Tavern on the Meta

Stormblessed

12:06 AM

Are keyboard shortcuts mainly for accessibility?

Feeds

Well, there's one right here at the bottom, where it says "53."

Stormblessed

I’ve never noticed them before

Journeyman Geek

@Stormblessed after a fashion

Some folks just don't like to use a mouse

Stormblessed

Do you use them?

Journeyman Geek

Nope

Stormblessed

12:08 AM

Does it mess up responsive mobile, or can I still use my phone normally with them on?

Journeyman Geek

No idea

Stormblessed

12:56 AM

Why don’t we have a feed?

Journeyman Geek

1:12 AM

what feed?

user1306322

1:47 AM

there is a chance it's just me but can someone middle-click the page number buttons on a network activity page and tell me if there's any css applied to the page in a new tab

LinkBerest

I think one of my students just posted a question about an assignment and I'm actually impressed (its a good question and the project is independent so not a "gimme answers!" type question)

....I'm mildly (and happily) shocked by this :)

user384163

@LinkBerest links or it didn't happen /s

LinkBerest

no (sorry)

don't like associating this account with specific assignments

user384163

meh. That's reasonable

LinkBerest

still it's just nice to see in this sea of nastiness I've been seeing lately

Trasiva

1:57 AM

@LinkBerest Oh c'mon, unleash the downvote horde!

Sarcasm for the record, before the flag fairies show up.

user1306322

is there an experiment going on with answers getting upvotes from users without their knowledge?

Trasiva

That wouldn't be accurate or appropriate

StephanS

yo

Journeyman Geek

@LinkBerest so you saying they bumped themselves a grade? ;p

user1306322

does this look good to anyone? stackexchange.com/users/activity/1/?page=2&filter=all

looks like this wasn't supposed to work at all stackexchange.com/users/-1/community?tab=activity

LinkBerest

2:09 AM

considering I tell my classes they can use SO (or Reddit or etc) for their personal projects as long as they correctly cite the usage (and over-usage = same as over citations in any essay) - not really a bump (their using a DB which is not required so already on the high-end)....still a very pleasant surprise I must say

StephanS

it looks beautiful

Journeyman Geek

So... I ordered a cheap dodgy chinese mechanical keyboard

and the description has this gem

StephanS

very accurate

user1306322

how did they know when to use c or k

Shog9

Kacakaca-Kacakaca-Kacakaca!

Journeyman Geek

2:11 AM

(I have too many keyboards ._.)

LinkBerest

not possible

if you have to many then you just have enough to make a dog house

Journeyman Geek

@LinkBerest 2 blackwidows, (gen 1 and 2, cherry blues), a logitech wireless, an iogear HTPC keyboard....

StephanS

Shog rhyme something with Kacakaca other then Kacakaca

Shog9

Primus - Too Many Puppies

►

LinkBerest

or glue the keys on a cup and you have a cool holder for your pens

Trasiva

2:13 AM

Wow, pulling ou the Primus. A plus.

Journeyman Geek

on order, that chinese thing

kono.store/products/keystone-analog-mechanical-keyboard and one of these, with the beam spring option and PBT keycaps, 87 key

LinkBerest

@JourneymanGeek that's not too many. That's too few - keep going until you've built houses for all the doggies! ;)

Journeyman Geek

and I have ONE PC with a keyboard at the moment

I remote into the router and the old PC ;p

Trasiva

I can't wait until I get my curing station design finalized. I'm gonna make ridiculous keys for my keyboard at work

Journeyman Geek

granted, my current keyboard will be handed down to my absent nephew when he is old enough XD

LinkBerest

2:14 AM

that's cheating!....but I do the same thing with a few systems I uses for distributed stuff

user1306322

can you tell me what kind of work one can do normally without any F keys or arrow keys or numpad or screenshot, page up/down, etc old.reddit.com/r/electronics/comments/djkymo/… what kind of keyboard is this

Shog9

> Too many puppies are just like me.
Too many puppies are afraid to see.
The visions of the past brought to life again,
Too many puppies, too many dead men.

