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12:42 AM
@Shog9 I've edited this to not have the link. Can you please undelete and redact the revision containing it?
2 hours later…
3:04 AM
Huh? Interesting... it seems not only their MSE account was deleted, but also on another site I noticed...
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog two things. You're rarely going to get a question reopened by copy editing. Also Peter Mortenson has been doing this for years and it makes the network a better place
"Jobs isn't available outside of Stack Overflow? Why don't we create our Jobs!"... said QuantumComputing.SE
@JourneymanGeek I said I "appreciate what [he does]" in my IPS question. The issue is, as the question is only added to the queue by editing once per closure, the author loses their chance because Peter's edit added it, and it was dismissed from the queue because questions don't get "reopened by copy editing".
Just wait five days after closure, or do it before it gets closed, and it's not a problem.
Well, I don't polish turd, and I considered on-hold questions turd.
@SomewhatMemorableName What if they're later edited to a reopenable state?
There's a reason why edits by everyone add it, not just author edits.
3:09 AM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog then I will polish it after.
(continuing) Or, talk to me, and give me a valid reason why you're still choosing to do it fully knowing that the author's chance to have their question reopened by editing is gone. I've repeatedly pinged him in comments and in chat, but he hasn't responded to me at all.
Huh, I don't know if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me? I stated "I don't polish turd", meaning that I don't edit on-hold questions unless I know I can salvage it?
3:46 AM
@SomewhatMemorableName Sorry, I misunderstood. I do agree.
4:46 AM
@Catija Personally, as the frequent target of snark and condescension, I'd rather still have the snark then lose the actionable feedback that comes with it
But that's just me
2 hours later…
6:38 AM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog "or talk to me" - erm, If he talked to everyone who wanted to know about him editing questions, he couldn't either
and Peter edits... a lot of questions.
on a lot of sites
and has been doing it for years
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog ^ might be worth a read
I kind of... remember you have mentioned that specific blog to him back then though ._.
Did I? I forget.
I ineffectually nag at sonic a lot ;)
I don't want to nag at sonic since it'd make me suspended on the chat...
hah. I am the very picture of annoyed tact!
Or sometimes I just do tactical ignoring.
Who knows, some day I might get through to the idea that no one owes him personalised attention ._.
and that the systems we have in place are there for a reason.
Like, I'd probably make the bluntest(?) comment that I don't even know if it would make him understood his... erm, "mistake"... or instead, affect their feeling/psychology and worsen the situation.
6:49 AM
hah, yup
But I think kinda ironically - my history and past annoyance with him usually are good reminders to try to keep it under control
(plus proper application of the theory of moderation, even as a non mod ;) )
4 messages moved to Chimney
Like this conversation/statement:
Jun 25 at 21:12, by Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog
I earned people's respect back in the Ano days.
The follow up was a little amusing
Jun 25 at 21:12, by Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog
And even now, I'm one of the fastest rep earners here.
> They used dogs. They used probes. They used cardioplate crossoffs. They used teepers. They used bribery. They used stiktytes. They used intimidation. They used torment. They used torture. They used finks. They used cops. They used search&seizure. They used fallaron. They used betterment incentive. They used fingerprints. They used Bertillon. They used cunning. They used guile. They used treachery. They used Raoul Mitgong, but he didn't help. much. They used applied physics. They used techniques of criminology.
@Shog9 what is a fallaron...
6:52 AM
I missed it yesterday, but Harlan Ellison died.
and who is Raoul Mitgong?
@Shog9 he did.
@Shog9 waiting for meta post announcement on SciFi.SE...
> For a brief time, I was here; and, for a brief time, I mattered.
@SomewhatMemorableName instead of waiting, goes to write it
Uhh, back to the convo I quoted, I have to say that I didn't respect him because he's Ano, I only respected his sincere anonymous editing. But alas, the interaction went bitter since the reveal.
Congrats Shog, you have once again successfully distracted the current topic to Harlan ;p
he also wrote one of the best/oddest episodes of B5
"A View from the Gallery" is an episode from the fifth season of the science-fiction television series Babylon 5. The episode is unusual in that it is told from the viewpoint of two maintenance workers (Mack and Bo) as they witness the station being attacked. == Synopsis == Unknown forces attack the station; a pair of maintenance men go about their duties. This episode tells the story from the point of view of two members of the maintenance crew. We get to see how Captain Lochley deals with being in a pressure situation, and we get to visit many other members of the main cast. Sheridan orders the...
