@Tinkeringbell XD

@Hitodama Sharepoint in general is a, "destiny hates you" event.

@Stevoisiak depends if the franchise survives next Thursday patch.

@Hitodama A mirco-transaction filled mobile game isn't enough to kill a series

In the same way that Mario Kart Tour won't kill Mario Kart

@Stevoisiak It's a little embarrassing when a major player like Samsung does cargo-cult style copy & paste from SO.

@PM2Ring I'm less surprised when a major player does it, because there are many more cooks in the kitchen

It's a lot easier for individual contributions to get overlooked

@Stevoisiak ^ see this

@Stevoisiak Fair point. But still, I have to wonder how something like that manages to slip through code review.

@Hitodama I read about the 2 subscription services, yes

@Stevoisiak then you saw the part about the warehouse.

@Hitodama As I said, that's not going to kill the series

which obviously isn't suspicious at all in a game that had unlimited inventory already for clothes and such.

@Stevoisiak maybe. But the common theory right now is that they are turning back on the "no microtransaction or other paid nonsense in the Switch game" claim they made before

I... Don't think that would happen?

Animal Crossing Mobile is F2P

the Warehouse specifically just REEKS like "poke bank for Animal Crossing"

AC Mobile -> paid warehouse -> AC Switch

What advantage would an additional storage have over an already unlimited storage you have for free?

Either they will cut of the "unlimited" storage for not-paying player... or the warehouse has another benefit.

And the most probable one is to transfer stuff to the Switch game.

in which case, the switch version risks to be "tainted" by items you can only get by paying in the linked mobile game.

considering how you needed to use the mobile Pokemon GO to get an exclusive pokemon to send back to the Switch GO Pikachu/Eevee game....

having to do the same with AC doesn't seem improbable right now

anyway, only a few more days and we will know what the update will really bring. Right now I am very suspicious and I don't even play the mobile game.

@fbueckert Okay, and what happens now?

@rene So far, business (or court, I guess) as usual.

If they do declare bankruptcy, I will see what options are available.

I could use some nice office chairs or desks.

LOL

That said, I sued both their local company, and their overarching one; I think the overarching one operates outside of just my province, so I may have the ability to recover even if the local one goes defunct.

so, the smoke detector bot checks comments and answers for keywords/sentences that can be problematic and reports them in chat automatically? Clever.

Its basically a third party spam filter

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi only post bodies, titles and usernames

@fbueckert I have the feeling this isn't over on the 6th of December

Does it operate site-wide? I can imagine quite a lot of tuning must have gone into it to prevent it flooding the chat.

@rene Pragmatically, probably not. Optimistically, I get a default judgement, and I get to go enforce it.

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi it does run networkwide, handling all sites. It does have a queue and sometimes it does get backuped a bit due to load.

@metasnail Yeah, I know

I sometimes even empathise with their point of view

But you can disagree with how SE handles specific things

and still try to work for your community - especially if you feel that folks aren't officially doing a good job on that front

in fact, I feel part of my 'duty' as a MSE mod is to try to feedback when things fail

People have different definition of what constitutes "better". SE has all the right to pick one, but that doesn't mean that those disagreeing want to see the world burn.

(granted, some certainly do)

So I can disagree with how SE is handling the Monica situation, and how that's causing more damage, but also work to minimise that damage in terms of the folks here.

If that means pissing off a few people shrug We do what me must because we can.

> "We do what we must because we can" - Ah... Portal quotes!

@metasnail actually that's also a function of how folks see change happening

I hear a lot of talk of "upsetting the status quo"

While I think change has to be measured, considered and gradual, with folks keeping an eye out for trouble

@bobobobo I specifically wanted to know whether you're for threaded comments on every site, or only the metas, or only the main meta-meta

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi I think you can look at a lot of the answers under "what to do next" questions and get a general idea of what people think of doing

@JourneymanGeek that sounds like something the company must have been thinking when they started this

@user1306322 "What to do next"?

