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12:27 AM
@ShadowTheDragonWizard since the comments on that post are crowded and need pruning anyway....
Q: Should Stack Exchange switch to CC BY-SA 3.0?

mattdmCurrently, Stack Exchange sites use the CC BY-SA 2.5 license. There's a lot of content (not the least of which is Wikipedia) under the newer 3.0 version of this license. Content licensed under 2.5 is forward-compatible and can be used with the 3.0 license, but the reverse isn't true -- CC BY-SA...

A: Legal page says user content is under cc-by-sa-3.0, but other pages say cc-by-sa-2.5

Jeff AtwoodGood catch, I updated it to refer to 2.5 for consistency if nothing else. Not sure if the minor tweaks of 3.0 over 2.5 are particularly relevant to us, or not. edit: as of yesterday, we re-licensed under cc-by-sa-3.0.

I'd actually say it was less open than it is now ;p
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1:42 AM
1:52 AM
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4:56 AM
19 messages moved to Chimney
5:53 AM
@rene Already voted
6:43 AM
I'm always a bit worried if @Catija leaves another comment on a question I have been commenting on. Is it the tone of voice that I need to improve on? Or am I just blurry in my comments?
@rene Trying to add support. :)
Ah, thanks.
@rene no ava in your comments so no one knows you're blurry
also, except when folks are acting in that position, everyone is a normal user ;p
I can see the questions... there's 8 and 5-6 are deleted and half of them read like attempts to ask the same question in different ways, none of which seem appropriate to Academia... essentially "How do I stack up to others in this field?" or "What classes should I take?"
Ugh, I need to sleep.
Oh that one :/
6:48 AM
It is a nice circle: Reddit says Academia is not good, posts off-topic stuff, post get closed, deleted. Goes back to Reddit confirming Academia is not good.
I ... don't really know how to combat someone calling a site "toxic" just because their questions were closed. None of the comments I see were mean and many were attempting to help.
Yeah, it is a no win. Don't bother, we can't change a whole subreddit, nor should we try.
Maybe it is worth to have a toxic canonical on meta? A post that explains what is toxic and what not.
honestly - in the current climate?
I don't see that going well
I guess dupe voting a toxic post against a FAQ that says no, you're toxic might not fly, yes. I agree. Bad idea.
Well, at least until stuff settles down a bit
I suspect SE could adopt a dog charity and there'll be folks complaining they were not consulted over what species gets funding
6:55 AM
a new comment arrived ...
Too many :/
@JourneymanGeek dogs? At least make it a Cat charity. Or flowers.
Precisely ;p
"Why SE is toxic?" -> "We are trying to help, but that doesn't mean any questions can be helped..."
@MetaAndrewT. and the solution to toxicity isn't piling on more toxicity
7:04 AM
So better to ignore them and move on...
@MetaAndrewT. not always an option though
1 hour later…
8:18 AM
Spam today is pretty shameless
1 hour later…
9:25 AM
@JourneymanGeek that was a quick deletion. I was on my way to offer them this search ....
@rene I expect it to be someone selling their used clothes.
How close am I to the truth? :D
far, far away
Nor does it involve any real metaphorical dirty laundry
and salacious research
Not the slightest bit of scandelous publishing malarchy either
9:40 AM
@ShadowTheDragonWizard I know someone who made a living through university and doctorate by selling used unwashed clothes and buying new ones.
@Magisch uhm
I have one question but I don't really want to ask it.
@JourneymanGeek Hey, she got a PhD without any student loans, while coming from a poor family to boot
@JourneymanGeek boring
@JourneymanGeek now you must ask :D
@Magisch yup it's real thing. It was described pretty good in Orange Is the New Black, think season 2 or 3.
@Magisch I think he answered it
It's quite like selling your body, just without actual body being involved. :P
9:45 AM
And yanno what? If it got her where she wanted to be? More her power
@ShadowTheDragonWizard and tbh, that's not one of those things I'm judgy about as long as everyone's free to choose.
@JourneymanGeek so the question was "Is this real?"
got to respect the dedication and creativity
@JourneymanGeek agree
@ShadowTheDragonWizard naw
I don't think @Magisch has any reason to lie about something like that
I'm not particularly concerned what consenting adults do in their free time, and I'm uninterested in scrutinizing why people buy those, and I understand why someone would sell them if it gets them through a tough spot financially
9:47 AM
@JourneymanGeek sure, but it could be something really really rare and minor. It's not. :)
It's a huge market.
I mean there is almost no end to the weird ways you can make money
@Journeyman so what question you wanted to ask?
