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10:10 PM
(Though in that last case, since they made good contributions after the suspension, they were allowed to continue as a normal user.)
 
this... has been established
 
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog and the first two of those involved communication from SE -- in the first case, restoring access pending an explanation was a possibility, and in the second, the behavior was discussed before action was taken. (I can't speak to the third.) None of that happened this time, so while I'm hardly the first mod to be booted, we don't know if this "process" was new.
 
10:26 PM
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog I'm very sure that list is far from complete, those events were usually handled silently
 
If there is no response from them via electronic means, what I'd do is I'd travel to New York and knock on the door of Stack Exchange's headquarters.
 
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog Getting charged for trespassing doesn't seem like a viable solution to the problem
 
Yeah, that won't be my next step.
 
@MadScientist At least here in the U.S., you're only considered "trespassing" if you make forced entry
 
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog I was extrapolating a bit there
 
10:28 PM
They almost certainly have building security. It's not like you can just walk into their office and ask for David.
 
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog what on earth would that achieve? "Sorry, but we don't have anyone available to talk to you right now. Please contact us via email".
 
But in all seriousness, see if you can meet in person with a Stack Exchange employee. (I've done so, but to be fair they weren't an employee at the time)
 
Hard to do when they won't answer my requests to discuss the matter (or even tell me what specifically they think I did wrong).
I'd be happy to meet and discuss. I think it would be mutually-beneficial to do so.
 
They're hiding behind legal issues now, which doesn't seem to allow any fast resolutions
 
Reminds me of the Wikimedia Foundation's Knowledge Engine fiasco. They refused to give details about the funding of that project, citing "donor privacy" issues, and only did so after community members contacted the donor, who said there were no privacy issues on their end
 
10:35 PM
A standard method for settling disputes is to agree on what the settlement looks like and agree not to litigate it. As soon as litigation is involved, costs go way up, discovery puts private information at risk, and things get overall stressful. Don't we all want to avoid that?
 
mag
@MonicaCellio What do you have planned in the current state of things?
 
That's true, but there are people who actively litigate things in the hope of coming up with a formal ruling that can later be used as a case precedent
 
mag
Doesn't seem like peer pressure is working towards anything
 
It's totally possible to get to a place where they resolve the defamation to my satisfaction and I agree not to sue for damages. That's achievable, if they want to fix this.
@mag I'm going to limit what I say there.
 
But it can backfire if the court rules against you. That happened to someone once, and to top it off the U.S. Congress passed a law explicitly banning the practice the defendant did
 
mag
10:37 PM
Thats understandable, but it looks like your options are limited right now
 
@MonicaCellio My impression is that they're not talking to you for legal reasons. No idea if that makes sense or not, I simply don't know enough about that in general, and not enought about the specific situation.
 
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog yeah, I'm not looking for a case of first impression or the like. (BTDT.)
 
mag
defamation is incredibly hard and costly to litigate and very fact specific. I'm sure they know this too and don't intend to supply you any ammunition
and avoid naming any reasons or anything to not give out anything that could be used against them
 
@mag they have made false factual claims.
 
mag
legally, no reason is always better then a bad or actionable reason, or even the chance that what you give might be an actionable reason
 
10:38 PM
They must know that.
 
mag
I have no special insight into their processes, but evidently either not or they don't think you would sue
or they made a cost benefit analysis and decided it's unlikely enough to sue that further engagement isn't worth it, from a purely business perpective. If that is the case, nobody will ever say that and nothing further will happen
 
Could be lots of things, yeah.
Could also be egos driving decisions for all we know.
Could be fear of being seen as backing down by the left if they admit they screwed up, even though their process failure isn't about the CoC.
 
mag
In any case, there's an impasse
 
There's also dinner. TTYL. :-)
 
mag
It seems from my current perspective that the way this'll end is the way most outrages end. nothing happens and 3 months on everyone will get angry at you if you still bring it up for beating a dead horse
for a recent example see the blizz hongkong situation
 
10:46 PM
My guess is that they're worried about legal issues as well as a twitter post calling them bigots getting traction with all the verified influencer types. It takes a whole lot of courage these days to tell the mob to pound sand.
 
What I really don't like is that SE has effectively painted a false picture that anyone who associates with Monica is associating with bigotry and anti-LGBT+ rhetoric.
5
 
There's a very good reason why I stay pseudonymous on the internet, and this is it...
It limits the damage if anyone goes on a political assassination campaign.
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog I've never even considered Monica has any kind of anti-LGBT mentality. She doesn't give off that aura at all.
 
@forest Absolutely right
 
*sigh*
 
11:02 PM
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog Where have they done that? Just in the Register article and the first “apology”?
 
It was a non-apology apology, unfortunately.
 
@divibisan "effectively"
 
A "we're sorry that this didn't go over as well as we hoped" kind of apology.
 
> Public figures often apologize after making controversial statements. There are reasons to believe, however, that apologizing makes public figures appear weak and risk averse, which may make them less likeable and lead members of the public to want to punish them.
 
"I am sorry that anyone was hurt by my decision to do [x]. I'm not sorry that I did [x]"
 
11:03 PM
@DavidA I'm pretty sure the dynamics of politicians or public figures are pretty different from those of company executives or staff on the internet.
> You have already voted, but the voting has been cleared by a moderator
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog I tried to star that, but it was denied by a mod.
Oh well.
 
ROs can clear stars
 
They cleared it within like... 2.5 seconds of me starring it :D
Are your comments not permitted to be starred or something? Or am I not allowed to star?
 
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog Yeah, wan’t sure if there were more
 
(testing if it's automated, one sec)
 
11:05 PM
I really don't care about my messages being starred
 
Guess it isn't automated, I starred a random comment of yours and it stayed up for 10 seconds (I manually removed it). I wonder what was wrong with what I starred, then?
OK so it looks like it's specific to things I star (not specific to posts you create that get starred), since I starred someone else's post and that star too was removed.
(testing if stars can individually be removed or if they can only be removed in bulk)
 
I think that true apologies where you demonstrate vulnerability are well-received (except by those who pounce on the weakness). Non-apology apologies are generally worse than silence.
 
I think that's spot on. Non-apology apologies are viewed as dishonest.
Heh, it seems that if I add my own star to an existing starred message, all the stars are cleared. :D
It's like I have the dangerous power to censor whatever I want just by associating with it!
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog I think it isn't fully fixed, since I tried to star it again to see if the message was the same, but now it defaults back to the old "it's too late to undo this operation" message. It's funny how I'm learning so much about the chat system just because I'm targeted by ROs.
 
I guess it's not fixed. There's a proper message, but it's overridden by the "too late" message so it only shows up if you try to redo it in time.
 
ah
 
11:49 PM
6 hours ago, by user58
Stuff from the middle of an argument tends to not belong on the starboard, especially if it's dependent on context.
applies pretty generally to things that rely on context, especially if they're likely to be touchy subjects
you ain't being targeted
 
Yep I read that. Didn't star anything from the middle of arguments or are context-specific.
 
and thus my explanatory message
we don't tend to target folks, just keep the peace
it'd be blindingly obvious if we were targeting
 
I was targeted here before, and that was blindingly obvious. But that was mod(s), not ROs.
Had nothing to do with stars though.
 
kinda doubt the mods would do that, but... eh. wasn't here for it.
 
Well to be fair I was being a bit annoying, but still!
 
11:57 PM
that... does tend to get moderators on your case, yes
solution: not doing that
 
I'm past that all now, since Monica's case seems like a far greater injustice than mine.
 

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