Tavern on the Meta

Journeyman Geek

1:05 PM

@mag I'll sleep normally when I manage to get off the shift work

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@JourneymanGeek "normally" means during the day? ;)

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowThePrincessWizard 10.30 or 11.00 to 6.30 am

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@JourneymanGeek oh that's good

Journeyman Geek

or the equivilent

Also, an office with actual light

I'm literally spending a good chunk of my work hours in a small, florecent lit cube

Shadow The Princess Wizard

:(

Hitodama

1:20 PM

oh, nice.

This seems like a great opportunity to redirect some of the hate.

Here, let's see who remember this "great" Microsoft campaign.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

Campaign to what?

Hitodama

@ShadowThePrincessWizard work anywhere, anytime, do not sleep, do not have a family, do not have a live.

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Oof, that'll wreck your sleep patterns! (I know, because this office is like that too and I always sleep worse on Tuesday nights somehow :/)

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@Hitodama oh. Office.

Hitodama

@ShadowThePrincessWizard "Work for us like the pathetic lowlife expendable resources you are. You are less than human, work for us so that we can live the life you won't have"

you know, that kind of stuff

Shadow The Princess Wizard

1:28 PM

@Tinkeringbell Tuesday is the day when companies should release big changes, yeah. (SE stopped doing that at some point, of course.)

Tinkeringbell

Honestly... Tuesdays are for headphones and music because the office is so loud ;)

Hitodama

@ShadowThePrincessWizard the kind companies call "responsibility, collaborative approach" and such

Tinkeringbell

@Shadow Twitter must be fun for you right now? There's a hashtag about toilets and one about farts trending ;)

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@Tinkeringbell lol noticed something, didn't check yet :D

Tinkeringbell

It's also International Men's Day... Woah.

Mari-Lou A

1:34 PM

Please cast a vote to reopen meta.stackexchange.com/questions/338655/… The question deserves a thoughtful and considered answer. The circumstances are similar but not identical. It is worth pointing out the fundamental differences between the two cases.

2

Hitodama

@ShadowThePrincessWizard Because you know, now working during your kids first big soccer game, keeping talking at the phone during a dinner with friends, working in the bathroom, working while you should be sleeping.... All of this is perfectly fine and you should be proud of this!!!

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@Mari-LouA I refrain from reopening mod-closed questions unless there's a REALLY good reason.

@Hitodama well, that's what many people do anyway, sadly.

Bart

@Mari-LouA meh, it seems we're capable enough of discussing our own network issues without having to draw comparisons with another network.

terdon - stop harming Monica

Yeah, I really don't see how that's on topic.

Rubiksmoose

Or what answer we can possibly give that is really value added.

What it really needs is a wikipedia expert to chip in, not an SE one.

terdon - stop harming Monica

1:38 PM

It is isn't asking about SE, but about why some other incident could be similar to this one. We have enough baseless guessing going on without extending to baseless guesses about off site stuff too.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

Existing answers there are fine.

Rubiksmoose

I disagree. When the top answer admits to being not at all familiar with the greater part of half the question, that's an issue with the question IMO

terdon - stop harming Monica

I'd delete that outright, myself. Just blatantly off topic and not helpful. The only thing that can come out of it is drama.

Bart

"The whole world is going there", "History rhymes" and "Old boys network" don't seem stellar input to me which justify reopening that question. It's just another post to express grievances. We have plenty of those.

Rubiksmoose

The one thing I could possibly see to salvage the question would be to change it to ask what we can learn from the Wikipedia incident and how we can apply it here to help solve the situation. But I wouldn't recommend it as it would invalidate all the answers at this point as well as still being very iffy.

terdon - stop harming Monica

1:43 PM

@Bart That old boys network post... wow. Someone is really not very familiar with the connotations of that expression :)

Journeyman Geek

@Mari-LouA we kinda discussed it - and in any case I'm pretty sure it will get passed up to the folks who really ought to be reading and learning from it.

Rubiksmoose

@terdon-stopharmingMonica Yeah...

Bart

@terdon-stopharmingMonica it's almost humorous.

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Rubiksmoose And we'd still need a hell of a lot more information about that incident. We don't even really know what happened with Monica, so now we're bringing in yet another incident we don't fully understand?