@ShadowTheDragonWizard Its not important ;p
:( :( :(
@Magisch true, but one must be careful not to get dragged into things that cross the legal lines. The slope is slippery sometimes.
(legal or unsafe)
@ShadowTheDragonWizard by selling their laundry?
9:51 AM
@JohnDvorak if they're minor then yes it's most likely illegal, by some long forgotten law. ;)
@JohnDvorak or laundry in potentia.
You mean people lie about it and send clean clothes?
@ShadowTheDragonWizard the way she described it sounded like it was a great deal
Now that would be dirty
if someone offered to pay me several hundred bucks everytime I chose not to do laundry I might
9:55 AM
@JohnDvorak haha, awesome
It does pose a moral barrier though
@JohnDvorak how?
Its just proper capitalism
like what? what moral responsibility of mine is it to scrutinize how adults spend their money?
@Magisch I suspect 99% of the market are males looking for female clothes, so you're out of luck. ;)
if someone wants to pay me for a (to me) worthless product who am I to judge them for it?
9:56 AM
No, not judging them, but somebody might judge themself for allowing others to do things that they themself don't like.
Then you don't
The ability to choose is the thing that actually makes it ok
If someone is getting pressured into such an exchange then it becomes immoral
New job idea! Toilet Helper: someone who help people in toilets, and not just people who really need it due to medical condition. :P
Point taken
@ShadowTheDragonWizard probably a thing
@JourneymanGeek doubt it.... but who knows... :D
9:58 AM
and yanno what? As long as they're adults and know what they're doing? None of mah business
@ShadowTheDragonWizard true, but I'm trying to imagine the situation
I'm saying if I had the opportunity, I most likely wouldn't say no. Doubly so if it meant getting through uni without debt. I'm 100% not judging people who do
@Magisch and she probably got a significantly better quality of life cause of it
But there are risks. Keep in mind your address is exposed this way.
(when sending package you must give the sender's real address, at least here.)
Sales pitch: like TOR, but for physical goods
So the one buying the clothes can stalk you IRL which might get bad.
10:03 AM
Can you get it sent to a P.O. box at your local P.O., thus hiding your physical address from the seller?
10:14 AM
Since my friend is living there, I used their address instead. Now I feel bad...
@JohnDvorak no no, the other way around. The seller is the one at risk here.
@MetaAndrewT. for your friend being stalked by someone asking for their clothes? :D
@Magisch as impartial DPO this one is for you to answer: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/389322/…
10:34 AM
@ShadowTheDragonWizard never asked or heard about that angle but I assume parcels would be send via PO box or anonymous mail delivery service
at least that's what I'd do
@rene I think not
Too bad ;)
@rene People are probably going to be mad for saying this but...
there's too many folks being armchair lawyers and its one of those things that I feel does more harm than good
Yeah, I agree with that.
@JourneymanGeek a lot of people wield gdpr like a cudgel
@Magisch well and the fuss over the licence change
10:46 AM
I was somewhat surprised on the anger over the license change
I mean like, yeah. Sure. Principle and all, but we're talking about cc by sa 3.0 -> 4.0. it's even still the same license, just with some updated legalese.
do we really need to raise that
this Mac hates 'z' and prefers 's' instead :/
British spelling rulez?
@MetaAndrewT. Z is Dead
Mac and z's... always problematic :P
@Magisch I'm not sure its about the licence change
or just about it
Its people being broadly angry
10:50 AM
@Magisch I don't care if it's better, I care for not being told a major change is going to happen.
Told and discussed
@ShadowTheDragonWizard honestly - its worth considering its happened twice with even less of an announcement
@ShadowTheDragonWizard What's there to discuss about this?
And would would the discussion even be?
"We're changing the licence on our webpage"
It's like a new announcement will be "Hello folks! How are you? We removed the voting arrows on all Stack Exchange sites. Please let us know if you have any feedback. Have a good day. (Of course we won't reply back, but you can still write your feedback)"
@ShadowTheDragonWizard that's different
10:53 AM
not really.
This is a very strange hill to die on
@ShadowTheDragonWizard Well, if the EU passes some kind of nice law that says up/down votes are incentives for people to become addicted to life online, and bans them... and SE complies... what's there to discuss?
@ShadowTheDragonWizard what actual difference does the CC version have?
I'm still licencing my posts to SE under a CC licence.
@JourneymanGeek no idea, but I do know it's big issue for many people who do know the difference.
@ShadowTheDragonWizard why?
