Tavern on the Meta - 2020-01-29 (page 3 of 3)

« first day (3465 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (1542 days later) »

6:06 PM

@πάνταῥεῖ and blobfish are much less ugly when alive 4 km deep

πάντα ῥεῖ

@AndrasDeak Whatever is considered ugly :D

^^ True, light only penetrates 1 km:

user image

6:25 PM

Before I install any patch, I always open the patch notes and Ctrl-F for 'supervolcano', 'seagull', and 'garbage disposal', just to be safe.

6:37 PM

The live coding language that lets you be an actual rock star

Ryan Donovan on January 29, 2020

You’ve seen those job listings that are looking for a “JavaScript Rock Star” and likely rolled your eyes. It seems silly to think that whatever skill you have at programming is going to get you featured in Rolling Stone. Besides, code on a screen is not likely to land you the legions of screaming fans that a sick guitar solo will.

Unless you’re Sam Aaron, that is. He’s the creator of Sonic Pi, a live coding language for making music. It’s an open source project that he built which creates music from code in real time. The world of music is taking notice: Rolling Stone described him as “transcending the present” when he performed at the same festival as Grimes. …

o.O

πάντα ῥεῖ

I'd expect a cacophony from most samples :D

I can code really well, but I don't know $%!& about how to decide which note to use to make which sound. It always amazes me how artists choose which note to sing songs in, or how song writers choose which note it should be sang in.

πάντα ῥεῖ

But well, I am also a fan of heavy metal music.

... or Jazz

<3 Jazz

At any given moment I could just fly off to NOLA. I swear.

Just print a flier from their upcoming events and walk around the office like "who's comin with me?!"

πάντα ῥεῖ

6:44 PM

@TravisJ Thelonius Monk or Keith Jarrett are masters of this kinda change in harmony.

Sonic Pi is cool, but I wish it were in JS and done in a website.

apps are so 90's

7:04 PM

@Catija Is there a reason the Hot Meta list for SO went away for a while? Was gone for 10 mins and then came back (only MSE and blog entries were showing)

@Machavity Given the right circumstance, the featured on meta section can contain posts only from MSE even if MSO posts are featured.

@TravisJ That wasn't the case here. Had 2 blogs and one MSE (which has only one atm). The front page typically has that + the two MSO featured. Only the MSO stuff went missing

Didn't affect any other SE site using the older "hot meta" system

So there was only one "meta featured" post in the sidebar?

Correct. Wish I'd screenshotted but went away before I could post anything

Hm, yeah that is different than what I was referring to

7:18 PM

@Machavity The Hot on meta section on SO has been gone for months?

@Catija Not the "hot meta", the [featured] MSO questions

@Catija I think he meant "Featured on Meta"

... I mean... you literally said hot so... :P

I don't see any reason it would have disappeared. so... ?

Have you considered leveling your telepathy?

;)

I actually have pretty good telepathy but sometimes I choose to be literal insetad.

7:22 PM

Okay. What am I thinking?

it was tacos

πάντα ῥεῖ

With chili?

Chili tacos? I think you have invented something

Unless you meant chili like queso con rajas

πάντα ῥεῖ

@TravisJ Not really: emilybites.com/2019/03/chili-cheese-tacos.html

"Tacos" is always the answer

@πάνταῥεῖ yum

I am seriously making those this weekend for Super Bowl.

πάντα ῥεῖ

7:25 PM

Yes!

Oooh, that's like a frito pie but in taco form.

@Catija Not a big deal, was just hoping it was one of those things. Fixed itself, whatever it was

Oh, I don't think so.

user image

👍

not vegan?

7:36 PM

@TravisJ I didn't know organic vegetarians tasted good in chili

Also, is it asbestos-free? I'm worried it might not be asbestos-free.

Meh, not really a fan of canned meat

Goes good when mixed with pub cheese and topped with tri tip

@Feeds how much staff do they have on blog duty

@user1306322 enough to drown out the important stuff

I have no idea what kinds of people read these blogs and how is it still considered a profitable venue for marketing expenses in 2020

but maybe it's cheap enough

after all journalists don't get paid a lot

πάντα ῥεῖ

7:43 PM

^ And blamed to spread fake news

well professional journalism actually has that as a part of the job

more clickbait = better journalist

such are the times

get your news from rumor hood grandmas I guess :p

πάντα ῥεῖ

@user1306322 Thus D.J. unspeakable is the most awesome journalist in history ever?

idk about his stories but his music is outta this world

2

Q: How Prevent Mirror theft?

