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7:00 PM
Top 30 candidates in rep make it to primary
@SterlingArcher your two hour commute is a long time away from SO
you can't be committed 24/7 I don't want you
@rlemon I totes stack all day except sometimes weekends
I just generally stick to JavaScript tagged questions
I have over 14 hours a day to spend on here
I at least have the chats open from 8am to ~midnight
@Unihedro That's not healthy :p
7:01 PM
might not be actively on that tab tho.
@bjb568 He wants to know how you've changed. He's expressing it in a way that pisses you off, but that's where he's coming from. Even if you disagree that "how have you changed" is invalid to begin with, in his mind, it isn't. So play politician and address it. If you're truly confident that it's a non-issue, you wouldn't even blink at his comments. If you find yourself getting defensive, it's a good opportunity to figure out why.
Tab is always open for me
A lot of if's in there but the point is you have tons of opportunity here in many areas.
@meagar can you teach me to healthy? never heard of it
7:02 PM
@JasonC I'm getting defensive because Room 17 will overpower me.
@bjb568 if you managed to make such an impression on an entire chatroom, of course they're not going to vote for you.
I can't answer "How have you changed?", it's NARQ.
Suck it up and prove us wrong, or stay defensive and lose votes. It's quite simple bro
@SterlingArcher Thanks for stating the obvious.
7:03 PM
Play politician.
@Shog9 I have an unrequited support request that has languished for 22 days hoping a kindly CM might stop by. Since that has not happened, I am now willing to open it up to servicing by all the other sorts, too. :)
@bjb568 It's a completely real question.
I was asked the same thing, and answered it.
sudo apt-get install politicalreasoning
Anyone have popcorn?
7:04 PM
@meagar i wish someone asked me that
Thank you for confirming you haven't changed your attitude.
Wait, aptget install
@Unihedro You know, I was wondering. How have you changed?
I wish someone asked me anything. My post has been depressingly quiet.
@JasonC what are your views on pants?
7:05 PM
Except for a spattering of unexpected support from the rebel faction.
@JasonC If you were a moderator, how would you deal with your everyday life?
@meagar Not when asked from the perspective of "You're a nuisance.".
@meagar umm... Meta taught me a lot
Seeing as moderators can be... quite different:
in In Praise of Moderators, Feb 5 '14 at 21:36, by Pëkka
Moderators routinely dismiss the American flag.
@rlemon I strongly disagree with pants. I propose fuzzying the pants, because currently I think users are intimidated by the vast size of their pants.
7:06 PM
Never mind, that question doesn't favor me after all.
@JasonC they are just evil "long shorts" anyways.
One of the first things I will do as moderator is clean up low quality pants.
Ah, the ol' "Who wears short shorts?" campaign
I'm not going to host any campaign or promises.
@Unihedro Well
Context helps
7:07 PM
I was asked how I've changed since last year; that wouldn't be a meaningful question for you :p
I'm disappointed Evan isn't running.
@hichris123 I keep expecting him to turn up
7:08 PM
@Unihedro I don't mean it that way
@meagar "I joined SO"
Dammit, what's that for @tchrist?
@hichris123 I would give special privileges to my cats, and close low-quality humans.
7:09 PM
@Unihedro Unspeakable devils.
But in my case it was "how have you changed since last year", in bjb's case it was "how have you changed since X". Just "how have you changed" isn't much of a question
@bjb568 Don't take it from that perspective. Just answer the question of how have you changed. He gave you examples that he's concerned about - almost all of them from a year ago. Has your behavior on the site changed in the last 9-12 months? If so, how?
@meagar You're correct :)
@Andy I don't even know what he's concerned about.
The real challenge is figuring out how you change on a daily basis
7:09 PM
@JasonC hrm well that's not good:
in In Praise of Moderators, Jan 13 '14 at 16:03, by Duncan
@Pëkka That's nothing. I saw a moderator pulling drowning cats from a bag in a canal, only to throw them into the correct canal with more appropriate weights in the bag.
I should be careful what I wish for.
.... eek
@bjb568 No man, you're not getting it. Let's say, for the sake for argument, that he totally does think you're a nuisance, and even if his claim is completely off-base, it's still his claim. Your goal is to win his vote.
> calling people vamps, deciding who deserves an answer, revenge downvoting, snark, meta abuse, downvote asking
I still do, wat, no, unclear, wat, HOW IS DOWNVOTE ASKING A BAD THING? (link given is to nuked post btw)
@JasonC this guy gets it! (message.bind(JasonC).call()) // gives 'this' context
7:12 PM
Jason gets my vote for the logic :)
@bjb568 That's what he's concerned about. Do you still do this behavior? If so, why? If not, why not? In either case, how is this behavior appropriate for a moderator?
