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2:01 PM
well, smile :P
 
... you're on Candid Camera! RIP Dom DeLuise.
 
Lovely, right? ;)
 
@Hitodama I think you might be more into that show than I am... :)
 
@Journeyman @Tink are you allowing the usage of the term "Sack Exchange" referring to the "Getting Shogged" meme? (aka what you think of this edit war?) I'll accept any decision.
 
2:04 PM
heh
 
After all, being "Sacked" is dry fact.
So it fits just that meme.
 
[humor] is only allowed when it's in a blog title. You know, the good kind of top-down humor.
 
@GeorgeStocker this probably holds for SO. Not so much for smaller SE communities
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard I'd ask @Glorfindel. It's his post, after all. I'd do whatever he prefers.
 
2:07 PM
@terdon in this case is not even about the ponies. Just the song.
 
@terdon he started it...
 
Alan's Vision from The Amazing World of Gumball also comes to mind...
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard no particular mood to deal with it for now
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard Yes, but it might have been a typo
 
@terdon no, no way it's a typo.
@JourneymanGeek fair enough. waiting for parrot
 
2:14 PM
@ShadowTheBurningWizard That's why I'd ask him. If it isn't, it should stay. If it is, he can choose to keep it.
 
@terdon but people keep removing it.
That's the problem, and the reason I pinged mods.
@Anton hey, welcome back to Tavern! :)
 
oh, I just saw what happened in the last day.
This looks pretty bad.
 
@bjb568 which part?
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard yes
 
Firing Shog and Robert Carataino.
 
2:17 PM
@ShadowTheBurningWizard good morning :) if you can call it "good" ...and "morning"
 
Rob
@ShadowTheBurningWizard Here is the reference:
The New York Sack Exchange were the front four defensive line of the American football team New York Jets of the National Football League during the early 1980s. The line consisted of Mark Gastineau, Joe Klecko, Marty Lyons and Abdul Salaam. == Origins == In 1981, a fan by the name of Dan O'Connor submitted the "New York Sack Exchange" name to a pre-season contest held by The Jet Report, a team magazine. Jets public relations director Frank Ramos used the nickname in a press release and it was soon picked up by the media. All four members of the Sack Exchange were drafted by the Jets in the 1970s...
 
@AntonMenshov yeah, neither is correct. :/
 
@terdon thanks for the ping. I'd prefer to keep the 'joke' (as in 'getting sacked', never heard of the NY Sack Exchange) and explained so in a comment, but at this point I don't think I even care anymore.
 
@Rob I.... don't think so.
Oh, and I was right. lol
 
@Glorfindel news seems to be hitting everyone hard it seems
 
Rob
2:21 PM
Apparently not. 🐴👅
 
@bjb568 yes, this is bad
 
Dutch humor is under appreciated nowadays ...
 
@Glorfindel Fair enough. Although it means that Shadow was right. Again. This is getting annoying...
;)
 
LOL
When Shadow is right, it means things go wrong.
 
That. Or that the sun is on your left.
 
2:22 PM
No, you're on my left
Oh, now on the right
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard when SE lawyers get involved – it means things went, go, and will continue going wrong. Shadow being right is not a certain prediction.
 
it's bad enough that it's not even clear if we should complain or not
it doesn't look like complaining changes anything. We had half a thousand posts about monica and the only thing that got them to grudgingly relent was when we put up 20 grand too
 
Clearly the sun is out of the screen, because rene points at it.
 
user316129
In an ironic twist of fate, SE has managed to unite the community
 
On this, we don't really have grounds to complain, anyway. It's a private company, they can do what they like with their employees. We, on the other hand, are free to draw our conclusions about that company based on how they treat their employees.
 
Rob
2:26 PM
Sack Exchange
 
@Rob are they all in the line to the restrooms?
 
user316129
@terdon well said.
 
Rob
World record pillow fight.
 
I found Danny in there!
 