THe beauty of it is the protagonists were not heros, they were ordinary folks.
7:04 AM
Actually, that kind of "spin-off" episode is more interesting, like wonder if you're an ordinary person in the middle of Superheroes world, doing daily job, watching/reading news about Superheroes...
Granted it was S5 (which was essentially "We got unexpectedly renewed and finished the plot arc already - so lets backdoor plot in case we can spin off, and have a bunch of great standalone episiodes)
more sleeping foal
Q: RIP Harlan Ellison

MithrandirHarlan Ellison, author of many SFF works, passed away June 27, 2018, at the age of 84. He had written a multitude of short stories and novels, as well as TV episodes such as "The City on the Edge of Forever" from Star Trek. For a brief time, I was here; and, for a brief time, I mattered. ...

@Mithrandir looks like my vote is already there :)
7:36 AM
@SomewhatMemorableName @JourneymanGeek You do realize that I can read the transcripts, and you do also realize that I have a condition which sometimes makes me act in a non-neurotypical manner at times? I think I've mentioned before that I'm autistic.
Also, most of the time, I prefer to be told immediately when I do something wrong. I may not take "no" for an answer, but I do definitely prefer the truth over politeness.
Quick tip: a good way to stop me from doing something is to not only tell me reasons to not do it, but also invalidate the reasons why I do do it. In most disputes, at no point has anyone asked me for reasons why I did what I did. (If I supply those reasons without anyone asking, I'm blasted for "justifying".) If you only add more cons to my pros/cons lists for actions, you may find that I may still decide the pros outweigh the cons.
Whereas, if you also remove items from my list of pros, I may not come to that decision.
@JourneymanGeek The same reason why you cannot get me to change my mind on things, is the same reason why I can't get Peter Mortensen to stop depriving post authors of their chance to get their post considered for reopening: I only added cons to his list, without removing any pros.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Misleading link: Identificar Erro do parse no Adroid Studio by E. Cintra on pt.stackoverflow.com
7:52 AM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog yes, I do realize, and I do know about your condition. And now, from here is my honest feeling: the problem, for me personally, is that sometimes you're pushing your condition about being autistic again and again, and I rarely saw an effort from you to improve this. I dunno for others, but that makes me less sympathize at you.
Feb 28 at 19:51, by Ano
@Catija Well, my neurotypical "emulator" is currently in beta, and does have some bugs, but it's much more stable than the early alpha builds. Unfortunately, it suffers from a critical bug where it sometimes crashes in areas of interests (such as this site); I'm currently trying to fix it.
TBH, if you met me in real life, I'd be much different than I am here.
I should have mentioned that I also had a real-life autistic school friend that annoyed me. However, since he improved his behaviour much, he became one of my close friend at that time. So it's not the first time I interact with autistic people. And, this might be harsh, but this doesn't me I'm not being inclusive to them, but it just a fact that there are many kinds of people that I can't really get close/conveniently interact with them, and I prefer to back off.
Autism is different across individuals.
Yes, and that's probably the conclusion that I might always have a difficulty in interacting with you...
In real life situations, I can read implicit signals (e.g. body language) and change accordingly. Back in my previous incarnation here, I couldn't do that.
7:56 AM
(okay, done with my honest confession, no harm intended)
@SomewhatMemorableName Honesty does win over politeness; it usually doesn't cause harm for me. If you notice me doing something that makes our interaction degrade, please tell me what I did and what feeling it provoked, so I can improve.
After all, I'm trying to improve my own interaction, so that I can be a better advocate for inclusivity across the network.
Thanks, now I believe I can understand you better :)
Mar 3 at 4:28, by Ano
Sometimes we believe we're acting civil and compassionate, merely asking follow-up questions after getting what we think are unclear answers.
8:18 AM
8:29 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted username, blacklisted website in answer: Obtain a list of computers from SCCM on which a specific software is installed? by Eray on serverfault.com
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Its also a certain unwillingness to change
And tbh, you assume that your way is always right. If you want inclusiveness, you also need empathy.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog IME an unfortunate part of the manner in which the loudest commentators on social interaction typically express themselves is that they tend to push their observations as rules, which don't have exceptions and can't be balanced against other factors, and then just avoid noticing all the times they don't follow them themselves. It makes it hard to have a reasonable discussion with such people, because by even trying to acknowledge the nuances you mark yourself as a Bad Person.