@ShadowTheDragonWizard or at least claim to
10:54 AM
There were many comments about it, all gone now.
@ShadowTheDragonWizard major change?
@ShadowTheDragonWizard I haven't seen a single lawyer... and even the people that do claim to know mostly lean towards 'I like 4.0'.
@ShadowTheDragonWizard eh, we've tried our best to have as many comments preserved as possible
There's a reason I posted an answer rather than a comment though
SO - SE has had, over time...
cc wiki, cc 2.5 and cc 3.0 licences
with the licence change happening with almost no notice
what's the real difference now?
@Magisch I haven't seen anyone complaining about the actual CC 4.0 license. The issue is that SE hasn't presented a clear argument on why they are allowed to change the license this way. And if the armchair lawyers are right and SE doesn't have a clear legal way to change the license, this introduces a lot of confusion and trouble
Why were they allowed to change the license from CC Wiki to CC 2.5, then CC 3.0?
10:56 AM
@MadScientist there's a very small difference between armchair lawyers and a mob with pitchforks though...
@MetaAndrewT. The reasoning that makes most sense to me is - its the licence that the content on SE is presented under
@MadScientist I don't even care to be honest. CC BY SA 4.0 seems to be mainly rewording for clarity, some non applicable new legalese, and official translations. That is such a nothingburger if the process is right or not is irrelevant to me
as opposed to the licence we let SE use our content under.
which feels backed up by the TOS
I would hardly care if the kebab shop I get my kebab from changed the name to Kebab now capitalised, regardless of what procedure was followed or not
I'm not entirely convinced folks really get that though
@JourneymanGeek My question was a response to counter Mad Scientist's, not to support it :/
10:59 AM
@MetaAndrewT. I was assuming so tooooo
@MetaAndrewT. If they aren't allowed for 4.0, they probably weren't allowed to do that earlier, just nobody paid attention
I view licenses as a means to an end to convey my wishes as author
@MadScientist other than that the TOS did not explicitly state the version at any point
to that end, if the new license still does that, I don't care
SE has introduced ambiguity due to the way they have handled the license over time, and ambiguity in this kind of legal issue is annoying
11:00 AM
As per the old tos...
> You agree that all Subscriber Content that You contribute to the Network is perpetually and irrevocably licensed to Stack Exchange under the Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike license
I suppose the critical question is what the the means
Interestingly CC does explicitly say what version of the licence they are covered under in their tos - but I suspect while SE can alter their TOS, folks would be unhappy with them saying "version 4.0 or better" there
Hence this being essentially a brick wall
let's relicense to MIT instead...
I still maintain we should all just move on from this
any minute wasted on discussing this utter nothingburger are 3 minutes wasted that could be spent doing more enriching or productive things
well, personally, I don't care at all, so it's not wasting my time :)
@Magisch Let's discuss plans for the weekend?
@Tinkeringbell even more path of exile!
11:07 AM
even more? Oh wait... you're on a vacation, right?
Sounds fun :)
Either going to arcade for once after a while, or... hibernating
I'm going to finish two little crochet teddy bears, and do some reading. I may also go for some Stardew Valley :)
@MetaAndrewT. Hibernating sounds fun too!
Yeah, too much mobile "social" game and less going outside, I need to go outside more...
@Tinkeringbell not anymore. Back today
@Magisch Ohhh. So how was the vacation? Lots of path of exile?
11:20 AM
@Tinkeringbell yas!
freezing pulse totems for the win!
No idea what those are XD I was already happy I recognized 'path of exile' as 'game name'
@Tinkeringbell my character fights by placing wooden sticks on the ground which throw wads of ice at the enemies
Mine (in Stardew Valley) just frantically waves a sword or club around hoping to hit something! :P
11:56 AM
That's a good idea
I always feel a bit helpless doing it though :P
gaming in general
Borderlands 2 has a new DLC....
Its a really old game, and I never got around to playing the DLC. The third game is coming out sooooo
I mean. that edit is quite obviously political in nature and rightfully rolled back. — Kevin B 18 hours ago
I'm imagining @KevinB to be like Jeff Lebowski going "That's just, like, your opinion man"
@M.A.R. isn't that all of meta? ;p
Uh, he's not how I'd describe meta folks.
We're more like Walter
12:04 PM
uhm. Walter who?
(I really need to watch that movie)
@JourneymanGeek Then do!
I have a monumental backlog of things ;p
@JourneymanGeek His friend, played by John Goodman
the guy with the gun?
Yep, that's us alright
12:32 PM
@M.A.R. I prefer this guy:
Crap, Wordpress is blocked
Is that Samuel Jackson?