@JourneymanGeek I like that. I mean, first they tell me I can have whatever I want. And then all of a sudden, BAM, "you're in the army now". How is that fair? Bastards. ... ah ... you're not talking about the band, are you?

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi "where do we go from here" or something, there have been numerous posts like that

hello

o/

how is everyone

Hello

meh

New Avatar

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi check this list, it should have a link to one of those posts meta.stackexchange.com/a/334345/183800 and part 2 meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/…

@user1306322 maybe but I try to at least only annoy a few

Thanks

Right now Meta.SE is the only outlet for people to register their disappointment and continued concerns about SO Inc governance. I'm not saying "Don't moderate meta.se", but I am saying that if you are stringent about moderating the topics on Meta.SE, you'll take away that release valve and things will get worse.

@JourneymanGeek it's just a bit funny how the ideas are basically the same but the effects are veeery different :p

I kinda like the metaphor of putting out the small fires resulting in a bigger much worse forest fire later

@GeorgeStocker honestly? If we don't, we may lose the folks who are trying to be constructive. It's damned if we do, damned if we don't. So might as well do things on our own terms, to our best judgement until we either get kicked out, or common sense prevails

no update after that :I

@GeorgeStocker is that a threat? I've kinda seen enough of those lately. MSE isn't here to keep the drama going. MSE is here to constructively discuss network issues and solutions. Honestly, if you want a release valve that badly that it's okay for you even if it actively hurts and wears out others...I recommend notepad++

so what's new

I've been avoiding meta so I'm not sure what's going on

Practically, we are here and dealing with the worst of it cause it's the right thing to do for the community, not the company. This is not a void for shouting into

@Tinkeringbell @GeorgeStocker HEY calm down

Just like SO isn't a help desk

heh

@KevinB You got it ;)

It's a place with a purpose. If I wanted to sit back an do nothing, and let the place burn to the ground, I wouldn't have asked for my diamond back.

i see the bickering is still a thing.

@Gwideon I'm sorry. It's a point that needs making, because like Journeyman said, it's driving away the people that do want to be constructive.

#success

@Tinkeringbell it's fine I'm just trying to keep stuff from blowing up

I'm not a mod and I'm losing patience with the "why was my comment on the post about deleted comments deleted" posts. (did you notice? ;-)

@Gwideon I suppose not everyone has settled on a rational way to go about improving the situation, but I say let people figure it out

@metasnail Yes. That too.

valve release? it's not a theory, they announced it yesterday

@Gwideon twitter.com/valvesoftware/status/1196566870360387584

@Raedwald it's an old problem on meta, writ large

Valve release?

new half-life

yup

finally!

valve can finally count to 3

I think it's gonna be a "New Vegas" situation and then "Fallout 4" some years after

What would be a constructive way to deal with the situation?

we'll see

@JourneymanGeek Except most of them are implying or downright accusing mods of censorship or of their opponents of dishonest organized flagging

@ShadowThePrincessWizard access where?

@Raedwald yup.

@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica ask on meta or in chat what people think is a good way to <insert good things here>

@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica approaching both sides with empathy while trying to understand where they're coming from then offering objective criticism based on their arguments not their character.

there have already been a couple questions and proposed courses of actions

@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica If you figure that one out, lemme know too. We've been brainstorming about that behind the scenes and lot... A start for me would be to not have rumours everywhere, to not have questions focused on the past but on the future, and to not have comments drag the past into that anyways.

@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica folks are unfocused. Everyone wants to make a scene and keep escalating

Woo! A Microsoft update introduced a bug that corrupted Access queries!

IMHO: If you are sad one of your comments was deleted.. it should have been a question, an answer, an edit, an up-vote or a down-vote.

@Raedwald Yes.