@terdon I do think we have grounds to complain. We're not just their customers, we're also their volunteers
We deserve a voice as real stakeholders. And stakeholders can complain when a company frantically stabs itself in the chest
 
2:31 PM
@ShadowTheBurningWizard That's nothing, I found Wally!
@Magisch meh
 
I don't care that they can legally do this. They don't get a moral pass from me because "duh corporations are profit focused". No.
 
Personally, I never really bought that argument. We dont' "deserve" it, we were promised it and mislead into believing they felt we were stakeholders. They clearly don't.
But either way, when it comes to such internal matters, we don't get a say. All we can do is be more disgusted by the company and vote with our feet.
 
Aren't they making a mistake even from a purely profit-centric perspective?
 
Rob
@ShadowTheBurningWizard If you need to use the restroom you have two hands, and no paper:
 
Alienating the people who give your site value seems clearly negative in the long term.
 
2:34 PM
@terdon we can also vote with our voice. word of mouth is a powerful marketing tool but that blade cuts both ways.
 
certainly nobody who cares about my opinion will give them another cent
 
@Magisch indeed.
 
@terdon no no, it's Clippy!
 
That's that silly microsoft thing, right?
I remember it.
 
2:36 PM
@Rob or maybe they all brought the paper from home?
@terdon "that silly microsoft thing"..... ROFL.... hehehe... haha.... dies laughing
:-D
 
Sorry, I haven't been a Windows user since around 1998.
No, 99.
 
Clippy hasn't aged a bit
Neither a byte.
 
argh!
OK, that was actually good. Awful. But good.
 
@bjb568 In the long run. But how long is that? There's a lot of great info on the network. Sure, it's getting diluted by the endless flood of rubbish questions and poor quality answers. But that could take several years before it has a noticeable impact on the network's overall reputation for quality.
 
@PM2Ring you're underestimating the work and coordination it takes to keep SO going
 
2:40 PM
I'm not so sure really, I have never really gotten an idea of how many people use the site in complete silence and will likely be completely oblivious to and uncaring about any of this.
 
For now, they hqve quite a large database of Q&A to rely on without putting too much work towards new content, and get tons of ad revenue
 
internet places can fade quickly. If a viable competitor springs up, it just now became a lot more likely it'll reach critical mass. Then they only need to import legacy content and offer a better community policy (even none would be better right about now) and SE goes the way of myspace in the span of a couple months
 
We can hope so.
 
Rob
 
@Gimby most people, that's why SE can allow itself such actions
 
2:41 PM
The competitor would have to scrape the current DB, in order to be at the very least a competitor.
Also hi
 
@Elcan there's a data dump
 
@Elcan Which is quite possible.
 
and the content is CC licensed
 
user316129
@Magisch I know I sound like a broaken record... "Tech Republic"
 
2:42 PM
Nobody and nothing stops a competitor from taking all of SOs relevant content right now.
 
@Rob why the duck sits on Andrew?
 
user316129
@Magisch which is why they're trying to retrofit licencing
 
Makes me wonder if they will someday try to un-CC the content, as illegal as it is
 
user316129
apply retroactively, I mean
 
Rob
Cuz he's an egg
 
2:43 PM
It seems that Joel and Jeff were wiser then they thought when they agreed on that fundamental design principle. Even though it will be their undoing, it is the best for people.
 
user316129
@Elcan I'm sure they will try
 
@Magisch wouldn't even need legacy content
 
They illegally relicensed to 4.0 without any legal consequence
So I doubt un-CCing will have any legal consequence
 
@MetaAndrewT. how dare you not being pingable? I see where you went! point upwards :D
 
all the silent users care about 1) answers to their questions and 2) nothing else. If a mass exodus of experts means {newplace} is now the easiest way to do that, they all go that way
 
2:44 PM
Just need to gank a few good devs, community team and funding. And grow slower
 
platforms keep deluding themselves into thinking they're irreplaceable.
 