Journeyman Geek

but 20 different questions on almost the same grounds/topics kinda... muddies things a lot

Shadow The Princess Wizard

1:44 PM

@terdon-stopharmingMonica as at least 50% of the questions about the recent crisis.

Rubiksmoose

@terdon-stopharmingMonica Exactly.

Journeyman Geek

and honestly

I think we need a lot more focus than "How loud and noisy can we make meta"

3

Bart

WHAT? I DIDN'T HEAR YOU!

Journeyman Geek

So I'm all for doing everything we can to make things right and better

but a lot of this is just...

Shadow The Princess Wizard

Just three dots?

I'd give it 10.

Journeyman Geek

1:52 PM

and I'm kinda bracing myself for the outcome of whatever is supposedly planned for the next few days

Tinkeringbell

You mean our 1 year moderation anniversary party? :D

Journeyman Geek

lol

TECHNICALLY I've only been a mod for a few weeks :D

Rubiksmoose

@JourneymanGeek Poor new guy ;)

Tinkeringbell

Oh yeah.... Well.. I've also not moderated for a few weeks when this started... Completely regret that now, but it's what it is... we are getting a party, whether you like it or not ;)

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell well I officially got myself demodded

and properly remodded

Raedwald

1:54 PM

@Bart Before I edited that question it had a link to Breitbart. They whole post is an excuse for "social conservatives" to gripe.

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Yeah that process is slooooooow :P But I still feel it doesn't count ;) You could've just as well taken a vacation ;)

Journeyman Geek

sigh american politics.

@Tinkeringbell I could use one.

I mean from work

Yanno, take a few weeks at my gran, hang out with her doggosaur.

Tinkeringbell

Just 4 weeks to go after this one... Then I'll have two weeks off during the holidays :)

My mom is nagging me to actually go out of the country during that time o.o

Journeyman Geek

I'm still saving leave in the hopes something will work out matchmaking wise

or If I get another job, I go calculate it, proratedly and quit :D

Bart

@Tinkeringbell Baarle Nassau counts?

Tinkeringbell

1:58 PM

@Bart I don't think so...

She wants me to take a plane/international train. I guess she loves me :/

Bart

@Tinkeringbell life is tough :p

Tinkeringbell

She's even offered to go on holiday together :| Apparently 'christmas shopping in London' is fun? Or going to a christmas fair in Germany...

It's kinda amazing really, she got mad when I retorted that's not what christmas is supposed to be about (she taught me that....)

Anyhow. I have two weeks of vacation, that was the fun part ;)

JAD

@Bart If you live that far up north, I'd say anything south of the rivers counts ;)

Bart

@JAD ... though up north we'd generally say that anything below the rivers doesn't count. ;)

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Raedwald I'm reading that now (figure I may as well go into the deep end). And I found this gem of a quote about WP admins who tried to overturn the ban:

> The three all received praise and “rewards” from other editors and administrators for their “bravery” in defying the foundation with one likened to China’s Tank Man of Tiananmen Square.

Raedwald

2:05 PM

@Tinkeringbell Christmas shopping can't be fun anywhere.

terdon - stop harming Monica

Right. Because standing in front of a bloody tank in real life is absolutely comparable to risking having your WP admin status revoked.

What are these people thinking?

Journeyman Geek

@terdon-stopharmingMonica I donno. I'm hiding behind a keyboard, and the most I risk is burn out and a life herding sheep or something peaceful like that.

@terdon-stopharmingMonica the internet is srs bzns.

The most I risk is someone posting my real name and saying something a future employer will look skance at

which is bad and unacceptable but somewhat less dangerous than getting run over by a tank

terdon - stop harming Monica

somewhat

Raedwald

@terdon-stopharmingMonica I guess that is what happens if outrage and hyperbole feeds on itself for enough iterations. Sadly, MSE has been through some iterations of that. If it doesn't calm down, so the iterating stop, MSE will become entirely worthless.

Bart

@terdon-stopharmingMonica probably the same as those who strongly defended the use of certain poems to express their grievances.

PM 2Ring

2:15 PM

@Bart Not to be confused with Funky Nassau. :)

Rubiksmoose

@Raedwald :|

JAD

@Bart well, it'd count as foreign, wouldn't it?

