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12:08 AM
status-completed
@StackExchangeTornado Devealte?
 
12:26 AM
@SonictheAnonymousWizHog cheers
 
12:54 AM
MFW there's a slashdot article where someone actually read the TFA and is more accurate than it....
 
1:15 AM
@M.A.R. part of the problem is we kinda only want the super super off topic stuff off
we could downvote I guesssssss
 
 
1 hour later…
2:34 AM
!!/watch thuongthuong\.vn
 
@SonictheAnonymousWizHog You don't have code privileges, but I've created PR#3290 for you.
 
2:55 AM
Morning... again...
 
 
1 hour later…
4:03 AM
 
 
3 hours later…
6:33 AM
9 messages moved to Chimney
 
I was about to do that ...
 
I was bored
 
:D
 
7:06 AM
:E
 
morning
 
yup, morning
 
7:30 AM
AFTERNOON
 
 
2 hours later…
9:48 AM
@JourneymanGeek WOW HOW DID YOU KNOW YOU SAID THAT MESSAGE EXACTLY AT 12:00
 
@M.A.R. because in Iceland...
 
10:04 AM
@M.A.R. MAGIC
 
10:33 AM
Grr.
 
@M.A.R. <span>
 
11:09 AM
@MetaAndrewT. No, notspan
Do you doubt me?
 
 
2 hours later…
404
1:00 PM
@404 I now recall they already did exactly that, back when SO entered Top 50. It was at one of the meetups.
What is the most useful website on the Internet? Probably not the one where such questions are posted.
 
eh.
I just played with chocolatey for the first time...
I probably won't touch ninite again
@404 be patient and understand that not everyone knows what you do... then... close as too broad
 
404
1:16 PM
I'd rather skip the first part.
Come to think of it, I skip the second part too.
My plan for fixing SE has three simple steps: 1) Don't worry. 2) Be happy. 3) Repeat 1 and 2 as often as needed.
 
2:04 PM
TinyGiant's account got nuked after the ban, eh? Wonder if that was by request. :/
 
whatwhere?
@canon typically - well... users in any reasonable standing don't get their accounts nuked by us
(mods that is)
 
2:26 PM
@404 Only thing I can think of was their pet peeve of, "How to" questions being on-topic, but getting closed all the time.
Could also just be the collective exhaustion with where SE is going.
 
404
Whatever. Deleting one's account is a perfectly Normal thing to do.
A kind of spring cleaning.
 
eh, not really
 
@404 ah
 
Also, I'm entirely disengaging from that feature request for chat changes. Should've known better in the first place, I guess.
 
@fbueckert I feel ya man.
 
2:34 PM
@JourneymanGeek I feel bad for you, because it's mostly happening in your response.
 
Which reminds me...
@fbueckert lie down with the doggos, wake up with the fleos.
that's to say, Its not something I didn't expect
 
@JourneymanGeek Interact with someone who insists downvoters are haters, yeah, that's par for the course.
 
Well I didn't know that at the time ;p
But I do get folks can get.. enthusiastic about their pet ideas
I'm half certain he sees chat as a place comments go to die
and I don't entirely blame him
 
To a degree...it is.
People need a different level of investment after it goes to chat.
 
That's not what chat is
its something chat's used for ._.
 
2:39 PM
To be fair, comments are used for things they're not supposed to be, either.
 
yup
I think SE is pretty cognisent of that ;p
 
Work with the tools given, even if the crowbar wasn't really meant be used to drive in nails.
 
When one's only tool is a hammer, one will hurt themselves tightening bolts.
And I don't agree with "work with the tools given" when it comes to comments.
SE has the 'right' tool. They forgot where they put it ;p
 
What is the right tool, you think?
 
they experimented with renaming comments and better guidence on IPS
seemed to work
 
2:43 PM
For main site usage, sure.
I'd say it doesn't work for Meta, but, then, Meta's kinda of kludge tool jammed into the same framework.
 
I can't disagree
but MSE is kinda that oddly shaped thing that no one knows what is, but seems useful.
And its got the wierd problem of both having its own 'insiders' and needing to be the voice of a wider community.
 
It's a cross between a ticket system, help desk, and a classic forum for those, "I think this is a problem, but don't know how to fix." type problems.
 
well, kiiiinda
 
Which generally means yelling into the void, and occasionally receiving a response.
 
