Tavern on the Meta

rene

8:00 PM

@balpha why do they undervalue themselves? Is that a cultural thing?

Magisch

the government pays next to nothing for their devs

balpha

@rene I think so, yeah.

Magisch

and people accept the government as sort of upper range for salaries usually

So people think nothing of taking a job that pays like 1.7k a month before taxes as dev with 3+ years of experience and a bachlors in CS

rene

@balpha Hmm , wouldn't have thought that for one the biggest economies in Europe (and good neighbor)

Magisch

Its also the attitude of "its just writing code"

Our bosses for instance think that anybody with half a brain could replace us in a couple weeks

So we aren't paid anymore then the people in the warehouse

rene

8:02 PM

Anybody can be replaced ... but don't expect the same workload to be processed ...

let alone quality

Magisch

The idea of a normal developer maing over 80k a year here is completly preposterous unless you have like a decade of experience and some very niche qualifications

I'm sure SE has some insights on the ranges of salary offered in germany, and with the fact in mind that the companies advertising on SE being on the top of the salary ranges

Oded

A good number of years ago I interviewed for a job in Berlin. They made me an offer, but I didn't feel I could make a living off that - not with having to relocate with wife and two kids.

rene

@Magisch You might consider working for a Dutch company. At least they pay better based on what you tell me.

Magisch

I'm not very confident that I'm actually that good

or that employable

rene

They often near-shore so we're used to use English as main language.

Magisch

8:08 PM

My school grades are decent but there are many people better at writing code then I am

participating here has made me even more painfully aware of that

rene

@Magisch In the good times, and I believe they are about to return, they hired anything, literally. I have no doubt you'll do fine in a projectteam with a good mix of experience.

TIPS

imgur.com/gallery/OCbnY

rene

@Magisch ... it is not only about writing code ... other skills also required ....

Magisch

@rene Yeah like design and writing doc and debugging and stuff

There are people who first of all aren't clinically depressed and second of all much better then I will probably ever be and they're making next to nothing, so I don't see a decent future for me in software dev

rene

maybe even talk to customers?

Magisch

8:11 PM

Nowadays as a simple developer you have to compete with salaries in india when working in germany

One thing thats very much working against me is that I have seriously crippling social anxiety. Interacting professional with people online is easy, when you don't have to constantly monitor yourself for social cues...

facing clients? no way

rene

You should do that more often ...

It really helps. And I'm also still learning that social aspect of my work

TIPS

@Magisch Close vote clients to feel better

rene

that ^

I often flag them also as offensive

Magisch

I'm super non confrontational irl

TIPS

@rene And suspend them

@Magisch Oh, then do an anonymous serial downvote.

Magisch

8:18 PM

Once on a school trip the teacher forgot to give me my room keys for the hostel we were staying at and went to bed so I sat in the lobby all night waiting for him to wake up again

rene

And? Did you like it?

Magisch

I enjoy participating in social things online because it removes the need for me to be on edge all the time and I get time to compose and monitor my responses

No, obviously not. I was cold and super tired throughout.

rene

There is a difference between being confrontational and making sure you're comfortable. If achieving the latter requires the former, so be it.

I'm off, need sleep ...

Magisch

good night rene

user315433

Who needs sleep?

Magisch

8:28 PM

I do, actually. I'll be off aswell or I'll be unbearable tomorrow.

Night people o/