Tavern on the Meta

JAD

12:00 PM

I work at a financial advisor selling insurance. They advise "only insure that what you cannot afford to lose".

mag

@TheforestofReinstateMonica last I heard he didn't really have any supercars

user1306322

Ferrari Sent Deadmau5 A Cease And Desist About His 'Purrari'

mag

you're thinking of gates, who has a fleet of supercars

The forest of Reinstate Monica

@mag I'm thinking of billionaires in general.

@user1306322 haha wow

mag

I'd guess the super-rich only have legally mandated coverage, and most self-insure. It makes no sense to pay insurance premiums (which generally means paying more over a long time rather then all of it right when it happens) when you can just take the hit

JAD

12:01 PM

^

insurance companies turn profit, ergo it's cheaper to self-insure, if you can afford that.

(maybe that's taking a few shortcuts, but in the bigger picture it works)

The forest of Reinstate Monica

Just because you can doesn't mean you necessarily should. There's an income level where you can afford a really, really nice car but wouldn't consider it so cheap that you could replace it like nothing.

JAD

Then I would argue you cannot afford to replace it

The forest of Reinstate Monica

oh yeah

Forgive me I'm high. I didn't notice the bold text above.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@TheforestofReinstateMonica are you on a ladder? Or tree?

The forest of Reinstate Monica

Tree of course.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

12:06 PM

@mag Bill? Just read that he's #1 again

@TheforestofReinstateMonica Palm tree?

The forest of Reinstate Monica

Palm trees don't grow in forests!

Shadow The Princess Wizard

meh

Redwood then?

The forest of Reinstate Monica

Also, I really should not be up at this hour.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

sending @Theforest to bed

Tinkeringbell

Yeah, go sleep off whatever you're high on ;)

The forest of Reinstate Monica

12:08 PM

I always feel scummy telling my kid to make her own breakfast because I'm tired/hung over/sick.

Tinkeringbell

And next time you join chat, be sober ;)

The forest of Reinstate Monica

Now that's a lot to ask.

Half the time I go on this chat it's because I'm high lol

user1306322

you know oxygen is thin at high elevations, so get down soon

Tinkeringbell

Hence no question mark there.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

@user1306322 Don't worry the leaves produce oxygen even if the partial pressure is low.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

12:10 PM

Well even Shog arrives non-sober often, at least from what he says.... :D

user1306322

oh yea forgot about that

user58

It's a Tavern. If you're coming in already not sober, you have a problem.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

lel

Shadow The Princess Wizard

Feb 4 '18 at 19:53, by Shog9

5. If it's the weekend / evening and I'm drunk, all bets are off: see #4 above.

JAD

@user58 you've never heard of drinking in?

Tinkeringbell

12:12 PM

@ShadowThePrincessWizard Yeah well... that was when there were no mods around ;)

@JAD I get the feeling that's a pretty Dutch, cheapskate thing ;)

terdon - stop harming Monica

@user58 those who go to taverns with the objective of getting drunk, usually get a head start at home. It's cheaper that way.

mag

if your only objective is getting drunk, pre-gaming a couple shots of the cheapest nastiest triple distilled vodka is probably the most cost saving option

JAD

@Tinkeringbell possibly-probably

Tinkeringbell

From the reactions though.. seems not ;)

JAD

yep

I read those only after I replied

doppelgreener

12:15 PM

@TheforestofReinstateMonica Honestly, that's a small microcosm of the issue. Trans users and moderators have been pointing out problems for years. The responses we get (when we get any response at all) have consistently been that simply, other users don't see what we see, therefore they don't take us seriously and think we're jumping at shadows and/or just outright mistaken. Nobody tends to spot harm unless (a) it actually harms them specifically, or (b) they've been taught to see it by people who can spot it.

Stop Harming Monica

The problem with (b) is then they start seeing harm everywhere, where there is none

doppelgreener

So, cue us raising issues for years, and being completely ignored or told we're wrong/mistaken/misunderstanding for years and not being taken seriously basically ever. By anyone/everyone. [shrug]

The forest of Reinstate Monica

I don't understand why being trans should be relevant to SE at all.

I'm not going to refuse to answer your question because you have gender dysphoria or something.

