Tavern on the Meta

user315433

12:00 AM

@Michelle Hi again. Here is a (very) rough sketch image of what I had in mind, moving the member's link below where it is presently located and above the number of questions in a given tag. There's even room to spare in a lot of areas. — Fred -ii- 3 mins ago

user315433

Not sure why Fred is proposing this change to me, but I guess that doesn't hurt its chances of being implemented.

bmike

12:42 AM

The new top bar design - if you squint at it, it kind of looks like a nod to the iPhone X notch, natch.

user315433

0

A: What is the least "world changing" reason why the government would pay for you to keep a llama during your 43rd year of life?

An ultra-green initiative to mow lawns without using any fossil fuels. It sounds silly, but O'Hare airport actually mows its lawns with llamas (and other animals): https://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2013/08/14/ohare-airport-turns-to-barnyard-animals-to-mow-its-grass/2651645/ If you're ...

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer: How can I report spam about my Apple ID by Mike turner on apple.SE

user315433

@SmokeDetector naa-

user202362

1:01 AM

so in 8 days I will be heading back to Sydney & chasing up the rent, such a hard life as a landlady

somebody

in The Nineteenth Byte on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 2 mins ago, by Magic Octopus Urn

@ASCII-only based on the context of the conversation, I had assumed it'd scan the link for p**ography-related words, links, and learned vectors. Not sure, we implemented the same sort of crap in our SPL class at OSU

Is this a good idea or a bad one? Or does SmokeDetector already do this (spam checking for links)?

Fawad

Hi cats , unicorns and elephants

somebody

There are elephants?

Fawad

Last time I was here there was an elephant

Journeyman Geek

THERE IS NO ANDREW... ONLY ZUUUUUUUL

user315433

1:14 AM

@somebody I suggest bringing this up in Charcoal HQ, where SD development is coordinated.

user202362

I feel cheated - so I went to the valley and there are many meet ups about A.I. and yet I am becoming increasingly upset because despite all the hypes, there is no self driving car on the road, none. And I have to spend 100 hours driving for this trip. Imagine how much lovely time I could spend here chatting, if there were self driving cars ..

user202362

Deep inside, I know that we should depend on smart people to accomplish goals like this - to populate our roads with self driving cars in the next 3 years, that is, if smart people exist ...

Shog9

There are trains

Mostly they don't go anywhere you'd want to be

But if all you want to do is sit & chat & enjoy the scenery, they're perfect

user202362

I was thinking more along the line of grey hound ...

user202362

but good thinking!

Shog9

1:27 AM

they don't have seats facing the windows, but they are cheap

best part of a train is that you can sleep on the floor of the observation cars, then wake up with the sun and drag yourself downstairs for a cup of coffee and a warm cinnamon roll

user202362

wait, trains in the US are self driving?

user202362

I was almost doped by you again

Shog9

which you eat while watching the countryside roll by, drenched in the morning sun, knowing that while you enjoy your repast the distance to your destination becomes ever shorter

it's a very relaxing way to travel, if you've nothing but time

user202362

now we are talking

somebody

@Michelle oh yeah >_> I forgot that existed

user202362

1:31 AM

dear comorade, fellow hobo at heart

user202362

also finally left yellowstone and heading for seattle

user202362

arriving Seattle tomorrow night

user315433

I like trains, and over here they do go places I might want to be (like New York and Niagara Falls, for example).

user315433

If there were more than 2 a day... I might use them.

user315433

ELVIS PRESLEY//Mystery Train

►

Undo

1:35 AM

@somebody Kinda. There are some patterns we look for in links, can't remember off the top of my head if explicit stuff is one of them.

We tend to get false positives with that kind of stuff, in the "someone with a legitimate question while working on a questionable website, and posting a link to said website" category

Somewhat related: @Shog9, could you revisit meta.stackexchange.com/a/115629/215468 at some point? Charcoal keeps seeing mods interpret it as "we should decline R/A flags on gibberish", which I'm pretty sure isn't your point.