LinkBerest

my son actually built is own "computer" with a cardboard box and one of my old keyboard/mouse combos

Journeyman Geek

@user1306322 folks who just want to type

Shog9

Man... Sometimes I really miss the '90s

Journeyman Geek

2:15 AM

a 40% keyboard is on my wishlist ;p

LinkBerest

Now I put his tablet (he got last year) in it and connect the keyboard and he loves it (cause he's "coding" just like daddy)

Shog9

That's sweet :-)

user1306322

it's the same as only having a phillips screwdriver and nothing else and calling it "there, I prepared my workbench"

mild insanity

LinkBerest

........though his sister is a better coder (seriously, she's a year younger but has just destroyed all the "hour of code" activities I've given her) but I'd never tell him that

Journeyman Geek

@user1306322 Actually...

user1306322

2:18 AM

how much time must pass since a vote for it to lock?

Journeyman Geek

what else do you need?

Actually I have a wrench

It is useful

LinkBerest

hammer is best tool in a IT toolbox

user1306322

I need Mouse4 and Mouse5 buttons on my mouse

Shog9

I have these plyers... And a rock.

LinkBerest

just grab it every once in a while to remind all the computers whose boss

A rock works too

Journeyman Geek

2:19 AM

handtoolrescue.com/collections/shop/products/…

It feels very nice to just hold.

Also, apparently the original was made by a company called...

King Dick

StephanS

I hear that guy was an a**hole

Shog9

Close, but not quite

user1306322

how much time must pass for a vote to lock in until the post is edited?

LinkBerest

^^ that was horrible. I remove it in shame

Journeyman Geek

@user1306322 that's probably documented on meta somewhere...

user1306322

2:22 AM

yea I can't find it at the moment

Journeyman Geek

15

A: Why can't I change my vote if the post has been edited during the initial 5mn grace period?

This makes sense. I am relaxing the vote undo window to 5 minutes to coincide with the editing grace window.

LinkBerest

I thought it told you when you tried to un-upvote (so just try an un-upvote something you upvoted yesterday?)

user1306322

is it 5 minutes?

somebody posted an answer under my several year old question yesterday and it had my upvote

I could un-upvote and re-upvote it just fine

then I thought "huh weird I don't remember upvoting it initially in the first place"

and then all the pages where the dates of upvotes and reputation gain/loss were already refreshed and lost the time of initial upvote so all I can see now is my latest attempts :I

Journeyman Geek

@Shog9 My dad used our pestle as a hammer for years

user1306322

having a mild lapse of sanity over this

Journeyman Geek

2:25 AM

annoyed my mom to distraction

So yes. He was literally hammering in nails with a rock

Shog9

Y'know what works great as a hammer? A glass bottle

user1306322

is there some way to look up the date of my initial upvote on a post?

Shog9

@user1306322 stackoverflow.com/users/current?tab=votes

Journeyman Geek

@Shog9 my dad....

Shog9

SON!

Journeyman Geek

2:27 AM

He also tried to use a cheap chinese style cleaver as a ... digging tool.

Stormblessed

@JourneymanGeek what the heck

Journeyman Geek

That was an utterly horrible typo

user1306322

@Shog9 (page not found btw) I tried that but it only had the latest date of my final upvote on that post

Shog9

pen knife as a trencher ain't the worst thing

Journeyman Geek

(yes, he is an actual engineer ._.)

@Shog9 wide blade, but... no thickness

and I BOUGHT HIM A TROWEL.

Shog9

2:28 AM

I screwed up the URL

fixed

@user1306322 ah, yeah, that's about what you're stuck with then

LinkBerest

really? I hate pen knives in general and wouldn't think of using them for that

Journeyman Geek

I'm a firm believer in not worrying about spending money on the tools you use every day, but also making do with the best ou do

user1306322

yea I suppose we'll never find out :p

Journeyman Geek

@LinkBerest that's a great reason to use one as a trenching tool

HATE

user1306322

well, even if SE is running a minor hidden auto-upvote conspiracy, eh

Shog9

2:29 AM

I mean... you wouldn't use a good knife...

