Tavern on the Meta - 2020-01-28 (page 2 of 3)

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10:08 AM

I just saw an anime girl waving at me from a sign and did a double take.

Turns out El Al has anime style advertisements for flights to Tokyo.

I'm just never in a city large enough to have those ads ;)

@Mithical why a generic anime girl? They should have used Doraemon

He is an official Ambassador of Japan.

I have no idea who that is

Journeyman Geek

!!!!!

Doraemon (Japanese: ドラえもん Japanese pronunciation: [do̞ɾa̠e̞mõ̞ɴ]) is a Japanese manga series written and illustrated by Fujiko Fujio, the pen name of the duo Hiroshi Fujimoto and Motoo Abiko. The series has also been adapted into a successful anime series and media franchise. The story revolves around an earless robotic cat named Doraemon, who travels back in time from the 22nd century to aid a boy named Nobita Nobi (野比のび太, Nobi Nobita). The first full story in the Doraemon manga series was published in January 1970. A pre-advertisement for the manga was published in six different magazines in...

> In March 2008, Japan's Foreign Ministry appointed Doraemon as the nation's first "anime ambassador."

@JourneymanGeek I know absolutely nothing about anime or manga :D

10:19 AM

just made an interesting discovery

Visual Studio supports ZALGO in class names.....

@rene which part

@BlueSoul Now we can write code that is truly evil.

@rene top right red seems to be "spam or rude/abusive flags"

below that "moderator flags"

@BlueSoul stop. turn back from the path you have chosen

it is not yet too late

2 custom, 1 NAA, and the last one I don't understand but has to do with the actual redaction in question

10:23 AM

I think you can use google translate on a phone with the live translate of what the camera sees and it should do a pretty good job

the tickbox probably says "ignore time filter"

the item just above the checkbox says "suggested edit approved" which I don't understand why it would be among the flags

@user1306322 hmm?

@Magisch I keep a pdf copy of the Voynich manuscript with all the other SharePoint books . It is already to late.

@user1306322 perhaps it's a flag requesting an edit to a locked post?

"post block of redaction" sounds like it

10:28 AM

is there anything like that in English flags?

Not that I know of, but it might be some smart system that categorizes custom flags perhaps?

russian localization is extremely anglophobic, like someone went way out of their way to try and use all of the rarest variants of the phrases and terms, so sometimes it's hard to understand what the text means even if you're a long time English site SE user

there have been complaints about this on ru.so meta but I guess the powers that be have prevailed over the community

contrary to that the tickbox seems to include both "ignorirovat'" and "filtr" ;)

well, that's one of the rare occurrences

Does "na Mete" refer to Meta? Conjugated?

10:32 AM

you could try and come up with something extreme still

на = on

I know, I was asking about "Mete"

It didn't occur to me that you'd conjugate foreign words like that, even if I do the same in Hungarian

yea it's something like conjugation

So do you say "Metu" when sending someone there? Is Meta female? :D

yea seems right

I don't though coz I don't use ru.so normally :p

I remember reading a question on their meta, something about "Why are you using RU.SO?" and one of the more popular responses is "coz I don't understand English yet"

localized SO sites have always been weird to me

10:36 AM

yea it's the limited number of experts and posts which makes it less valuable than English variants, since most programming and software development in the world that really matters is done in English

@AndrasDeak quick, edit that before the mods notice! CoC clearly requires you to use "they" for Meta since they never expressed a preference

it takes time for new specs and tech info to get translated and then trickle down through popular media to end users

Hungarian terms for programming concepts creep me out to this day. Even if it's just "fájl" which is file phonetically

yea european languages can be funny

but it really sucks when you try to buy a thing in a european supermarket and it's called something you'd expect it to be, but it's actually different

the entire dairy section is screwed in eastern europe

you gotta know what you're getting there

... which we do. Don't worry.

10:40 AM

like cottage cheese, soft cheese, yogurt-like stuff, etc

Heh, I can imagine. I talked to some French guys about cottage cheese which is a commonplace dairy item here, and they said they aren't even sure there's a word for it in French.

well, I'm not worried for locals, I'm talking about tourists

I find english to be utterly indispensable when coding

Journeyman Geek

.....

