Tavern on the Meta

StephanS

3:03 PM

wow, I've been pinged five times on screen, I feel so popular XD

Journeyman Geek

@StephanS WOW! MUCH PINGINGINGING

Autar

@StephanS Congrats! :D

Trasiva

@StephanS Ping!

StephanS

I should have seen this coming

rene

Ping abuse

Trasiva

3:04 PM

Pong

There, no more ping abuse

Tinkeringbell

SUPERPING! @StephanS :P

Mgetz

@Tinkeringbell do you have to be SUPERFLY to SUPERPING?

rene

Do remember that every ping is also broadcast in the server room. Engineers there got scared

Tinkeringbell

@Mgetz Nope, just blue (or too red)

StephanS

you got to keep them on their toes

Trasiva

3:08 PM

It's Friday, you think they don't have any alerts being actively suppressed until Monday?

LinkBerest

@terdon Win 98 came in floppies (both the "upgrade" and "full" versions)

Trasiva

I remember those days

"Please insert disc x of x"

Wasn't it three?

Journeyman Geek

@LinkBerest pretty sure 95 was the last

25 floppies

LinkBerest

it was like 40 of them (I installed it enough I should know this)

StephanS

@rene what type of engineer doesn't like to hear pings ring ding ding they should all be in an upswing to hear ding ding

Trasiva

3:11 PM

Nevermind, 39. I just googled it

@StephanS Not everyone likes to hear a ding-a-ling or a ring-ring on a Friday when they're trying to sham.

Rubiksmoose

R/A: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/334900/…

user102937

@divibisan: I don't speak for all of the mods, but I think most of us were willing to accomodate the new rules. Rules lawyering in the CoC is not the problem, it's the heavy-handed way they decided to flex their muscle over it. It makes the mods feel like SE doesn't have their back; if you can't have a candid conversation about some future rule without being fired, then what can you have a candid conversation about? — Robert Harvey 1 min ago

Journeyman Geek

@Rubiksmoose I was too slow, and regret seeing what that was

LinkBerest

yeah, we had a couple of specialty Touchscreen based "Gift/Baby/Wedding" registry customer-facing POS systems (cutting edge in 98) that did not have CD-Roms (we built the base off of older systems and used up a lot of room adding all the needed ports for the touchscreens) so I got really used to that install process

Gwideon

hello

Rubiksmoose

3:16 PM

@JourneymanGeek :(

user102937

Hello @Gwideon. Did you come back for more abuse? :)

Trasiva

I wish I had the rep to see deleted posts/answers sometimes.

LinkBerest

Our main systems were DOS & Cobol based at the time and the upgrade to Linux based ones (using Java/C++) was amazing!

Gwideon

no I'm not posting on meta today

Trasiva

Then I remember seeing some of them and I really don't, lol

Journeyman Geek

3:17 PM

@Trasiva entirely cynically? Now is the best time to get rep

Gwideon

not after yesterday

Journeyman Geek

and its a clickthrough if you're a 10ker and ITS YOUR OWN FAULT

LinkBerest

okay, ending nostalgia now :)

user102937

@Gwideon It's just a cesspool right now, best avoided.

Gwideon

i'm just here because this chat room is fun

SecretAgentMan

3:18 PM

@Gwideon is it the llamas?

Gwideon

nah it's the puns

user102937

Oh, God. I just had a Winamp moment.

StephanS

I think there might be a dog in this room but I don't know where

Trasiva

@JourneymanGeek I've tried to get rep. But people have gotten...upset over some of my answers and they get nuked from orbit. Or someone comes in here and begs for flags and gets them.

user102937

We're all dogs here.

Trasiva

3:19 PM

@RobertHarvey Winamp was ahead of its time. Change my mind.

Emilie

@RobertHarvey Um.

Journeyman Geek

@Trasiva so post less upsetting answers ;p

Gwideon

@RobertHarvey I'm more of a fox but close enough

SPArchaeologist-様

@JourneymanGeek 50% 50% with whoever decided it was a good idea to let deletion due to rude content and deletion due to standard reasons be handled at the same way at UI level?