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Bart just what I was thinking, yes.

mag

@terdon-stopharmingMonica The whole situation was shit and fram was mistreated quite badly, but he didn't help his case himself and some of his supporters went far off the deep end

terdon - stop harming Monica

As tends to happen. Sigh.

Bart

2:22 PM

@PM2Ring oooh, very cool

mag

When your currency is clicks and attention, hyperbole wins

Raedwald

Oh good, another MSE outrage amplification post about why some comments were deleted. By someone who doesn't know what comments are for. And does not bother reading the FAQ when you provide a link to it.

Journeyman Geek

Nope

Everyone's comments are special and unique and shouldn't be deleted at all :D

mag

I'd go a step further and would like a dropdown allowing you to select a max age for your own comment after which it is deleted automatically

PM 2Ring

@Bart Glad you like it. Almost 50 years old, and it's still funky.

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

2:28 PM

There should at the very least be uniformly enforced rules for their deletion, and a motivation other than "I define some words differently from you" should be provided.

Tinkeringbell

@Raedwald Hmmm. Christmas food shopping is do-able ;)

terdon - stop harming Monica

@mag that... could actually be a really great idea!

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@Raedwald we really should have a big notice "Comments might be deleted without any notice" added below/above/besides the comment textbox. I keep saying that, and only few understand or even believe me.

mag

often times I leave a comment for someone pointing out something I know they'll fix in minutes or at most a day

afterwards, these dangle around, having served their purpose

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@mag free helpful flags for others, good. ;)

Mgetz

2:32 PM

@JourneymanGeek ❄❄❄❄❄❄❄❄❄❄🎿

Rubiksmoose

@JourneymanGeek Not only special and unique, but absolutely vital essential dialog that must be heard on this issue.

Journeyman Geek

I honestly also would point out, most of this probably is more stressful for the mods and ground level staffers than the folks who make or had made the decisions.

I'm not here to prop up the company

I'm here cause I don't want MSE to turn into a toxic craphole.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

25

Q: Allow for setting comments to "auto-expire", to become "temporary comments"

Meanwhile, in August 2009 "noise" was added as reason for comment flagging, and the comment flags show in the 10k tools. And Allow low-rep users to suggest edits is on its way. Hence: I don't care for this request myself anymore. An explicit [status-declined] would be fine. What about being ab...

/cc @mag ^

mag

the ground level staffers probably have similar levels of disgust and disappointment with the company we do but they're not at liberty to express it because this is their paycheck and this is not a cause worth putting your family on the street over

Journeyman Geek

yup

mag

2:35 PM

just a penny for thoughts of anyone who likes to equate every CM to SE the monolith

Shadow The Princess Wizard

heh mag's avatar is almost the same as the OP of that.

Journeyman Geek

And I'm free to express it and I do.

terdon - stop harming Monica

@ShadowThePrincessWizard cheers

Journeyman Geek

but I also try to act in a way that helps folks feel safe where I can, since quite a lot of SE actions have been failures there.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

Wait, @Journeyman you mentioned a "big move in few days" earlier. Hope it's not another big change, e.g. making question downvotes cost 1 rep too?

Now that SE is all about "everyone are equal" this makes perfect sense, but.... hope it won't happen.

terdon - stop harming Monica

2:38 PM

@ShadowThePrincessWizard Downvoting will now increase a post's score by +2 and decrease your rep by -20 instead. :P

Shadow The Princess Wizard

lol

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowThePrincessWizard oh, so

this is what I know

Shadow The Princess Wizard

Another option: reset any display name including "Monica" in it.

Journeyman Geek

Absolutely nothing :D

@ShadowThePrincessWizard I will not do that

mag

@ShadowThePrincessWizard next step: zalgo monica gofundme links

Journeyman Geek

2:39 PM

or handle any of the gofundme related flags

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@JourneymanGeek of course not. A script will.

Journeyman Geek

that's for corporate, and legal and its their problem

Even with COC related flags - I'm working on them on the basis of community and community members

Rubiksmoose

@ShadowThePrincessWizard Oh the big move is simply that we are moving the site over to Fandom.wiki.stackexchange. Should be pretty uncontroversial.

mag

or daring guerilla tactics like making the link into a datamatrix barcode and setting that as your avatar or inline in your profile

terdon - stop harming Monica

@JourneymanGeek you're getting flags?

