks!
it's old people slang at this point so no wonder
@user1306322 Yeah Snoop Dogg is pretty old.
1:16 PM
more like the pop culture references of the TV and radio era are a thing of the past
2010 memes are ancient history today
"2000 and late" is a dead meme too
what else is obsolete :p
who gets a boat these days?
Drug traffickers
@Gimby yeah. Well. I am old enough not to consider Snoop slang "old".
Good grief, are you all children in here?
Are you kidding me, I can't keep up anymore
Feb 5 at 17:29, by iBug is disappointed in SE
VHS was long before I was born :)
you tell me :p
yes, you are :)
@user1306322 are you ibug?
1:19 PM
no, you can look up the convo around that message
Ah, OK. Since you posted that message I thought you may have changed names or something.
nah I never change names it's not my MO
@user1306322 never say never
@M.A.R also said he'll never change
Like that great question on SU a while back where some kid was asking why the main HDD was the C: drive since there is no "A:".
Which makes perfect sense, of course, but made half the userbase feel really old :)
Q: What are the Windows A: and B: drives used for?

Demian KasierIn Windows you have a C-drive. Everything labeled beyond that is with the following letter. So your second drive is D, your DVD is E and if you put in a USB stick it becomes F and the following drive G. And so on and so forth. But then, what and where are A and B-drives?