Tinkeringbell

@TheforestofReinstateMonica Because people talk with people about people in chatrooms. And we have sites like IPS now.

mag

@doppelgreener I think, the crucial failure of this latest effort is that the process of learning to spot harm requires a great deal of trust in those that teach it, otherwise it's very easy to dismiss the entire thing out of hand

The forest of Reinstate Monica

12:16 PM

Hell, I likely won't even know if you do unless you say so in bold text in your question.

Well IPS is a dumpster fire anyway. I don't count it.

Stop Harming Monica

@TheforestofReinstateMonica as a US tech company, the appearance of being progressive is valuable

user58

....

mag

guess what happens when SE, an organization that enjoys currently what can even charitably be only described as widespread, systemic complete distrust , tries to push that process

The forest of Reinstate Monica

@StopHarmingMonica Yeah but... why? The compiler doesn't give two shits about your gender identity. It's not going to discriminate. The linker won't complain about your political views.

JAD

@Tinkeringbell This. I feel that 95%+ of the issue isn't necessarily in the Q&A, but the fringes around it, like chat. (cc @TheforestofReinstateMonica

Stop Harming Monica

12:17 PM

@TheforestofReinstateMonica the compiler doesn't give you millions of dollars in capital

doppelgreener

@TheforestofReinstateMonica The thing is, we are a community with users who interact, especially on chat. It doesn't matter in 99.9% of interactions on mainsite, but we'll eventually come across that 0.1% case. It does matter more often in chat because it's necessarily a more personal environment, and you'll eventually be using pronouns for me.

mag

@TheforestofReinstateMonica on a Q/A platform where people work together there aren't just compilers.

Tinkeringbell

@JAD I guess I forgot comments and meta. But yeah. This was never about questions about programming.

mag

whererever people meet and interact there's going to be an interpersonal dynamic at play and social interaction happens to one extent or another

take this chat for instance, we're doing it right now

The forest of Reinstate Monica

@doppelgreener Well if I use the wrong pronoun for you, just tell me I got it wrong. Simple as that.

doppelgreener

12:18 PM

Yeah

@TheforestofReinstateMonica Thanks! I appreciate it.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

Since I think that distracts from programming Q&A topics.

doppelgreener

@TheforestofReinstateMonica Literally the problem we have is at the step you just made beforehand.

user58

@TheforestofReinstateMonica In any ideal world, that's exactly how it'd work. This... isn't an ideal world.

JAD

@Tinkeringbell but perhaps this isn't emphasised enough in the CoC, not everybody uses chat and the like

doppelgreener

Like, people getting harassed for making the request "actually could you use they/them" for me.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

12:19 PM

@doppelgreener What step?

ah

doppelgreener

Or being expected to justify it at length before anyone's willing to do that.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

Well I already got in like an hour argument about using they/them with someone I respect greatly on another site. They eventually managed to convince me, but chances are I'll forget.

I can't even remember if someone is a he or she unless their name is obviously gendered.

Tinkeringbell

There's supposedly a userscript around to fix that...

The forest of Reinstate Monica

But if I do remember or am reminded, I'm happy to use he, she, or they.

Stop Harming Monica

@doppelgreener such a comment would have been correctly flagged as no longer needed / chatty, which people may perceive as harassment

doppelgreener

12:20 PM

26

Q: Pronoun Assistant

Screenshot / Code Snippet About It's hard to miss these days - the Code of Conduct is about to change. It will emphasize the importance of using the correct pronoun when referring to a user in third person. This most often comes up in chat, and some users already have information about w...

@StopHarmingMonica In chat though.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

oh jeeze

doppelgreener

It's great and it's helpful, and entirely optional.

mag

it's not though

Tinkeringbell

@TheforestofReinstateMonica It's not necessary. It's there for those who want it.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

I tend to avoid using pronouns if I can help it, for people with a gender I don't know.

mag

12:21 PM

"do not deliberately misgender people" allows for forgetfulness

Even if you forget often, nobody will ban you for that

unless it's obvious you're not actually forgetting, but doing it to make a point

doppelgreener

@TheforestofReinstateMonica I appreciate that, sincerely.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

yea

doppelgreener

@mag yep, the kinds of crap we have dealt with includes people pointedly refusing and gendering us incorrectly.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

