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12:00 AM
You took 8 years until you got married?? Man....
It's fine only if you're young. ;)
I got married when I was 30, kind of late-ish too.
No more Denver office (and I suppose, no more data center there).
A former employee quoted ~20% on Twitter. It's only 15% in Engineering, so it would seem Sales/Marketing lost more (I didn't trawl through those lists).
@ShadowWizard My husband took some... convincing.
@Desire kinda seems plausible if they're pivoting back to Q&A as their main thing
12:05 AM
@ShadowWizard I was 32. eek. :D
@Desire data centre dosen't necessarily need someone there, and even if they shuttered that, it would take a while
12:37 AM
Sometimes I think I deserve to be single forever. So the last guy I dated want to become more serious in our relationship and I said no, then the other guy asked me out and I said no. So at this wedding a guy came and sit next to me and said 'you look lonely', I said 'I am alone but I am not lonely'.
how to be remembered as old granny that no one wants ...
@Desire where did you get that from? More details than I've seen anywhere so far.
Payroll down from 318 to 257, about 20% indeed.
> Stack Overflow customers and loyal users will see no interruption in service
If you see any interruption, blame the lack of your loyalty.
1:25 AM
@Desire All cuts? Those are some longtime employees... Pops, Jin, Oded.
Yes. You must have missed a day's worth of conversation here.
@Desire abooot 9 hours?
@Desire I'm around somewhat, just skimming mostly. But yeah, I definitely missed that.
Yikes. Good luck with the job hunts @JeremyBanks @Oded.
Guess I can't exactly be shocked that cuts happened. But SE lost some good people...
and then there are always re-hirings once things improve ...
1:38 AM
One can hope!
On the plus side: none of the moderators were laid off today.
moderators don't get paid, can we be more obvious ...
I heard about $100/year donated per moderator, that adds up too.
@Desire in theory they could just adjust that
ya, its about that much
1:50 AM
Four teams that had no cuts: Executive, Enterprise, People, and Sales-Ads.
@Desire two directors got cut, that's Executive?
They weren't listed at that level, though. I'm following the team designation of /company/team
Community Team has 3 people with "Director" in job title, but they aren't listed under Executive either.
director of vs "foo director"
Among the marketing cuts are the Executive Producer of SO Podcast, and the author of most of the "code for a living" blog articles.
1:57 AM
Enterprise is their next coming thing. People... is relatively small? Sales ads, presumably actually makes em money.
Expect less blog activity in the near future, which frankly feels like a relief right now. Was overdone.
Relief is... kinda not the best word
(I kinda feel the tinest bit guilty for complaining about those all the time)
2:18 AM
@Desire increasing revenues & reduce costs ... you know people are going to speculate on what this means right?
2:39 AM
500+ unread messages and... it's a sad conversation :(
@JeremyBanks @Oded wish you all the best for your future!
Some executives were cut. This was pretty broad.
3:07 AM
@JeremyBanks from the part of the company that felt like it was getting the most visibility too.
I guess there's no meta post about this occurence, for its own good
As a person who lacks interpersonal skills, I should just shut up in this circumstance ...
@Success yeaaah. Probably for the better
sometimes I have this feeling, the more I say, the great chance someone is going to get me with some blunt/sharp weapon ...
though sooner or later, it might show up (e.g. "What happened to Jeremy Bank and Oded's diamonds!?!?!")
@Telkitty nah... the opponent is too thin-skinned...
(read: low armor -> low defense)
3:16 AM
are you sure there is only 1 opponent - the internet is vast, there could be a shadow at every corner ...
@Telkitty eh, this is SE
at worst everyone ignores you
We hardly ever get stalkers
@SmokeDetector f
3:53 AM
There's "Brainf*ck" PCG HNQ question right now (the actual title is uncensored).
wondering employees who got blocked when accessing SO due to "expletive" company IT's filter
2 hours later…
5:38 AM
Good Morning guys
1 hour later…
7:08 AM
15 messages moved to Chimney
7:20 AM
@Telkitty It's never too late to make a change, you know
@Catija You need to run in the first IPS election then, no?