fighting urge to post new gif
1:26 PM
Didn't you get blocked from SE for posting too many messages in a short amount of time with this?
so wishing this were on the other chat server right now...
@avazula Huh?
There's only 3 messages there.
@avazula you mean chat rate limit. "blocked from SE" sounds much more scary. ;)
And yeah, it's multi-line messages.
@terdon if I'm around you can always ping me to get rid of it
@Shadow9 Sorry, vocab issues :p I lose my temper my English when tired
@Shadow9 ooh, I missed that! That's way less funny then D:
@avazula lol so you need
!!/coffee ava
1:28 PM
@Shadow9 brews a cup of Latte for @ava
I love that thing
@Magisch brews a cup of chamomile tea for @Magisch
Fun fact: "zula" is a common slang word in Hebrew meaning "place to rest in"
But no milk for me, I drink it black and without sugar :p
@Shadow9 Haha. Don't look for a meaning in my username. Same goes for my tattoos. I have them because I like how it looks
1:30 PM
@avazula how many you have?
@Shadow9 in my defense, it seemed like Shog would be here for eternity
It's just two concatenated names I like
@Shadow9 3 for now. Arms and back.
@Shadow9 "only sith deal in absolutes"
@Shadow9 And a mad scientist in Captain America movies
@avazula how many more planned? ;)
@It'sOver really? Don't remember that name...
1:32 PM
@rene what do we do there
@It'sOver talk
@It'sOver eating close reasons
@Shadow9 Well, Zola, but use your imagination
@user1306322 JEDI worth much more. :P
@Shadow9 "Sha512 the encrypting wizard" when?
1:33 PM
@Magisch thanks, but no worries. It does me good to be just a normal user with no privileges every once in a while :)
@Magisch when I'll encrypt
@Shadow9 I don't know yet :D I have projects but I'm kinda limited by the fact I have to wait 4 months after each to be able to donate my blood again haha
@user1306322 No such command 'soup'.
I would like one soup, please
1:37 PM
sudo soup
pls soup
@avazula the tattoos are related to each other?
Fun Obscure Trivia: @Shadow9 never realized that, but "sudo" actually was part of a trigger for an easter egg / spell on the FOX 9000 wag bot.
I want a great and glorious cheese sandwich.
Question is do I want one enough go go buy cheese specifically for that.
(sliced cheddar, mozerlla, tomato of some sort)
@terdon next thing you gonna tell me some newborn asks why do we redirect localhost to and that everyone knows what all the addresses from point to, and that kids these days don't have memory to remember 2113929217 distinct IP addresses
1:42 PM
olives (ideally salt cured, but that's tricky)
I'm always stocked up on edam and camenbert. It's an absolute necessity.
@JourneymanGeek tomato is a cheese now??
@AndrasDeak need a little acid to cut the richness
and I do not skimp on the cheese
don't skimp on the gouda
1:44 PM
@JohnDvorak has to be cheddar, mature or vintage.
hmm, the only cheddar we get here is the single packaged slices that barely resemble cheese
they're a bit of a guilty pleasure
Especially guilty since I've lived in Gouda :P
I can get anything not particularly exotic here
except pizza oil
oil made of pressed pizzas?
no was this spiced stuff
Had whole chillies and a sprig of something and various spices
Literally the only other person who knows what the hell I am talking about is @djsmiley2kTMW
Are you summoning them for translation?
1:48 PM
No, litterally pizza oil...
oh, my....
I found a screen of my old bot user page.
Its oil FOR pizzas
not oil made of pizzas
1:49 PM
see if anyone notices what is weird there.
@djsmiley2kTMW .... it had other things
did I finally, find it
“olio di peperoncino piccante” (hot chilli oil)
/me adds it to the mandala effect list
@user1306322 Hardly. But yes, that there were people around old enough to use computers and ask on SU but young enough to have never even heard of floppies was a shock to me at the time. It shouldn't have been, it makes perfect sense, I just hadn't realized it.
1:49 PM
@BlueSoul *waves huge S threateningly*
@JourneymanGeek ¯\(°_o)/¯
But I think we're on the right track now.
@BlueSoul really??? lol... what spell it should give?
grabs a giant S in case that's what BlueSoul wants to point out
Yield: 1 cup of spicy olive oil
2 medium rosemary sprigs
1 cup olive oil, extra virgin
1 dry red chili
0.25 teaspoon chili flakes
0.5 teaspoon coriander seeds
0.5 teaspoon mustard seeds
0.5 teaspoon dry thyme
0.5 teaspoon dry oregano
0.5 teaspoon juniper berries
0.5 teaspoon whole black peppercorns
0.5 teaspoon dry marjoram
1:50 PM
@Jour @Yaa @manyOthers What happened to the display of your Avatar on the North American servers, lots of people are without an image. Here in chat your user name replaces your Avatar. PS: I recently turned on Tracking Protection in my browser, but I can still see a lot of Avatars that I'm guessing are from Asia and Europe.
@JohnDvorak @AndrasDeak you both see the "S", I see a badge that should not be there.
@Rob Gravatar is... whacky
@Rob what does tracking protection have to do with the country of origin of the user?
@djsmiley2kTMW that looks a lot like what I remember
What you do see fine are the avatars hosted on imgur. @Rob
1:51 PM
@Sha Thanks.
@BlueSoul ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@JourneymanGeek hmmm yus
SE should have ditched Gravatar long ago, but they insist to keep using it, so often times the avatars are broken to many users.
@BlueSoul Ah, yeah, the secret "filled out the Survey; submission ID #133759336#" badge
@JohnDvorak doesn't matter as long as it's gold ;)
1:53 PM
@Shadow9 I think its one of those "i'll break it for many old users so we are not going to something till we HAVE to"
Sha, they should grab it daily and serve it themselves; if they insist on keeping it.
Q: Implement the Hacker Badge

Evil Stack Inc Abuses UsersWhen Jeff first explained the badge system, before Stack Overflow was even in beta, one of the badges he described was a "Hacker" badge. from Stack Overflow Badge Feedback - Blog - Stack Overflow I’m specifically referring to the secret Stack Overflow hacker badge. It does exis...

so few remember the old memes now.
@AndrasDeak and this:
A: Why is SE suddenly using "identicon" instead of "gravatar"?

IzzySumming up from the comments: It's again Gravatar's servers screwing up things – and nothing SE could do about it. For understanding: the d parameter is not about what type of icon to use – but it tells Gravatar which icon generating algorithm to use when there is no image attached to that ema...

1:55 PM
@Shadow9 Not really. They have no meaning, they're just geometric shapes blended in one another.
@Rob nah too complicated
@avazula sounds nice
Don't know if I have pictures at hand
Lemme check
Having something easy and sensible that works is complicated. Very poor testing before rollout, 90% of the time (and excellent testing occasionally).
points at @avazula's phone camera
If only they had someone they could ask which of the services are available for the bulk of their user base...
01:00 - 14:0014:00 - 00:00

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