@bjb568 As your unofficial publicist: I'd avoid "how is downvote asking a bad thing". You don't have to address and defend his specific examples. You can't, and it's pointless, he'll just cherry pick new ones. Address the underlying issue he has with you, not the specific examples. If you focus on the examples you'll not only get lost, but you won't change his opinion. Brush them aside and go for the root of his claims.
it is a nice coincidence that any post mentioning the election or bjb in the js room has been getting flagged
Join Java. Nothing happens.
7:15 PM
so you admit to flagging a link to your profile?
Mmm Java
@JasonC But what's the underlying issue?
Have you installed political reasoning yet?
7:17 PM
There is a flood of 10k users coming to 17 because of spam flagging.
Oh hi @Jeff
I smell a suspension
@SterlingArcher none of the flags are valid.
@SterlingArcher FYI:
Q: Can we use something other than reputation as the bottleneck for election primaries?

AstroCBWe recently began the sixth moderator election on Stack Overflow. There is a huge number of highly qualified candidates, and there are 23 overall at the time of this writing. That's great, but there's this to consider: After 7 days, the top 30 nominees, ordered by reputation, advance to the ...

Doesn't that mean that they are poor flags and the flagger is at fault?
7:18 PM
Also, employee response #2:
A: Can we use something other than reputation as the bottleneck for election primaries?

Jon EricsonReading the question reminded me of something Joel wrote about interviewing: On the other hand, if you reject a good candidate, I mean, I guess in some existential sense an injustice has been done, but, hey, if they're so smart, don't worry, they'll get lots of good job offers. There will b...

So the invalid flags cause suspensions, right?
@AstroCB got my vote. Rep doesn't determine moderative qualities, just site activity
@rlemon ... forrel...
I'm not sure if there is a system to count valid/invalid chat flags
7:19 PM
What is room 17
@JasonC chat.so javascript room
@SterlingArcher Much appreciated (although I hit the rep cap 8 hours ago).
Is it private?
@JasonC nope, come visit us sometime
Less drama than the C++ room
7:20 PM
Oh weird I tried going there a few minutes ago and it said private.
@SterlingArcher Oh god, I imagine the C++ room is a nightmare.
We have even less drama...
All the snark of comp.lang.c++, but in real time.
@bjb568 I don't know if it's you or not. But apparently you have the motive and the means, so I'm going to ask you to, if it's you, please consider that when you flag someone in a chat, all 10k users in the network receives an annoying notification. Seeing that these flags never go through, this means that you are annoying way more people than those that you really want to target. If you have something against the JS people, can you please find another way to make them suffer?
@Unihedro well, that tends to happen when there is 1 post every hour lol
@bjb568 I'll tell you what I'm concerned about.
in Stack Overflow 2015 Moderator Election Chat on Stack Overflow Chat, 1 hour ago, by AstroCB
@BenjaminGruenbaum The problem with bjb is that he's a bit...overzealous. If he believes in something, he's not really going to budge on it.
in Stack Overflow 2015 Moderator Election Chat on Stack Overflow Chat, 1 hour ago, by AstroCB
And I can see that being a large problem if he were called out on something as a mod.
And that's already proving tue.
7:22 PM
Did someone say... VANILLA JS? :D :D :D
@Jefffrey I mean this seriously, please don't even say that lol. We've had way too much troll suffering and I'm not recovered from the last bout.
@AlexisKing that is a jquery plugin right?
@rlemon Yeah, it's really good, 10/10 would recommend.
sweet. I needed something, my underscore,jQuery,angular,bower,bootstrap stack was feeling a bit light.
7:24 PM
@rlemon Underscore and Bootstrap are old news, swap them out for lodash and Foundation. :)
Ok, now messages from Benjamin hours old are being flagged. Seriously.
@AstroCB You're implying that someone responding to some criticism by flagging every post possibly related might be a bit overzealous?
@Danack allegedly flagging
That's a pretty loaded comment.
ehh.. I'm walking away from this
@JasonC Someone's flagging them....it would be interesting to know who.
7:26 PM
No, it wouldn't.
Patience, not zeal, is the primary virtue of a moderator.
@Unihedro crab-walking*
unless it's veal, then it's the primary meal
@AstroCB Fwiw, personally that's actually a quality I really respect, even if it doesn't jive with being a moderator in its current form.
40 more reasons why bjb won't win later...
7:27 PM
unless it's teal, then it's the primary color
@JasonC As do I, but in a position like that, you absolutely have to be able to handle criticism, be it constructive or not.
I feel it would be different if I were a moderator, vs just a victim of an struggle between two chat rooms.
Yes it will.
@bjb568 ...which is the result of you running for the moderator position.