Trasiva

@JourneymanGeek Or people could get thicker skin, lol.

OrangeDog

3:20 PM

@StephanS hello?

Journeyman Geek

@Trasiva I hate that arguement

YOU BE LESS STABBY

Gwideon

^

LinkBerest

@RobertHarvey I said ending nostalgia for a reason :P ;)

Trasiva

@JourneymanGeek But...but I like da stabby.

StephanS

@OrangeDog Hello. Are you going to help me find the dog?

Journeyman Geek

3:21 PM

NO REPPY FOR DA STABBY

Trasiva

Ugh, fiiiine

Journeyman Geek

SPArchaeologist-様

anyway, have to go. Have a good weekend if you are a normal user I guess. Mods instead will have a lot of fun discussing the new revisions over the weekend...

Trasiva

@JourneymanGeek I'll have you know I hit rep gain cap once. Then someone cried foul on my answer and it got deleted :(

Gwideon

sadness

Trasiva

3:23 PM

I have the badge to prove it!

To be fair though, it was slightly harsh, if factual.

Kevin B

o/

user102937

@DavidG I found out the scoop on that; looks like Jon met with Shog last night and wanted to convey things over voice chat; and while they were doing that Jon asked Shog to immediately remove his diamond. The normal process dumps us in a queue and as CMs are able to get to it they do. Right now things are a bit... backed up. — George Stocker ♦ 3 hours ago

user102937

@KevinB Don't ask if you can ask, just ask.

LinkBerest

Jon was a shock

Gwideon

I feel bad that we can't get along

user102937

3:28 PM

@Gwideon Folks in marginalized groups don't. Many of them feel like creating conflict is the only way to get real change. Maybe they're right.

LinkBerest

If I was to pick the one SO mod who interacted the most (through chat esp) with normal users it would have been him and after George.....speechless

202324

@JourneymanGeek what's the app?

LinkBerest

I am not discounting other doggies who interact with us normal users (and maybe in this room) and other mods who interact a lot just Jon always just seemed to be there, ya know?

Journeyman Geek

@202324 its just the usual SE page

Gwideon

@RobertHarvey I personally feel that the only way to get real change is through education not conflict

202324

3:30 PM

no way!

Gwideon

alot of the more chill folks in the lavender community feel this as well

Journeyman Geek

meta.stackexchange.com/users/135565/…

user384163

@RobertHarvey that's not a fair assessment. Please don't speak for groups you aren't a part of

user384163

especially when what you say is derisive and undermining.

Gwideon

also yeah please don't speak for us

user102937

3:31 PM

@AGirlHasNoName Ah, well if you can't rely on outside advocates, if it's always going to be "us" vs "them," then all hope is lost.

202324

@JourneymanGeek Awesome!

user384163

But that isn't advocacy

Gwideon

i'm gonna get out before crap explodes

user102937

Probably a good idea.

Shog9

GOOD MORNING!

Magisch

3:32 PM

gesticulates There is no war in ba-sing-se

2

Gwideon

good morning shog

user102937

Not yet. I haven't had my second cup of coffee.

StephanS

@Shog9 It's an OK morning at best

Magisch

morning shog

Shog9

lines up row of tall glasses for bloody marys

LinkBerest

3:33 PM

oh, that's a good idea - goes to get another cup

.....of coffee

StephanS

!!/coffee

SmokeDetector

@StephanS brews a cup of Cappuccino for @StephanS

Magisch

see what shog is doing here is memetic deflection of tension

Shog9

irishs Link's coffee

Magisch

one of the marks of good cm work

user102937

3:33 PM

@Shog9 Are you here to keep the peace?

LinkBerest

feels a nice buzz since his coffee already had rum in it

Gwideon

probably

Shog9

Naw, I'm here to serve.

Magisch

can I get a green tea

terdon

@LinkBerest Are you sure? I could have sworn I remember a 98 CD.

Trasiva

3:34 PM

Morning Shog

Gwideon

i'm gonna go anyways

Shog9

dunks a suspicious looking bag of Lipton's into a cup of tepid water & hopes for the best

LinkBerest

@terdon yeah, it had both (very sure I installed it like once a week with the floppies at one point)

Journeyman Geek

@Shog9 is there any other sort?