LinkBerest

....though I did live more rural so maybe in a flower pot/box it wouldn't be as bad

Journeyman Geek

@Shog9 ah, we have no good knives.

user1306322

oh! can you change your vote freely after someone ninja-edits a post?

within the first 5 minutes of posting I mean when the edit history isn't recorded visibly

Journeyman Geek

So, ikea occationally randomly sells these pretty nice, reasonably priced ceramic knives with covers. My dad lost the covers and broke one or two in two.

and since its random we never know when its in stock

Most of our knives these days are from daiso ;p

(dollar store)

LinkBerest

oh, I had a massively chipped pocket knife from when I used to actually hand pin cable (cause I'd use it to pull of covering, screw in the small screws, close it and hammer in a dent in the case, saw out some drywall to run the cable, etc....)....that was the meanest I ever was to a knife

Journeyman Geek

2:32 AM

I now have... 4 hammers

Ikea, heavy, light and crappy one I made as a teenager in shop class.

user1306322

@Shog9 does this page have css for you? stackexchange.com/users/activity/1/?page=2&filter=all

Shog9

naw. It's supposed to be ajax-loaded

user1306322

well, I loaded it like a normal page :p

Shog9

I do that with the inbox there

user1306322

also -1 user's page doesn't work but the links to it exist

Shog9

2:34 AM

yeah

user1306322

well, have a nice weekend everyone, I gotta get back to my backlog of normal human activities for weekends...

Journeyman Geek

eww normal human activities

People do it with NORMAL HUMAN HANDS

LinkBerest

that's discrimination against all the bots

they work hard too! ;)

StephanS

@JourneymanGeek It's a dog-eat-dog world out there

Yeah, Shogs a bot but we don't hold that against it

LinkBerest

^ see a fine example of a hard working bot

Also, I'm putting on Futurama now

Journeyman Geek

2:50 AM

uhm

erf.

Did the legal hub/GDPR erasure thing ever happen?

erf. I'm sure it did

(reference meta.stackexchange.com/questions/310321/… Tim's post, posted_

LinkBerest

Is this about the question about "how do I erase my account (not just delete)?"

Journeyman Geek

Yeah

LinkBerest

if it is, I was looking for the same thing and have yet to find an explicit answer (on meta)

Journeyman Geek

found what I was looking for ._.

3

Q: Where can I download my user data? (GDPR data portability)

The GDPR (not to be confused with GDFR) does mandate data portability, which even Instagram listened to by introducing a user archive download feature. Does the Stack Exchange Network also have such a feature? Jeff Atwood: “We generally don't do preferences” Gladly, this philosophy does not ap...

LinkBerest

yeah, but I don't see a "do this and it will happen" as much as "contact us and we'll try" in that

might be my reading, as someone who works with pretty strict data requirements I have pretty high standards

Journeyman Geek

3:04 AM

Its the closest thing to what OP is asking for :/

LinkBerest

agreed

and I commented as such (to be fair I don't think there is a "real" answer to the OP's question based on the level of mistrust they seem to have)

Journeyman Geek

@LinkBerest some of it is valid, and kinda maginified I suspect

Stormblessed

!!/watch- intelliflareiqboost\.com

LinkBerest

I have my own angry posts from a year ago

I get where its coming from

after a whole year....even I can see its not helping anyone

except maybe to just vent (which SE's model is terrible for)

Journeyman Geek

Well maybe

I do have a few - but there's the whole "Long term influence" thing

though the value of that feels like its getting less and less

LinkBerest

3:12 AM

oh, don't get me wrong I needed to vent back then and still standby my posts but at this point it feels more like: either something changes or its time to move on

Journeyman Geek

@LinkBerest some change takes time

LinkBerest

I'm not going anywhere today (but seriously its been a year since those posts) :)

Journeyman Geek

And an ent would say

" You people are so hasty"

LinkBerest

yes, but Ents are also quick to action once a decision is made

As Saruman learned after they saw the destroyed forest

^ which might be an apt description actually

I also completely understand when people say their main issue is they don't believe SE and how it will enforce (and yes, force is the correct word) this policy change

but again, at this point its just wait and see

Journeyman Geek

@LinkBerest It is a lot

Talk is cheap

LinkBerest

3:20 AM

unless your a voice actor

Journeyman Geek

3:40 AM

LinkBerest

one of these days I'm gonna watch Castle....if only because of Firefly

Journeyman Geek

Its a great show

His new show is pretty good too

though stuffed with failed sci fi alumni ;p

(Has Melissa O'Neil from Dark Matter)

Good show but died on a cliffhanger

LinkBerest

yeah, cause creators didn't know it would be cancelled until too late into season 3 (and yeah, I watched it on SyFy)

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

4:57 AM

@JNat Cross-site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/16843926/jennyscott

Journeyman Geek

6:27 AM

→ 24 messages moved to Chimney

rene

7:21 AM

→ 4 messages moved to Chimney

M.A.R.