@Magisch only because if you coded in German your code base would have 2x the size ;)

10:41 AM

no it's because for 4/5 issues I couldn't possibly find a solution in german

@AndrasDeak yea that's a funny thing, some of these products just don't exist in certain countries

What if I code in Hebrew - would my code base be shrunk in half?

depends on encoding :p

@JohnDvorak you get much better compression in Chinese or similar

in unicode it's all the same

10:42 AM

if you have letters you've already lost

you can't use a one-byte codepage for Chinese

Also, almost all job ads for software devs feature "professional level english speaking and writing required" or some variation thereof

about 30% or so even want to see a certificate

@Magisch I looked at jobs where a friend works out of curiosity (they do java so I'm not interested in any of that). It said "the applicant must accept that the language used in the workplace is Hungarian"...

software dev company

@user1306322 says the English, "could you please give me some pepper?" What will you chose - the spice or the vegetable?

Journeyman Geek

THE ENGLISH! I KNOW HER WELL AS SHE IS SPOKEN!

10:44 AM

"Yeah, I know we've been interviewing in English this whole time ... but can you prove to me with a piece of paper that says you can actually speak it?"

I would say you are more likely to get hired as a software devs with no degree then without at least high level conversational english skills

@BlueSoul context saves lives :P

@BlueSoul I'll expect a list

Journeyman Geek

@user1306322 Dr Pepper does not contain pepper

@AndrasDeak yep, expecialy if you are sitting at a table and you have both in front of you :P

10:46 AM

@JohnDvorak that reminds me of when I was applying after school. Some big german company that will be left unnamed had us do an interview in english, and then went on to have us take a test too

@BlueSoul I've never in my life seen both pepper and pepper at a table...

whereas the test was substantially easier then the interview

Journeyman Geek

is in piper nigrum, Capsicum cultivars ....

@Magisch ACME Gmbh.

in all seriousness though, never once in my life have I seen or heard anyone I know asking for pepper in any dining setting, only when cooking bell peppers at home maybe

10:47 AM

@AndrasDeak then you never ate salad and grilled pepper in the same meal ^_^'

Indeed. But at least in my language we have very different words for the two ;)

also when planting chili pepper seeds

Journeyman Geek

@user1306322 I'm indian. I would be shocked if we did not have things with either or both in the same meal :D

actually, the spice is called paprika, even in English...

I mean the food should already have enough spices, pepper included

Journeyman Geek

10:48 AM

@JohnDvorak IIRC there's a specific preperation of a specific cultivar

like cayenne pepper or curry mix

@JohnDvorak I think that usually means ground paprika, the spice (another spice)

if you have to ask for pepper, the food wasn't cooked right imo

@user1306322 unless you just throw together scrambled eggs. OK, I guess I may have seen both peppers at a table...

@JohnDvorak erh... we are kinda talking about this....

user image

10:49 AM

I've only seen ground black pepper in diners

Ah, sorrry

well we call bell peppers "paprika", which threw me :D

restaurants usually don't have pepper shakers, that's like a sign of low quality diner food

I thought he was talking about that

@user1306322 salad. Some like to add some black pepper, others don't

10:50 AM

by "restaurants" I mean anything that is not the cheapest of the cheap ones :p

nothing fancy high society of course

@BlueSoul hmm maybe you ask for extra pepper when you order the salad at a food court

last time I saw salt and pepper shakers on tables was probably at the end of the 90's

@user1306322 that is an option, but to be fair I was thinking about home, not restaurant.

oh I just have packets of spices at home, no shakers/grinders

@BlueSoul some pepper would get you the ground, dry spice. A pepper would get you the fruit. If you have the spice and a bowl of cut-up peppers on the table, you would have to ask for "some peppers" to get the fruit, asking for pepper alone would still get you the ground spice.

and if you live in a cannibalistic tribe, "a cup of Joe" would get you a brew from the body parts of a poor trespasser :p

@user1306322 in Israel most have, even high class.

10:54 AM

"sloppy Joe" is a thinker

Journeyman Geek

@terdon Pepper for chillies is an americanism :D

@user1306322 I have a pair in front of me right now

@JourneymanGeek well... It is fake advertisement at best :P

> “Second only to [gold], Ferdinand and Isabella hoped for black pepper” from Columbus’s expedition, writes Richard Schweid in Hot Peppers: The Story of Cajuns and Capsicum. Instead, Columbus came across what the Taíno called axí, or the unrelated capsicums. They ate the spicy berries abundantly, Columbus wrote in 1493. Already, he began to build their profile. The peppers, he wrote, were “more valuable than the common sort”: that is, more valuable than black pepper. Not only that, but they could be attained much more easily than the fabulously expensive black pepper.