I want to know to fix PERMANENTLY back view mirrors.Last night,somebody stole them. Please tell me any solution.

πάντα ῥεῖ

@user1306322 That's not music but a cacophony.

I've been thinking of getting a bike but I just can't find a way for it to not get stolen just like everybody else's

someone already stole an old and crappy one many years ago and it still hurts more than the cost of it

also why does nobody edit questions anymore lol

7:51 PM

yawn

@πάνταῥεῖ in any case that's a pretty cool disc jockey name

wow i was so busy today I don't think I really dropped by chat :O

πάντα ῥεῖ

@user1306322 LOL

(I don't have an account on bikes, if someone cares to fix this title pls do)

πάντα ῥεῖ

@user1306322 They seem to have been much more subtle than I ever thought of that blatant idiot. :D :D

7:55 PM

fun thing about music, these days young people have 0 care in the world for who was famous just 5 years ago and this is the best

present day "popular" music sources are all for "old people" now

I like finding random bands or one-person producers who make pretty good music in all kinds of genres on soundcloud and bandcamp

this is so much better than the usual limit of top 150 popular names 20 of which you could remember off the top of your head right now without even trying

we've been subjected to the same music for decades by radio and music channels on tv and thank god it's finally fading into obscurity

@user1306322 Me: *puts on music* Everyone else in my house: *covers their ears*

8:10 PM

@Machavity FWIW (which is not much) I saw it, as well. And wondered... But was busy at the time so didn't get around to worrying before it was back :-)

meh, probably just caching

:tinfoilhat:

@Catija Well, I had a good experience today that gave me hope :-) Survey on Review Queues - they're not going to be shut down, despite rumors/theories to the contrary. So that's one fear off the check-list...

Why would we shut down review queues? :)

No idea, just one of those rumors that got started the last few months...

The idea that SO is going to be opened for "everything", no more quality control, etc.

8:29 PM

that's a pretty silly rumor

πάντα ῥεῖ

"Little Lies" Fleetwood Mac performed by Rumours of Fleetwood Mac

Disappointed in SE

@Catija I think that the more general veasion of this fear is that SE will overreach in some efforts to make the site more welcoming. My personal opinion is that SE will likely have to touch downvotes and closing to actually achieve the goal of a better experience for newbies, and that's a really tough nut to crack even in the best of times.

So the rumor might simply be because the review queues are for downvoting and closing stuff, and SE might intervene there to make the site more welcoming

9:16 PM

29

A: Can we make the "expanded user card" privilege universal?

I am happy to announce that hover cards are now working for all users. We have removed the rep requirement for this (previously 1000 rep), so it will show for any user. Based on your feedback, we have also moved down the content requirement for showing the hover card from 28 characters to 6 chara...

did I somehow disable this feature or is it broken everywhere now?

Working for me.

on this very page?

Like... it's not on chat, but I checked with that answer.

ohh the picture

I think you could just hover over the entire block and it would pop up

for some reason I was hovering over username and it doesn't do anything

9:42 PM

@Glorfindel You around?

@DisappointedinSE I understand that. But we've also done things that make closing way easier, like reducing votes needed to close from 5 to 3.

Disappointed in SE

@Catija I really like that change, though I think many people are likely to misinterpret it as making it easier to close questions, while the more interesting effect is likely that it puts reopening a question actually into the realm of the possible, which is wasn't in most cases before

@CindyMeister I want to apologise! I realize that my response might have seemed flippant and I'm very happy that you had a good experience. I'm usually pingable here. If there's things you have questions about, I'll try to answer them as best I can.

Disappointed in SE

My own ideas on making SE less intimidating for new users are probably too radical for the community to accept, but I suspect that you have to be quite radical to actually make a difference in that area. That's going to be a tough sell

Possibly. My inbox is always open if you want someone to look at them. The interesting thing about radical ideas is that there are often parts of them that aren't so radical and work well on their own.