@ShadowThePrincessWizard done

I'm honestly kinda tired of personal attacks being a common thing

@Raedwald I think you could rephrase it better: if you think your deleted comment had enough value to be a post, you should post it (otherwise it's a bit victim-blamey or something, idk)

@Raedwald well yes, and some with good reason.

I would like to re-hash a popular comment from user fixer1234, when he says that it is not productive to frame dissent in a manner that anything not 100% compliant with how one side views things is by definition disrespectful.

... or "denying existence".

How about we only talk about the past in the future?

And then we make a room called the past, where we can talk about the future?

I kinda half-assed a management lecture about positive messaging, I'm not sure I'm doing it right but it seems to have a better effect on my phrasing

@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica heh. We should probably freeze that room now it has served it's purpose

Are personal attacks a common thing? I haven't seen any recently... i'm sure there's been a few deleted, but it's certainly not "common"

anyways. I've already expressed my opinions before on stuff so I'm gonna shut up

Talking about how to go from here can go here. It would probably make for a nice change :)

@KevinB true there are less now but um yeah there were alot when all of this started

@KevinB yes, and I think different people have different thresholds for personal attacks.

can't really help that when people feel any discussion of a given topic is a personal attack.

lots of people calling alot of other people idiots and the such.

@KevinB depends on how wide you draw 'personal'... But there's still a lot of x vs y going around, with x talking harsh about y and vice versa

like disagreement?

i mean

@KevinB let's just say some comment threads have been particularly nasty

Threading would be really helpful in here. @metasnail, I don't think that was in response to you

@KevinB why are you implying that neither of us can handle disagreement. I can understand disagreement what I don't understand is the need to attack someone's personal character based on where they stand on a certain issue.

sorry let's move on

it's not worth turning this place into a mess

yes

@metasnail snails have feet?

Surprisingly, it seems to me that the Tavern has been more civil and less toxic than MSE.

@Tinkeringbell Could you help me understand what part of that came across as a threat?

@metasnail Huh. TIL ;) I always just referred to it as 'bottom' XD

I'm just gonna be happy when toxicity is gone. by the way are we still getting trolls

i hope we aren't

@GeorgeStocker That last sentence reads like 'Im going to cause even more trouble then I already do if I can't use MSE as my release valve'.

@Gwideon it's a bit better now I hope, but no guarantees yet, sadly.

I don't think @GeorgeStocker has been causing any trouble...

@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica Good, that means moderating this thing still works a bit.

@Tinkeringbell It's what I believe will happen based on my past experience as a moderator; regardless of whether we want it to be true or not, taking away people's agency will cause more people to lash out.

that's good. I um kinda read all of the articles that um caused all of the trolling and um yeah. didn't know people could think so little of other people.

makes me lose faith in humanity

It is, of course, up to the Meta.SE moderators what they moderate; but it would be... counterproductive to believe that closing questions related to recent events will have a positive outcome.

@GeorgeStocker Hence the provided alternative of notepad. Can lash out as much as they want there without hurting others and perhaps even come up with something good in the process too. MSE is not for keeping drama running and running and running. At some point you have to bite the bullet and be the wall in front of the people that are using stuff for what it's meant to be used for.

goodluck dot gif

@Gwideon simply because i spend all day on meta, and i don't see these attacks people keep talking about. How is it that you're able to stumble upon them and I can't? I think it's more likely we're seeing the same arguments and coming to different conclusions.

@GeorgeStocker I don't need good luck at this point. I need firmer shoes.

meta isn't so active that it's easy to miss something happening

@KevinB I haven't been on meta in a bit but on some of my posts I have gotten several nasty comments. those are thankfully gone but I choose to strike my name from one of my posts because of the crap I was getting from some very very awful people. I've been condescended to, attacked, and called names simply because I choose not to identify as either male or female.

@metasnail I don't think so :(

not because of my arguments.

agree to disagree...

bbl

@metasnail \o see ya!