The real problems will arise once the site is big, and needs money. It may just follow SE's path
 
Worst case, ask for donations, like Wikipedia does.
I'm sure many people will give money.
 
@Elcan you can only enforce civil laws by suing. That's how you enforce it. So software licensing isn't as much "this is illegal or that is legal", its "what are you willing to go to court over." If you aren't willing to go to court to enforce licensing, then anything they do is legal.
 
If asked nicely. But too late for that to SE, these days nobody will give them a cent, probably. I'd sure not give.
 
2:47 PM
and as they say, a law is only as good as its enforcement.
 
Wikipedia is following a path similar to SE, not sure if it should be an example
 
eh, wikipedia somewhat listens
 
JAD
@Elcan I think that depends. Once/if they were to start trying to enforce that "illegal" new license they might start to run into trouble.
 
@GeorgeStocker I doubt most people would go to court over messages on a website
Sadly
 
the community sanctioned them and took away their partial ban powers recently
 
JAD
2:48 PM
The reason they got away with it right now is that nobody cares enough to sue them.
 
@Magisch Perhaps. I don't know all of SO. Just the Python tag, which is a fairly popular tag. I know the quality there is dropping, and many of the old-time experts no longer contribute answers, or do so only rarely. I used to enjoy assisting the new answerers. But these days, I don't have much motivation for that.
Merely reading a random sample of the new Python Q&As can be depressing. But the helpdesk-oriented newbies are oblivious to that stuff. And the smart people with reasonable search skills are mostly able to find existing answers, despite the rubbish.
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard IMO, it's not so much fun... it reminds a bit of how children would change your name slightly to mean something mean and then call you that...
 
@PM2Ring eh - I often find solutions to prickly problems in old SU posts
 
I'd be curious to know if the recent issues hurt them financially, it would be a decent indicator of if the community 'matters' to them (despite them showing it doesn't)
 
Based on the direction they're going, wanting to silence discourse my removing meta and community criticism, it makes sense, from a business standpoint. I just am really disgusted by this direction, and especially their conduct when trying to reach their goals.
 
2:53 PM
i'd assume it cost them quite a few thousand bucks from thos of us with influence on product purchases recommending against going with anything SE offers.
 
Maybe, but I'm guessing that to most people, all of this drama is really behind the scenes. I doubt most consumers are aware of it, so SE might honestly get away with it.
From the words of @GeorgeStocker, "It's time to vote with your feet"
 
So you guys are saying… there could be a DevDoodle but with a bunch of content? : 0
 
@Tinkeringbell fair enough, so roll it back to make it final.
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard I'll do more tonight. I actually have some work to finish still, and ... I'm empty.
For now, I've dropped it a comment.
 
@JourneymanGeek I've learned lots of stuff on SO, from existing questions. I was using it for a couple of years before I got around to signing up. But I've never posted a question there myself. Some of the info there is relatively timeless. But some of it is well past its use-by date, and some of that stuff will become worse than useless without experts curating it.
 
SE doesn't want curation anymore. They've made it perfectly clear that they would prefer to have a higher member count, the higher quality content. It's their decision to make, and yours to dispute it, of course
 
looking for Block button just to make a pointless point
 
lmao, what a [word I can't say here, but it definitely fits who he is]
 
3:04 PM
it starts with a C
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard As the prophecy foretold, @JourneymanGeek ...
 
Ends with an unt
 
@ndugger Catamount?
 
Exactly
 
Rob
Ends with a c
 
Just post your MSE answers on Twitter at that point, maybe the'll end up reading them
 
@Tinkeringbell You ever feel naked burning disgust for someone?
this is one of those times
 
Rob
Begins with an unt
 
3:05 PM
@Elcan well, that one can't post on MSE
@Rob untec?
 