So, while I haven't witnessed it here, I'm pretty sympathetic in the abstract to the "nobody asks me why I do the things that piss them off and if I try to explain I get slammed for 'justifying'" complaint above. I see it happen to people everywhere (not necessarily on SE).
@MarkAmery eh ;p
@JourneymanGeek Guess you didn't read the later messages.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I did. But here's the thing. People eventually run out of patience.
they're write you off at that annoying guy who constantly demands attention
8:41 AM
@JourneymanGeek This message of yours indicated to me that you may not have carefully read the next few messages. I don't simply assume I'm right - I make a decision based on the pros and cons. Most of the time, I believe the pros outweigh the cons, and in some cases one or more of the pros are a deal-maker.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I don't think that aligns with what I see.
For example - when people try to talk to you about your pinging habits, and how going through proper processes are better, you always dismiss it with $person dosen't mind.
You're always going to go the way that want.
In the case of Peter - He's (semi automatically) broadly fixing issues. Your only tradeoff is folks can't automatically get a free VTR by editing.
Fine. You can vote to reopen.
Or even flag if you can't.
@JourneymanGeek I'm not always active.
So you can go at someone for doing something that broadly helps the network
or you can literally get off your rear and do something.
@JourneymanGeek That requires a mod flag, and the guidance is specifically to not flag for mod attention.
Cause back in the day, pre mod-days I used to get stuff reopened via MSU
You can/should always be able to flag if you can't vote.
Or bring it up on per site meta
or bring it up on some chats
8:47 AM
You do realize that much of my arguments are based on ideology, not just how things work in practice, right?
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog that might explain why they're poorly recieved.
... that's why sometimes I have to throw out my ideology temporarily, because it's never ideal in real world...
My ideology is pragmatism first ;)
@JourneymanGeek You can't "recommend reopen" flag to put questions in the reopen queue. Also, when the add-to-RV-queue-by-editing feature was introduced, the guidelines were rewritten to not use mod flags.
citation needed
and I've suggested 4 different ways.
8:50 AM
I guess I'm okay with when you can't do it yourself...
and I think the broader benefits of what Peter's doing is more important than making it easier for someone whose question isn't that good to have a chance to do a minor edit and kick things back into a queue where the post may still get rejected.
@JourneymanGeek If this is about the first thing, there's a declined FR. The second, I've had a mod flag asking to reopen declined.
Maybe cause the question was crap.
@SomewhatMemorableName New users don't have the rep to chat.
You can do it then.
8:51 AM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog no, not new users, you, or anyone else that see it and can chat.
But hey, I've gone on meta for that before.
7 mins ago, by Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog
@JourneymanGeek I'm not always active.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog so, fix the ones you can
FWIW, I also find Peter's editing frustrating. He's a prolific editor using tools - which is to say, he's effectively almost an automated system - but we have limited visibility into his process and tooling and he refuses to discuss it or take any accountability. I had to escalate to the mods previously to order him to stop auto-editing all technology names to be Wikipedia links because he refused to even comment on meta.stackoverflow.com/q/340157/1709587 to argue his side.
That's a pretty valid complaint IMO
8:54 AM
Anyway, on Anime.SE, I leave "active questions" tab open while I sleep, so I know how many posts were modified when I wake up, and thus I can prepare to moderate them.
@JourneymanGeek I didn't like it when someone else made a reopen request on Meta on my question on IPS, as I could no longer spearhead the process and provide a clear argument as to why my question should be reopened. I don't wish to do the same to others.
@SomewhatMemorableName lol. I used to do that, then I took an arrow to the knee people kept pinging me in my sleep.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog shrug and folks have reviewed that question a few times.
And you win some, you lose some. I've had questions closed before, talked to a mod, saw their point of view, and dropped it.
@JourneymanGeek That was my initial feeling when the meta question was first posted, before that review even took place.
And then it comes to
"My question was closed. Why was my question closed?"
So... some time back...
I hit a HNQ lottery on SF
Got a ton of rep off a question.
...ended up being a hoax and I lost all of it.
@JourneymanGeek "...while these other questions were kept open"..."thanks for pointing out those questions, they have been closed accordingly"
9:03 AM
I didn't really fuss over it - and when a mod asked about it I went \o/
and... they moved my answer, and gave my rep back. Which was nice
@JourneymanGeek I remember that story, but IIRC it wasn't you.
but... I didn't want to make a fuss cause it was me
Your memory is faulty then.
The data wiping question?