7:29 PM
Actions speak louder than words, @bjb.
victim? that's an lol
... Which is why I didn't put any words in my candidacy ;)
hashtag shameless brag :|
@bjb568 Maybe that's the case, but think of it like this, then: The moment you nominate yourself is the moment you need to start pretending you are a moderator and acting like you would act. To gain votes you need to show you can do it, rather than expect people to just trust that you can (even if you know you can).
@Unihedro I didn't say words were silent. ;p
A Vote For Unihedro Is A Vote For CrabHats!
7:31 PM
downvoters' hat :)
I wouldn't vote for Unihedro either to be honest.
Don't worry @Jefffrey, no hard feelings. :p
I'm not sure who I'm voting for this year.
@bjb You need to start putting whatever pressure you would put on yourself as a moderator on yourself now.
7:31 PM
No one gave me popcorn. :(
I got surprisingly little feedback on my candidacy post, honestly.
s/surprisingly/disappointingly for me.
@rlemon Much better.
Or however many s's and p's should be in there.
7:32 PM
Let's add some butter too:
@bjb568 Can I hear your voice in the "room 17 vs bjb" discussion?
I'm trying to watch my figure, thanks.
Well, when you package yourself as a Meta police, that happens @AlexisKing @JasonC
@hichris123 Well, I'd say you need salt, but I think there's more than enough to go around in this room at the moment.
@rlemon lol
7:33 PM
@SterlingArcher flagged, can you explain a bit of why that's an LOL?
@JasonC I'd ignore it or nuke it if it's bad enough. I can't do either now.
@Unihedro Dude, I totally didn't intend that!
@Haney because there's been nothing victimizing about these two chat rooms
[ SmokeDetector ] Repeating characters in body: Unable to update Flashplayer by user435364 on superuser.com
Nobody has made fun of, called names, etc
7:34 PM
@AlexisKing Hrm how about corn on the cob too?
@Unihedro I'm honestly not sure how you derive that from either of our candidacy statements.
@Jefffrey What do you mean?
alright I'm dismissing the flag
@Haney people are discussing mod nominations and a bunch of flags have resulted on any message mentioning @bjb568 or the election (in the js room, I can't see them here obviously)
7:34 PM
@bjb568 You're not going to want to go around nuking criticism if you want to maintain a positive image.
@Haney thanks
@JasonC I will try to avoid it of course.
Ignoring is easy enough.
Hearsay, but @bjb568 flags are for serious issues like threats and personal insults, not critics
This place has gotten really toxic all of a sudden. o.o
criticism is a healthy part of discourse
peace out all
7:35 PM
deuces modman
bye SE team
@Haney Without the explanation, I found it to be insulting. With explanation, of course, it's completely reasonable.
then ask him for an explanation
communication is important
@bjb568 Well, ignoring is the easy way out. Deftly changing the underlying opinions and gaining support and trust from those who start off disliking you is the impressive part.
not trying to be harsh, but you need to address concerns vs flag them
if you do get insulted or threatened, definitely flag it and I'll banhammer
but if not, just be open to communication :)
7:36 PM
@bjb568 They seem to be criticising you for not being "appropriate" in being a moderator. You seem to be ignoring them, and the JS room is full of flags right now. Also they gave some weird but very old evidence of you not being exactly good at handling specific situations. What's your take in all this?
@Haney I've done that many times (with the same issue). Didn't end well.
Updated kick list after 4 more candidates throw their hats in:
1. Ty221
2. Me
3. @bjb568
4. @hichris123
5. @Unihedro
6. @Undo
7. @AlexisKing
8. @Mooseman
I'm not gonna moderate free speech / opinion
That sets a bad precedent.
Just me or should the whole world take a step back from their keyboard & go outside?
Just you.
7:37 PM
@AstroCB Well, I've been bumped down the list a bit, I guess.
Everybody assume the best intentions in each other, and enjoy :)
@hichris123 jokes on you. standing desk. I step back from my keyboard constantly.
I'm all for communication, but when the other side doesn't communicate it makes things difficult.
Assume good faith, let the show go on :)
@rlemon Do you have one of those treadmill things?
7:38 PM
@bjb568 Welp, things are difficult. Deal with it. It's a good skill to have!
Be nice to each other
@hichris123 nope, I put my two workin pc's a foot apart
constantly have to take a step from one to the other
@bjb568 There isn't another side. People don't hate you, they want you to improve. We're all on the same side.
That's not true
@rlemon two? Why not multi-monitor?
7:39 PM
JS people are clearly ganging up on him.
@Jefffrey Hm… well… There's a message marked "official statement" posted by me in this room which you might want to look at to understand better (keeping in mind it's basically a flag that happens to be public, i.e. for mods).
@Jefffrey clearly?
@bjb568: be confident in yourself. Take a step back and identify what you're fighting for. The JS room isn't trying to bash you.
@Jefffrey could you please backup that statement before accusing an entire room?