@Magisch Sure... but since it's mostly done for attention... perhaps not give it :P
 
@Tinkeringbell no I wont give it, but that doesn't mean I don't feel it
 
I really want to comment "You're still a terrible person" on his latest tweet
 
@Magisch hey hey, no naked burning things here plz ;)
 
@ndugger Nah, that'll give it attention. Especially the way Twitter works...
 
3:07 PM
@ndugger you can! On Twitter
 
Shadow's way is best... find the block button.
 
I already commented on his tweet yesterday saying he's a terrible person
 
Careful, though @πάνταῥεῖ got himself nuked on Twitter by offending/threatening @Trump.
 
but I don't need to attract any more heat than that from a psychopath
 
Rob
He could still be arrested
 
3:08 PM
you know what I kinda wanna say we should lay low on insulting people in this room but truth be told I can't summon the care in defense of him
 
@Rob Who? @πάνταῥεῖ or Trump?
 
lol, this looks so much like what I had for DevDoodle. github.com/codidact/docs/wiki/User-Privileges
 
@Magisch But you're prolly right, so...
 
Can we make an exception just for one dirt bag?
 
3:10 PM
Oh damn
 
@bjb568 you can probably help them a lot
 
No matter how mad we are, we gotta keep our heads on straight
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard I'll be looking into it.
 
journey is, as is the case most of the time, right
 
3:11 PM
My head was never on straight, you got like a splint or something?
 
@ndugger I have this big hammer that fixes most problems
 
@ndugger ask Shog, his head was always floating.
 
@bjb568 donate devdoodle ...
 
Noodle for your Doodle
 
Rob
@ShadowTheBurningWizard Correct, the first one
 
@rene It's already open-source. github.com/bjb568/DevDoodle : )
 
+1 ;)
 
@bjb568 Wow, that's the first time I see Node actually being used for server-side purposes. Cool stuff.
 
Isn't Node intended for server side stuff ?
 
Wow, there is some not-great code in that repo.
I was, what, 13 when I wrote a lot of it?
 
3:20 PM
@Elcan Surely, but that does not stop the entire world from using it to build Javascript dev tooling.
 
@ndugger It certainly looks that way. And the existing quality will continue to bring in the quantity of users for several years. Probably. But gradually SO will lose its reputation for quality info. And so if there are viable alternatives, people will choose those alternatives.
 
3:37 PM
I'm sure the timing is a co-incidence. Right?
 
Nobody cares, @feeds...
2
 
@JourneymanGeek coin-cidence
 
@JourneymanGeek can we at least symbolically move that feed post to the trashcan room?
5
 
That article by George is spot on.
 
@JourneymanGeek Because Stack Overflow specializes in team building...
 
3:43 PM
@Hitodama it is tempting
 
Since launching Teams nearly four years ago ... that includes this team I guess?
 
They certainly launched one of their teams...
 
@Cereal the CM team?
whoops, I thought you said, "unlaunched"
 
I hope this isn't because you guys' tolerance for grief from the community for unpopular (or rather, much criticized) ideas has started to wear out - and that it doesn't mean Team is on the shelf permanently, as it really seemed like an idea with potential. Sometimes, the community's reflexive rejection of all things "social" tends to throw the baby out with the bathwater - yes, it is a good thing to get to know other developers and what they do. It doesn't automatically mean the place has to turn into a social network where people share trivial silliness. — Pekka supports GoFundMonica Aug 2 '16 at 15:52
cough
;lots of coughing lately.
 
It's flew season
 
3:48 PM
@rene Could be the source of the error. The actual Teams product is not even 2 years old.
 
thought so
 
Someone should point those things out :D
 
@rene There's a "yo dawg" joke somewhere in there
 
But where?
 
@rene I'd say as a comment and on meta. Probably SO's twitter too
 
3:50 PM
When you sack your sales team so hard, you forget that the new product called teams isn't the old product, called teams...
 
Yo dawg, we heard you didn't like teams. So we're relaunching teams as Teams, so you can teem with teams while you Team
2
 
Can't blame the author. Only 10 months around. Doesn't have the history.
 