I was specifically mentioned in the related meta post
You didn't ask that
9:04 AM
No, I answered it.
and I didn't fuss over the rep loss, even though it wasn't my fault
This was an edge case, the system normally accounts for these through the +3, 60-day provision.
You're missing the point.
Which is really that... you really can't/shouldn't whine at people every time something dosen't go your way
I once argued that a question of mine should be undeleted, even though I gained 100 rep from its deletion.
Autism or not, that colours the view people have of you, and makes it harder for you to actually get what you want.
I don't whine, I just ask why. Unfortunately, most people don't take it literally.
9:09 AM
Once again - that's a perception I have, over the entirety of my interaction with you going back to the damryfbfnetsi days
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I think of SE as a place where I don't have to invoke my aforementioned "emulator" all the time. It sucks up a lot of my energy.
@JourneymanGeek Do note that I was only 15 back in those days.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I knew a lot of very mature 15 year olds back in the day. And some very immature older people. I don't judge by age, only by how folks act.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog what about other people's energy?
It doesn't on the sites themselves, as they were designed around that. But here in chat, it crashes due to the aforementioned "critical bug".
9:54 AM
Well, that's the issue that I still can't grasp: "crashed due critical bug" -> would it be fixed?
@SomewhatMemorableName 6-8 weeks.
(I feel like nearing chat suspension...)
10:36 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in body, potentially bad keyword in body: What is Personality Development? by shubham pandey on webmasters.SE
11:11 AM
If you like the daily wtf you might also like Internet of Sh*t
11:30 AM
1 message moved to Chimney
1 hour later…
12:49 PM
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1:05 PM
There's an account on SO with 5900 rep and 895 answers :p
@Magisch Maybe they've just downvoted a lot? :)
@Tinkeringbell Average answer score of 0.34
@Magisch I was told SO is hard :)
Funny. The two times I thought of asking a question on SO, actually writing it down worked like rubber-ducking...
I got an answer before posting.
1:11 PM
happened to me more times then I care to admit
1:41 PM
@Tinkeringbell I've asked a total of three questions ever on SO
most of which should have been closed as too localized if that still existed
The only question I posted was actually my friend's question. The rest, like the impossibility of how Android app requests something from the system... got by searching Android's official bug reporting channel.
I guess I just came late to the party. Now everything has already been answered or is so obscure...
I could start a boatload of questions on magik :P
Sometimes you have to go beyond the official documentation, like their bug report lists, or even their source code (if open source)...
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3 hours later…
4:46 PM
5:21 PM
@rene If you like some German humor (the real one, not what bubbles up in the "fake-news"): twitter.com/Der_Postillon
Best is their weekly summary of letters to the editor :3
@πάνταῥεῖ That Adult on board is pretty funny :)
And that cat with their 137 commands :D
Do you have something similar in the netherlands?
@rene Something completely different: Can you give me a short briefing what had changed the recent year at SO please?
I don't wan't to break in again with dropping at clangers :P
We became welcoming, and C/C++ posts got worse, regulars grumpier. That sums it up nicely
Thanks, I'd expected that (don't ask why)
While I am planning not to leave (snarky) comments anymore, I am a bit afraid about using my dupehammer.
Where there any people banned of "abusage" regarding that so far?
5:39 PM
Not that I know
Cya at the SOCVR in a few hours ;-)
Don't get kicked at an instant please ...
(nor later for that matter)
I'll be careful about that of course :3
Well, we'll see ...
I mostly managed so here (despite some little issues), so I believe I can manage that at the SOCVR as well.
5:42 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ this will do: twitter.com/DeSpeld
@rene Yes, that's looking quite similar.
@πάνταῥεῖ if I'm around and start yelling at you, take it as a strong signal...
@rene I'm not sure if they got worse or if our expectations got higher due to better tooling
Blame it on expectations :D
@rene turbo c++ and crappy professors haven't gotten any better
5:45 PM
@rene I ever took that as a "strong signal" grumpy flwr!
@Mgetz turbo c++ ... oh my, is that still a thing?
@rene in some indian universities it seems
they don't seem to realize that code::blocks exists
@rene It ever was in india, @mgetz is right about that.
@Mgetz They don't seem to realize that GCC/Clang + Eclipse exist.
As far I've noticed that's mostly at school and in rural india though.
Their universities are better.
The people asking for homework solving usually not.