@Magisch in theory, but that seems logical, yes ;p
voted on both
Turns out I still know my way around a linux box \o/
I need to run a server so I can not completely forget how to use a linux box
@Telkitty heh. I've had this a while. Just wasn't in the right state of mind to actually do it.
reinstalled a few things (off my notes), currently rsyncing over the contents of the old server to the new server as backup. though I might snarf it down to my home system instead...
I also learn new things every now and then because sometimes things break down and I need to fix them - everytime I chat to helpdesk, I record steps taken so I don't need their help again the next time same thing happens ...
8:00 AM
@Telkitty Why don't you work for my company
You could teach the older chemists and engineers a thing or two
frustrated about having to fix the damn screen for the 5th time for the same person
10:04 AM
2> https://chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/152330/machine-learning
10:32 AM
@InsaneCat second one also got frozen, apparently
@InsaneCat might be awesome to link to the transcripts rather than the rooms
10:57 AM
11:31 AM
cue a chat room drama on MSO again
It is awesome how everybody takes me serious ...
and back to work
I bit, let's see how they'll react
ugh, mosquito attack...
"squirrels are just rats with fancy tails" - my cousin
also you are too sensitive
ergh.... image reverse-searching @Desire 6'white male's profile picture is not encouraged...
anyway, wth with the display name -_-
tell mama why you are so sensitive to certain descriptions, little @Success, don't be shy
12:05 PM
tree spider
@Telkitty not really sensitive, just... confused @_@
don't worry, I am not your real mom
12:22 PM
@Telkitty as far as you know.
so what, but you gave a love like real mom ^
if it means Black Widow...
internet black widow, rofl, good one, may you live in the cyber world forever
ha ha ha ha
12:43 PM
All, we need to ask that folks not post lists of employees that appear to have lost their jobs in here. What’s happened isn’t a secret, and we’re willing to talk about the situuation, but a list of people who (presumably) lost their jobs being posted in public isn’t fair to the affected employees. I’m 100% clear that no one here meant any harm - the goal was just clarity, but we need to take the links down.
suddenly this room feel eerie...
Meh, it's the Tavern. It has always been eerie.
@Jaydles I may or may not have linked the github md5 of offense to another chatroom. Should I provide a link to the message for you to remove?
... why are people even making those lists? If you don't have jobs to offer, there's no point.
Either For Science™, or Curiosity Kills the Cat™
12:54 PM
this place is never eerie, just sometimes it doesn't go your way
@Magisch on SO chat?
@bluefeet se chat
charcoal hq to be precise
@Jaydles as a RO... ehh. I kinda think it wouldn't be out of line to remove it?
@Magisch would you mind just editing it yourself? I’d appreciate it.
@Magisch If you don't mind, I'll find it and delete it
12:56 PM
@Jaydles The message is older, I don't have mod privileges
Nuke at your discretion
appreciate that
@Magisch practically no one does
People without a blue name can't actually edit posts older then 5 mins I don't think
@Telkitty that's eerie! Everything should go my way!
(Ironically, I don't remember what RO permissions are, outside the ability to kick and move)
@Magisch nope
12:58 PM
Furthering @Bart’s point, if anyone’s company is hiring, we’d be ecstatic to hear and to pass the info on to the impacted folks from the right department.
@Bart you have not drunk enough alcohol apparently ...
I'm almost 100% certain nobody of the caliber of SO's staff want to work for my company
@Telkitty I don't drink ... so that may explain a lot
@Bart boredom I presume. And mild voyeurism.
@Bart me neither o/
12:59 PM
@Jaydles I don't know how many are on the US west coast, but Oculus seems to be hiring quite a lot atm.
In the same interest of privacy
@Magisch it's mentioned on this news article, not really a private info
@Magisch probably might be worth waiting a few days before asking. Having been in the whole 'process' before...
@Magisch that one is fine. It's specifically identifying people that we're concerned with
@bluefeet they mention one of the (ex) CMs, and one fairly unique role a few lines up.
1:05 PM
We had a discussion about this since it pertains to charcoal in a way that is in the middle of that
@JourneymanGeek I think that one is fine, it's not his real name.
(also, having been through one of these exercises, its... probably going to be a bummer the next few days. Unlike contracts ending or quitting) Might be worth waiting a few days before seeing who the new smokey contact is.
@bluefeet Ah, right.
Yesterday and today's not been a good day. I should drink and sleep.