Stevoisiak

@Shog9 Thank you for your responses on MSE. You've always consistently been an understanding voice on SE.

terdon

3:35 PM

@LinkBerest Ah, both may well be true.

Shog9

that relies mostly on folks forgetting all those times when I'm not

terdon

But then, that was the last time I was a Windows user, so it's been a while.

LinkBerest

yeah, XP (technically ME but let's just ignore that) was when they dropped floppies altogether (though you could still make a floppy boot disk at the time)

Magisch

but that is kind of the point isnt it

authenticity makes people forget the bad things

Shog9

or just... longevity ;-P

terdon

3:36 PM

@LinkBerest Oh man, ME! I don't think I ever even saw that one, it went by so fast!

LinkBerest

..............I did

Trasiva

We don't talk about ME

Journeyman Geek

It wasn't too bad if you downgraded from 98SE

user102937

Lipton's is only good for making sun tea. For any other purpose it is worthless.

Journeyman Geek

Was actually pretty stable

terdon

3:36 PM

@Trasiva Actually, sorry to break it to you, but we talk about you all the friggin' time!

drumroll

LinkBerest

@JourneymanGeek until you tried to do anything with the network

or ports

Trasiva

I'll allow it, lol

Journeyman Geek

@RobertHarvey If I actually liked tea , I'd get disowned for drinking that ;p

LinkBerest

or ...... look I don't like remembering that

Stevoisiak

@Trasiva For a minute, you made me think ME was some dark forgotten Stack Exchange 1.0 site

Journeyman Geek

3:37 PM

@LinkBerest ran it a few years ;p

Mgetz

@JourneymanGeek ME was fine for a clean install because it wouldn't try to upgrade the drivers. ME was the first instance of WDM taking precedence over DOS drivers.

terdon

Windows Me

Windows Millennium Edition, or Windows Me (marketed with the pronunciation of the pronoun "me" and codenamed Millennium), is a graphical operating system developed by Microsoft as part of its Windows 9x family of operating systems. It is the successor to Windows 98, and was released to manufacturing on June 19, 2000, with general availability on September 14, 2000. Windows Me was the last operating system released in the Windows 9x series which was targeted specifically at home PC users, and included Internet Explorer 5.5, Windows Media Player 7, and the then-new Windows Movie Maker software, which...

Raedwald

Communists drink herbal tea.

Mgetz

sadly older hardware and drivers hadn't updated from DOS or VxDs

user102937

The Alan Parsons Project - Let's Talk About Me

►

Kevin B

3:38 PM

i never used windows me

SPArchaeologist-様

It is always funny to see how the room changes when the floating one is around. Shog, maybe we should put a talking Shog animatronic somewhere in the room - seems just your presence makes people nicer.

StephanS

Yorkshire tea gold is the only real tea

Raedwald

Because proper tea is theft.

Journeyman Geek

@Mgetz the story I heard later was some drivers apparently were more stable and were left alone

Stevoisiak

Ah yes, Windows ME. The prototype for Vista.

user102937

3:38 PM

@SPArchaeologist-様 Shog already is an animatronic. You didn't know that? They used a quantum computer prototype.

Mgetz

@JourneymanGeek stablish, VxDs were generally migrated if possible. But WDM drivers were always more stable

SPArchaeologist-様

@terdon also know as Malebolge Edition

Kevin B

i don't remember vista either... just 98 and xp

Mgetz

@Stevoisiak windows 2k was the prototype for vista

Kevin B

didn't spend much time on the computer back then

LinkBerest

3:39 PM

@JourneymanGeek yeah, it was good for home use but MS never told businesses that they aimed it directly (and only) at home computer users

which made for a nightmare in a corporate setting (but it did get us to finally us Linux where I worked so I guess it was great at at least one thing)

Shog9

@RobertHarvey Fpu bugged Pentium running Windows ME but close enough

Stevoisiak

I'm still sad to see Windows 7 end of lifed

user102937

Windows 7 was solid.