Disappointed in SE

I don't remember whether I put them on meta or only in TL, but my first step for making the site more friendly to new users would be to remove question downvotes entirely (which probably requires closing to be easier and more powerful, though the change to 3 votes helps here).

9:55 PM

just remove voting entirely, leaving closing/reopening and have closing always result in deletion after a period of time. reputation based entirely on accepted answers, and badges to supplement reputation based on popularity of said questions/answers (view based)

@DisappointedinSE I actually agree with this. I think it's a lot more ... easy to grasp? ... than just... hiding the score if it's under 0 or -1. Also easier to achieve technically than my other pet idea - make all questions start out "closed" and have them get reviewed and voted on to make them live. This would work great... most places but not SO. Might help FGITW stuff, too.

And, (with the latter) you can always greenlight users for immediate posting based on some metric... kinda like edit suggestions.

Disappointed in SE

@Catija I found my meta post on this, was quite easy after all just by looking at my most downvoted questions on MSE ;-). Shog made some good points there, which don't actually invalidate my main premise, but are about other systems like question bans that need the feedback from downvotes

@DisappointedinSE Sure .. and I've actually discussed this with Shog and... well, the caveat there is... we have a ton more data now and there should be other ways (beside downvotes) to get the same results... heck, closed and deleted posts are one of them.

But my big problem, which I've ranted about ... is how much votes play into it... they have an outsized effect which ... well, it incentivizes pile on downvotes.

Also... I upvoted that question so... :P

i kinda feel like question bans are too quick/strong anyway. if the throttle was strictly based on questions being closed/delete, I think that'd be a more approachable system, one people can get out of. Maybe based on a sliding window so that a user can't get so far into the positive that they're immune to it

Disappointed in SE

The part that worries me is that I think some radical change in that direction is necessary, but even when community relations were much better it would have been a hard sell. Attracting enough new users that actively participate is crucial for overall quality, but it's a much more subtle effect than direct moderation. With the way community relations are right now, any change like this will be a bloodbath on meta

10:06 PM

delete meta

lol

@user400654 ... that's what I mean. Those pile on downvotes are what make it like that... a question with -10 is way harder to come back from than 5 questions with -3.

and then you have users who just ask... tons of questions, where they happen to have enough good ones to get by on all the bad ones. not sure how i feel about those

If the fitting function for the throttle needs work, then improve the function. No need to change the system to match a broken function, just going to make things worse.

i can't understand their PoV

I have to be cautious about how much I say since the exact math is secret...

10:08 PM

i can't even ask 1 question

much less thousands

The exact math isn't that secret if you have been following this since its inception.

i don't think the exact math is as important as the basics of how it works

@user400654 Different needs. I ... almost never ask questions (other than on Meta). They just don't occur to me unless I'm in dire need (and usually on meta there's a need)... and there's usually a resource to answer my question without posting it here. So, I... have the resources and vocabulary to ask questions of the internet and get my solutions.

negative content repeatedly results in a throttle.... thus making it near impossible to exit the throttle because you can no longer post things more than twice a year. it happens very quickly if you post a question that hits a few keywords and is exceptionally bad at the right time of day

right

so... there was this user i was keeping track of a while back that had me... iunno, confused? perplexed? irritated?

Fairly clear that there needs to be an adjustment which uses a time weighting metric. You could base it inversely on the "hotness formula"

10:13 PM

they'd ask questions almost daily, if not multiple times a day. they'd always have the max number of bounties running on their own questions, and many of their questions were poorly received

but... they always gained rep

they always had a question or a few questions that were received positively enough to overcome any negative

@TravisJ There's (very intentionally) no decay...

and these weren't unique, deeply difficult questions... they were things you can find from a quick google search

so they were all quickly answered

@Catija There's (very clearly) an issue with the function...

And I know there is no decay, why do you think I just suggested that it be implemented?

I can't understand how someone can legitimately have so many questions to post here

56

Q: No one likes quitting cold turkey

The ban process is very useful to preventing low quality posts - for the most part. One very large glaring issue with it is that users can bypass it at will by using a different account. On a daily basis users hit the ban, and then either bypass it or take to meta to figure out why it happened a...

feature-request status-completed post-ban rate-limiting anti-recidivism-system

10:15 PM

unless ofc they just aren't learning.. iunno

@TravisJ Does time weighting metric mean decay?

like, at a certain point you learn how to research and find the answer rather than wasting time writing it out on SO

@Catija Essentially yes, it would. It would mean that over time the negative effects of poorly received posts would decline.