7:45 AM

At least it's easily detectable, this new wave

Journeyman Geek

8:06 AM

hmm

5

Q: Could you tell me what was rude about my answer and how I can avoid making the same mistake in future?

Yesterday, I posted a now deleted answer to Does Stack Exchange, Inc. really care about the LGBTQ+ community?. It has been removed by the Community user with a penalty of loosing 100 rep which indicates serial flagging. I do not want to risk another attack on my account so I will refrain from re...

discussion flags deleted-answers code-of-conduct

looks like the answers to this question has attracted a troll

Could we have some flagging assistance please?

Nog Shine

Yes, flagged

djsmiley2k consumer of worlds

flagged.

Went in hoping it was obvious which answer. (It was) lol

John Dvorak

At least it's just poetry :P

Journeyman Geek

@djsmiley2kconsumerofworlds you missed one actually ;p

djsmiley2k consumer of worlds

there comments too?

there's only tywo answers.

Journeyman Geek

8:19 AM

oh there was one other answer

Mari's ok, she's a MSE regular and while we have our differences, she's definately alright.

djsmiley2k consumer of worlds

Sometimes good people post dumb answers (Proof: me).

Journeyman Geek

@djsmiley2kconsumerofworlds to quote g'kar....

in cases like this

> No moral ambiguity, no hopeless battle against ancient and overwhelming forces! They were the bad guys, as you say, and we were the good guys. And they made a very satisfying thump when they hit the floor.

user351483

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, I flagged that nonsense. Flagging other stuff is hard. I want to be able to give people a voice, but not at the detriment to progress.

djsmiley2k consumer of worlds

^^

That, obvious trolly stuff I'll go ahead and flag, when I'm not sure. I'll think about it, then likely wander off :/

Nog Shine

There were two troll answers. One disappeared immediately and the second one took time.

djsmiley2k consumer of worlds

8:25 AM

Ah ok excellent.

And one sane answer?

rene

@NogShine sorry, I was slacking

user351483

But Mari's answer doesn't answer the question? It's just a longly-worded "me too".

djsmiley2k consumer of worlds

"The OP can flag their post and hope they will be luckier than me."

John Dvorak

Meta's quite generous about what counts as an answer

djsmiley2k consumer of worlds

It's a very longly worded around about answer

TL;DR is 'flag for review by mod'

Nog Shine

8:34 AM

Should I flag new answer too @Journey ;)

Raedwald

That question is going to attract lots of borderline posts. Because until a moderator responds, the lack of information in the post (it rightly does not repost the offensive content) makes it a Rosach Blot Test for preconceptions.

Journeyman Geek

@Raedwald and having looked at the post - I'd rather not repost it

And if I vote to close as unclear, I get accused of censorship ._.

user351483

There's just a whole wave of "me too", and "I'm also angry" posts around. I get that volume creates an appreciation of how many people are affected, but there's a lot of noise there that ends up obscuring rather than helping.

djsmiley2k consumer of worlds

Sigh

user351483

The only good sigh is an italicized sigh

Raedwald

8:37 AM

I'm tempted to flag "me too" posts as "not needed". That's what an up vote is for. It's the meta equivalent of a "+1" comment.

Journeyman Geek

ooh

user351483

9:14 AM

I don't have enough rep to see.

Arthur Havlicek

"It looks like writing anything that criticizes the LGBT+ community (or some of its members) seems to be now a suicide because the answer will not be a conversation but a flag-attack. " Is it me, or is criticizing in the first place inapropriate ? We could just answer like this.