@doppelgreener Hopefully it won't matter since I try not to use pronouns or even default to they (as much as it irritates the grammar nazi in me), or even "OP" for referring to OP.

mag

I'm not worried about forgetting pronouns because when I do, someone will tell me. There's no gatcha-style 1 strike and you're out system in play, it's not like there's someone trawling for reasons to ban people frivolously

doppelgreener

12:22 PM

Like, trans people aren't the folks who have been trying to make this into a big deal. We've had pretty simple requests: "hey, please use they/them for me" for example and that's about it. It's been other people making a big deal out of that, arguing with us, reacting poorly and refusing to a simple courtesy, etc.

mag

the crux of the change is that people aren't really allowed to go "I find your identity offensive and will not acknowledge it" anymore

The forest of Reinstate Monica

Or "overlord", as I saw on one occasion.

mag

which, I mean

fair enough

user1306322

@TheforestofReinstateMonica not a pronoun, that's a title

Stop Harming Monica

except not fair enough, you'd get in trouble for that

doppelgreener

12:23 PM

@TheforestofReinstateMonica That one is certainly someone trolling over pronoun usage, but I would ask you respect neopronouns (like 'zeh') and use them.

mag

fair enough as in if you have that view, hold your tongue and fit in

user1306322

words are anything we choose

Journeyman Geek

@TheforestofReinstateMonica I have a horrid memory and it helps

Tinkeringbell

@user1306322 supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!

djsmiley2k - CoW

@doppelgreener it hasn't helped that SE then went "you can't just use They/Them all the time"

Journeyman Geek

12:24 PM

Actually it's a pain in the rear not to have once you are used to it

doppelgreener

The CoC would too. But mostly you'll almost certainly never have to.

Emanuele Ciriachi

Since we're in topic, I'd like to mention the "moderation" to the CoC in question.

doppelgreener

@TheforestofReinstateMonica Look, I need to ask you to stop. Coming up with arbitrary silly words for neopronouns is being a jerk at this point.

Emanuele Ciriachi

10 days after my answer was deleted, no moderator explained why - other than because people complained about it. It was not communicated at all whether the problem was with the content itself or the way it was presented.

Tinkeringbell

@djsmiley2k-CoW Why? I'm a she... I won't get mad if people that don't know that use they/them or he to refer to me... but at some point we're getting to interact often enough that I'd like them to talk about me as a she.

doppelgreener

12:25 PM

That's like saying "I won't call someone Anna, what's next, people asking me to call them Wibbly Dibbly?"

djsmiley2k - CoW

@Tinkeringbell I don't know why

XD

mag

the only situation in which you cannot use they or them and are positively forced to use a neopronoun is when a) someone corrects you and requests you use it and b) you're in a situation where not using pronouns would feel like unnatural writing and c) you're a moderator and therefore not allowed to simply walk away when someone mentions it

The forest of Reinstate Monica

@doppelgreener I honestly don't know when one counts as silly or not. I don't know a list of neopronouns. Excuse my ignorance but they all, with the exception of obvious trolls like "apache" and "overlord", sound the same to me.

mag

as a normal user you are completly free to walk away and stop talking when someone requests you use a neopronoun

but in normal course of interaction that almost never happens, so trying to stake the success or failure of the whole COC to that is foolish still

doppelgreener

@TheforestofReinstateMonica One hint is they're almost always only one syllable, 'zeh' is the only one you've mentioned at this point.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

12:26 PM

Didn't know that, thanks.

Only ones I know are "xe" and "schlrr". I guess those are both one syllable, yeah.

doppelgreener

My guideline to you would be to not go out of your way to come up with new silly words and then use them to say "neopronouns are ridiculous, just look at this word I just now came up with that nobody actually asked for."

Tinkeringbell

@djsmiley2k-CoW Don't worry. Nothing is easy these days, but please do call me a she when gossiping to others about me ;)

user1306322

fwiw there's a distinction between an identity, a pronoun and a title

Emanuele Ciriachi

The only comment I got was that a moderator disagreed with me about my definition of the word "gender", and "that disagreement is why the post was deleted"; now I find it perfectly plausible that different people may give different meanings to different words, and I cannot fathom how this constitutes a good reason to delete an answer that the community at large received very well (+21).

djsmiley2k - CoW

@Tinkeringbell and there's the bit that doesn't make sense to me, and so many others.

doppelgreener

12:28 PM

@TheforestofReinstateMonica No, just, s/glipsy/not coming up with new ridiculous words at all/.

djsmiley2k - CoW

When do I ever talk about other people, on these sites?