Basically, you have to thank Columbus for the confusion.

Or so they say.

Journeyman Geek

shakes a fist

Worse conman than Raffles he was

"I didn't find any peppers, but I bring you pepper"

11:03 AM

@JourneymanGeek ?

Are we doing pep talk?

Journeyman Geek

@terdon we don't call the green or red hot fruit pepper in a lot of the brit-e speaking world

@JourneymanGeek Oh? They're certainly called peppers in the UK.

Journeyman Geek

strange.

Chilies are peppers. They're called chili peppers after all.

Journeyman Geek

11:05 AM

Bell Peppers = Capsium to me

Capsicum. Sure

Journeyman Geek

nope. We just call em Chillies :D

Yes, also.

But even in BrE:

dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/chili-pepper

In any case, the main difference is the pluralization. If you talk about pepper you mean the spice, and if you refer to peppers you mean the fruit. Usually.

pupper <= puppy; pepper <= peppy

It's not fruit, it's a vegetable

11:11 AM

@AndrasDeak Also a band. ;)

a rubber band

@Stevoisiak ugh.... also got actual wiki... lol

@AndrasDeak It's a fruit: it has seeds on the inside. Same as a tomato.

> Examples of culinary "vegetables" and nuts that are botanically fruit include corn, cucurbits (e.g., cucumber, pumpkin, and squash), eggplant, legumes (beans, peanuts, and peas), sweet pepper, and tomato. In addition, some spices, such as allspice and chili pepper, are fruits, botanically speaking.

@Shadow9 I'm confused why is this a guessable pattern minesweeper.info/wiki/images/4/4e/Guessing2.png

doesn't the 232 pattern guarantee that there are mines only in the left column and not on the top-right and bottom-right cells?

@user1306322 dunno, it's obviously 5 in there

11:15 AM

@user1306322 the cell with the "?". Could contain a mine. Or not.

oh

oh

that's what they mænt

mine't

I think the game will let you know if you've won when you click top right and bottom right cells which should be empty here

@terdon if legumes are fruits then probably so is black pepper :)

@AndrasDeak yep

> Black pepper (Piper nigrum) is a flowering vine in the family Piperaceae, cultivated for its fruit, known as a peppercorn, which is usually dried and used as a spice and seasoning.

11:20 AM

nevermind, misunderstood, sorry

don't ~~drink and drive~~ digest and chat

Apology not accepted

good thing I wasn't talking to you :P

smacks @Andras

:D

@terdon so we agree that "you refer to peppers you mean the fruit" is still ambiguous? ;)

@AndrasDeak Dammit!

Yes, we do, well played :)

Journeyman Geek

11:32 AM

Eats popcorn. With pepper

French Fries With Pepper - Morphine

Journeyman Geek

also I'm hungry and waiting for my shift to end. :D

@JourneymanGeek Eats watermelon. With salt

Journeyman Geek

thats unusual. But I'm sure there's places they would serve that with pepper powder. Which sort? I WILL NOT TELL YOU CAUSE ENGLISH IS STRANGE!

@JourneymanGeek how long is your shift?

11:47 AM

@JourneymanGeek It's a pity I can find a screenshot of a specific festival in RFF then.

Journeyman Geek

@Shadow9 12 hours

Quick trivia: which company is this from? (Staff diversity report)

user image

Hint: not SE ;)

@Shadow9 a survey like that at work would creep me out

then again my country isn't exactly accepting

@AndrasDeak well most employees in that company did it, and it goes much deeper.

(yes it also includes sexual orientation)

@Shadow9 no clue, google image search comes up blank

11:51 AM

Big hint: Joel

Microsoft? Nice.

on that note I wouldn't trust the anonymity of such a survey unless it was literally me doing the anonymizing

@AndrasDeak nope

discourse? or what is joel's new company called?

D:

11:53 AM

@Magisch not Jeff, Joel

ah

fog creek?