@πάνταῥεῖ I'm severely tempted to make a bundle of gcc or clang with atom and call it Turbo C++
5:52 PM
As best I can tell the trademark has expired
The bad news is that the old Borland c++ compiler stuff (now owned by Emarcadero), didn't really got essentially better over all these decades :-/
@πάνταῥεῖ I didn't think they were still selling that
They're now living from vendor lockin's (at brazed faced high rates)
They don't sell Turbo C++ anymore though.
@πάνταῥεῖ What does borland do that nobody else does?
You mean locking in customers?
5:56 PM
Well, we have to keep our customers just happy. Even if they want to change to Datev, so our software and support just allows such change smoothly. That protects your company from getting accused with bad reputation and angry reviews.
@rene No more "April desaster", I've been learning a lot from that shit.
@πάνταῥεῖ one of my chat users has been complaining about needing to use Turbo C++
@πάνταῥεῖ also... tbh, you're not very good at picking your fights ;)
(cough those tweets at trump)
@JourneymanGeek I am doing these sideways. I don't believe they'll really care about it.
Then what's the point?
To have a stance and spine.
6:09 PM
I tend to stick my nose in either to win over people, or to protect/defend something I care about.
I'm also trying to protect my lawns at least.
That's different
Following @realDonaldTrump at twitter is kinda masochistic though :P
Also, on the topic of tweets
I strongly believe what happens in vegas needs to stay in vegas
So, if you have an issue on moderation here, you might want to wait a bit and ask here ;)
I don't got that impact as people like @noamchomskyT already have, but that doesn't mean I can't tell my thoughts, and especially for some idiots who draw themselves in the public like Don does.
6:17 PM
I don't have much of an impact
but that's fine ;)
We do have impact. It's no easy to realize, but we do.
oh, I do, with a few people and a few places. But I strongly believing in picking the places where I can matter the most ;)
I didn't believe that my impact could be that large at my hometowns IT dev scene, but I have factually. I am impacting the technical college, I get requests about IT jobs and the appropriate companies. Why not extending that more: Stay on the Scene
As always, follow @Horse_ebooks
wait, no need to follow, just pick a random tweet and... umm... enjoy it?
@JourneymanGeek That doesn't meet the globalized behavior of politicians or companies well these days.
Also we should be allowed to ask for clarification:
@realDonaldTrump Errm, how do 6 month comprise an "anniversary"? Can you please explain that in simple comprehensive wording?
6:36 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ no, but it keeps things civil and in one place
That was civil enough :P
and? ;p
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer (batch report: post 1 out of 2): Will the new traffic measuring formula be available via the API as well? by user54381 on stackapps.com
I am constantly getting well appreciation so far ;P
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer (batch report: post 2 out of 2): Keep getting HTTP 406 by user54381 on stackapps.com
6:43 PM
@SmokeDetector k
@πάνταῥεῖ Trump never responds to replies, from what I can tell.
doesn't mean it doesn't have an impact
Should I respond to Eminem?
At least he asks...
Think I saw once he responded to some other leaders, maybe Putin or other person with same impact as he has, or more.
But @Sonic is right when it comes to ordinary people like us: with thousands of daily replies, he can't possibly respond to any, not to mention it will give him nothing.
7:09 PM
D. Trump doesn't have real impact since there's no substance.
He knows how to deliver a "show" for silly and easily to impress people, and that's it.
Slim Shady is a god in comparison.
i mean... when said people aren't few in number, the impact is quite real
Knows what he's talking about.
@KevinB You can eve impact as a single number, that's what I've been quite astonished of.
7:34 PM
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> Well; this is the end of my happy story :)
Happy MSO answer
7:53 PM
@Catija You can express at your profile whatever you like of course, that doesn't have any impact of how your content should be judged though.
@πάνταῥεῖ it shouldn't... that doesn't mean that it doesn't.
There are many users who intentionally hide their gender on the network out of fear of being judged.
That's a totally silly FR, c'mon!
Bake me a cake plz!
And disclosing gender makes content better and sets into context?
No one said that it makes content better.
And the feature helps how?
It doesn't. My answer doesn't support it. But that doesn't mean that visibility is bad.
7:58 PM
This is the part that i don't quite understand/have an answer to:
> It matters because people refer to us in the third person all the time in comments, and anyone who's not male gets misgendered extremely frequently.
like... i don't understand why that would offend someone, or what they'd want us to do differently. yeah yeah use gender-neutral pronouns, but it's so unnatural to the way people generally converse.
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