Arthur Havlicek

Linux is solid

:<

Stevoisiak

It feels like we finally convinced people to get off XP

Shog9

3:40 PM

@Stevoisiak Me too, since I'm running my DVR on it

LinkBerest

I still get XP machines

Stevoisiak

At least when XP was dying, people agreed 7 was a good replacement

user102937

@Stevoisiak You mean after all of the hospitals still running it got ransom-wared? Yeah, I'd say it was a good time to switch.

Journeyman Geek

@ArthurHavlicek If you set it up right

Trasiva

@RobertHarvey Shoulda seen Shog1, poor thing ran on an Pentium 2 processor. Couldn't handle all the input.

LinkBerest

3:41 PM

my answer to people with those systems is: I'll move your data over to a new machine with something else

Arthur Havlicek

@JourneymanGeek Nowadays it ships with good defaults on major distros

Mgetz

@Stevoisiak people forget how much XP was despised in the early years due to driver issues.

Journeyman Geek

@ArthurHavlicek eh

LinkBerest

costs me contracts sometimes but its not worth the price every time

Journeyman Geek

But when it dosen't...

Raedwald

3:41 PM

Open the pod bay doors, @Shog9

StephanS

Windows 7 was very easy to break into cough cough so I've heard

Stevoisiak

@RobertHarvey Ready for that to be repeated with 7 ransomware?

I'm sure it will be

Arthur Havlicek

nonetheless I wish I had an XP machine

there are abandonwares that only works on XP

Mgetz

@Stevoisiak I'm honestly not, from a kernel perspective it has a lot of issues

user102937

@Stevoisiak The military industrial complex is slow about everything. But even they know you don't stay on an OS that is end-of-lifed.

Shog9

3:43 PM

@Raedwald I'm sorry, raewald, but I can't pronounce your name properly

Mgetz

@RobertHarvey you say that but until MS basically paid the DoD to upgrade the tanks ran windows 95

Trasiva

@RobertHarvey HA! Boy, let me tell you some things I saw in the Military at the end of 2011....

Stevoisiak

@RobertHarvey My laptop at work is still 7. We're still finishing up our upgrades

Trasiva

Don't forget the Navy warships also running on XP still

LinkBerest

@RobertHarvey lol....oh, that's a great joke ;)

Stevoisiak

3:44 PM

@Mgetz I'd be interested to learn more about that.

Raedwald

We were earlier talking about the US military getting ride of 8" floppy disks.

Stevoisiak

Anywhere I can read up on that?

Trasiva

Oh, then there's the things I saw at the NSA, but we don't talk about the NSA.

user102937

You can use an EOL OS safely if it never gets anywhere near an Internet connection.

user102937

And you don't plug in thumb drives.

user102937

3:45 PM

or any outside media.

user102937

And lock it in a closet

user102937

and don't plug it in.

rene

@RobertHarvey That is what ARPANET runs on, right?

LinkBerest

and don't open the closet

Stevoisiak

@RobertHarvey You can try to keep people offline, but: zdnet.com/article/…

People will find a way

Journeyman Geek

3:46 PM

@Stevoisiak which reminds me

StephanS

if you don't own one you can't get hacked

Arthur Havlicek

@Stevoisiak No way...

user102937

Most software nowadays assumes an Internet connection. A good percentage of it won't even work without one.

Journeyman Geek

I can delete the corporate image I downloaded in case the upgrade tool for work laptop failed

Stevoisiak

Never assume best practices when users are involved

Trasiva

3:47 PM

Never assume best practices when people are involved. FIFY

user102937

Never assume malice when stupidity could be involved.

Trasiva

^

StephanS

stupidity is always involved

user102937

There's a decent convo below this post, if you're so inclined:

LinkBerest

and never assume you can make something "idiot proof"

user102937

3:48 PM

8

A: Does the company want to enforce CoC irrespective of the backlash it received?

The actual wording changes are documented on the Stack Exchange blog, where they write: ... the Code of Conduct requires people to use the correct gender pronouns ... This has always been true of our Code of Conduct and we are making it more explicit with this language. This isn’t a new rule ...

LinkBerest

you will only prove - you are the idiot

Trasiva

There's always a better idiot out there.