Other than maybe as "Op"

The forest of Reinstate Monica

I just made them up because I don't know the real ones.

doppelgreener

@TheforestofReinstateMonica Don't make them up, is all I'm asking! Goodness.

mag

we would have a lot fewer problems if people crossed that bridge when we came to it

user1306322

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi can you link it for 10k+ users to review?

mag

12:29 PM

I hazard a guess maybe one in two hundred users will ever be confronted with a request to change pronoun usage mid conversation, and significantly fewer still will be for neopronouns

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

@user1306322 sure: meta.stackexchange.com/a/336755/397731

Tinkeringbell

@djsmiley2k-CoW I said that just a few messages above... there's loads of users that don't, and that's fine. But if I'm going to talk about something you wrote to people in chat... and you use chat too... chances are you'll find me talking about you using pronouns to refer to you. Meta sites sometimes fall into that too, especially when moderators talk about each others actions...

djsmiley2k - CoW

@mag yet someone felt we needed a rule specifically for it?

The forest of Reinstate Monica

I've been asked to change pronoun usage mid-conversation a few times, but never a neopronoun.

user1306322

oh dang I forgot I'm not 10k on meta :I guess others can review it then

The forest of Reinstate Monica

12:29 PM

I've heard "actually I'm a girl" a couple of times when I defaulted to "he" by habit.

djsmiley2k - CoW

@Tinkeringbell heh, am I he or she?

doppelgreener

I want to draw attention to the fact we are currently having a discussion that is basically making fun of neopronouns and being offensive toward their users. Y'all need to stop this.

djsmiley2k - CoW

I don't know if I've ever said. I don't know if I've ever given any clues.

Stop Harming Monica

@doppelgreener some counter-examples: unus, talis, hiser/hizer/hizzer, himer, iro, heris

Tinkeringbell

@djsmiley2k-CoW Unless you tell me differently, I will try to use 'they'. But I'm getting a bit of 'he' too ;)

The forest of Reinstate Monica

12:30 PM

@doppelgreener I honestly am not trying to be offensive. I had absolutely no clue that the number of syllables was relevant in any way.

Raedwald

The technical sites don't talk about people in their Q&As. But other sites must.

mag

why are we debating the merits of various neopronouns anyways

doppelgreener

@TheforestofReinstateMonica I believe you are not trying to be offensive, it's why I am telling you, so that you can adjust and drop the offensive behaviour.

djsmiley2k - CoW

by discussion we may come to understand

The forest of Reinstate Monica

@StopHarmingMonica OK now I'm even more confused. What's the difference between hizzer and glipsy? What makes the former acceptable but the latter insulting?

doppelgreener

12:31 PM

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi ... yes it does?

Tinkeringbell

@Raedwald Yep, I've even seen it hit 'more technical' sites, like code review... I think it was a program that was supposed to be used for making family trees.

Stop Harming Monica

@TheforestofReinstateMonica intent of coinage

doppelgreener

"I think your name is silly" is disrespectful to say to you.

Tinkeringbell

But all in all, this is more of a problem in the places where people interact on a more personal level than dropping their question and getting an answer.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

@StopHarmingMonica I'm not sure how the word itself carries intent.

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

12:32 PM

@doppelgreener it's not a name though. It's a pronoun you choose, in a framework of your choice that not everyone wishes to use.

Stop Harming Monica

@TheforestofReinstateMonica it doesn't

The forest of Reinstate Monica

This stuff flies way over my head. :(

Tinkeringbell

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi I've chosen my nickname here too.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

See, this is why I stick to he/she/they and avoid deviating at all costs.

mag

eh, it's not really a choice in the sense that people pick them just because the fancy strikes.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

12:32 PM

I get accused of being rude when I don't.

user1306322

@TheforestofReinstateMonica from what I'm gathering the offensive part is that you admitted that you made it up on the spot here as a mocking example, and people asked you not to do it anymore

mag

so talking about it as a choice is somewhat demeaning

doppelgreener

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi Sure, it's not a name, it's a pronoun. And just like telling you that the name you choose to use is silly is offensive and disrespectful to you, telling you the pronoun you choose to use is silly is also offensive and disrespectful to you.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

@user1306322 I admitted I made it up on the spot, but not to mock anyone.