@Magisch it was, yes

Disappointed in SE

@Magisch Most people creating this kind of survey don't understand how to anonymize well, and it's often almost impossible to do it properly. You only need a few fields that are a bit too granular or specific to identify some users, even if it is anonymized otherwise.

Now known as Glitch. :)

@DisappointedinSE Like I said, unless I was doing the anonymizing, I wouldn't trust it

11:55 AM

glitch.com/~diversity-report-spring-2019

And I would have to spend quite a bit of time micromanaging the questions and to see what to keep and what to further anonymize

Disappointed in SE

@Magisch I wouldn't trust it even if I did the anonymization myself as I'd probably fail at it as well

depending on the size you may have to bring in a professional whose job it is to get that right

Well they gave the survey only for USA employees.

Not to their users.

well tbf they can't control their userbase

the composition of their userbase is mostly organic and no company will outright tell a user to leave because they don't expand diversity targets

that would be PR suicide (not to mention reduce profit)

12:04 PM

oh god I just spent 5 min reading the backlog about pepper.

Also, pepper pig.

@Magisch Women get in free on thursdays!

@Magisch give SO two months

actually, from hearsay the hand-picked "focus group" might be exactly that

Nah. They are first and foremost a company

@Magisch "If you are brown join us at this even next weekend" .... and if I am not?

@AndrasDeak Given that nobody with knowledge of the group or composition has talked about it, that's probably pure speculation

I'm OK with speculation

12:18 PM

@BlueSoul if you're not then go rant on meta and nobody will listen. Case solved.

;)

12:47 PM

@Shadow9 Cis' man!

@user1306322 Oh, I didn't know it could do image. I only used the text translate so far. But with the non-latin charset that becomes a bit difficult to transcribe from an image. That is my fault / lack of effort.

*rescinds rene's water*

you can't rescind his water

the power of water refocused renews

1:11 PM

cache breaker ignore ...

@rene you had one thing to do...

user image

Hold your water

:D

@BlueSoul they'd never say that

hahahah

HAHAHAH

1:31 PM

@djsmiley2kTMW I will take your laughter as a sign that you recognized the reference.

I don't frequent cafe's in NYC, but when I do....

@rene huh? What's that? userscript? I don't see it.

@Shadow9 I saw it shortly on a question but could not reproduce after three refreshes. Was on MSO

they should've named it "rene pls circle with red freehand circle thx"

1:58 PM

@rene out of curiosity: do flower jokes on SE annoy you?

I never asked but I honestly have no idea if they do or nah

This got refeatured a couple minutes ago: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/392867/…

@Magisch his fault for choosing a flower avatar instead of a pony one :P

@BlueSoul but you see, if it actually annoys him, I shall desist from making these jokes

their entertainment value drops considerably if the subject can't share in the laughter

but on the other hand he's Dutch

so?

uuuh so you like tulips? :P

2:03 PM

That is the worst recovery of something that was about to go south ;)

@Magisch if it were you would have known by now.

we would have noticed the vehement taxis in an attempt to disengage

@Magisch that reminds me that I'll should ask @Tinkeringbell how her knitting is going :P

huh, tinkeringbell backwards is llebgnire knit

@Magisch re-featured, two weeks after the featured tag was removed by SE staff. Brave move, mod can be kicked for that.

like the last time it probably represents a sort of mod consensus

2:07 PM

@Shadow9 I wouldn't assume that it's pure defiance, they probably asked about it behind the scenes or something. And if it is, I don't think SE would fire a SO mod over that. With how many left, they can hardly afford for something like this.

@Magisch I'm 100% sure that if the mod acted on their own will, they won't be mod for long.

Disappointed in SE

Yeah, here are my reasons: this was unfeatured previously to grant slots for CEO's and a sponsored tag merge post. Also, I miss Shog. — Samuel Liew ♦ 52 secs ago

3

@AndrasDeak See? Even destiny put knitting in her name. Yet, she won't trust fate and continues to prefer crochet.

sentences starting with "I don't think SE would fire" are awfully optimistic these days

@BlueSoul that's because crochet is cooler than knitting

Disappointed in SE

@Magisch I'm not sure they'd ask SE before doing that. My impression was that the SO mods were pretty pissed about the rule change for featuring resignations.