@JourneymanGeek I'll trust Undo and Art's discretion there
Part of why I don't go around on my own asking about it :p
1:20 PM
lol @TejasSolanki
1:44 PM
thanks @Magisch @JourneymanGeek and others for helping there.
@6'whitemale would you be willing to consider taking that list off Github? It's obviously your decision, but we want to do everything we can to respect folks' privacy, and in this case, everything is me asking you for help. I appreciate the consideration.
@Bart thanks - will pass that on to the person coordinating!
2:09 PM
NO DRAMA ZONE -> If I've made you sad, you'd better not tell me, because I am TERRIFIED of that situation and have NO IDEA how to handle it.
Ok, that's mildly creepy XKCD ;p
Perhaps too accurate?
@JohnDvorak just contextually so.
I mean, in the sense that some people are just bad at talking to others and have no foul intentions after all
that too!
2:37 PM
10 messages moved to Chimney
3:13 PM
@Magisch I don't think I'll have to worry about that soon... we're only at ~5 qpd, so work is needed before we hit 10. Plus, I've got A&C as my first mod site, unproblematic child. :D
@Catija Hah :D
If you end up running in an election there, i'll vote for you
@Catija I'm suprised - I figured it was active. I guess lots of answers?
@Catija hah. I actually didn't stand on SR.SE cause I realised I was processing like... no flags
and quite a lot on SU
lots of HNQ fuel and thus comments and answers though
@JourneymanGeek You are a glutton for flags after all :p
@Magisch Its nice to feel useful ;p
Also, that's roughly when job -2 closed so... I figured I'd focus on SU
3:17 PM
@Magisch Thanks :D
Odd how that's coming up a lot today ._.
@JourneymanGeek We actually hit 10 QPD briefly a few weeks after hitting public beta but it's slowed down since. I'm actually glad. It's giving us as a site the chance to do the work of building a good community and setting policy for when we do have 10+ QPD.
@Catija that said, I think QPD's kinda a surrogate for overall activity
and your site seems somewhat active?
@Success We're apparently deleting as many comments over a 30 day period as the Workplace mods... so... yeah, comments are a problem And our answer average is insane.
834 questions
4,266 answers
@Catija I wonder if Jon's new working would help
3:19 PM
@JourneymanGeek ? Working?
You mean Robert's new wording?
Sorry, spellcheck missed that
Clearly My brain needs a kick
Q: Fixing comments in 5 minutes. Intrigued? Let's discuss

Robert CartainoI made a quick change to Area 51 recently, and it had a profound effect on how people used that site, so let's discuss. Background: The basic building blocks of every SE site are the QUESTION and the ANSWER. They are clearly portrayed as such, so if anyone puts "something else" in that space, ...

ya that
3:21 PM
^ That has already been requested and is in consideration. We're hoping the devs will decide to do it for us.
A: This one weird trick gets rid of all off-topic comments. Let's use it!

Robert CartainoA quick update on this request: Yes, the Community Team has submitted a request to have this feature change implemented using Interpersonal SE to test it. Acceptance by the dev team is still pending, but with the pent up demand and backlog of feature-requests, it is still unclear how this will...

You're probably an ideal test case for... a lot of things ;p
Regardless, by other metrics, the site's really not ready to graduate at this point.
lol. I only really pop into IPS when there's drama ._.
3:25 PM
Bah. If that were true, you'd be there a lot more ;)
At the moment, besides SU (natch) I think meta and pets are my "bookmarked" sites
I only go into IPS when people mention it ;p
@JourneymanGeek Regarding that, my current communities are: SO, Android, Anime&Manga (for participating)... and MSO, MSE, Arcade (for entertainment reading material during lunch)
@Success Used to be more active on SF, and I'm on a bunch of chats
And on that bombshell, gnight.
night :)
1 hour later…
4:53 PM
@alephzero flag: not a comment. This was posted as a comment, but it does attempt to answer the question. It should possibly be an edit, an answer, another answer, or kept as it is.leftaroundabout 3 hours ago
heh :)
@ShadowWizard Still gotta work my way towards my 100K swag box.
although I did manage to get a box of Stack Overflow lip balm on my way out, and that stuff is surprisingly great.
I'm glad you're not totally put off by this mess.
5:11 PM
It is what it is. I am somewhat disappointed/frustrated/upset/shocked, but I understand, and the company has handled it fairly well, considering. I just hope good use is made of the time this bought.
