Tavern on the Meta - 2019-03-21

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12:11 AM

@MSOGA Jon is an awesome guy. However, his observation doesn't negate the observation or insinuation that non debugging questions are being discouraged by design, or that questions which would attract multiple answers are being discouraged by design.

2 hours later…

1:56 AM

Can we have a future of poll in chat?

Or something like a poll site where user login with SE can cast vote...?

2:18 AM

@MSOGA AHAHAHA, well, maybe now.... but in 2012...

2:31 AM

@MSOGA as someone who allows ads on SE, I've never seen them too

4 hours later…

6:58 AM

Hi, I think I hit upon a weird behavior of SEDE, and I needed help to validate/invalidate it as a bug before proceeding. The following select statement:

select top 10 Id, Id as [Post Link], OwnerDisplayName, OwnerUserId, Score

returns blank owner display names. You may check the query [here](https://data.stackexchange.com/chemistry/revision/1012756/1251078/practice-set-1)

The following line works:

select top 10 Id, Id as [Post Link], OwnerUserId as [User Link], Score

but I'm curious why the previous doesn't.

The MCVE here is trying to get the top 10 most voted questions on chem.se

7:47 AM

wikipedia means business apparently

they want to protest against article 13 and thus have disabled their site

8:05 AM

@Magisch Huh? It works fine here...

Which is good, I need to read a few of the sources from an article tonight :P

german wikipedia is down today in protest against the new copyright directive

Oh wow...

Dutch and English ones are still up, wondering if they'll do something similar.

tbh, several millions of people have physically protested against this already. It's most likely going to pass and was always going to pass anyways. This is a multi year multi billion euro lobbying effort by publishers and rightsholders

^ And that's why I usually don't meddle in politics ;)

...today's realization: I have no friends.

Today is a day where you traditionally gift food to your friends. I don't really have anybody to give to.

Oh well.

8:26 AM

You actually have friends, but you might not realize it...

@Mithrandir We are your friends, I don't need food, you can donate to the food bank.

8:45 AM

My closest friend is the farthest though

Journeyman Geek

:/

1 hour later…

Journeyman Geek

9:54 AM

→ 44 messages moved to Chimney

3 hours later…

12:35 PM

This mint tea smells absolutely intoxicating

!!/tea

@Bookends brews a cup of passionfruit tea for @Bookends

@Magisch mint tea is good :-) Do you have fresh mint in there?

@Tinkeringbell it's not brewed yet, I was just smelling the dried leaves

they have a special mint plantation a few towns over and you can order bags of dried leaves for 3.75€ each. It's really good

This stuff is like human catnip I swear

@Magisch That's dried mint leaves?

12:45 PM

yeah

Sounds nice! :D

Can you grab some? Put it in a bag under your pillow ;)

i'm actually seriously considering finding some mint essential oil extract and using it as fragrance at home

Not quite sure why but smelling intense natural mint just feels great and is really pleasant

I love using that kind of stuff when I have a cold. Just soak my pillow in it, then go to sleep.

I usually use an essential oil that has peppermint, eucalyptus, star anise, lavender, rosemary, clove and menthol ;)

It makes everything smell great :D

I wonder is that unhealthy to use regularly

I don't think so...

12:52 PM

cause if not I might just buy a large bottle and use it for recreational good smelling apartment purposes

sort of like a deodorant, only actually good smelling

Hahaha

There are youtube tutorials on using essential oils to have your house smell fresh, and using them in reed diffusers.

So I guess it's doable, though perhaps I wouldn't recommend too much, it might start to hurt your head after a while ;)

When even a dried bag of mint smells so intensely good, I don't want to know what even a drop of essential oils will do

Sterling Archer

1:08 PM

Good morning :)

... no. Not so much.

Immortal Player

What do you all think on highlighting feature for all the answers or even answers? We can have highlighting on sentences with highest number of highlighting from users, as in kindle files?

*even questions

Sterling Archer

@Catija :(

Immortal Player

That might allow seeing all the sentences which are to be not missed...

Sterling Archer

make it better!

Immortal Player

1:23 PM

Think on it, BYE

Sterling Archer

I'm not allowed to think before 11am 😬 court ordered

@SterlingArcher boys are out of school until Tuesday.

Sterling Archer

Say no more

I'll have the national guard en route as soon as I can

user302202

2:14 PM

If Megan is replacing Joe (as it seems from the job title), I propose to rename TeamDAG to TeamMEG.

user302202

I think it both looks and sounds better. Also does not distract me into thinking about directed acyclic graphs.