FOlks feel it sucks for the former, not everyone agrees on a second, and the moment people call this a forum...
 
2:46 PM
It's a bad way to really surface community consensus, but so far, the only way we got.
@JourneymanGeek Referring to Meta, specifically.
 
@fbueckert well part of that is growth. Part of that is some of the stuff that needed to grow didn't
yup
 
Kinda analogizing it to the required tags; , etc.
 
And even when stuff gets fixed, people sometimes do not know...
or don't notice (I see a lot of status completed the last few months)
 
@JourneymanGeek That's an age-old problem with bug fixes; how do you communicate it? Usually only the one that submitted the ticket knows about it.
And nobody reads patch notes.
 
@fbueckert well part of the issue is ... kinda the odd structure of SE
@fbueckert well we have folks who put in a meta question, that may or may not get picked up and put into a ticket...
but there's no good reason we need to get informed of a ticket.
 
2:50 PM
@JourneymanGeek Not disagreeing; just pointing out that communicating changes in any system leaves something to be desired.
 
yup
I know
I work helldesk in a multi-vendor enviroment
 
Even feature requests here in my small office (like...maybe a dozen people) have a problem with people knowing what's changed.
Feature request comes in, gets approved, I let stakeholder know when changed, and there's more or less where it dies.
 
but folks are kinda used to it here. Or were.
 
To a degree, I agree with people being used to being in the know.
I think it was more a byproduct of SE having a product, and the community being used to being in the drivers seat when it came to changes and improvements.
In essence, we were the stakeholders.
 
@fbueckert well - least from my perspective, that's important
and that folks feel that they are not stakeholders is a problem
If we're talking about new folks and growth - who're they going to see first?
 
2:55 PM
@JourneymanGeek I'm going to go out on a limb and say most of the disconnect is that we're no longer stakeholders.
 
@fbueckert well - in a lot of ways, we haven't been for quite a while
 
And changing that has led to a lot of disillusionment.
@JourneymanGeek Laissez faire management always leads to disgruntlement when the reins are taken away.
 
@fbueckert eh, I think it goes a bit deeper
 
And it can't be disputed that SE's been pretty hands off for quite some time.
 
Maybe its from my perspective as a non SO person - but a lot of it comes from "We'll have what we need to make things better" ...
and waiting and waiting, and well
and it isn't really that we don't have the reins - a lot of smaller sites still run pretty much on their own.
Its that communication between the company and folks has scaled... badly
 
2:59 PM
@JourneymanGeek I see all that waiting as people finally taking things into their own hands and just making things work.
 
@fbueckert or nagging a lot
 
So SE being hands off has led to a culture of self-sufficiency and perception of being ignored.
 
@fbueckert well - maybe, but we don't want people telling us what to do
we need folks backing us up when we need stuff
and well, being parts of those communities
Which would probably scale badly now, but shrug
 
@JourneymanGeek I agree with that entirely.
 
But honestly? Where I'm sitting now? All I can do is bug folks in the parts of the company I talk to slowly and hope it trickles up ;p
Many of whom probably hopefully see it too
 
3:04 PM
What I see is the community figuring itself out, and then having SE take an active hand in things again, in a direction the community doesn't agree with, and that's led to this entire kerfuffle.
 
@fbueckert eh, and not backing us up a lot of the time
 
Like I've said before, being less hands on leads to being disconnected from the community, and backlash when you try to change it.
 
I don't trust some of the voices that go "We want to change things here but we're not going to engage the community at all"
I don't trust the more extreme voices here too. But we can't get the moderate, calm voices heard until they get mad.
 
I see that as a byproduct of feeling like they're not being heard.
 
Naw, it just works.
But its not how I want things to work XD
 
3:08 PM
I get that contempt invites automatic dismissal. But when you have someone still here, trying to be heard, I believe that has some merit to it; if you're trying to retain your core userbase, then listening to those people, even if you decide not to adopt their ideas, is a good idea. These are the people that still care. It's when silence falls that you know you've lost them. Communication is a two way street, and users expressing frustration and contempt signals that it's breaking down, if not totally broken. — fbueckert Aug 23 '18 at 15:25
There are some users who care greatly, but are frustrated with actions taken, and it shows in their interaction with staff.
 