2:10 PM

We all were. I don't expect any mod to actually follow that rule. If they want it unfeatured, they can do it themselves. The more interesting question is whether the local mods will choose to leave it unfeatured.

@DisappointedinSE If this indeed represents a mod consensus (if not consensus it's probably not all that controversial) SE would do nothing of the sort of demodding someone over it

if nothing else they probably don't fancy starting monicagate 2.0 with the entire SO mod team

@AndrasDeak btw, t(h)ink I may have found an unreleased video of Tink on youtube.

How to knit a sweater, if you have a parrot.

It's interesting because they cited legal concerns when unfeaturing it

If nothing else, it shows that Sam thinks that was not the real reason

Disappointed in SE

@terdon I know that all mods in TL were angry about it. I have to guess a bit more about the SO mods as they keep more to their own mod chat room.

Samuel can always claim he didn't get the memo ...

Journeyman Geek

2:13 PM

@terdon and we won't ask them to

I really don't think that this is the hill SE would want to die on

not that I havent been wrong about that before, so ymmv

But forcing out more of the very few mods they have left? nah

I would think they're smarter then that

Disappointed in SE

@Magisch right now every hill is the one they decide to die on, they're not really skipping any opportunities

@Magisch this has nothing to do with intelligence

you'd think that firing Shog is a very very dumb move

@Magisch SE that we knew and that respect its employees is long dead anyway.

@AndrasDeak Having a wave of mass resignations from the SO mod team is an existential business threat for them. They know that.

2:18 PM

@Magisch no it's not.

CM can do the mods job.

Just another rock on their back.

Do you know just how much the SO mods do every day?

@Magisch a lot.

Every one of them taking a month off would make a lot of waves already

So the CM won't do anything else. Who cares? sad laugh

@Magisch most of that is not mission critical for IPO

Disappointed in SE

2:19 PM

@Magisch It probably isn't. But a full breakdown of moderation on SO is likely the closest to a threat to their business model the community would be capable of.

4

or so they might think

@Magisch you realize that as soon as the elections start we will get a new fresh generation of "oooohhhhhh, power" mods even if all the considerate, good, honest, [insert quality here] users on the network globally decided to not candidate ?

ignoring resignations from smaller sites is one thing. They don't have much visibility and can be left out of KPI calculations for revenue. SO is another thing alltogether

it is just a matter of time until that problem gets autosolved too.

@BlueSoul that's why the correct approach is to run, and then resign

2:21 PM

@JohnDvorak Then they'll call up the next candidate

you will always find some users that will jump at the opportunity to be a mod. Because powwa&prestige. Not necessarily a good mod, but who needs a good mod?

Disappointed in SE

And community moderation can deal with a lot of the blatant stuff like spam and offensive posts. The part that would be affected by the diamond mods stopping would be far more subtle and only become apparent over a much longer timeframe.

depending on who runs on TWP, I might run myself. I don't want to, but I still like TWP and will run if nobody I'd vote for does

yikes lets tone it a bit

:D

!!/tone it

@Shadow9 No such command 'tone'.

2:23 PM

:(

Lets just be happy the post is refeatured and shog and robert get a more proper homage

oh, it got refeatured? Nice!

@Magisch that said, 10k already raised.

Dollars, not rep.

@Magisch I just moved the second part of the message to the above one so that both lines are together since I was "interrupted" in between. Nothing compromising in the deleted post. Just moved a few lines up in the thread for sake of clarity

aww, but I already deleted my response to that line...

2:26 PM

@Shadow9 yeah, hopefully it takes the edge off a bit

I donated also, via paypal. It's only fair after so many years of benefiting from shog's work. If SE won't do the right thing with regards to a severance, maybe we will.

hmm.. any idea why Google follows this account?

user image

@Magisch how? It let me donate only with credit card.

I did, but guess it prevents many from donating.

@Shadow9 I emailed george who then sent me shog's paypal address to send it to

@Magisch oh, nice.

3:21 PM

Podcast – From Prison to Programming with the Code Cooperative

Ben Popper on January 28, 2020

Our guest this week is Alex Qin, co-founder and CEO of the Code Cooperative.

Alex graduated from NYU with a degree in computer science and worked as a developer and engineer at several startups in New York City, eventually assuming senior roles like engineering team lead and director of technology.