Tinkeringbell

@TheforestofReinstateMonica Flag it for a moderator, they can probably help mediate.

user1306322

12:33 PM

@TheforestofReinstateMonica I suppose that's how it was received though

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

@doppelgreener you may find it if offensive, but the statement itself does not directly offend you. There is a fundamental difference between offending someone, and taking offence at an opinion.

doppelgreener

@TheforestofReinstateMonica Making it up on the spot to illustrate silliness is mocking.

mag

Thats a distinction without a difference

Stop Harming Monica

However, it appears to be fine to agree that e.g. Randy Bumgardener is a silly name, without worrying about offending said gentleman

doppelgreener

18 mins ago, by doppelgreener

@TheforestofReinstateMonica Honestly, that's a small microcosm of the issue. Trans users and moderators have been pointing out problems for years. The responses we get (when we get any response at all) have consistently been that simply, other users don't see what we see, therefore they don't take us seriously and think we're jumping at shadows and/or just outright mistaken. Nobody tends to spot harm unless (a) it actually harms them specifically, or (b) they've been taught to see it by people who can spot it.

Ain't it nice to come back to this

djsmiley2k - CoW

12:34 PM

it's his opinion that it's silly.

doppelgreener

"This behaviour is offensive toward trans people." "That's just your perspective, and you're wrong."

mag

if something you're doing in polite conversation is causing someone else distress then it behooves you to stop doing it unless it's truly and varily necessary

Tinkeringbell

@TheforestofReinstateMonica If someone is accusing you of being rude when you're not, you can flag. If you are... you might want to think twice about listening to the other person and changing your behaviour.

mag

which changing the pronoun you use to refer to someone is an incredibly small effort. part of being respectful is not going out of your way to continue causing discomfort for people who asked you to stop

doppelgreener

I cordially request a topic change, because this conversation is incredibly crap.

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

12:34 PM

Just like moderators that reviewed my now-deleted answer accused me of bad faith and of whatever-o-phobia - an intellectually dishonest term that nobody should take seriously.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

@Tinkeringbell I don't know when I'm being rude anymore these days. :/

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

I find this behavior to be driven more by ideological censorship, and not by honest concern for everyone.

djsmiley2k - CoW

What to watch while I work :S

The forest of Reinstate Monica

I mean I really don't like to sound mocking, but I think the number of syllables in a pronoun somehow being relevant is... honestly very silly. I don't want to mock it, but that's my opinion.

Tinkeringbell

@doppelgreener Yeah, I guess that's wise. Because I'm not the kind of person that can really moderate the kind of behaviour exhibited here.

djsmiley2k - CoW

12:35 PM

right now, University Challenge :S

Raedwald

Schrödinger's pronoun: a pronoun that is irrelevant because we never talk about people, and simultaneously is difficult, confusing and onerous to use.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

That's the reason I try to avoid using these pronouns and just defaulting to "they", or a proper name.

Tinkeringbell

So. I propose we put this one the shelf for a little bit?

Stop Harming Monica

@djsmiley2k-CoW South Park?

djsmiley2k - CoW

@StopHarmingMonica that's 'meh'

never found it hugely funny

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

12:36 PM

Bottom line is: I'm a Stack Overflow user since 8 years; I find it appalling that, in a community making incredibly efforts to "make people feel welcome" anyone that is not 100% aligning with the ideology of present-day California left is censored

and saddled of a clinical condition for being firm but reasonable about explaining the motivations and philosophy of those disagreeing with the changes to the CoC. I suspect this not to be an isolated case, but an ongoing process of encroaching authoritarianism.

djsmiley2k - CoW

I appear to have watched all of 'That Old Tony's videos

The forest of Reinstate Monica

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi It's also Americentric in general, even if it's California left.