3

Christine H. Richards

@Snow I am working on it

user351483

Yeah, I can't comment on things that I can't see. Otherwise I'd be able to comment in a way that might prompt a positive outcome., if I felt that commenting would be appropriate and supportive of the community.

rene

9:47 AM

@ChristineH.Richards while I agree it is far from be nice from @Raedwald to call you out like that, do know that in the last few weeks the stance there is no problem is seen as denying the serious issues these specific group of people faces day in, day out. Your deleted answer has that smell and your line of defense is the same as used by others that seem to care less about a fair treatment. That is now seen as hurtful.

Cerbrus

She's not saying there is no problem though....

People seem to take offense to that answer because at a glance it could be interpreted that way.

So, for a crude comparison, that answer has been Monica'd.

3

Cereal

Deleting things is never received well. It's censorship, and prevents people from forming their own opinion. So people like me wander by, and can't read the original post, can't make my own decision, and just see the argument instead.

rene

@Cerbrus I don't want go there. I tried carefully to explain how things might be interpreted. Take the discussion to the question and write an answer

Tinkeringbell

> I bet you experience no more unfriendly behaviour than any other member on MSE.

I can attest to at least that being false, especially right now.

Cerbrus

@rene The right place for that discussion is under the deleted answer... That's the problem

rene

9:56 AM

the OP provided the text in a pastebin , you can take it from there

Repost it, then?

No.

No!

giggles

So then what? We can't discuss the answer, we cant repost it...

Tinkeringbell

10:01 AM

@Cerbrus Find more stuff to clean up?

2

Bart

Eat stroopwafels?

user194636

This is the link to pastebin. I have copied and pasted the text from the question and re-add the formatting but I now see that it is only available in the pro version. Since the post is locked I could not copy the source but had to use the rendered text. — Christine H. Richards 20 mins ago

Tinkeringbell

@Bart Good idea! They make a perfect a lunch :)

user351483

10:17 AM

@rene You pinged me then deleted the comment while I was about a mile away from the keyboard. Sorry for missing your message.

rene

It became obsolete the minute I posted it. And it still is so I won't repost

djsmiley2k consumer of worlds

@Snow there was othing good about this one lol

i have a small tree to cut down an roots to dig up

user351483

@rene No worries.

rene

thanks

djsmiley2k consumer of worlds

10:33 AM

yeaaaaaaaaah nuked those.

Arthur Havlicek

10:54 AM

I really, really need to work on my diplomacy.

Bart

Why do I feel that's the caption under a photo of you punching someone in the face?

Arthur Havlicek

:P it's just that I am a downvote magnet. I'm not especially disrespectful, just lacking basic diplomacy to express my ideas well

often making too big simplifications etc.

and sometimes its not that and i don't understand at all

Journeyman Geek

@ArthurHavlicek I agree with your most recent answer. Its just... well...

Arthur Havlicek

lacking diplomacy ? :D

Journeyman Geek

Folks disagree on why and where the lines are

StephanS

11:07 AM

sometimes it's hard to understand the room, we've all been there....

I'm reading your last answer and you're writing in absolutes, which is going to make at least 50% of users mad. Absolutes would have been really good to use when all of this started because there was one problem that everyone who was upset was upset about Monica, now that everyone has branch off into their camps try to appeal to a group without painting the opinion as being held by all of SE. It's hard to understand where the ground to stand on is because it keeps moving

Arthur Havlicek

I thought I was allowed to as being paraphrasing the (previous and current) CoC but I definitely see what you mean

StephanS

I really enjoy the answer you left on "Why are the Code of Conduct changes received so negatively, and what can / could have been done to change that?"

Arthur Havlicek

Thanks :)

Journeyman Geek

@ArthurHavlicek I suspect the current COC is still a ... work in progress

StephanS

sometimes it isn't what you say it's how you say it. Don't worry you're not alone, I'm guilty of that too

Journeyman Geek

11:19 AM

.... That sounds oddly familiar....

Clever fella who said that.

StephanS

@JourneymanGeek I took it right from the dog's mouth ;)

Zoe the transgirl

@JourneymanGeek Looks like it is, judging by the most recent staff answer

Journeyman Geek

@Zoethetransgirl Yup

Bart

@JourneymanGeek so far this whole network is still a work in progress ;)

Journeyman Geek

@Bart oh, true

and occationally we have wassnames...