Shadow The Princess Wizard

2:40 PM

@JourneymanGeek well they did announce it's going to be removed, and IMO it's fair.

Journeyman Geek

not cause corporate wants us to

@terdon-stopharmingMonica this shouldn't be a surprise

terdon - stop harming Monica

@JourneymanGeek As in people flagging for the presence of the GFM link?

Journeyman Geek

:/

kiiiiinda.

or for alluding to it

or some other mess

not. my. problem.

terdon - stop harming Monica

I am very surprised. I wonder why folks feel the need to do that. I guess they feel they should follow the policy no matter what that is.

Journeyman Geek

sigh

Meta attracts people who crave extreme order.

mag

2:42 PM

I mean not flagging that when you see it is a form of civil disobedience

terdon - stop harming Monica

But there's no policy about not having the link. All we have is an official announcement that SE will be removing links. That doesn't imply any policy >:)

JAD

@mag but whos going to click that?

mag

as is not handling the flags

terdon - stop harming Monica

So let them go ahead and remove it.

mag

don't get me wrong I'd never flag or remove it from anywhere

post it in chat for what it's worth if SE wants to get rid of it they can do that all on their own

Journeyman Geek

2:43 PM

@mag more its not a determination I really want to make.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@terdon-stopharmingMonica keep in mind staff can flag as well. They're users, and they're human.

mag

whatever this is I voted to delete it: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/338673/…

Journeyman Geek

lol

just politics as usual and folks trying to pressure us :D

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@mag meh, the answer has some value, better leave it for the sake of the next person asking the same question.

terdon - stop harming Monica

@JourneymanGeek At least that one is on topic...

Shadow The Princess Wizard

2:46 PM

@Kenny is gone. :(

PM 2Ring

@bart Funky Nassau inspired the reggae classic, Funky Kingston. I'm not a big reggae fan, but I can't help liking that track. :)

Tinkeringbell

@mag That one makes me sad :(

Journeyman Geek

I'm pretty sure that accusations of me being a corporate shrill will happen

but let me put it this way - do folks think things will be better without mods?

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@Tinkeringbell well it's accusing you, so can understand.. :/

mag

corporate parrot is here :D

Journeyman Geek

2:47 PM

Letting the company handle it completely .... well...

doppelgreener

gripes gonna gripe

mag

I'm imagining a parrot in a suit and tie

Tinkeringbell

I think it heavily underestimates the amount of introspection it took to even be capable (not comfortable, just capable) of trying to do something here.

@mag NEVER! It'll be a hoodie and sweatpants.

Journeyman Geek

3 remaining mods on a site that y'all can yell at easily vs the CM team handling the whole network...

doppelgreener

@Rubiksmoose I like the response you gave: sticking around to help enact constructive change is exactly why I've become more active than I was a few months ago

Journeyman Geek

2:48 PM

@mag I get more worries of burn out than accusations of selling out.

mag

In my mind most of the mods who remain do so because they love their communities more then they hate SE

which is a good thing

Journeyman Geek

I don't hate SE

SE makes me sad, a lot.

mag

/s/SE/SE's actions

Journeyman Geek

Over an extended period of time

@mag I'd even say the company as a whole

terdon - stop harming Monica

I'm beginning to hate SE. Not the people that make up SE, but the faceless corporation that it has become.

Well, hate is a strong word. Strongly dislike and deeply distrust, perhaps.

Journeyman Geek

2:50 PM

but being a moderator gives me a little agency, not much, but more than nothing.

Often dosen't feel like its enough, but its more than nothing.

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener :) thanks. I'm extremely happy you stuck around, even though it's been extremely hard on you.

mag

I hate the fact that they are so close to not being like dime a dozen other evil immoral corporations but seem to choose that path regardless

Rubiksmoose

@terdon-stopharmingMonica But all mods are shills!

mag

@Rubiksmoose you have the advantage of being a rubics cube that is also a moose

one can't be mad at that

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Rubiksmoose Some are shrills!

