Tavern on the Meta

1:04 AM

@JuliaSilge Hey Julia! Wanted to check in and see if this is still planned. I know there are some hairy problems to solve. If ya'll decide not to go ahead with it, we'd like to run with it as a community project.

Journeyman Geek

3:56 AM

hola

Magisch

6:01 AM

→ 12 messages moved to Chimney - Housekeeping

Morning

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

6:30 AM

chaos-emerald-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/78160/… (@Shadow @rene)

cv-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/313397/…

Nog Shine

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Already did.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Note that the proposed target used to be called List of all badges with full descriptions before I changed it to make it not come across as a mere list.

@NogShine You selected the wrong reason...outdated muscle memory?

Nog Shine

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog When I see a question which should be asked on other site, I generally select that reason rather than software that powers Stack Exchange one.

rene

7:03 AM

delv-pls 20K meta.stackexchange.com/questions/313393/… /cc @Bart @ShadowWizard @JourneymanGeek @Glorfindel

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@NogShine That close reason is for meta questions that only pertain to one specific site, and should be asked on a per-site meta instead, not for any general question that can be asked on a certain other site. Read the entire close reason, especially the last sentence.

Nog Shine

noted

Journeyman Geek

@rene one more!

Somewhat Memorable Name

7:57 AM

I... aahh!

Somewhat Memorable Name

8:08 AM

I just finished reading the extended comment chat for 'manspreading' HNQ

and now I really wonder about my starred message...

Magisch

Do you want me to clear the stars and/or move it?

user310756

8:27 AM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog yay TelKitty coming up soon to stay and meet the horses :D

Derpy

please, don't start the echidnaplaining carousel again

user310756

@Magisch you're RO now?

Journeyman Geek

@YvetteColomb ya

user310756

@Derpy ?

user310756

@JourneymanGeek great news and congrats @mag

Journeyman Geek

8:29 AM

lol

on?

user310756

now we can finally boot you @JourneymanGeek ;)

Journeyman Geek

lol

user310756

@JourneymanGeek I mean for Mags

Journeyman Geek

ahh

user310756

hehe

user310756

8:29 AM

keep up with the horse woman man

Derpy

@YvetteColomb nope, wasn't speaking about you, don't wory Yvette. You just happened to post right before me. I was talking to @Magisch and @SomewhatMemorableName

Journeyman Geek

@YvetteColomb well we needed a top up with Catija becoming a CM, and I kinda nearly blew my top at someone here so... a few extra heads of variable levels of calmness helps ;)

user310756

3

user310756

@JourneymanGeek I don't believe you're capable of blowing your top. You're so good natured

user310756

@Derpy I wanted to understand the play on words ... curious indeed

Journeyman Geek

8:32 AM

Everyone has limits ;)

Magisch

This makes me realize I never actually saw Journeyman get really mad

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch You don't want to ;)

user310756

@JourneymanGeek I want to make demands at the next town meeting. I demand a starred horse pic in this room at all times. I think this is reasonable and totally within the scope of the network

Journeyman Geek

@YvetteColomb you supply those foal pictures, and I think folks will do the needful :)

user310756

foal at 5 weeks and 1 day

user310756

8:34 AM

@JourneymanGeek qu?

Journeyman Geek

starring them that is ;)

Magisch

the "do the needful" is indian english right?

user310756

needful - isn't that a Stephen King book?

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch it is ;p

Magisch

I've actually never seen it used outside of indian english

Journeyman Geek

8:34 AM

actually I've never seen it used outside indian IT folks

user310756

ahhh I hadn't heard it since I read needful things

user310756

@JourneymanGeek well that's no good. I was wanting to make unreasonable demands and start a public row

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch well I'm not that far seperated from the subcontinent

@YvetteColomb for starters said demands need to be things people wouldn't do ayway

or at least agree with

@Magisch oh, I've slammed car doors and stomped off in the past year. Typically though getting angry angry means losing control

its... not efficient

Derpy

aaaaaaahhhh that? Short version. It is a reference to Sonic Boom. Long version: one episode of Sonic Boom has Amy Rose (a female hedgehog) making a comment about "being able to break the glass ceiling". Another character - Knuckles (male echidna, also portrayed as "very stupid" in Sonic Boom because obviously muscles == stupid in the writers mind) then replies that she shouldn't let other make her think that the glass ceiling exist in the first place.
This was probably an attempt to make the character appear much more considerate than what the usual characterization he gets suggest. That sa…

user310756

@Derpy ahhhh got it and thanks for taking the time to type all that

Somewhat Memorable Name

8:47 AM

@Magisch I think about moving it (curious why it got so many stars...)