@Gwideon on the other side, I've been called names because I ascribe to a socially conservative vision of the world, and I've tried to explain our motivations.

I've tried to be understanding but it's hard when you receive a ton of vitriol

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi I'm not saying that both sides of the argument aren't guilty of toxicity ( believe me they are) i'm just lamenting the fact that toxicity is a thing on meta in general.

seeya @metasnail

It's hard to be constructive when some people's reaction to disagreement is moving the Overton Window so much to their side that other people's views cannot have any representation.

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi thus harming those they purport to represent, may I add

Yep

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi I'm not advocating for that. In fact I condemn that kind of behavior but both sides are guilty of it. When that happens it shows a lack of willingness to show empathy which is the opposite of what I've been trying to advocate for. I want to understand where people come from but I want to be understood as well.

so yeah

@metasnail I suspect no

I appreciate the sentiment @Gwideon.

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi I honestly thing this whole thing would've been solved if both sides didn't instantly become defensive and where more willing to listen to each other and engage in a constructive dialogue. if that had happened less people would've been hurt and people could've reached a compromise faster so we could actually get back to dealing with the real problem which is the fact that we both want more from SO when it comes to accountability and responsiveness.

anyways I'll shut up

mostly cause I don't want to cause problems

@Gwideon ^ And that is what happens when there's too much release valve and not enough constructive. Don't worry, you were doing fine :)

Brrrr.

20 minutes until my bus... and it's freezing here.

oof

It is... 12°C, to be more precise, and I've got a t-shirt and a light sweatshirt.

not fun

Yeah. That about sums it up.

@user58 Yes indeed, that's "freezing" by Southern California standards

I don't like the cold and I tend to underprepare for it.

It was shorts weather this morning when I left, but now...

so um i'm kinda not sure what I can talk about. gonna go to my default. Anyone seen Tron: Uprising?

sorry nevermind

Try the Movies SE chat ;) I don't watch many movies, personally

So nope, haven't seen it. Did you enjoy watching it?

It's not a movie but an animated series and yeah It's really freaking good.

Conversation in chat rooms ebbs and flows. Sometimes it goes faster, and sometimes slower, like when I'm on one of my semi regular bus rants.

🚽

i'm a bit confused

And that's a toilet.

why a toilet?

*big shrug* don't ask me

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

okay

I'm under the impression that Kevin has a script that randomly posts either a toilet or the word "meh" at random intervals.

that would be interesting

╮（╯＿╰）╭

I thought it was an AFK statement with too much information.

close

@user58 Same. It just seems to be random. Or at the very least intentionally vague. Best to just not give it any meaning I'd say.

Why post toilet when you can post 🦄

@doppelgreener That one's too small ;)

Shucks. Someone else fix it then, answer is fine.

@Tinkeringbell That's not much bigger!

@user58 True, but at least it's not tiny either ;)

@Tinkeringbell even better

@Tinkeringbell 😍

That is outrageously smol

@doppelgreener :) I like doing outrageously small stuff while I can ;) there's plenty of time to be an old grandma that can only work with bulky yarn, hopefully XD

:D

I'm thinking of trying to make a present next... a corner to corner stitch (which can be used to make something like pixel art) with an 8-bit pokemon, as a keychain. Fingers crossed it works out ;)

How's that different from a classic cross stitch?

cross stitches are embroidered, not crocheted ;)

ah

I have software for diy cross stitch designs :p

That's often very handy to have around ;) And that can definitely be used to plan a crochet pattern too ;)

Btw, cross stitching is the backup plan for when crochet doesn't work here ;)

🍕

cstitch.sourceforge.net

I'm looking at a profile of a newly active member of SO and they have asked a single question which got one upvote and one downvote, but their reputation is showing as 11. Shouldn't it be less?

Oh, I figured it out, the downvote preceded the upvote. Nevermind.

Why was this very POB/unclear question reopened?

because people are trying to cause a scene

why else?