Journeyman Geek

2:53 PM

and frankly I hope it settles down so I can go vanish a month and not come back to over a hundred flags ;p

terdon - stop harming Monica

6 mins ago, by Journeyman Geek

I'm pretty sure that accusations of me being a corporate shrill will happen

Rubiksmoose

@terdon-stopharmingMonica Shrill shills are the worst.

doppelgreener

I got burned out a few months ago by the transphobia and consistent lack of response to it draining my willingness to continue. I appreciate the company's finally taken steps to address it. I do not like that they've made so many unforced bad choices to make things so much worse than they could have been. But I won't begrudge that they've finally done some of what they should have done years ago to protect minority members that had been getting driven out.

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek I can handle the amount of current flags...

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell back up is nice, and we don't want you burning out either ;p

Rubiksmoose

2:54 PM

@mag I'm the apex evolution of my species :)

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

I've been upset by undue accusations of phobia, so that makes two of us.

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek I won't, I stop before that happens :)

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

In particular, by trying to frame ideological disagreement as phobia.

Tinkeringbell

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi My mom used to... scold... in a general 'you'. And one thing I learned from it: If I didn't do anything wrong, there's no need for me to feel scolded at or upset. Her anger wasn't aimed at me in that time.

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi Yeah well, framing someones being as an ideology also isn't very nice, so you're not getting to have this discussion here.

Mgetz

@JourneymanGeek yes but which company... Apple, MS, Amazon... who are you really shilling for!?

Journeyman Geek

2:56 PM

@Mgetz Funny story that

Mgetz

if it's Oracle I'm going to be super disappointed in you

Journeyman Geek

I work for a consulting firm that used to be part of HP

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

@Tinkeringbell I don't frame anyone as an ideology. People are people, ideologies are ideologies.

Journeyman Geek

Someone one asked me "I saw an ad for your company at the airport... what do they do?"

blinks

"I have no idea"

I'd mention it, but erf. I don't really feel safe going into too much details these days

Mgetz

@JourneymanGeek That's fine I don't mention my employer for a lot of good reasons

Tinkeringbell

2:58 PM

Consulting is fun? :P

doppelgreener

Consulting is so fun

Journeyman Geek

@doppelgreener my company basically handles those wierd legacy contracts mainly

and "Transformation"

Tinkeringbell

@doppelgreener is not... they secretly changed me from 'junior developer' to 'senior consultant' and now I'm all of a sudden getting 'you can't be a consultant with just 40 hours a week' o.o

Mgetz

@Tinkeringbell can be when clients listen

Journeyman Geek

so not much fun

doppelgreener

2:59 PM

@Tinkeringbell [reels in horror]

Tinkeringbell

Yeah...

Mgetz

@Tinkeringbell that is seriously not cool....

mag

@Tinkeringbell did they quadruple your pay too?

Tinkeringbell

@mag Yeah well sorta. ;)

mag

Because otherwise they can take that title change and shove it

Journeyman Geek

3:00 PM

naw, just how much they charge the client :D

at the moment my team is 2 people short

Tinkeringbell

^ That, but I'm getting a nice share to... about 10% paycheck increase, so can't complain.

Mgetz

As a consultant I refuse to work overtime. Initially it throws people off but they get it once I explain.

Journeyman Geek

I have 2 people out on reservist, so taking off isn't an option :/

(and I have a few days saved up)

doppelgreener

I used to work for a consulting firm as well. They put sincere emphasis on work/life balance: "You should not be working overtime. If you are working overtime, you either have too much work or are not managing it well, and need to reach out to your manager to address it." I genuinely do not recall overtime ever being expected of me.

Tinkeringbell

@Mgetz Oh, I just refuse to work overtime too... and I don't put the hours they have me following company trainings on the clients bill, and meetings? Well, I can't come. I can't use the train to travel from X to Y in less than 30 minutes, sorry!

doppelgreener

3:01 PM

But we were owned by a different consulting firm, who we'd also work with sometimes, and folks there would be putting in 12 hour days because it would help with getting a promotion. That's insane.

Stevoisiak

My manager has a policy of always approving PTO, which is nice

Journeyman Geek

@doppelgreener our nomal work days are 12 hours

but 2+2 or 3 day weeks

doppelgreener

(Also gives me flashbacks to another company I'd heard about that specifically recorded "no overtime taken" as a positive factor in their performance review process; people stopped taking overtime. Mission accomplished.)