@ImmortalPlayer Please no... it looks very annoying to me. I've never seen it live as I don't own a kindle... besides, we already have markdown (bold, cursive) and edits. If something really needs highlighting for e.g. better readability, it can be done.

Journeyman Geek

Sounds like something worth trying out on a userscript first

I'm wondering what the added benefit will be, what it should be used for and what people eventually will end up actually using it for.

someone should tinker with it

2:21 PM

Perhaps, but not me ;) I have actual work to do :/

In some weird way, the code doesn't work.

@GaurangTandon OwnerDisplayName is only set on Posts when OwnerUserId isn't - that is, when the post is unowned (for whatever reason)

Here's a version of your query that lists only posts that are unowned: data.stackexchange.com/chemistry/query/edit/1012986

And here's a version that tries to pull the display name from the Users table if available, or falls back on the OwnerDisplayName column if there is no owner: data.stackexchange.com/chemistry/query/1012985/practice-set-1

user302202

It might be more enjoyable to read a book when someone is standing over your shoulder, pointing out important sentences.

user302202

But not for everyone.

update: the mint tea tastes even better then it smells

I may need to order a couple of pounds of this

Where could I ask about the dangers of overexposure to essential oils?

Journeyman Geek

2:38 PM

0_0

@Magisch Some kind of anti-vaxx page? :P

On a more serious note, just google and pick an organisation that looks trustworthy?

I dont trust myself with the oil of this mint

I just checked - the same company selling the excellent tea also sells the oil. I feel if I get it i'll be putting it on everything in the apartment

@Magisch fromnaturewithlove.com/library/eosafety.asp

So at least don't use them on anything that comes into contact with skin, I guess.

Sterling Archer

@Tinkeringbell are you one of those SE employees that never sleeps

@SterlingArcher Wish it was. That would mean double paychecks :P

I'm a mod, not an employee :)

And right now my code is compiling

Which it does most of the day...

Sterling Archer

2:43 PM

Wait I'm confused

I thought blues in here were SE

not anymore

there are 4(?) appointed community mods on Meta.SE

Sterling Archer

ooooooooohhhhhhhhhh

Tinkeringbell, Journeyman Geek, ChrisF and Monica Cellio

103

Q: Please Join Us in Welcoming Our New Meta Stack Exchange Moderators!

We're really excited to announce the appointment of three new community moderators to Meta Stack Exchange! I know this might come as a really big surprise to some, and I can't wait to talk about it, but let's not delay the introductions any more. Please welcome ChrisF, Tinkeringbell and Journeyma...

discussion meta moderators announcements

Immortal Player

@Tinkeringbell: Markdown and edits might not allow users (other than owner of the post) to express on what sentences seem to be allowing the attainment of utility asked in the question. It might be like tldr, and might allow looking into all the important sentences without reading everything; and might give greater probability for important sentences to be highlighted than the less important ones.

Sterling Archer

2:44 PM

that's meta

@ImmortalPlayer Sure. Now hammer that shut with a method to make sure people actually use that for what it's meant to be and not to draw penises in text by underlining specific stuff? :P

I think if stuff needs a TL:DR;, people can add that or propose that in comments, and even point out which part they'd like an OP to add to the TL:DR;.

And I've certainly edited posts with markdown, especially long walls of text.

Just point out that if people don't like it, they can go practise in the Sandbox and then improve upon the base you gave them ;)

Basically that... for every feature, there is a possibility to be abused (yeah, I'm a negative person). Now, the question is: how to moderate community-driven highlights...

You get 100 users highlighting an interesting & important fact, great! Then there are 5 random users highlighting random things...

Immortal Player

And we can have sentences with negative highlight votes too...?

...wut? highlights are votable?

Immortal Player

By vote of a user, I meant to say it as to be highlighted as important by the user...:)

@Tinkeringbell: I don't know whether I am understanding properly or not. Do you think this feature could be misused? How?....And we can have only those sentences highlighted in the site, with higher number of user highlighting?

2:58 PM

anyway, the real problem is, the highlight will always be very subjective. While 100 users can "upvote" an important highlight, those 5 random highlights apparently are also important... only for their hightlighters, but still, important!

Perhaps not outright misused, but I'm wondering how we're going to communicate to people what highlighting is supposed to be used for, and how we're going to make sure they're using it for that purpose.

Granted, one of my pet peeves already is people that don't seem to do exactly that with votes.

Immortal Player

Evolution or what is important, might express on what would get highlighted...

What is important to you is not the same as what is important to me. But both are important from their own POV

Immortal Player

Yeah...but only those sentences with higher user highlighting will get highlighted in the real visible site?

user302202

Keep Medium features on Medium...