Me too.
5:41 PM
I wonder if this is because VC money is running dry or just normal operations
Is SE still in startup mode?
That made me wondered too when reading the article: startup. But perhaps my definition of startup company (based on time since founded) is different than what it should be.
let's check the source of truth:
@Shog9 Now your backlog will build even faster
With 1 cm less
also fewer mktg, fewer dev... So yes. Time to take back some legos
5:48 PM
Suggested Edits Review Queue on MSE is red! But I don't see any review...
all tag wikis
@Shog9 I wonder, does fewer devs and mktg directly translate into more work for you?
Are the roles at stack this fluid?
"Time this bought" sounds ... scary.
Time this bought sounds suspiciously like they need to raise revenue a lot to stay open in the future
@Magisch no, not directly.
But indirectly... Well, obvious example: same crap to delete on MSE, one fewer ultra-active deletionist.
5:52 PM
Shog will now be in charge of SO advertising.
good lord no
Full Screen TV Ad "Recommended by leading tilted floating heads "
Speaking of TV.... SO TV...
What, like Chive TV?
Q: An experiment: Stack Overflow TV

Matt ShermanStack Overflow is beginning an experiment called Stack Overflow TV, or SOTV for short. It will be a series of fast, smart videos for experienced programmers who want to learn a new thing. The videos will serve as a complement to Stack’s Q&A, and are intended for that community. Of course, they w...

donno about the latest status though
5:57 PM
Actually... you could have a lot of fun with that... Wouldn't even have to be SO related.
2 messages moved to Chimney
It's kind of funny when things didn't work on SO (SO Docs, SOTV!?), might work on other sites...
Perhaps it's true that SO might not be the best place to experiment things...
And they're doing more experimentation on other parts of the network.
For example, Literature being the first site to get the longer tag length.
Not quite the same scale of things but... it's actually happening.
True though, also, comment on Area 51
Yes. Comment -> suggest improvement on A51 but moving to network testing on IPS after rather than full network implementation.
6:03 PM
@Success Docs had structural problems that would prevent it working anywhere. It was just too hard to browse or even find the content. The work would have been the same to make it work on another site as on SO.
That said, it would have been a different product if we'd started designing for another site. Maybe it would have worked out if we'd started with, say, English.
And major tech companies have these sorts of false starts all the time... Part of what they're doing is taking some risk to see if they can make something that changes how we do... stuff. Look at all of the stuff Google has tried at and failed.
@JonEricson What would it have even been on ELU/ELL? A dictionary of linguistic terminology?
@Catija with the fine distinction that google has nearly unlimited funding to them owning what is like half the internet
I think those already exist. They're called dictionaries. ;)
I think the thing that makes this harder is the fact that SE has always been super transparent about stuff, so everyone's got a theory, and we're all very used to being super involved, I guess, for lack of a better word, when there are changes
@Magisch No arguments from me on that front. I don't really consider SO, Inc. a "major tech company" :P
6:08 PM
The entire SE community is used to being deeply involved and informed about nearly everything happening at the company
@Magisch Exactly! So something like this happens, and it's hard not to feel...idk, scared or whatever, like someone yanked the carpet out from under you
@Catija Yep. I was thinking of a better Urban Dictionary without all the sexual innuendo. Or something better than Wiktionary. (But all of this is entirely theoretical at this point.)
@Ash the problem with that here is... These are people, who gotta get on with their lives, and may not appreciate (in some cases expressly do not want) being tossed into the spotlight for the hell of it.
@JonEricson Could [have] be[en] interesting. But SE has come back to things they thought were dead end in the past... like Enterprise... They shuttered it and now they've not only brought it back but are adding Channels on and (as of yesterday) have shown that it's going to be their focus for future revenue streams.
@Shog9 I think it's just the voyeuristic nature of the internet
6:13 PM
@Shog9 Oh, I'm not saying we should get all of that knowledge, especially in this case
Of course lots of people would like a detailed post explaining why and whom was let go, but that would be pretty terrible if SO would actually publish that
In this case we extra shouldn't.
@Magisch no, that's something else. Obviously this stuff is impossible to keep secret from someone determined to find it, but that's different from the company ( / its representatives) publicly airing it under the guise of transparency.