Derpy

Somewhat Memorable Name

@Derpy maybe hedgehogplaining can work...

Derpy

@YvetteColomb btw, the image I just posted shows the actual scene with the original dialogue

Journeyman Geek

@SomewhatMemorableName they can't be bothered at all. Though one uses a certain british term with multiple meanings I shalt not mention here.

Somewhat Memorable Name

Now I feel lost ._.

I feel "they" means "echidna" and "hedgehog", and my mind got stuck there

Journeyman Geek

8:51 AM

well the song is about hedgehogs

Something Bad Happened

9:52 AM

twitter.com/codinghorror/status/1024229860103749633?s=21

Journeyman Geek

cvplz meta.stackexchange.com/questions/313407/…

Magisch

11:36 AM

→ 16 messages moved to Chimney

Derpy

rene

12:15 PM

Is it just the poor research or not usefullness that attract down votes here or is there something else wrong?

Mark Amery

1:11 PM

In case the mod who replied to one of my recent mass-comment-deletion flags (while marking it as helpful) with "if you flag a comment for a thread clean up it will be handled quicker than a post flag" is a tavern regular, FYI, the reason I use post flags for this (and intend to continue) is that sometimes in the past I've had mods not read my comment flag and just delete the single flagged comment instead of the thread.

I'm happy to have my flag take a little longer to get in front of a mod if in exchange I can be sure it'll be correctly handled

rene

@MarkAmery I have been told by Martijn that the cut-off point is 5 comments. I use a post flag if I want a > 5 comments thread nuked in total, occasionally cherry picking comments that need to be kept (mod action will then be delete all, undelete the cherries). For 5 or less comments I flag each comment individually.

Do note I have some stock comments to go in the flag dialog to explain why the comments need to go.

Mark Amery

@rene You're talking about a slightly different tradeoff - between "flag every comment individually" and "use a single flag with a description to indicate that a whole thread needs purging"

This is about whether that single custom flag should be a post flag or a comment flag on an arbitrary comment in the thread

rene

@MarkAmery Yes, I thought you might appreciate that info

Mark Amery

Fair enough. I probably apply approximately the same cutoff myself purely out of laziness ;)

Waiting for that 5 second timeout over and over gets tedious

rene

I would personally always use a post flag for (almost) complete nuke.

also because the custom flag text length on a post can be 500 chars, on a comment only 200.

Somewhat Memorable Name

1:20 PM

comment flag for individual, post flag for comment clean-up

Andy

Hi, as a mod that that woke up and didn't handle the above mentioned flagging, here's my opinion: If a comment thread had a long conversation and has useful comments scattered through out that should remain, individual flags are very useful. If an entire (or almost entire) comment thread can be removed, a post flag is helpful. If there are a handful (you pick a number) of comments to be removed, individual flags are good

Mark Amery

@rene not always a factor for me - I'd guess about 50% of my comment purge flags just say something like "all comments are obsolete and should be purged". More detail is frequently unnecessary.

rene

TIL mods do sleep ...

Somewhat Memorable Name

and for the record, my declined comment flag on Anime.SE is 22% :)

rene

@MarkAmery I like to have the feeling I have a good conversation with our mods.

Mark Amery

1:24 PM

@rene "Good morning, friendly moderator. For your information, all comments beneath this post are obsolete and can be purged. I hope your loved ones are well and the harvest is good in your locale this season."

rene

That is my stock comment ...

Mark Amery

:)

Journeyman Geek

@MarkAmery heh.

Mods heavily disagree on that. I prefer one comment per thread cause I read all of it. Unless specific comments need to be cherry picked for... extra attention.

But some mods prefer individual flag

and you cannot make everyone happy :)

Mark Amery

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, I've ranted about this before: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/338911/1709587

Somewhat Memorable Name

and some mods hate fun-hater, so fun comments will be left behind :)

Mark Amery

1:28 PM

anyway, I oughta get back to work

Mithrandir

I prefer flagging each comment, especially if some are R/A.

Mark Amery

my boss ain't paying me to hang out in the tavern, nice though it is here!

Journeyman Geek

I had a quiet day and... watched a movie at work ;p

Mithrandir

...which can lead to situations like the screenshots in In the flag summary, put the pending flags on top of old ones for flags on the same post

Derpy

2:48 PM

Someone in another room was talking about ticks.