I was frustrated
But well, I also kinda politely yelled a lot.
buuut they also rolled out a huge change, and made a few big mistakes.
and if folks were like "Hey, so this is happening, but what do you guys think"
off the record
 
@JourneymanGeek How do you do this off the record in a way that's still open to feedback?
 
3:29 PM
@fbueckert probably on chat ;p
as opposed to say hangouts
Or hell, maybe townhall chats. Those worked well ._.
That's frustrating :/
"Oh they actually did this and this and this and those things oh wait"
@fbueckert as opposed to... well I guess formal user testing or meta
and I'm usually more coherent on chat than in person at 3am in the morning XD
 
3:46 PM
No worries, man.
Coherency is a fleeting concept most days, anyways.
 
404
@Feeds [title text] How is malediction different from femalediction?
 
4:03 PM
the latter is "unforgivable curse", which comes later
 
@404 It's when it's said by iron
Speaking of communication breakdowns between community and staff: I was trying to point them out long before they happened, and nobody believed me at the time; now see what's happening.
@JourneymanGeek I asked why Town Hall chats were discontinued, and have yet to receive a response.
@JNat Cross-site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/16531302/…
 
5:10 PM
@SonictheAnonymousWizHog When
 
@M.A.R. I believe you shivered at that point
Well, it was more or less indirect, through subtle things like my post on how to get official responses to meta questions, and my pinging staff to make sure things were responded to, etc.
 
No I was gonna sneeze but I didn't
Now my nose is on fire.
It's your fault for not letting me sneeze.
 
To be fair, though, at the time, I had effectively been frozen in time between November 2013 and December 2017, and so when I rejoined the site I was expecting that official responses would be more like they were in 2013 (fast and frequent).
At the time, SE was more in a "what would Jeff do" state.
 
Today, it's deep in the "what would any other corporation do" mode
 
It could be because the investors are putting pressure on SE to make money
Proposal: high-rep users can purchase ownership shares in SE for cheap.
 
5:18 PM
That would create even more dissent when SO inevitably refocuses even more towards quantity
 
6:01 PM
@404 is it?
 
404
6:31 PM
Even with the flurry of recent activity at Where should CMS questions go to?, this question was viewed 116 times in the (almost exactly) 10 years since it was asked.
 
 
2 hours later…
404
8:39 PM
Possibly the first time an already-extended election failed on a fully graduated/designed site? webapps.stackexchange.com/election/4
TBH that site is mostly a description of how web apps worked in 2011. Its value for the internet is between negative and zero.
 
Not if you're a historian
 
unless you count the first election on WebApps, which we didn't fail but would have if we'd had the same criteria we do now
 
Part of me thinks how the future history book will function considering how many things get done, and then another part of me thinks whether we're even doing as much as before
Where's my flying car, or super fast spaceship?
 
helicopters exist. Turns out they're not sufficiently better than horses.
 
404
@M.A.R. xkcd.com/1259 In 60 M years aliens will know humans only by the posts on Worldbuilding
 
8:45 PM
@Shog9 They're way more awesome than horses though when crashing.
So epic. So much CGI budget.
 
I donno. A crashing horse is pretty impressive
 
So Michael Bay
@Shog9 The Last Samurai was a bit weird, now that I think about it.
Awesome action in the end, and Hans Zimmer is awesome. But does it beat a circular helicopter crash?
With some floating heads, if it's an R rated movie.
Few Shog numbers.
 
well, shoot, if you want cinematic horse-crashes + decapitation... Add an over the top jousting scene
 
The Revenant. OK that is awesome.
 
404
Jousting would be on topic at Martial Arts but there isn't even a tag for it.
A much neglected tradition.
Tor went 0/2 in its search for mod candidates, and got a site-wide system notice: tor.stackexchange.com
I don't remember WebApps having a notice like that during the last week.
 
8:56 PM
Asking black hats to moderate black hats
 
It's really hard to find a decent set of full plate armor these days, I would guess
and I don't think a kevlar vest would do you much good.
 
404
Does Amazon not onebox anymore? Sigh
 
Oh, neat.
 
404
9:21 PM
Not that neat, actually. It's not eligible for Amazon Prime.
 

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