@Shog9 See what I wrote directly underneath
And I'm not really speaking about the list of actual humans whose lives got...disrupted, for lack of a better term, but more the general unexpectedness of this whole event as a happening
6:14 PM
I can appreciate that y'all don't want this aired on SO/SE or chat.SO/SE especially when you can help it
@Catija Yes. I think Docs will come back in some form or another. But yesterday probably delayed that years.
It's nice that you're making such an effort to protect the former employees. Many employers wouldn't
Basically, a lot of people saw SE as bulletproof magic juice, and now maybe it's not, and that's scary
I am somewhat guilty of that...
@Shog9 I'd suspect that the lack of any official information played a large part here. Even after hearing the initial news I was very surprised when I later saw the actual count, which was much larger than I expected. The list of actual people is none of our business, but the general scale of the layoffs does make a difference to the community
6:16 PM
@Ash Heh. Clearly we haven't been nearly transparent enough.
Not only protect but help them find what's next. And there's likely someone here working in just about every corner of the industry who can help people find great positions.
@JonEricson I think it's more that SE represents what most developers want from a company
If I see a tech company, I want it to be like SE. And almost none of them are, not even remotely
@JonEricson As a privately held company, there's obviously only so much that corporate is going to share. There's a huge difference between sharing projects that are being worked on and sharing your balance sheets.
So the hope (implicitely) is that SE does really really well and can serve as a model
Seeing it falter if only a little does instill a fear that things might not turn out that way
And that all the progress towards companies not treating people like cattle will be undone and in future it'll be held as an example that transparency and decency doesn't work in this society
for what it's worth these are my personal fears that were sparked by this. Not sure if other people share these, but this is why I'm concerned
Ah yes. I do think we've done well by the employees we let go. It's too bad the details can't be shared. (I don't even know most of the details.) Layoffs are another part of a company lifecycle, unfortunately.
6:19 PM
@MadScientist there's... A nasty tendency for folks to make bad assumptions in situations like this (not helped when some companies make excuses about layoffs as being "yearly review" or stack-rank based - "the money is just a bonus, we're really getting rid of dead wood"). We're not gonna do that; it's not honest, and no one who has actually interacted with the folks involved would believe it.
I think at the end of the day, all of us want to make sure this thing we've all collectively helped build/nurture/what have you gets to still be an awesome part of the internet for as long as possible.
These were really good people, brilliant to work with, and filling their shoes is gonna be a struggle - so our first goal is to help them hit the ground running - if/when public communication facilitates that, great, but otherwise it's at best a distraction at this point.
Our next goal: prioritizing the work to be done so that we who remain don't drop anything critical.
And... That does involve public communication, but not navel-gazing.
@Shog9 I guess it's also because most people aren't used to a company showing even a hint of weakness
usually corporate mouthpieces spin layoffs as a "growth" opportunity or "pruning dead weight" or somesuch bs
So there is a fear that the locusts will smell a weakness and go for the kill
@Jeremy I still don't get why you're now using a zombie chat account?
@Magisch yeah. Which is massively unfair to the folks affected, both those leaving and those who remain.
6:22 PM
(but happy to see you in a good mood! ;))
@Shog9 aye. it is what it is
Everyone of us here in chat and on the various sites is invested in SE succeeding
We are?
Even though we might not be monetarily, we all spend our time and our effort (that is worth actual money since most of us are also professionals) improving this
So of course we'll all get concerned if things don't go right
@Magisch Well... not literally. ;)
@Catija invested means has an interest in, no?
Doesn't have to be flat out money
6:24 PM
Even "has an interest in" has a monetary connotation. But, yes. That's why there was a ;).
I could care less if 2000$ disappeared from my bank account tomorrow, but if SO went down that would really sting
there is a lot of passionate effort in there, and that is not measured up with just some money
@Magisch We gotta make money; at one point there was a crossroads between running SO (only) on a skeleton crew and making a modest profit or expanding; that choice was made a long, long time ago. Specifics aside, we're not doing too badly - but we bet on doing a little better and that bet didn't pay off.
So, slightly different direction, going back to our core competencies while maintaining what actually worked without continuing to pour money into an increasingly unlikely bet (changing an entire industry).
Concrete details on that are already public to some extent and will follow in much more detail in the near future. But... First things first.