Technical debt, and the thing where old bugs come back

Cereal

11:32 AM

@StephanS That's an important point I think is missed a lot. One problem has given a platform for many, and arguments aren't neccessarily aligning with the topic anymore.

John Dvorak

In today's episode of Question Titles You Wouldn't Believe Don't Come From Arqade: How to find the maximum amount of diamonds in a mine

StephanS

yeah it seems to be the case. If you notice that the topic of discussions has been changing very quickly but the same complain is still aired, the complaint against the company. Some people are just using anger towards a topic in exchange for anger against SE.

Tinkeringbell

It links to stack overflow. Am I missing the joke?

Bart

@Tinkeringbell got edited completely. See history

Tinkeringbell

Can't, I'm on mobile for a few minutes :(

StephanS

11:40 AM

@Cereal I guess life likes playing with dominoes

Raedwald

12:05 PM

There should be a FAQ about "What happens if I disagree with a moderator decision" somewhere. But I can't find it. Does anyone have a link? No I'm not disagreeing with a decision.

Tinkeringbell

@Raedwald The standard FAQ post perhaps? meta.stackexchange.com/q/28867/369802

M.A.R.

@Raedwald I always search for "recourse" and sort by votes.

Raedwald

12:39 PM

Thanks. The magic word is "recourse"

Tinkeringbell

(or the standard list of faq entries) :P

Raedwald

1:40 PM

@Tinkeringbell It was missing from the FAQ index. Fixed.

Tinkeringbell

@Raedwald Ah, that's not good. Thanks! :)

Journeyman Geek

1:55 PM

Well, that's community built

and sometimes stuff slipps through the cracks

Tinkeringbell

I could've sworn it was in there though, and that I had found it through there before :|

LinkBerest

2:21 PM

hmmm....torn on latest post by one of our Greek members (or at least the name is Greek). If it wasn't that I knew this member I would flag R/A and assume troll.....as it is, I know its not and it just makes me go "huh? what the?!"

Journeyman Geek

@LinkBerest sounds true to form

he's german if memory serves

And flag/vote by the post, not the person

LinkBerest

ah, I only looked at the name (and Greek symbols are pretty familiar to people who do a lot of math).

I vote by post, I mostly flag by post (known spammers & new users - given current environment - would not see me giving a post a 2nd read-over though)

Stormblessed

@LinkBerest not Greek, German

LinkBerest

....the name is Greek and everyone sees which post I'm referring to, based on that without having to link to it (to avoid chat/meta effect at least a little), so I call that a win :)

I did not click on the profile link (and to be fair I have American friends who are stationed in places like Germany or Okinawa so location != nationality.....silly profiles ;) )

eh, re-reading it I find it horrible but don't care

or find it horrible that I don't care

not sure anymore

Stormblessed

@LinkBerest what’s that mean?

So there was some talk saying that someone is spamming anonymous posts about this stuff?

LinkBerest

2:36 PM

what's what mean?

"meta effect" (or Greek name - the characters making up the name are Greek characters in this case)

53

A: The Many Memes of Meta

Meme: Meta effect. Originator: Mat (?) Mentioned: MSO comments, 2011-09-08 Background: Increase of voting activities observed on main-site posts that have been exposed at meta. Most ironic when someone complaining to Meta about "unfair downvotes" on another site gets more downvotes. Also se...

^ meta effect

terdon

Not all those who use Greek are Greeks // Not all those who don't use Greek are not Greeks :P

That user even specifies they're not Greek. Probably because various Greeks had assumed they were. I know I had.

Journeyman Geek

3:18 PM

Technically anything on meta cannot be meta effected

202324

3:33 PM

!!/coffee

SmokeDetector

@202324 brews a cup of Affogato for @202324

David A

3:57 PM

19

Q: Users need to be able to remove themselves and all their data from the site

Many users no longer feel safe participating here and don't feel comfortable with SE having data about them. While there is a way to delete your account which will result in all your posts being dissociated and your username replaced with a generic "userNNNN", that isn't enough. Your old userna...

feature-request legal privacy

oh boy. that explicitly goes against the license terms.

2

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