Shog9

@Undo my point was, "use whatever works"

Obvious solution is just switch to LQ flags

clever solution is probably switch to custom mod flags if a R/A flag is declined

A: Why don't we treat rubbish the same as spam?

I'm assuming that's not what "abusive" in this reason is referring to Abusive means what it says. Don't overthink this. Look... The problem folks have with these is that they see the pile of nonsense and try to extract meaning from it. "Surely if I can determine what the author's intent was...

Undo

Yeah, issue we're having is that most moderators are perfectly fine with it (or never see it). Then you get that one moderator on one or two sites and now you're special-casing

Shog9

unless this is a large volume of flags (what's it take, like 10/wk to get banned?) I wouldn't worry about it.

If the mod on a site that gets 2 flags a week wants to be super careful about it, ain't gonna hurt anything

Undo

yeah, that's probably valid. Mostly, it's just hard for us seeing inconsistency and being developers.

(also, about once every three months drama like drupal.meta.stackexchange.com/q/3672/26034 bubbles up to me)

Shog9

seems like useful education for the team in that case

lord knows Drupal gets enough spam from time to time, probably just a new batch of recruits testing the waters

Undo

1:44 AM

Definitely good education, but folks tend to use that answer as a justification to decline those flags... and then we have to try to work against it. Anyway, if you're not willing to edit it it's fine.

Shog9

but... yeah. Any time you interface with an external system, you have to treat it as unpredictable. Whether that's hardware, black-box software, or a human.

as guidance for human flaggers, I'd probably err on the side of VLQ over R/A just because it's a bit more obvious (and on larger sites, has the potential to be more effective)

For a small site, you could honestly get away with only three flags: Spam, R/A, Other

(because the first two are automatically acted upon and if everything is on the last day's worth of posts anyway there's no need for review for 6 people to just take care of business)

Undo

We usually 6-flag kill stuff pretty easily before a mod even sees it, regardless of site. Average time to deletion is well under 10 minutes even outside of spam hour.

and those TTD statistics are kinda skewed high because our data collection for it isn't great.

We kinda fixed the issue on SO with meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/345332/…, haven't had much trouble with larger non-SO sites. It's the small sites that scream occasionally

and there's just so many of them.

Shog9

that's like a one-line summary of every CM meeting

Undo

Anyway, thanks for your time. Ya'll do good work :)

16

Q: I returned from vacation to find my desk in a mess. How should I deal with this?

I took a week off as a vacation, and came back today to see my desk in a mess: my 3 screens were unplugged and stacked, and there were cigarette ashes everywhere. It turns out, last week all remote interns/employees were working in the office and my manager had to use my desk. The manager left ...

This is awesome. Where I work, if you leave for more than a day or two your cube is full of printers. The big kind that come on wheels. Those cheap caster wheels aren't easy to move on carpet, either.

Journeyman Geek

2:19 AM

@Undo hah. I used to joke that random printers keep teleporting in at job -1. Then there was the time a laptop appeared on my chair out of nowhere...

Elias

o gawd, new top bar on MSE and I already clicked the SE logo on impulse...

hichris123

Huh, both quantcast.com/earthscience.stackexchange.com#/trafficCard and 10k tools analytics shows huge traffic spike but no clue on what.

Elias

Just now: approving 3 suggested edits by Joe Friend on MSE :(

Undo

2:36 AM

@JourneymanGeek We make printers, so we tend to have a lot of them. Fun fact: Early pre-production units are reeeealllly expensive.

Journeyman Geek

@Undo I used to work in a small not quite as dodgy as a diploma mill school. :p

Quit cause.... They were dodgy

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer, username similar to website in answer: A question concerning the Cantor (ternary) function by Abstract Classes on math.SE

user315433

2:57 AM

@hichris123 I think it's mostly due to hurricane season and questions like How can a storm drop 40 inches (1 metre) of rain?. Some people may also be seeing a red moon

SmokeDetector

3:13 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Shortened URL in answer: Am I a moderator or a user? by Brio on communitybuilding.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Shortened URL in answer: How to prevent alienation from non-moderator users? by Brio on communitybuilding.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Shortened URL in answer: How to handle user whose heavy participation causes minority of bad contributions to be a drain on moderator resources? by Brio on communitybuilding.SE

user202362

4 out of 5 previous nights, did not arrive at accommodation until 9pm

SmokeDetector

3:34 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body: Holocaust question (s) by user41997 on skeptics.SE

user202362

so far covered 2/3 of the distance from south of US to north of US

Journeyman Geek

actually I've been fine so far as a regular user...

the mod tools being to the right of the hamburger bothers me tho

@Elias ._.