Along the way, however, she found herself face with discrimination and harassment. In 2016, she dramatically altered her appearance, an experience she discusses in a humorous and poignant talk – Shaving My Head Made me a Better Developer. …

3:39 PM

Is Stack Exchange Android App not available for Android 9.0?

as far as I know the apps are no longer supported. : meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/373307/…

@Pandya it's a miracle if it is

@Gimby the death of the apps was declared here:

5

A: Q&A blank in Stack Exchange Android app v1.0.95 - S10e/Android 10

We are not providing any further support for the mobile apps. There will not be any more builds made for either the Android or the iOS app (even for breaking bugs). We encourage all mobile users to use the responsive website. We hope to continue to incrementally improve the user experience for mo...

@DisappointedinSE if anyone wants to post that feature request to increase limit for featured posts to >2 everywhere, could be a good time :p

@Shadow9 Hi! How are you?

4:01 PM

hmm

where'd the bulletin boatyard go on mse

it is gone and will not return.

really?

Well, I made more stupid remarks 6 to 8 weeks ago and see what happened.

(I see someone going through my top posts, upvoting from the shadows >.>)

I don't know if it is on purpose or an accident.

4:09 PM

perhaps that cache dun did broke and we should not have ignored it

might be.

@user1306322 not me ;)

@Pandya 9

aka... sad

oh there are no featured posts currently

I was thinking maybe I could find the text in the raw html but it's not going to be there if there are no featured posts then

maybe there's currently no content to display in that box

@Shadow9 turn that 9 upside down

@user1306322 6?

:9 => :6

much… happier…

4:12 PM

:?

:s

Maybe togther

no

But 9 is alone

Alone is the 9

imdb.com/title/tt0472033

4:14 PM

lol

:D

4:32 PM

what I'm really hoping fresh coding Q&A sites will provide is none of the outdated answers to common coding problems, or at least they'll be caught early and littered with comments about how they're bad practice now and alternative solutions

it's not cool when all you get from search is 20 answers from 2013 about how Windows 7 has a quirk with the obsolete version of .Net Framework or something which is completely irrelevant today

4:50 PM

1

Q: Planned Maintenance for scheduled Wednesday, February 5, 2020 for Data Explorer

tl;dr; Planned service interruption that will impact Stack Exchange Data Explorer (SEDE). The site will be inaccessible for up to 12 hours on February 5, 2020 starting at 2:00pm UTC. Short Version: There will be an extended service outage for up to 12 hours starting at 2pm UTC (9am US/Eastern)...

discussion featured announcements

read that as "DOTA Explorer" and had to re-read

btw @ anyone who doesn't like where exactly any upcoming alternative Q&A sites are going: just wait until they are released, their source code should be free to modify and other devs will be able to pick it up and modify to something you might like better a bit later

I'm doing something very different from what others are doing for my 2 personal projects, mostly because my scale and purposes don't match with public Q&A goals, and it's heavily customized to have tight integration with certain software

if you're a dev you can use what others will publish, if not, you'll just have to wait :p

5:10 PM

ah there we go, the return of the featured box

A site where you don't have to ask if a question is about Python 2 or 3

5:40 PM

has anyone used NextCloud?

@user1306322 so you need microsoft to invent a new framework :D

they already said they're making 5

forget words like framework, core, net, it's just gonna be called "5"

:D

5 new frameworks \o/

oh no there's still gonna be a dot and a net in it

user image

github.com/dotnet/corefx/milestones

likely end of 2020 or start of 2021 more probably

πάντα ῥεῖ

Can pigs fly? Of course they can:

> meta.stackexchange.com/questions/342989/…

6:13 PM

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog gone

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog gone

6:24 PM

@πάνταῥεῖ *glances surreptitiously at pig catapult*

πάντα ῥεῖ

@Mithical I believe it even was a war technique (weapon) in the middle-ages :-P

6:36 PM

@user1306322 Well, NET.. sounded silly

6:54 PM

Even this sounds better:

soundcloud.com/jatwood/fallout-opening-theme-maybe

*sigh* I now have fifty minutes to kill in a cold bus stop

meta.stackexchange.com/posts/342958/revisions am I stupid or was the whole edit a grammatical error?

πάντα ῥεῖ

@Mithical Well, just take the train instead ;-D

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