Stevoisiak

To be fair, I think we've all done dumb things in fields we don't know well

Mgetz

@Stevoisiak I created a room for it if you're curious we can discuss it there

Stevoisiak

@Mgetz Joined

Trasiva

3:50 PM

@Stevoisiak I worked for a small company who once told me that I'd never be able to truly break their embedded system. It took me less than 25 minutes to stick it in a CRC loop.

user102937

Cyclic Redundancy Checksum?

Trasiva

Yep

user102937

Well. My list of the Two Worst Ideas Ever:

user102937

1. Voting machines on the Internet

user102937

2. Voting machines on the Internet

Stevoisiak

3:51 PM

I once wrote a script to interact with a web API at a specified URL. Then a user asked me, "What happens if someone types an invalid url, like google.com?"

Magisch

3. voting machines in general

Stevoisiak

I'd literally never thought of it

Magisch

I write software for a living I do not trust that thing as far as I can throw it

202324

Sorry for arriving late at the tavern brawl before.

Trasiva

Don't tell me that your sd card stored linux embedded system is fool proof

user102937

3:52 PM

Famous last words: "We can make it secure." Yeah, you don't even know what that word means.

Kevin B

but it's linux, so it's unhackable

Trasiva

@Magisch Let's be honest, those of us that write software for a living don't trust most things that are supposed to be secure.

Stevoisiak

My least favorite thing is developer software that assume the user (IE: me) knows what they are doing

Arthur Havlicek

Famous words : There is two infinite things. the universe, and human stupidity. And for universe we're not exactly sure

Magisch

@Trasiva yea

StephanS

3:54 PM

@Trasiva then you can trust me, I'm insecure

Trasiva

Being secure about your insecurities is the first step

But being insecure about your securities is a leap in the wrong direction.

LinkBerest

@Trasiva my last task (project) in my information assurance course was where a company asked the class to test their system (very proud that it was an awesome system with no way in). I got the secretary to give me the wifi password in 5 minutes and her desktop password was on a post-it note on her desk (didn't even need technology - just a polo shirt and khakis).

2

Trasiva

Social engineering is the best engineering

StephanS

@Trasiva XD

Trasiva

They had a small security training here at my work last year. With having worked at the NSA and gotten white hat certified, I got a lot of side looks at the basic stuff they were teaching us in that class, lol.

LinkBerest

3:57 PM

wait, didn't we just have a post on Meta about insecurity and SO?

Trasiva

Insecurity on SO? Whaaat?

Kevin B

an FAQ proposal, yeah... which is weird

LinkBerest

insecurity caused by SO (or more correctly caused by copy & paste coders)

i.e. all those interns which double my workload (or more)

terdon

Ah, the joy of having to explain to some idiot "tech support" that no, sharing my email address and my password with them is not safe just because our chat is over SSL.

LinkBerest

Don't worry, we hired an intern to help you on that project is like the worst phrase I hear when working

Trasiva

4:00 PM

The intern we had this summer was actually pretty slick.

terdon

"Me: so you can actually see my password in plaintext on your system?" "TechSup: Yes, but don't worry, our chat is encrypted".

Trasiva

Especially once he got over his insecurities and wasn't afraid to ask questions

Arthur Havlicek

Most interns I saw were actually pretty good

Never supervised one, but would like to

Trasiva

The first two weeks or so tend to be hell

The trick is to forcefully drag them out of their shell

LinkBerest

yeah, its not the intern itself its the "we just hired a new person with no experience when your in the middle of the project" - its extra work dealing with getting an experienced person onboarded

Stevoisiak

4:03 PM

@terdon Reminds me of this gem: twitter.com/virginmedia/status/1162756227132198914?s=20

Arthur Havlicek

@LinkBerest they treated that in mythical man month, as a paradox. Bring people on a project, you will push back the deadline

can't remember exact wording though

LinkBerest

someone for whom this is their first real-world experience....ugh. (I don't mind when they are added at the start but people don't seem to have read any project management anything around here)

terdon

@Stevoisiak oh man...