That made me realize SharePoint can be considered a tick too

in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 1 min ago, by Derpy

It sticks without you noticing.
It drinks your blood
Carries illness and diseases
If you don't remove it quickly and completely you will get even more complications...

Somewhat Memorable Name

✔

rene

4:28 PM

I know most routes users visit on the site are tracked for analysis. Is this also true for private routes, for example the /admin routes? If so, would it be possible to tell how many mods/ how often they click through on the page that has counter that shows how many annotations/suspensions a user has to the history of that user? Context: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/371810/…

Andy

I use a user script that loads that automatically.

Somewhat Memorable Name

Does it also track non-mod users who accidentally open that link...?

rene

@SomewhatMemorableName yes

@Andy are you biased by that number? High / low / any ...

Andy

@rene Probably not (but...bias...). I use it to get a quick overview of user history though. It helps to see why we've contacted a user in the past. If I see several previous contacts for the reason I need to contact them today, then that increases the likelihood of needing a suspension or longer suspension. If, on the other hand, the user has been the victim of serial voting multiple times, it helps to know that too

Somewhat Memorable Name

Tim posted

and Tim has been suspended twice...

Andy

4:42 PM

Read the post...

rene

@Andy fair enough. Thanks for the insight.

Somewhat Memorable Name

... for science!

Optimus Prime

Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Finally made it

Reported 2 issues to google, for one, got a reward and for another one, they said it isn't eligible for a reward. Hall of fame isn't processed yet. For second bug, listed on 4th page (out of 15 pages) on Google Honorable mentions

Somewhat Memorable Name

@OptimusPrime grats! :)

Optimus Prime

thx

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

5:56 PM

chaos-emerald-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/313427/filter-out-tags (@Shadow)

rene

7:03 PM

> Logout of SO (might be hard [...])

Mark Amery

7:17 PM

@JourneymanGeek Indian English has a bunch of deviations from British and American English that are mostly IT-specific. I find them pretty interesting.

I admit that using the plural "codes" instead of the singular mass noun "code" is just plain ugly to my tastes

But "updation" and "upgradation" as the noun forms of "update" and "upgrade" is very logical

Far more consistent with "install"->"installation" and "delete"->"deletion" than our strange approach of just reusing the verbs as nouns

πάντα ῥεῖ

Indian English has some weirdos yep!

Indian English

Indian English is any of the forms of English characteristic of India. == Status of English in India == Hindi is the official language of the Union Government of India. However, even after 70 years of Indian Independence from Britain, English is still retained with a status of the "subsidiary" official language. Only a few hundred thousand Indians, or less than 0.1% of the total population, have English as their first language.According to the 2001 Census, 12.6% of Indians know English. An analysis of the 2001 Census of India concluded that approximately 86 million Indians reported English as their...

Mark Amery

And, while not IT specific, I also find rather charming their use of "doubt" as an actual enumerable noun (as in, "I have 3 doubts about problem. My first doubt is...") rather than just as a somewhat poetic mass noun ("I am filled with doubt") or vague plural noun ("I have some doubts") as Brits and Americans use it

I think it's a pity (though maybe not too surprising given that it's not their nation's primary language) that many (most?) Indians seem to regard their people's own dialect of English as just being a mildly embarrassing error, and see British English as correct. Indian English speakers outnumber British English speakers, for goodness sake, and "The Queen's English" is one of the few things you'll ever here most Brits get vaguely patriotic about

And software culture is more than happy to buy into the idea of Indian English just being wrong, to the point of quoting a hypothetical person as wanting "teh codez" being a standard way of indicating that they're incapable of speaking proper English.

πάντα ῥεῖ

It would be hard to establish a different official language than English in India, it's part of their unite indian nation IMO. Everything else would probably result in civil wars.

@MarkAmery No, that's just 1337 speech

Mark Amery

Alright, how about this one, @πάνταῥεῖ? meta.stackoverflow.com/q/355906/1709587

πάντα ῥεῖ

I just referred to the "Gimme teh codez plz" meme.

Also known as "Can I haz codez plz!" decorated with a cat pic :3

Mark Amery

7:31 PM

Sure, in that context I suppose it might not be meant as a deliberate reference to Indian English at all

But it still seems a little... distasteful... to me, that (one part of) a standard meme in programmer culture that's generally meant to mark its speaker as a moron who can't construct proper English is something that's in fact correct in a dialect used by a huge fraction of programmers.