Bart

@mag poof

doppelgreener

@JourneymanGeek Ok, that sounds nice.

mag

3:02 PM

I never work OT unless it's paid at at least 1.5x in time off

doppelgreener

(Is it nice?)

Journeyman Geek

but we often get asked to cover - which gives us OIL

Tinkeringbell

@doppelgreener They mostly expect me to do a lot of... public relations almost. Go to a meeting here, a talk there... Do a special thing for female consultants, attend a special thing for female consultants.... Write blog posts on the clients blog, on the company blog, have a linkedIn... and then there's the general things like the security trainings and stuff...

Journeyman Geek

@doppelgreener I'm here talking to you at work :D

Tinkeringbell

So far, I've only worked overtime once though :)

Journeyman Geek

3:03 PM

Night shifts like this suck

Stevoisiak

@JourneymanGeek OIL?

Tinkeringbell

In three years, so that's good.

Journeyman Geek

off in lieu

doppelgreener

:D

mag

@Tinkeringbell In a sense, that's a benefit

Journeyman Geek

3:03 PM

so instead of paying you OT, they give you another day off

doppelgreener

That can't be too bad then :P

mag

you can leverage that angle for more € and faster promotions

doppelgreener

@Tinkeringbell Good! I'm glad.

Journeyman Geek

job is boring though

Tinkeringbell

@mag ?? I don't need more money to be honest, and I also don't need promotions if they mean 60 hour work weeks ;) So I'm not doing any of it ;)

Journeyman Geek

3:04 PM

more money is always good lol

Tinkeringbell

I'm not going to work a 60 hour work week now, just so I can have a 60 work week later ;)

mag

@Tinkeringbell I mean better working conditions in general

Tinkeringbell

So, instead of spending the extra 20 hours a week on company stuff, use it to go against the company culture? :P

doppelgreener

@Tinkeringbell comply and submit your soul and physical essence to the corporate grindstone. work fortifies the spirit and strengthens the body.

mag

you can probably extract a lot more concessions from them then would usually be possible. If they're trying to promote and increase their female work force you can take advantage of that fact to advance your career and better your working conditions

might seem unfair but you're taking advantage of a for profit corporation and not really other people

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

3:06 PM

I've had my occasional share of working overnight - in jobs where I was the only dev, and could not rely on others to get it done. I've since got better at planning, luckily.

Tinkeringbell

@doppelgreener There's a few really good things here too, the best is that I still have a paycheck should a client ever decide they no longer need me. They also have a very good policy towards health insurance and travelling public transport (the lease car thing is a bit thin, but it's okay-ish too...)... So I guess I will, but only for 40 hours a week ;)

doppelgreener

I definitely empathise with not doing overtime like that though, that's a gross part of modern day capitalist culture. I have things to do with my life that aren't my job or recovering from my job or chores, and I need the time and energy to do them. My time is worth more than, essentially, giving a corporation a +50% bonus or buy-two-get-one-free deal on hours of my life.

mag

@doppelgreener for me, my free time amount is not negotiable

Tinkeringbell

@mag Ehh... I'd have chosen another profession if I wanted to sell my femininity. :P That's below what I'm willing to do.

Journeyman Geek

@doppelgreener sigh. I have job, taking care of old people (and a dog) and... I do random crap with computers to keep me from not feeling useless :D

mag

3:08 PM

I won't work more then my 38 hours a week on average. If they want OT, they better pay above-par comp time in lieu. I don't need fat stacks of € but my time is mine and I don't have infinite amounts of it

Tinkeringbell

@doppelgreener Yeah, there's a lot to do during 'free time' too, sure!

Hitodama

@Tinkeringbell Case #125

Tinkeringbell

@Hitodama Indeed. That was a fun read :)

terdon - stop harming Monica

@doppelgreener That sounds exactly like something Skeletor would say!

I work unpaid overtime every day. I'm just too used to this coming from academia. I will charge when I work weekends, but there's no clear definition of what a full working day is, so I usually work >10h a day. But not because anyone asks me to.