Ah. yeah. :)

@Catija Yes, there are pile-on upvotes too - person X is usually correct (or has a fancy usercard), I can only upvote anyways so I should do that, plus a half dozen did already. Oh the shame, that I should have to scroll down to find that the correct answer only has a couple of votes; a month later reality is shattered, the chosen answer isn't correct. Better post something about it. My post, my post, no it's not a duplicate, nooooo.

10:18 PM

downvotes feel completely broken to me

the fact that so few people actually use them, and how so many do use upvotes, surely there's not just so much more good content than useless repeat poorly researched content at this point

They make sense on answers... for ranking. They make less sense on questions. Closing, flagging, etc... there are other ways to give feedback... and if we're really worried about the long-term visibility of spam or abusive content, still allow flags to downvote... but also make extra certain that people aren't abusing flags just to get something deleted.

Upvoting is a stronger signal than a downvote.

There is a race to the top, not the bottom. The middle doesn't really matter much.

Depends on the site... There are absolutely times on IPS where there was a race to the bottom. :P

how many jquery questions can actually really be useful after 10 years of questions and no major updates in 4-5 years?

It is a dangerous thing to consider changing core aspects of the model without an exceptionally large mandate with a clear presentation that it is problematic.

@user400654 Failed reasoning. The answer absolutely has no bearing on the system.

10:23 PM

ofcourse not. what i'm trying to point out is that the system isn't rating these questions properly.

If there is a question which helps the asker, and gets basically no views, then it doesn't harm the system. There is no point in spending effort to address those situations.

the users aren't marking these questions as not useful, duplicates, etc, they get answered.

upvoted

It doesn't matter what their rating is if they are not in the way.

Culling a group because of a perceived, yet non existent threat, is just harmful with no point.

@Catija It shouldn't really depend on smaller sites, since it is a system wide mechanism. While there may be observations to be made in niche areas, it should not be changed system wide because if it negatively effects one of the main areas then it will be catastrophic.

I'm not even sure what you're thinking I'm talking about changing at the moment. I would think what I said would be an argument for leaving things as they are.

So many create a new account, ask one question, and often get nothing or downvotes. When you are rep 1 any number of downvotes count for nothing unless you do that 2 more times on the same account. On some sites you'll see a stream of 'rep 1 questions' whose view count is based on the title without votes or answers. Users have learned that the OP is unlikely to upvote and accept a good answer, simply checking back anonymously later on. I agree with leaving things as they are for at least a

few more months, we only just changed Qs from 5 to 10; let's see the effect first.

10:32 PM

@Catija You said you agree with "remove question downvotes entirely". I certainly don't, and I expressed why in several comments. I also don't think it depends on the site, which was my recent response.

15

Q: New users don't value reputation

For a long while the issue of addressing how to prevent off topic or low quality questions has been looked at from multiple angles. I have tried many times to take part in these conversations. At times there has been success in addressing the overall quality of the sites from these discussions s...

feature-request reputation new-users se-quality-project

@TravisJ Ah, but the thing I said about IPS related to answers, not questions. I'd just said "they make sense on answers" and that's what I was riffing on. :)

That didn't seem apparent. The point still stands.

@TravisJ 👌👍

:)

@Rob - Ah, you actually posted an answer there which I upvoted previously as well

5 makes sense, as does tying questions together by IP Address for the purpose of making them jump through a hoop or at least issue a warning that bad questions have come from the IP Address (or sock puppets).

Also asked for (and rejected) is read the Tour before posting.

« first day (3465 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (1542 days later) »

Transcript for

Jan '2029

Tavern on the Meta

MY GOD, IT'S FULL OF STARS AND BACKLOG! General friendly chit-...

bug crickets discussion excuses support waffles

join this room
about this room

00:00

06:00

12:00

18:00

all times are UTC

site design / logo © 2024 Stack Exchange Inc; legal

mobile