Mgetz

Brooks's law

Brooks' law is an observation about software project management according to which "adding human resources to a late software project makes it later". It was coined by Fred Brooks in his 1975 book The Mythical Man-Month. According to Brooks, there is an incremental person who, when added to a project, makes it take more, not less time. This is similar to the general law of diminishing returns in economics. == Explanations == According to Brooks himself, the law is an "outrageous oversimplification", but it captures the general rule. Brooks points to the main factors that explain why it works this...

David A

@terdon still not as bad as this: serverfault.com/questions/293217/…

Arthur Havlicek

4:05 PM

Thanks, its exactly this

LinkBerest

@ArthurHavlicek I can - and you are correct but well when you have people who think "I'm a manger so project management should be easy" (a common occurrence around here)....eh, it brings me contracts fixing there stuff I guess

terdon

@DavidA Oh wow, yes, I remember that.

OrangeDog

@LinkBerest it's easier to pick things up in the middle of the project then at the start when there's nothing to go on. As long as they didn't expect an extra person to make it go faster then that's fine.

LinkBerest

^ see the last statement is exactly what they expected

last one was literally along the lines of: PM: your just making some database changes so this person should be great with the data entry at least ...... Me: we don't have any data entry, we are building automated process to remove your data entry - remember?

OrangeDog

oh dear

LinkBerest

4:09 PM

add to that, it was in Spark so "database changes" was missing the point a bit by itself

David A

Could be some tortured reference to a hive metastore.

LinkBerest

Note, my experience is not normal because companies which have good systems don't usually need to hire an outside contract to fix their stuff.

David A

Good systems are more rare than massive amounts of technical debt.

3

LinkBerest

fwiw, building signal processing systems is now top of the list of my favorite things (so much still left to do!!! :) ;)

SecretAgentMan

4:38 PM

@divibisan Thank you.

Stevoisiak

I wonder what the reaction would have been if the COC change was posted without the FAQ

M.A.R.

@Stevoisiak The same.

Stevoisiak

For me personally, I was ok with the COC change up until I read the FAQ

The good reception of the community proposed FAQ seems to indicate I'm not the only one that thinks this way

+257/-20

I'm not saying people wouldn't be upset. I just don't think it'd be the level of anger we have now

Kevin B

lets just wait and see what we get tuesday

LinkBerest

4:55 PM

I was fine with the CoC the mods helped with

terdon

@Stevoisiak The content isn't fundamentally different, but the tone is completely different. And tone is important.

5

Stevoisiak

@terdon Exactly.

LinkBerest

sigh that feeling when you get a bowl of soup that looks delicious and then take a bite and realize looks can be decieving

Bart

How does one bite soup?

djsmiley2k consumer of worlds

ws picture of soup har har

Bart

5:09 PM

Photosoup?

2

Trasiva

@LinkBerest That's why I makes it

Tinkeringbell

5:23 PM

@Bart I don't think there's another way to eat erwtensoep.

Bart

@Tinkeringbell that's in its own category. If the spoon doesn't stand up straight it's no good

user194636

@Stevoisiak It also has the advantage of not being posted by a staff member, or being instantly tagged faq (rather than faq-proposed)

Tinkeringbell

@Bart Well... I'm not fond of it either way. But yeah, I've heard the sentiment, same for bruine bonensoep.

Bart

Oooh, good batch of erwtensoep every winter. That's something I still make here.

Tinkeringbell

Mom still makes it, together with oliebollen, for New Year's Eve each year. And then sometimes on Sundays too (as that's traditionally a kind of 'soup day' here anyways)

user102937

5:26 PM

@Trasiva Looks delicious.

Trasiva

@RobertHarvey I call it loaded potato soup. 'cause it's not boring and it's got lots of flavor. Plus I make it with smoked chicken stock to add that smokey flavor naturally.

user102937

5:55 PM

Recipe, please.

user102937

Actually, there a re a couple on the Internet that look pretty good. But there's something about the color of your soup that is rather pleasing.

Trasiva

@RobertHarvey pepperplate.com/… I couldn't remember where I saved it, lol

It's the carrots, they add a bit of golden color to it

user102937

Thanks. :)

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