@Shog9 Which is something that I think pretty much everyone is happy to hear. I don't spend a lot of time on SO but I still manage to hear a lot of commentary about SE having their priorities mixed up.
The single best part of this org to me has always been how closely it has worked with, drawn from, and given to the folks who make up the communities that we purport to serve.
@Shog9 I'd wager this is the reason why most of us are still here
6:27 PM
And right now... A good number of them could use a bit of assistance, so we're gonna focus our efforts there.
And why there is like an entire team of software professionals that derives pleasure from doing housekeeping for free for this site
@Magisch "software professionals"? Are you talking about stackapps people and charcoal?
I was more thinking about everyone on SO in the review queues
But charcoal is ... more complicated
How appropriately timed.
6:30 PM
Well, Wikipedia on the background scene also does many housekeeping (even automated, like anti-vandlism bot, etc)
wikipedia is also an organized and internationally recognized charity
not a for profit company
SE could be a non-profit :P
I think the angel investors would have something against that
6:58 PM
@ShadowWizard Because it's an edge case and I like using edge cases.
7:14 PM
I didn't have a chance to visit Meta SE/SO for a couple of days and my search didn't yield anything. Is there any post about the recent layoffs and company's situation?
no, but there are news article outside SE.
I saw the one on TechCrunch but it sounds like a mystery. Let me read the chat then. Thank you.
@ayhan Pretty much starts with the pinned 4 star message by Tim Post.
Is this why my support request wasn't answered the very minute I sent it?
Um... Sure. If that works for you.
7:26 PM
Excellent. That's that mystery solved.
I've had an open ticket for over two months
curses about impatient whippersnappers
old people noises
If it was assigned to me, I'm sorry. :P
The form doesn't really give any indication that that might happen. At some point I was going to wonder if mine fell down a hole because I had a + in my email address.
@Jeremy Nah, that's all shog's fault
That happens sometimes, and it just makes me want to put more of them in there and complain harder.
7:29 PM
Although I guess yesterday's events mean I'll have to wait into 2018 with that
/me signs up for the channels beta.
I was going to say you'd have to wait for Thanksgiving and Christmas to pass anyway, but on second thought I wonder if that doesn't just make the office quieter and cause the remaining people to gain a whole lot of productivity where they sweep through many outstanding issues.
Deploy cryptocurrency clientscript across the SE network. Hire everyone back.
/me realises he's just made a quiet-office joke after layoffs, and regrets that.
7:45 PM
@Jeremy I don't know how on Earth that's going to work without the benefit of broader community involvement/moderation. Fingers crossed.
@canon What do you mean by "community moderation"? We have local wikis/confluences at work and no one spams them or fills them with crap. Why would a Stack Channel be any different than that?
I've used an internal Q&A system at another company before, and usually teams ended up answering and organizing/moderating questions about their areas of expertise.
(The best internal users were also Stack Overflow users, of course.)
Plus, if questions are "polls" or "subjective"... does it really matter? I'm not sure I see that sort of thing as a problem. It's a tool for a company to use internally. How neat they keep it is up to them but I'm guessing that they're not going to give people who haven't signed an NDA access to internal documentation.
I've seen plenty of intranet knowledge bases which are absolute crap. I'm glad you've had a more positive experience... but I still don't see how it's going to be anymore useful than current tools in that space when it doesn't come with community backing. Like I said, it will be interesting to see how it goes.
If it's not useful to a company, presumably they will stop paying for it, download what data they have and move on... or just keep paying for it in case someone chooses to use it from time to time... just like any other tool. If you set up a media wiki - no one helps you maintain it... it's up to the people using it to either use it and maintain it or not... I don't see the difference here.
7:56 PM
You're sort of assuming that everyone will stop using it simultaneously with no new companies starting... that's not likely what would happen.
Surely it's selling a decent user interface developed against users from all over the internet? A lot of internal tools I have seen in the past are horribly primitive because they don't have a world-facing version to get world-facing-scale feedback to make it right.
@canon an awful lot of 'em are designed and built for "enterprise" customers - with all that entails. Checklist-based design, heavy-handed permission systems (gotta love a wiki that only 3 people in the company can edit...), shitty performance and/or/due-to unrealistic hardware requirements, UI built for demos rather than users...
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