PMs don't get might mod powers on MSE? 0_0

Jon Ericson

4:11 AM

@JourneymanGeek Not if they don't want them.

SmokeDetector

4:35 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Shortened URL in answer: How to handle user whose heavy participation causes minority of bad contributions to be a drain on moderator resources? by room39 on communitybuilding.SE

Elias

Wondering why the poker club spam on community building now...

Journeyman Geek

4:56 AM

@JonEricson seems something potentially handy in this case but shrug you guys know what you're doing ;)

SmokeDetector

5:22 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body: concentrate on that you can seethe fat by Andem1939 on askubuntu.com

NVZ

Your thoughts on this?

4

Q: This one weird trick gets rid of all off-topic comments. Let's use it!

This is a site that gets a lot of off-topic comments, comments that really are answers, chatty comments that should be posted in chat, etc. I frequently flag these comments, but it's like I'm fighting an uphill battle. Every time I flag one comment thread, I find another. It really would be nice ...

feature-request comments

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: I sent BTC from Blockchain to Binance but the transaction hasn't gone through by rainmaker on bitcoin.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted user: Question about holocaust by user41997 on skeptics.SE

Elias

5:40 AM

first time facing that error...

now already fixed though

SmokeDetector

6:35 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer: Why do financial institutions charge so much to convert currency? by Imran520 on money.SE

SmokeDetector

6:46 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: What is mom-pkin? by Jorma Kalevi on ell.SE

rene

6:58 AM

@Elias that error is not from the infrastructure of SE, it's from Fastly, the CDN provider

Alexander O'Mara

@SmokeDetector k

SmokeDetector

@AlexanderO'Mara You are not a privileged user. Please see the privileges wiki page for information on what privileges are and what is expected of privileged users.

Alexander O'Mara

@SmokeDetector Since when?

!!/amipriviledged

SmokeDetector

@AlexanderO'Mara ╳ You are not a privileged user. Please see the privileges wiki page for information on what privileges are and what is expected of privileged users.

Alexander O'Mara

@Undo When you get a sec, I seem to have lost Smokey privileges in this room. Was this intentional?

rene

7:06 AM

:6347134 you are on a different chat server here

Alexander O'Mara

Oh, I see, I'm in the wrong room.

@rene Yep, just noticed that.

rene

Being in the Tavern can never be the wrong room ....

You might have entered with different expectations though ...

;)

Bart

8:03 AM

How many murders is one legally allowed to commit each year? I'm fully tempted to "have a word" with the Git LFS people ...

redhand

8:17 AM

@Bart if you love the nature and want to maintain an equilibrium and thereby save earth from overpopulation, you are free to kill as much as you want

Bart

"But your honor, redhand said it was fine"

redhand

@Bart redhand, I may changed my name a 1000 times before when you are saying that

Bart

8:42 AM

There will always be the chat logs

Elias

!!/report anime.stackexchange.com/a/42393/2516

@Elias dead link

good

@SmokeDetector gone

@redhand You are not a privileged user. Please see the privileges wiki page for information on what privileges are and what is expected of privileged users.

Elias

8:49 AM

sd gone - gone

SmokeDetector

9:00 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Casting DIRECTLY from iTunes to ChromeCast by Dave.Jones on superuser.com

Journeyman Geek

@rene sadly none. Unless you are the government

SmokeDetector

9:34 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Shortened URL in answer: How can monolingual members of a bilingual online community be made to feel more welcome? by joker888 on communitybuilding.SE

rene

9:46 AM

@JourneymanGeek I deny any connections with @Bart's suggestions to inflict damage on certain individuals ...