Tinkeringbell

OOOKAY! If we're going to use harsher and harsher words and not change topic... I might freeze the room.

What did y'all do this weekend?

Stop Harming Monica

@djsmiley2k-CoW a tongue-in-cheek suggestion given the amusing reaction to the latest episode

Journeyman Geek

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi so. At this point, if you have a problem with my decision -please use the contact us link and complain.

mag

12:37 PM

it's clear this discussion is changing no minds and is not mutually productive, so I echo the request to drop it

The forest of Reinstate Monica

@Tinkeringbell OK so no more on this topic? Sorry. Good excuse for me to sleep anyway.

Raedwald

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi Nobody is being censored. You are being required to be polite. That is all.

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

@JourneymanGeek I did. It went unanswered since 10+ days.

Journeyman Geek

That's what its for.

The forest of Reinstate Monica

@StopHarmingMonica The newer South Parks I don't find as funny as the old ones.

Tinkeringbell

12:37 PM

@TheforestofReinstateMonica Yeah, go. You said you needed to be in bed an hour ago. Sleep well!

The forest of Reinstate Monica

Weird request but pls kick me in chat for like two hours so I don't get back on.

Cuz I'm feeling too chatty to trust myself lol

Stop Harming Monica

@Tinkeringbell mostly housework, liturgical planning, and watching His Dark Materials and Man in the High Castle (no spoilers!)

The forest of Reinstate Monica

bai o/

Journeyman Geek

Ok

Tinkeringbell

@StopHarmingMonica The last bit definitely sounds fun :)

Raedwald

12:40 PM

This weekend I failed to play Command: Modern Operations because of its bugs, rather than because of its terrible UI.

Tinkeringbell

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi Honestly, if people request you drop a topic... don't try and get in a last word. It's something you've said before, it just makes things go in circles and flare up again. Last warning.

2

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

Apologies. Deleted comment.

Raedwald

(There was quite a flurry of comments. I failed to see your request to stop until after I'd replied to a comment a bit before it)

Tinkeringbell

@Raedwald That's why I aimed this not at you ;) I can understand something popping up a few seconds after I said something... it takes longer to write a message sometimes. But minutes later is over the top :)

Also a more general note: If there's 3 or 4 people not understanding/defending/opining on the same thing, and only 1 person in the room that can explain or holds a different opinion... next time, slow the discussion the hell down. Like waaay down. You can't expect 1 person to field that many responses, people will feel drowned out and a honest open conversation can't happen.

Things will escalate into stuff like above, where people use harsher words because of frustration and sometimes even just to make their messages stand out in a sea of similar messages. It's not healthy.

@Raedwald Awww :( I played Stardew Valley on Sunday. That's a pretty neat and stable game, though sometimes the screen freezes a little.

Then I miss the right square to water, and waste some energy watering one I had already watered.

Stop Harming Monica

@Tinkeringbell IIRC it doesn't like running in 4K, if that's relevant

Tinkeringbell

12:55 PM

@StopHarmingMonica It might? I'm running it on a Switch connected to a monitor... but I have no idea if that monitor is 4K ;)

Stop Harming Monica

Oh, no idea about Switch, it's a known PC issue

Tinkeringbell

Then again, if that's the worst that happens, I can live with it. ;)

I don't think I had the screen freeze thing on PC. There, it was more that I am really bad at moving using a mouse and keyboard.

Stop Harming Monica

Docking might help, then it won't throttle down or anything

Tinkeringbell

And connecting the controller to the PC makes the controller glitch/lose connection a bit sometimes.

@StopHarmingMonica as in, use the fancy stand that came with the nintendo switch? Yep, I use that :)

Stop Harming Monica

Sounds like either a dodgy controller, or some radio interference

Tinkeringbell

12:57 PM

@StopHarmingMonica probably the latter...

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

If you're playing on a TV, it could also be input lag caused by the TV itself.

Stop Harming Monica

My dongles for controller, mouse, and headset all need to be sufficiently separated on the case, or bad things happen

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

Yesterday I was playing an old classic - Capcom's D&D Tower of Doom - and I could not tell if it was the wireless controller or the TV causing more lag.

Raedwald

@StopHarmingMonica Far too many games handle 4k badly. Graphics failures seem rare, but many don't scale the UI font.