3:02 PM

So... what about my highlight that is deemed not important to all of you? :(

Immortal Player

"Granted, one of my pet peeves already is people that don't seem to do exactly that with votes." Still understanding

user302202

Meanwhile, the site about chained IF statements ran into an unexpected bug:

user302202

-3

Q: Bug: Total number of users is too low

With surprise, I've noticed that the user count in SE.AI is very low. According to the statistics page https://stackexchange.com/leagues/658/year/ai in the last year only 28 users have increased their score by more than 100 points. The total amount of users is higher, but i would guess that per a...

Immortal Player

@Bookends: We can make it highlighted only for you :)

@MSOGA this has the wrongest idea

user302202

3:03 PM

But... look at the numbers: "the European continent with 1 billion inhabitants, China+India with together 2.8 billion people and the United States which has 8 million people in New York alone."

user302202

That's a lot of people.

user302202

All somehow manage to live their lives without participating on AISE. How is that possible?

user302202

@ImmortalPlayer That's a job for a browser extension, like chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/weava-highlighter-pdf-web/… and others.

user302202

Or for Gab Dissenter =)

@MSOGA I'm sorry. But as an AI noob, neural network makes more sense than thought network :P If people are interested, they will learn the words ;)

3:08 PM

This is what will look like from a hypothetical on stirring a highlighter

user image

Too yellow!

Sterling Archer

My coworkers tried to explain what a quantum computer was to me and I still don't get it

Looks like one of those times you're studying hard and decide to highlight almost the entire page.

Sterling Archer

There go my AI dreams

user302202

That looks like a page from the textbook that I assigned to a graduate student to read this semester.

3:09 PM

@SterlingArcher It's a computer, but quantum. So a bit isn't only 1 or 0, but can be both (I think)

user302202

I eventually convinced him to put down the highlighter.

Sterling Archer

@Tinkeringbell apparently the bits are every state at all times, which makes no sense to me

Like the results are more or less a statistical average of outcomes?

@SterlingArcher But that's why it's called quantum. So only the smart people get it ;)

IQ: Intelligent Quantum

wasn't quantum computing about a bit being 0, 1 or something else? like more states then 2

user302202

3:10 PM

Um, Quantum Computing is different from Artificial Intelligence. For example, only one of those has a catchy abbreviation.

@Magisch Yeah, a bit can be 0 AND 1, instead of 0 OR 1

user302202

Although both are sponsored sites (and the only two sponsored SE sites).

Both are sponsored?

ninja'd

Sterling Archer

user image

user302202

Also, there are no Spielberg movies about Q.C. that I know of.

3:11 PM

Usually if I want to understand something complicated, I use wikipedia @SterlingArcher. It does a pretty good job at miffy-language and has links for other complicated words :) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_computing

Sterling Archer

I'll give it a shot, but I'm not as smart as I appear (which is also not very)

Since it got starred, looks like we have to learn QC from now on...

Or any other interesting but way too complicated thing :P

Sterling Archer

this is worse than when I had to learn what quaternion math was

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternions_and_spatial_rotation .

Immortal Player

@MSOGA: No :) Dissenter might be what is expected here. If the feature is helpful, it might be of use to have it in the site, for greater usage and the expected results....@Bookends: We might have algorithm to highlight only certain sentences per space...

3:14 PM

I feel like the proper solution to wanting more highlighting is to just buy used textbooks.

Immortal Player

:)

@SterlingArcher I ~~was forced to~~ had a chance to learn about quarternion when doing final project related to... VRML

Sterling Archer

Ahhh cool! I had to dabble in it because I was doing satellite orbit modeling, and I still don't understand how the math was relevant to it

or use this Word's feature...

How to Create A Summary Of A Document In Word 2007

Sterling Archer

@Shog9 write a book that's 100% highlighted. Problem solved, every word is important.

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

3:17 PM

What's the proper etiquette to request a duplicate target change as a non-badge holder?