Journeyman Geek

10:16 AM

no no, you neither confirm nor deny

Like "I neither confirm nor deny clicking on the wrong question cause I was using a tiny smartphone cause the batteries went flat on my nice smartphone"

rene

I confirm I denied

Journeyman Geek

but can you deny you confirmed?

Elias

10:32 AM

I concur

rene

I pass

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

10:54 AM

damn... old habits die hard.... I keep clicking the SE icon to the left, instead the one to the right. :(

Who rotated my cheese???!!?!!

redhand

@ShaWizDowArd that's because you spend your time on MSE not on SO

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

@redhand true

but soon the NTB will engulf us all

redhand

11:09 AM

@ShaWizDowArd the NTB is not bad in SO but is really a shit on other SE sites.

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

@redhand because on SO it's major change including navigation, on other sites they just changed direction and changed text to icons.

It's not bad, but it really doesn't add anything.

redhand

but the NTB will look good in light color. They are trying to copy it to dark color

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: How to tell if a Cable is Crossover or Straight from one end by ryansmith22014 on networkengineering.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Fiber Optic Cable not working by ryansmith22014 on serverfault.com

Elias

The NTB will look better if it's already implemented on all sites.

Otherwise, I have to be confused when switching between SO/MSE and other sites.

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

@redhand top bar was dark for long time now, since the previous top bar upgrade... better keep it that way, not get back to white.

Bart

11:21 AM

Well, several pull, checkout --., clean -f cycles later, the repo is up to date again. Yay ... great way to spend my time.

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

Better than what many of us are doing!

Elias

Question: will The New Top Bar™ be also put on Chat.SE?

Bart

That makes me think I don't want to know what you guys are doing @ShaWizDowArd

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

@Bart true

@Elias nah, it doesn't even have the rep and badges

chat top bar is the same as SE.com top bar

Elias

@ShaWizDowArd SE.com? Probably not for long...

> AFAIK, stackexchange.com is on the list to be updated as well, but that part hasn't been implemented yet. - Adam Lear

by "not for long", I mean 6-8 time unit though

user315433

11:30 AM

The New Black TopBar (NBTB) falls in the uncanny valley of topbar similarity with SO New White TopBar.

redhand

The Black Top bar is ugly. You can call me as racist. But I'll still say Black Topbar is UGLY

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

@redhand racist? You're black skinned, no?

Elias

Black Top Bar is ugly. White is ugly too! Let's have Rainbow Top Bar With Unicorn!

redhand

@ShaWizDowArd no O_O NO O_O NOOOO

user315433

From a non-SO user's point of view, it is strictly a downgrade.

redhand

11:32 AM

@Elias are you supporting GAYs

Elias

However, calling a black car ugly doesn't make you racist though

maybe carist... but whateva

@redhand no, I support Nyan Cat

user315433

And that prompt in the search gets old really quick, sitting top-center on the page. "Search on Motor Vehicle Maintenance & Repair Stack Exchange"

user315433

1

Q: Is this really our new look?

All I can say is... please, no. It's like someone threw a bag of crayons at Windows 10. The old 'fade out' version was fine. This is just a distraction.

discussion

user315433

12:54 PM

!!/report boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/6149/…

user315433

!!/report cooking.stackexchange.com/a/84491/29102

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: How often should I bluff in poker? by Reha Sdd on boardgames.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Butter melt inside the toaster by user2028 on cooking.SE

Feeds

1:18 PM

How Much Do Developers Earn? Find Out with the Stack Overflow Salary Calculator

Julia Silge on September 19, 2017

Today, we launched the Stack Overflow Salary Calculator, a tool that allows developers and employers to find typical salaries based on experience level, location, specific technologies, and education.

We did this because we believe developers should be empowered with more information around job searches, careers, and salary. In fact, we know that developers want more salary information to make better choices about their careers; we have seen that ads for Stack Overflow Jobs that include salary information get 75% more clicks than ads without salary information. …

rene

1:49 PM

> I also blame bluefeet's announcement

from here ... and yes, I copied only the best part of it, on purpose ;)

That worked out nicely ...