Yup how you know??
oh URL says pulp fiction
He's moody alright, but have you seen The Big Lebowski?
@M.A.R. three times
Walter is funnier
12:33 PM
Meta ain't funny though. :D
Obviously . . . I mean, Tarantino wasn't going for pure funny
Nah I still think most of meta is walter
12:35 PM
Another one! Hopefully not blocked? @M.A.R.
@ShadowTheDragonWizard Kardashian big.
This one works
@M.A.R. too big
I prefer smaller guns
Yeah, four T's. Definitely 4 T's.
I prefer Travolta in Battlefield Earth
It complements his weirdness beautifully
12:36 PM
hmm... think I saw it, but totally forgot if so.
Book was awesome though.
Jules is more like Servy, Makoto and Hans Passant.
Jackson's character's name
@ShadowTheDragonWizard Heh, it's one of the worst movies of all time
If you wanna get some laughs, it's a great watch
@M.A.R. good! Might do it. :D
Sometimes when a movie doesn't try to be good, it's even better.
12:39 PM
Most bad movies I've seen were bad because they tried to be/look like something they were not.
(hard to explain)
@ShadowTheDragonWizard Well, this one is just inexplicably dumb
@ShadowTheDragonWizard case study: Cats movie
@JohnDvorak too short
Cat can't possibly play piano for 90 minutes
The only sad part is everyone in it are good actors. The protagonist is the sniper from Saving Private Ryan!
@M.A.R. that looks -1000% dumb (it overflowed, becoming negative), I agree. :P
12:41 PM
The premise of the musical was that they couldn't afford to make a mediocre musical. It either had to be royally good or royally bad, and the idea of having a plot at all came very late into production.
@ShadowTheDragonWizard That's exactly how you'd explain it. Pretentious movies that take themselves too seriously, ignoring how dumb their idea or plot is.
@ShadowTheDragonWizard Well, just for comparison, this one is 2.5/10 on IMDB and The Room is 3.7.
@M.A.R. exactly
Those scores rarely mean anything, at least for me. :)
Here's a good movie!
annoying gif
very very annoying gif.
uBlock -> Enter element zapper mode -> click the cat
Or we could talk :P
12:52 PM
We're almost there!
It's already halfway up my screen now :D
@ShadowTheDragonWizard Personal Care Assistant is projected to be one of fastest-growing occupations in the U.S. at least.
Not one of best paying, though.
@Magisch It's enriching in terms of things it brings to light. A lot of people did not realize that the rights they grant to SE according to TOS go beyond CC-whatever.
E.g., SO is under no obligation to give credit to the authors.
> you grant Stack Overflow the perpetual and irrevocable right and license to access, use, process, copy, distribute, export, display and to commercially exploit such Subscriber Content
Uhm. That's an interesting interpretation of it
12:59 PM
with no strings attached
The second TOS license, quite different from CC
In certain cases SE doesn't even attribute content creators
deleted accounts, not-last editors...
Yes, and they are free to do so in all cases.
@Tinkeringbell small screen! :D
@404 but is it available for anyone? Think it's meant only for those who really need it, what I meant in my "job idea" is for people who want it for, well, other reasons. :)
@ShadowTheDragonWizard True... but it's gone now!
1:06 PM
Not yet for me
But I suspect my screens are "bigger"
Bart has the biggest glasses, you got the biggest screen. Fair.
@ShadowTheDragonWizard As long as you're paying for it, I don't see why not.
@M.A.R. can you see this pic?
And it shouldn't cost a lot considering the median annual wage of $24K
It's of a new party in Israel which is based on AI and running in the elections.
(the people aren't real.)
1:16 PM
Great idea.
Yeah, but just a gimmick.
Skynet for president.
We also got Pirates party with people dressed up like, well, pirates. ;)
Think they got 100 votes in the last elections.
My best two guesses were a movie poster or a political ad. These two are awfully similar.
1:18 PM
But then again, a real estate agency can be advertised by a smiling lady standing before a hot air balloon - why not by a movie poster?
And guess what those people believe in? @John
Cannabis, taxes and doctors practicing yoga.
What do they believe in actually?
The headshots are too boring. They should go Matrix-poster style.
With guns, trenchoats and exploding pillars?
And sunglasses
1:22 PM
... or just a dark room and a green projector set to Chinese poetry?
@JohnDvorak yes! :D
The words ... just ... flow.
(well, mostly the cannabis, they want to make it legal.)
@404 what about retro?