They work cheap. Fits the budget. They also listen to The Boss
 
@jcolebrand I forgot about the monkeys/moderators meme. That takes me back.
(just noticed it as your profile picture)
 
4:26 PM
I hear SO Teams integrates with M$ Teams; it's teeming with teams...
 
isn't it more of a... SO teams can export it's shtuff to microsoft teams
 
handwaving integration
 
1 message moved to Trashcan
@JourneymanGeek I got tempted :D
 
Good
That's what we have ROs for 😁
 
Make me CEO
3
 
4:43 PM
OMG IT'S FULL OF TEAMS.
 
teams that the avg user of these sites can't even use
 
Happy reading.
(TL;DR: interesting review from within SO, by a PM)
 
I think it'd be cool if they could be used for subgroups within SO, for free. as an example, the js room for a long time have used github to handle it's RO only discussions, discussions around how to handle situations, elections, demotions, etc, if such teams could be created for individual sub groups of users within SO i wouldn't be so against it.
But it's explicitly built for... well, not us
 
@Magisch I shouldn't but in a way I am kinda happy with you decision.
Well, have to go - later.
 
4:50 PM
Will see how the thing evolves.
 
Hah, someone got the star reference at least
phew, was feeling i was getting old.
 
0
Q: Sometime when i open chrome a homepage called bright start appears?

Vivek EdayourI'm using Macbook Air with Mac OS Catalina. A homepage called bright start appears someimes when i open Google chrome . I don't kknow where it came from .

I don't know how to point the user in the right direction, as it's not right for StackOverflow either
 
Just leave it. If folks can be bothered they will close and leave a comment
 
@ndugger I'll bet it's a Chrome extension. Send them to SU
 
or ask different?
 
5:03 PM
Oh wait, why do I care? Nevermind, I decided I don't care
 
Both will work
 
@ndugger because you're even bad at revolting
 
True
 
@ndugger Apathy: it's what's for dinner (assuming you still care)
 
I want SE to fail at this point, so I care, in a sense
 
user651518
 
Yes, I could care less
 
@JL2210-SupportMonica You have to have a Charcoal key for each room
 
Another one that bothers me is why people say "could of", instead of "could have"
 
user651518
Sorry, about to say "MY GOD, IT'S FULL OF BROKEN COOKIES!" I can't type in chat when it's enabled, either.
 
5:10 PM
@JL2210-SupportMonica You're still better off than that guy with the Chrome problem. My god, it's full of starts
 
Dude just has a virus
 
My money is still on a rogue extension. My in-laws are constantly installing them by mistake
 
I'd consider that a virus, but I have no idea what I'm talking about, so just go with it
 
breitbart?
 
Do you guys believe that SE will actually try to course-correct in the future? Or do you suspect that they will double down on this new direction? Is it the new CEO to blame?
 
5:15 PM
Nah. More like Google Ads not filtering crap out so you get some JS hijack
Happens on way too many sites
 
No, i believe they believe they are on the best course for the continuation of SO and their paid products.
 
I think I agree. I don't expect them to stop what they're doing, and hey, it might even work out for them, they're just going to alienate anyone concerned about quality on their platform, so it's going to be a money-making dumpster.
Oh well
 
user651518
I believe they are on the best course for their wallets so they're not going to stop. That's what happens when money comes into play.
 
@ndugger double down... all the way down.
 
the next iteration of yahoo answers
 
5:19 PM
We're already at the "take it or leave it" phase anyways
 
@ndugger I don't believe we can lay much blame on the new CEO. The quantity over quality thing started well before his time. I suppose that it officially started with the Welcome Wagon initiative, if not earlier.
 
@PM2Ring though the escalations have gotten worse since
 
It also made moderation considerably harder
Many of the problem seem way too localized
 
@MulliganReinstatingMonica well on meta, sure
 
i don't think it's gotten worse, they've just continued down the same path further and further. Naturally, as you're getting closer and closer to the end goal of hiding problems from your future customers, it will appear worse and worse for the people who are part of the community that's getting shut down.
 