SmokeDetector

2:05 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: How to include multiple IF statements in one cell in Google Sheets by John Currently Dead on webapps.SE

bluefeet

@rene I'm terrible at everything so this is no different

rene

Oh, come on ... you're doing great!

Elias

AlphaGo has its movie..! :O

redhand

slightly related to salary calculator. how much a CM on SE earns per month?

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: Каким образом можно управлять железом из Python? by supriya kedar on ru.stackoverflow.com

Derpy

2:15 PM

@Feeds Europe: France and Germany. @bart will be happy.

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

@redhand 6-8k

redhand

@ShaWizDowArd $'s? just for spending time here on Chat?

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

But I'm pretty sure it's not a fixed salary, it's different for every employee based on personal contract. Probably.

@redhand and answering thousands of emails/tickets sent via "contact us" form.

And nuking trolls.

And giving hand in fresh sites.

~~And shadow banning @Telkitty~~ oops that's a secret

rene

you said it ...

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

it's ~~stricken out~~

redhand

2:20 PM

it's no longer a secret

Journeyman Geek

@redhand tbh, we don't see most of the CMs on chat...

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

Well as a Shadow I have the right to reveal such secrets!

redhand

@JourneymanGeek well.. for that, blame the Time Zones

Journeyman Geek

@redhand and that there's a lot of less than obvious stuff they seem to be doing

redhand

going to complete my project. Will complete it by today or tomorrow

Derpy

2:23 PM

@ShaWizDowArd and as just a shadow you have no head to lose when the Queen of Hearts will try to behead you under the charge of "corporate secrets disclosure"

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

@redhand nope, out of 14 CM's only 4 are here. Ever.

(e.g. Robert was never here. Gabe was never here. Ana was never here, etc.)

huh. oops. Turns out she was here. So it's not "never".

redhand

also robert enter sometimes

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

@redhand lol. chat.meta.stackexchange.com/users/98786/…

One message a month ago. Three messages 3.5 years ago. He's really a big help here.

Not that we need all CM's here, just stating facts. Only 4 are active here. :)

redhand

@ShaWizDowArd lol chat.meta.stackexchange.com/users/98786/robert-cartaino

last message 22h ago. last seen 45s ago

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

@redhand private chat rooms for SE employees.

There are tons of them here, buzzing with activity.

redhand

2:37 PM

@ShaWizDowArd hmm. anyway, he's active on chat

I won the competetion

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

No

You lost

He's not active in any public chat. :D

Elias

You just won The Game...

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

of Thrones?

Elias

The Game (mind game)

The Game is a mental game where the objective is to avoid thinking about The Game itself. Thinking about The Game constitutes a loss, which must be announced each time it occurs. It is impossible to win most versions of The Game. Depending on the variation of The Game, the whole world, or all those aware of the game, are playing it all the time. Tactics have been developed to increase the number of people aware of The Game and thereby increase the number of losses. Though the origins of The Game are unknown, a game featuring ironic processing was played by Leo Tolstoy in 1840. == Gameplay == There...

redhand

@ShaWizDowArd of ~~boo...~~ shit this is not Den

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

2:38 PM

lol

GoB

canon

:/

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

Still, nothing beats GTCoMS!

Journeyman Geek

@ShaWizDowArd I've seen ana on chat. Once or twice.

If I ever get hired by SE, I'll try not to be a stranger ;p

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

16 mins ago, by Sha Wiz Dow Ard

huh. oops. Turns out she was here. So it's not "never".

redhand

1 min ago, by Sha Wiz Dow Ard

16 mins ago, by Sha Wiz Dow Ard

huh. oops. Turns out she was here. So it's not "never".

10 secs ago, by redhand

1 min ago, by Sha Wiz Dow Ard

16 mins ago, by Sha Wiz Dow Ard

huh. oops. Turns out she was here. So it's not "never".