πάντα ῥεῖ

It's more a synonym for the ubiquitous script kiddies behavior, not to diminish non native speakers as morons.

Also known as help vampires, but that's forbidden wording now.

Mark Amery

@πάνταῥεῖ I didn't mention non-native speakers at all!

But I think a lot of people conflate person speaking Indian English with non-native speaker and that's kind of exactly the thing I find problematic

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Indian English has broken away from British English and adopted phrases from American English in quite a few ways.

πάντα ῥεῖ

7:48 PM

Indian English is Indian English, just an idiom of it's own (see the WP article above)

Mark Amery

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Yeah, I remember being surprised by some of the Americanisms when I was over there, although I've somehow dropped them all from my memory now

πάντα ῥεῖ

No one would get the idea to call Irish English worse or better than AE or BE, it's just their official language, and Eyre didn't make it as such.

Mark Amery

Hmm - does Irish English have differences from British English besides pronunciation, @πάνταῥεῖ?

I always thought they basically spoke British English with an accent

rene

I would be surprised if they don't have more differences

πάντα ῥεῖ

@MarkAmery Lotta!

Mark Amery

7:55 PM

Just found quora.com/… which has some interesting notes on grammar differences

πάντα ῥεῖ

Well, I'm going to prove that next week, when I'll get over there.

:-) <=== anxious for holidays!

Mark Amery

Enjoy :)

πάντα ῥεῖ

Sure :3
It's been ~30 years ago I've been there. I am curios to see what's changed since then.

And steering a car at the left side of the road is always a little adventure.

Travis J

8:14 PM

For shame, I had to ask a SO question :(

Kevin B

gasp

πάντα ῥεῖ

choke

Travis J

If it is anything like previous experiences it will sit for several weeks with no answer.

πάντα ῥεῖ

Meanwhile mine rarely receive any reasonable answers :P

Travis J

I am not sure what I am asking is even possible, I tried looking in the actual source of the project they use and couldn't find anything that looked like it might be doing what I am looking for.

πάντα ῥεῖ

8:18 PM

That one deleted now on mine was almost an insult.

Travis J

It seems like that deleted answer was essentially just saying, "its LIFO not FILO"

Which seems inaccurate.

πάντα ῥεῖ

Not only that.

It was completely useless crap in regard of the question there.

But delphi seems to be for special people mostly :P

Darn, I know how queues work :-(

Good so!

Travis J

mm, tea

There is a craft tea place near here that has decaf hibiscus green tea that I really like at night.

πάντα ῥεῖ

hibiscus sounds fine, yeah

but well, I'll stick with my beer ;)

Travis J

8:33 PM

Beer is good too, maybe a köstritzer schwarzbier

πάντα ῥεῖ

I'm preferring Lager mostly.

Interesting that you know about that specific brand. Do they also advertise in the US?

Travis J

They have it at Bevmo here in CA, and it is on tap at a few medium end restaurants.

πάντα ῥεῖ

Any european beer is probably better than what's considered beer in the US ;-) (Budweiser's one of the worst I've experienced over there)

Travis J

US beer tends to be quantity > quality.

We have 6 packs of 16oz cans (96oz total) for $2.99 here. It was good when I was a broke college student :P

πάντα ῥεῖ

Yeah, the loo attending frequency is a strong indicator for that :3

That stuff just runs through your bladder, and there's almost no alcohol to extract meanwhile.

Travis J

8:46 PM

It's pretty low, 5.4%? Definitely high frequency looing

πάντα ῥεῖ

Hmm, 5,4% vol. isn't that low :-/

Just like my regular stuff. @rene?

cv-pls off-topic: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/313430/…

scohe001

9:13 PM

Hey all! Quick question: if I have an SE bug but it's only happening on one user's profile, is it still worth posting? And if so am I okay to post a link that user's profile?

Mithrandir

@scohe001 yes

scohe001

Cool, thanks @Mith!

Petter Friberg

New comments flag dialog... who is first to post it on meta?

Travis J

What would you post about?

Petter Friberg

It's not relevant. :P

Hi Travis all good?

Mithrandir

9:34 PM

@TravisJ if you flag a comment the "thanks" message will go on top of the flag dialog if you then immediately open up the post flag dialog

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@πάνταῥεῖ There is a special suspension reason "asking programming questions on meta". I flagged their post requesting that they be suspended for that reason.

πάντα ῥεῖ

Good so

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Mar 20 at 19:00, by Ano