My first impression was cheap ramen from USSR :/
This. Unsure if an ad or food packaging.
1:26 PM
Or perhaps a stamp
Here's one from 1961
@JohnDvorak well we did have communist party for long years.
What remains from it is going to be wiped out next week, probably.
1:47 PM
We also did have communist party, but it didn't end well...
Not a reason not to try it again, in another country.
There are still a lot of countries left.
Too many, arguably.
I nominate the USA, just to fix the healthcare system
@ShadowTheDragonWizard can we just admit that bibi reports to putin and move on?
@Mgetz nah, Putin isn't good to us.
He sells advanced weapons to our enemies... :/
2:01 PM
@ShadowTheDragonWizard oh it's not about being good to you. It's about the russian electorate that keeps bibi in power.
Israel being in a constant state of conflict is good for him
Nope. In our case, it's totally the people.
Our people don't need any push from Putin.
I know many people who vote for bibi.
So Putin can just sit down and relax while we create our own conflicts all by ourselves. ;)
@ShadowTheDragonWizard Because they actually support Likud or because they dislike everybody else?
@Mgetz neither. They think bibi is good for Israel.
And don't care or don't believe that he's corrupted.
@ShadowTheDragonWizard 😵
That's the face of all those who don't vote for bibi ^
2:04 PM
@ShadowTheDragonWizard you sure cannibis isn't legal there!?
It just gets worse, police took cannabis from cancer patients who bought it from other countries.
From an outsider's perspective, bibi is putin's <word not safe for chat>
@Mgetz puppet?
right hand
@ShadowTheDragonWizard we'll go with that
2:06 PM
Anyway.... I really don't think bibi gets any help from Putin
Or need it.
And when it comes to represent us in the world he's perfect. But he got corrupted by the power over the years.
@ShadowTheDragonWizard hard to say, the GRU runs PsyOps internationally. I'd be highly surprised if they didn't run them against Israel
@Mgetz doubt it... but like I said, even if they do, it has little effect here. Bibi has enough followers who will vote for him no matter what he'll do.
@ShadowTheDragonWizard I don't, the GRU wants to distract and keep the world focused locally instead of on what Russia is doing
@Mgetz fair conspiracy. :)
@ShadowTheDragonWizard you can say that but I have reasonable cause to believe not just tin foil
2:22 PM
Bibi use this strategy himself: he keeps bringing new topics all the time so the focus won't be on his own actions.
(e.g. something with finding nuclear plant in Iran, hidden as a carpet factory.)
He could bring it months ago, but waited with it until, well, elections.
2:49 PM
I was told there would be a zombie apocalypse as a result of net neutrality being... controlled by elected representatives of the people rather than an unelected body of bureaucrats? Goddamnit, where's my zombie apocalypse? I've been preparing for YEARS and I'm turning blue in certain parts. — Won't Jan 9 at 0:52
Still waiting...
Want to visualize the internet without Net Neutrality? See medium.com/@lex.sheehan/net-neutrality-illustrated-b4d23d9d5‌​320l3x Dec 16 '17 at 2:10
The best Medium article I read in a long time.
3:04 PM
Ryland Goldstein on September 12, 2019

Rest Parameter

Import Over Require

Array Element Find

..... is that a working onebox I see before me?
also hm
funny to see SO doing the whole "guest blogger" thing. That's roughly how all the blog overflow sites ran
I don't think blog overflow sites were second-hand copies of someone's Medium posts.
(dev.to in this case)
3:20 PM
@JourneymanGeek Still looks to me like it's only a list?
@Feeds surprisingly good(?) summary...
it's all in how the article is constructed. If it's copy pasted in without proper paragraph tags, the onebox isn't going to pick it up properly
nah... the current one-box needs list item, so...
you can look back at previous so blogs that were oneboxed properly and see the difference
FR: create a tl;dr list table of content of the blog article at the start of the post
so, the question is: did the content writer write in HTML, or in markdown, or...?
4:47 PM
I wonder what's to stop people from intentionally failing audits more than 30 days apart to get the review bans to get halved and halved over and over again, so that they're an infinitesimally small length?
I mean, if a moderator issues a manual review ban, it can be for any length, and subsequent automatic review bans consider that to be the length of the "last" review ban
But how can moderators notice and issue such a ban?
They can tell pretty easily by keeping a close eye on you, mr. Chaotic Neutral
1 hour later…
5:56 PM
@MetaAndrewT. Not a list tag specifically, just a nonempty html tag.
Could be <p> text </p> if they were present.
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