(I flagged for a mod but apparently I'm not supposed to flag mods for this: it was declined with the canned reason that it doesn't require their intervention)

Sterling Archer

Comment on the post and hope?

or waiting for the Tavern Effect

comment @ the dupe voter

assuming they're a badge holder

Sterling Archer

I bet it was Kevin's fault

All those revenge votes are messing with his head

Immortal Player

Oh...highlighting might become complex with every edit of answer :(

3:23 PM

i don't think i've received a revenge vote in a while

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@KevinB Doesn't work if others were also involved in the closure (only if the hammerer was the only one who closed)

Immortal Player

*edit of highlighted tex

t

Sterling Archer

@KevinB don't worry buddy I got you

3:45 PM

@ShadowWizard gone

@SonictheWizardWerehog appears to have been taken care of in the meantime

4:02 PM

Hey guys. The featured photo shows up in reduced size on the Photo SE webpage. The rules allow featured photos with width up to 375 pixels, and the current photo uses that width. But the webpage has the sidebar width limited to 300 px (CSS px, but still), and there's some padding, so the photo is displayed in 268 px width.

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

The old design showed the featured photo on the top

Is this deliberate? Because if it is, then we'll have to change the required dimensions of featured photo suggestions.

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

But then SE decided to do away with custom designs for sites and have each site on a standardized theme

@SonictheWizardWerehog Yeah, I know, that's why the rule was that the height must be exactly 210 px, but the width is variable between 211 px and 375 px.

4:33 PM

I actually just bought 2kg of that mint tea from the shop

user302202

We've established that mint tea is a gateway drug to essential oils.

user302202

Spam seeds are usually more nebulous, this one has pretty concrete specifications.

@Magisch that's a lot

That'll last you at least a week ;)

user302202

At this rate, new questions on metaSE should be automatically closed, to be reopened in the rare cases when they are on-topic.

@Tinkeringbell its good tea

user302202

4:36 PM

At least, new questions by rep 1 users.

I know myself this tea is good enough ill go through 2-3 cans a day

@Magisch if it's still good after you used up about 1kg, and you still like it ... Then it's really great tea

@MSOGA I had a proposal a while back on one site's Meta that all questions should start out On Hold.

@Tinkeringbell even if not, two other people in order processing drink it all the time too

so this will get used up one way or another

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

1

Q: Custom Question Lists: Pre-launch Update

We're really close to launching custom question lists and we're extremely excited to be in the final phases of fine-tuning the back-end notification mechanism and finalizing all of the UX components. If you haven't been following along, here are two things you'll need to catch up: Custom questi...

discussion announcements custom-question-lists

4:48 PM

are they entirely usable without the left nav?

ah, looks like it's not gonna use it at all, nice

@Shog9 thanks! that helps. especially the second sede query :)

user302202

5:07 PM

Navigation on the left, navigation on the top, navigation on the right, navigation in the footer...

user302202

"Don't Box Me In" Stan Ridgway & Stewart Copeland

user302202

Disabling left nav by default would remove 1 of 4 sides of the box.

MEE the setup wizard

5:56 PM

@Tinkeringbell Normally I would do that to, but today my Wikipedia is all black (protest against EU copyright law)

@MEEthesetupwizard German? Or Tsjech?

MEE the setup wizard

@Tinkeringbell German

I heard about it... Feels like a nice gesture but one that in the end won't make a difference

MEE the setup wizard

Probably not

It's still a nice (and in my opinion totally appropriate and important) gesture.

user302202

Only a few of us remain, those who were lucky to survive the repeal of Net Neutrality...

6:09 PM

@b_jonas sounds pretty deliberate; I'd suggest requiring images be 268px or 536px wide for hiDPI

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

6:22 PM

A similar thing was done to the English Wikipedia to protest a proposed U.S. copyright law in 2012

user302202

6:41 PM

The Ides of March tweet from @SE was not about coming together to stab in groups... "No need to sign your posts" -> 5 likes including Jeff Atwood, yagmoth555, and Tinkeringbell.

MEE the setup wizard

@MSOGA I had a Latin exam that day ;)

user302202

My PhD defense was on that day, though not this year.

@MSOGA Hey, just trying to help that account get some steam :)

MEE the setup wizard

@MSOGA Probably because that could not be called very welcoming ...

7:50 PM

→ 21 messages moved to Chimney

MEE the setup wizard

There are 4 more clarification questions left for tag removal. Shall I end the burnination now?

> I want to propose to change this massage to:

@MEEthesetupwizard 3 left

MEE the setup wizard

Nope, 2. I removed one too.

IT IS COMPLETED

USERS WILL NO LONGER BE ABLE TO ASK FOR [CLARIFICATION]!

user302202

8:39 PM

Hiding left nav by default (Monica's answer) is probably a non-starter: UI must be consistent with SO, and hiding left navbar on SO would hide the Team button.

Maybe we should put it in the middle, to replace comments (and posts)

@MSOGA Not so much that as that unregistered users don't have preferences they can set. We need them to be able to find those links and hiding them in a hamburger by default is horrible UX.

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