5:24 PM
Where did my ingwaz go?
Before I was Mulliganaceous ᛜ Reinstating Monica
 
@user400654 Agreed. They are firing not one, but two additional people
 
"allegedly"
 
@ndugger yeah, let's not do the rumour thing
 
SE's lawyers must be glad to have interesting work, at least
I did say allegedly, lol
 
5:27 PM
Yeah, more that I've already seen where 1 conversation full of speculation about it ended up... And it wasn't pretty
That's the kind of rumours we're not going to be doing
 
I'm telling you, it's crab people
 
Maybe. Then they can at least serve as emergency food?
 
@ndugger Those from outer space?
 
Ew, no thanks. Crabs are basically ocean spiders. I don't eat disgusting shell-fish
 
5:28 PM
@JourneymanGeek Most definitely!
 
@ndugger Shrimp?
 
Ok, you got me, I do like shrimp. But no lobster!
 
Shrimp are good, especially with loads of garlic
 
Never had lobster, I must admit
 
5:29 PM
Lobster is even worse than crab
Crab at least tastes ok, kind of
 
My friend is already proud she got me to eat shrimp :P
 
Lobster just tastes like rubber bug butt
 
How did my username got changed
 
It's a conspiracy
 
5:32 PM
I'm once "Mulligan ᛜ Reinstating Monica"
Notice the extra symbol
 
probably those crab people
 
It's true
 
UTF8 support is dropped.
 
@ndugger Do I want to know how you know that?
 
that saves storage space ...
 
5:33 PM
I don't think the CEO would care much unless the business tanks. And that's OK, because a hired CEO trying to do community management would be a train wreck (just like a hired CIO trying to do it would be)
 
maybe there should be a transition time where spolsky and the new ceo are co-ceos
 
Usually you just consult on the board in cases like that
 
Repaired my username
 
@MulliganReinstatingMonica he somewhat did: joelonsoftware.com/2019/12/05/…
 
@MulliganReinstatingMonica snip snip
 
5:36 PM
I don't care for Joel, nor do I think he could fix the trainwreck that he started, anyways
 
joel is still chairman
the top dog
 
top crab*
 
top lobster?
 
top chef?
 
5:39 PM
No, and especially no to anything bjb says
 
Peterson intensifies.
 
@MulliganReinstatingMonica Joel's still on the board of directors. Bear in mind that Jeff wanted to build a repository of quality programming knowledge, but Joel decided that that goal had been reached, pretty much, so now it was time to answer every programming question. Jeff was never particularly happy about that...
 
All that matters is that everyone is happy, not that everyone is correct. Who cares if we write sloppy code that crashes airplanes? All we should care about are people's feelings.
 
That hurts my feelings
 
Same
 
5:44 PM
that injuries my feelings
 
your feelings don't matter
well
unless you fill out a survey
then they're a drop in the bucket
but a drop nontheless
 
They're only dropped in the bucket if you fill out the survey correclty
 
Facts are only true if they align with my personal narrative
 
so lie on the survey
take it daily
 
5:52 PM
comments are getting pretty nasty on MSE
 
Plenty of reason to be upset. It's hard to compose yourself when something you care about so much is dying. Not that I'm excusing the behaviour, as I'm guilty too
 
equal response to the actions taken
 
some of my comments are being deleted
 
Lots of mine were deleted, even ones that were "kind"
They don't want to house voices of dissent, for good reason
 
Comments are ephemeral. Sometimes mods just bulk nuke, rather than cherry-pick good ones to keep
 
5:59 PM
does meta have a comment archive similar to mso
 
So you're saying it's all the Moderators' faults? Get your pitch forks!
 
Was the official reply on the MSE post deleted? Could someone please screenshot it for pleb me?
 

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