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

2:45 PM

6 mins ago, by redhand

@ShaWizDowArd of ~~boo...~~ shit this is not Den

Derpy

@Elias <this information is above your current clearance level>

Elias

I'm just a mere D-class...

canon

3:05 PM

I lost the game. :/

user315433

Any Canadians here? An important question for you.

user315433

0

A: Can a Canadian doctor perform RFID chip implantation in a willing subject?

IS IT TRUE THAT A DOCTOR IN CANADA CAN MICROCHIP A PERSON LEGALLY? WITHOUT THERE CONSENT? IS'NT THIS AN OFFENCE.

canon

3:30 PM

The title seems to conflict with the question text.

rene

Based on the consistent yelling I assume the OP think Canadians are hearing impaired

user202362

Oo rent received, my current 2 tenants are very good with payment promptness ...

user202362

so like tomorrow, I am thinking of going over to Canada for a day ...

bjb568

My ACT scores look pretty good.

Elias

You can error

user315433

3:45 PM

Yes, but you can oracle.

user315433

@Telkitty Beware of microchip-implanting doctors.

rene

@Telkitty are you still near the west coast or more inland?

user202362

I am currently driving from yellowstone to seattle, but at this very moment sitting in the hotel waiting for my laundry to complete

user202362

in this city called Missoula

Elias

Missou...ri

user315433

3:53 PM

Missoula, Montana

Missoula is a city in the U.S. state of Montana and is the county seat of Missoula County. It is located along the Clark Fork River near its confluences with the Bitterroot and Blackfoot Rivers in western Montana and at the convergence of five mountain ranges, thus is often described as the "hub of five valleys". In 2016, the United States Census Bureau estimated the city's population at 72,364 and the population of the Missoula Metropolitan Area at 116,130. In the 1990s, Missoula overtook Great Falls as Montana’s second‑largest city, behind Billings. Missoula is home to the University of Montana...

user202362

also I kept on being given 218/219 room for the trip, so werid

Magisch

4:31 PM

The SO salary calculator is depressing

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Mostly non-Latin body: Is it a a non-singular curve in P^6? by user20107 on math.SE

user315433

6:10 PM

Side benefit of hiding the topbar: it also hides any per-campaign dancing monkeys that SO puts there now or in the future.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body: Which statistical test to compare weekly weight changes? (Gain or loss) by Anon on stats.SE

Elias

sd f

SmokeDetector

6:28 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Location recording in a warehouse, how to avoid reverb? by Jesus Morato on sound.SE

SmokeDetector

6:45 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected: How do I save my game in LittleBigPlanet 2 on PS3? by joao2008 gt minecraft and grow on gaming.SE

user315433

@SmokeDetector Luckily this is gibberish and rude/offensive at the same time, so no argument with mods...

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer: Rename multiple files in folder with different pattern file name by jonathan on superuser.com

user315433

7:57 PM

!!/report anime.stackexchange.com/a/42403

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Create documents with plain text formatting in Google Docs by Akkawaaq Jaalataa on webapps.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Who is the boy in the coffin in the last episode (of the Gemini of the Meteor)? by likun on anime.SE

user315433

sd 2gone-

user315433

> Currently on hold with Google's API team. Their hold music has to be some sort of psychological warfare. -- Nick Craver at 10:37 AM - 19 Sep 2017

user315433

> I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by API key management UIs. -- Matt Sherman at 11:15 AM - 19 Sep 2017

user315433

Poor Nick.

rene

8:06 PM

hmm, I'm rate limited ....