I work for a startup and I've been here since the beginning, so I'm personally invested.

fbueckert

@rene Hah. Ahah. I'm getting inklings that they're closing down, and rebates are being transferred back to the site owners.

mag

3:22 PM

@Tinkeringbell If you frame it that way sure, but I'd frame it in the same way as getting a job because your parents knew someone

doppelgreener

@Hitodama That was a great read.

mag

you probably remember my minor breakdown on that from a few weeks ago

Tinkeringbell

@mag To be honest, with all the breakdowns... I don't :|

But yeah, both are bad ;)

Shadow The Princess Wizard

meh 12k user shouldn't be blacklisted

!!/rmblu 111307

SmokeDetector

@ShadowThePrincessWizard Invalid format. Valid format: !!/rmblu profileurl or !!/rmblu userid sitename.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

3:24 PM

!!/rmblu meta.stackexchange.com/users/111307/bobobobo

SmokeDetector

@ShadowThePrincessWizard User is not blacklisted.

Stevoisiak

3:40 PM

Pokemon Sword and Shield should no longer crash your Roku

I think this is the most bizarre bug I've ever seen.

Tinkeringbell

Blegh... that one has an adblocker blocker :/

I'll read it when home.

Stevoisiak

Let me grab a different site

theverge.com/2019/11/18/20970743/…

Cerbrus

@Tinkeringbell I seem to have blocked the adblocker blocker

Tinkeringbell

@Cerbrus How?

Cerbrus

uBlock <3

Tinkeringbell

3:43 PM

Oh... I should try and get that sometime on the work laptop too, yes.

@Stevoisiak This one works, thanks :)

Cerbrus

Also this

chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-origin-extra/…

Stevoisiak

TLDR; Playing Pokemon on the same network as a Roku smart TV could lock the TV into a boot loop.

Rubiksmoose

@Stevoisiak That's insane!

Cerbrus

That's probably what blocks the anti-adblocker

Hitodama

@Rubiksmoose just very improbable.

Rubiksmoose

3:44 PM

> Pokémon sends a network discovery packet to each device on port 26037. Roku also listen on that port for LAN based updates so that multiple devices on the same network can update each other. It was an obvious decision. Saved Roku around a quarter million dollars in CDN traffic costs. Roku is popular in the commercial space where it’s often used as a media source to control sometimes 100s of TVs on the same network. It just so happens that Pokémon’s network discovery packet shares the exact same bytes as Roku’s signed bytecode to reboot.

3

Tinkeringbell

@Stevoisiak That's... ridiculous!

Cerbrus

> It just so happens that Pokémon’s network discovery packet shares the exact same bytes as Roku’s signed bytecode to reboot.

.... how

Tinkeringbell

@Rubiksmoose Dear Deity! Please! Not the Justin Timberlake clones!

Stevoisiak

The debugging for this must have been so dumb

Tinkeringbell

@Stevoisiak I'm actually thinking that must've been an insanely hard one to debug, just because it's so unexpected!

Stevoisiak

3:45 PM

The initial solution people found was to set their Switch to airplane mode

Cerbrus

What is this Roku thing?

I read it also breaks netflix...

Stevoisiak

It's a smart TV, like an Amazon Fire Stick

Cerbrus

Ah

Stevoisiak

I think there have been some issues with the Netflix app

Cerbrus

Not that smart, apparently

xD

Stevoisiak

3:47 PM

twitter.com/TylerGlaiel/status/1196145880509734912

Hitodama

@Rubiksmoose about a year and an half ago, two separate Visual Studio installations on separate machines decided that they just had to generate the same GUID identifier for two separate feature in two separate SharePoint solution projects. If you think that is improbable, just know that the two separate SharePoint apps for an even bigger "destiny hates you" event ended up installed on the same farm.

Hilarity ensued.

Not.

fbueckert

@Cerbrus I've seen some crazy network stuff, but that beats mine.

WD TV Live devices apparently abhor uPnP packets. Getting one murders it's ability to connect to the network.

Stevoisiak

In ten years we'll be reading about Animal Crossing causing self-driving cars to crash somehow.

PM 2Ring

Speaking of hilarious bugs, check out this one that happened to one of the SO Python room regulars: stackoverflow.com/q/48610180/4014959

Stevoisiak

@PM2Ring screams internally

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