The Global flags userscript makes the SE nginx unhappy

user315433

It used to work okay for me, but now I'm afraid to run it (it just updated a minute ago)

user315433

> I think to be fair to people, the LaTeX stack exchange people are some of the nastiest of all the different question sites -- Ryan Gallagher at 7:19 PM - 18 Sep 2017

user315433

... is that "fair to people". TeX - LaTeX is probably the nicest SE site of all.

user315433

They finally reached "1% of votes are down" mark this year, it was less than 1% before.

user315433

Compared to 12% on Math, for example (and there are sites with more).

user315433

8:15 PM

Hm, the query excludes deleted posts, better fix that.

rene

@Michelle it didn't say how long I have to wait

Normally it was 1 or 2 minutes

user315433

And now I can't login to SEDE at all? Click Login, then "Stack Exchange", and back to homepage in the same state.

user315433

This is how the world is falling apart around us. :/

user315433

R.E.M. - It's The End Of The World

►

rene

LOL

Travis J

8:42 PM

I don't understand the salary calculator. Is no one really making more than $125k? That seems like a really low cap... I would hope Jon Skeet is making more than that.

user0042

Money is overrated.

Travis J

Health is underrated.

But I didn't see a health calculator.

Is math overrated now too? I was more curious about accuracy than about the intrinsic value of currency.

user0042

@TravisJ I just threw that in ;)

Travis J

Chain yanker :P

Perhaps it is an unfair question to pose, since SO can't possibly know everyone's actual salary.

user0042

@TravisJ So I'm fine with mine :P

Travis J

8:49 PM

It piqued my curiosity though.

Jon Ericson

@TravisJ Are you looking at the 75TH PERCENTILE bar? 25% of developers with that profile will make more than that. (I think there's going to be some more help on the page to explain it.)

The data is extrapolated from the most recent survey.

user315433

Why not a 5-point summary... min, Q1, median, Q3, max. Or would min/max be too personal to disclose? Too unreliable/noisy?

user315433

Five-number summary

The five-number summary is a set of descriptive statistics that provide information about a dataset. It consists of the five most important sample percentiles: the sample minimum (smallest observation) the lower quartile or first quartile the median (middle value) the upper quartile or third quartile the sample maximum (largest observation) In addition to the median of a single set of data there are two related statistics called the upper and lower quartiles. If data are placed in order, then the lower quartile is central to the lower half of the data and the upper quartile is central to the upper...

Travis J

I do like the 5 point graphs

user315433

A box with whiskers

Travis J

8:57 PM

mmmmmhmm

@JonEricson - The 75th bar for the calculator I saw was at 108k, 50th was at 90k, and so even if 25% make more than the 75th percentile, that still seems to play into the 125k supported as an upper limit. The blog states that 125k seems to be the highest median, which could also afford some room on the upside as far as outliers... but still, it seemed low.

Magisch

@JonEricson I wonder how you deal with metropolitan vs rural

Jon Ericson

@Michelle How would you model that?

Travis J

Think of a stock graph

Magisch

Either I'm severely underpaid as ~22% under the 25th percentile or your survey had a metropolitan bias

Jon Ericson

@Magisch I'm not the one to ask. Julia did the analysis.

Magisch

9:00 PM

hmm

Travis J

@Magisch 22% below the 25th places you at about median US salary from 2016

Oh, sorry, didn't realize you were in Germany

Magisch

back of the envelope math with my salary and assuming 4 weeks a 40 hours a month puts me at ~11 eur an hr which is 2,50 eur above minimum wage

for the same job in the nearest big city I'd be making ~40% more, but paying ~55% more in taxes and paying so much more in rent / food that it wouldn't be worth it

user315433

One can pretend having complete information by generating N samples from the model distribution, then take 5 numbers from that. Sure, min and max will likely be noise.

Magisch

Seems a little gimmicky to have a salary calculator that averages over a whole country when living standards vs actual wage disparity can go to 50+% easily in either direction depending on where you live

user315433

N ~ size of the survey

Magisch

9:03 PM

2500 a month in berlin puts you near poverty while 2500 a month in my backwater is actually pretty comfortable for a single person

I imagine it's worse in the US

Jon Ericson

@TravisJ Look at a NY Data Scientist with a PhD and 20+ years of experience. I think that's the highest reported salary. It's also a huge range of potential salaries.

That's because it's a statistical model and there probably aren't that many data points to get a good estimate.

Magisch

compare someone making 5k a month in NY or SF to someone making that in rural montana or someplace else remote

user315433

@TravisJ They mention "a long tail of very high salaries."

user315433

Was there Data Science 20 years ago?

Travis J

Sure, those were the people hyping the .com bubble ;)

Jon Ericson

9:05 PM

Um... Statistics has been around for centuries.

Magisch

I wonder what a data scientist was doing with a relevant phd 20 years ago

and was that even called a data scientist

or just some kind of analyst

y'all could ask for zip code in the next survey

and then make per-county averages for those where you have enough datapoints

Travis J

I mean, I guess it is a good model if you are assuming that after working 20 years with a PhD the person is still writing code doing dev work. It seems to not branch into things like project management, senior positions, junior positions, etc. that would probably allow a more full picture, especially with consideration to the longer tail or the range of salaries not covered.

Magisch

I also wonder how SO's own salary determination model for its employees compares to that

user0042

@Michelle Well, it was more like poking with little sticks and turning spaghetti code from one side to the other :-P

Magisch

Is so paying more then average? I'd assume so

user315433

9:09 PM

Is reading mean tweets really going to be a recurring feature of the podcast? I got one just now from a "PhD student"... "There's plenty of cesspools on the internet, but nothing quite like the smug unhelpfulness of Stack Exchange"

user315433

If it is, they surely one can pick better insults than those that were read in the latest podcast.

Magisch

Isn't it endearing that everyone's political statements are now public for any employer to see on twitter if they use it that way. I just noticed in the guy you linked

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

9:38 PM

@JNat heavy cross site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/7022698/rk-myo-win?tab=accounts (spam on MSE likely spammed others by now.)

user315433

Looked more like a clueless user to me. What's being spammed?

user315433

www.example.com?

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

@Michelle no, the one I reported above

That's no clueless user.

It's a spammer who try to post "legit" answers to dodge ban.

(and their "legit" is of course total crap, so nothing lost when they're nuked.)

user315433

Unrelated: is "gfy" a rude/bannable reply?

user315433

Thinking of disq.us/p/1m9ys2x

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

9:43 PM

@Michelle yup

user315433

Much of that podcast was about how quickly outright abuse disappears from sites. Alanis-caliber ironic.

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

flagged

user315433

0

A: How to get rid of the men who ask for money in Milan?

In New Orleans, Louisiana, U.S.A., a popular bit is to approach a tourist, then say "I bet you five dollars I can tell you where you got your shoes" then, if the tourist bites, "you got them on your feet!"

user315433

Memo to self: stay out of New Orleans. (Actually, visited once but wouldn't go again.)

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

hehe

Travis J

9:58 PM

I had a blast in New Orleans when I went

Would highly recommend :)

Undo

10:21 PM

@Magisch Definitely, huge difference. SF is just stupid expensive.

Where I live is less expensive, but I'm not really paying bills so I couldn't tell you

(perks of being high school intern: minimal expenses)

user315433

10:32 PM

It's cool that stackoverflow.blog has a search box now, but there's no obvious way to filter out Alyssa's spamoblog. Example: stackoverflow.blog/?s=accepted

user202362

So ... are there more bears in the Canadian Rockies than the US rockies?

Travis J

I guess it depends on which has more land mass?

Vancouver Island in Canada has one of the most populous Black Bear populations in the world, although I am not sure if that is part of the Rockies as it is kind of too far west.

user202362

Maybe I should go there tomorrow ...

Travis J

Vancouver Island?

user202362

Yeah

Travis J

10:42 PM

If you like nature and find a good guide, that could be something you are interested in. (I say, having absolutely no clue what your interests are)

According to Wikipedia the Canadian Rockies are 900 miles long, and the US Rockies are 2100 miles, with roughly the same width, so I would assume there are more bears in the US. It could be close though, given population density.

user0042

@Telkitty Hey, who's taking care about your wombats while you're traveling around the world??

user202362

I only had 2 pet chicken & they passed away before I came.

user202362

Died of old age ...

user202362

Buried under an apple tree ...

user202362

@TravisJ So can I camp on the Vancouver island? If so will I be in danger to stay in a tent?

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