I'm going back to my popcorn.
7:39 PM
... until you made them, that is
Er, chocolate.
Are you guys ganging up on me now?
JS people are ganging up on everything
@Jefffrey we no gang we for peace
7:40 PM
@Jefffrey Yes, and the same issue happened while I and certain other users were in Room 17. They do hold grudges.
Plot twist: People form groups.
@SterlingArcher I have a long and exhausting experience in ganging up against people.
7:40 PM
So it's an ad experience argument, or something.
@Pham NICE.
7:41 PM
@Unihedro [citation-needed]
@Unihedro <- is awesome as usual.
A: Meta SE 404 page image is dull

MoosemanPlease, oh please, FOR THE LOVE OF META! Use this as a 404:

Good to see Pham's useful for something. :p
7:42 PM
I've found the solution:
in Stack Overflow 2015 Moderator Election Chat on Stack Overflow Chat, 2 hours ago, by Alexis King
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 24 hours ago, by AstroCB
Let's create the Tavern Party of Meta and have our own primary to prevent conflicts.
@rene it is a symptom of only having one thread
@bjb568 This?
+1, bring back the waffles!Shadow Wizard Apr 20 '14 at 23:37
-1 Not enough jQuery. — Unihedro Nov 21 '14 at 11:46
@Mooseman Lol, looks like I even got outvoted by trogdor.
7:42 PM
We should drop this conversation about bjb's candidacy and try jquery
@rlemon This should be Android then where we have NetworkOnMainThread exceptions.
@Jefffrey yes
I tried jQuery once but rehab saved me
@Unihedro I totally agree.
@SterlingArcher ugh, out of stars
7:43 PM
How is @bjb even qualified for a Stack Overflow mod election with such an unpopular position on jQuery?
I like jQuery, it makes my code look expensive.
@rlemon s/jQuery/Java
Java makes me feel like I just ate a big mac
@bjb568 Ok, and you deny revenge flagging in the JS room?
Of course you do. That's the only sensible thing you can do right now.
Admitting it would throw you out of the election, if it was true.
7:45 PM
If he lies, however, and it is discovered so later, this whole mess will begin again next year. "What has changed since you lied about flagging in chat rooms last year?"
I didn't deny anything.
I just agreed with Jefffrey.
So his sock flagged them?
Then technically, bjb isn't the one who flagged.
7:46 PM
This conversation is ridiculous. I want my happy, silly Tavern back. :<
I.. what
3 mins ago, by Sam
@Unihedro I totally agree.
I like Jefffrey here tho. He can stay.
Elections are crazy.
You guys should probably discuss this in the election chat room.
7:47 PM
Funny thing is that if the flags stop, then it might look compromising against bjb.
@bjb ... I'm dying
nuu, uni!
So he can't do that either.
@JasonC Yeah, why is this happening in here, anyway?
@JasonC The Tavern is swayed in bjb's favor; he'd probably rather stay here.
7:47 PM
Starting now, I'm going to be overzealously sticking up for bjb in this room, because this is really starting to make me uncomfortable and irritated.
@JasonC ha, not there
@AstroCB Swayed in bjb's favor? You must be joking.
@AlexisKing More than in the election room.
Oh well. I guess the only thing to do for me is to log off SO for a day, and hope this flag madness disappears.
7:48 PM
@Jefffrey That's probably a good idea.
Or maybe cover the left corner of the screen with something.
Not accusing, but the flags have stopped since people dropped the topic in the JS room
You should probably continue discussions about the JS room in the JS room.
Maybe its some other candidate that is framing bjb to get him out of the election.
7:49 PM
This makes me happy:
@JasonC well, you just lost my vote. :D JS room is everywhere
@JasonC heh, no
@Jefffrey well bjb isn't denying it
7:50 PM
I'm surprised @bjb isn't banned from there by now.
we are legion
We happily welcome criticism in the JS chat room... with pitchforks.
I'm accusing. If bjb isn't denying it, it's obviously him. Whatever. Who cares? He's not going to win this election. Neither am I. Please take this out of this chatroom.
This bulletin is crazy:
@AlexisKing Then withdraw.
^ Not Russian, I think.
The Tavern I know and love is slowing coming back!
@JasonC I'll stay in for the experience, I guess. I'd like to win. I don't expect to, though.
@AlexisKing Then stop whining about how you've already lost.
Pick one.
7:51 PM
@AlexisKing if my minor hockey coach taught me nothing: if you expect to lose, you've already lost.
@AlexisKing That's not encouraging from a voter perspective.
@JasonC I'm not whining about that, I'm whining about this chatroom being completely overrun by election conversation when there is an election chatroom.
Always believe yourself is like "Getting power 101"
I really hope that nobody thinks of running for mod as "getting power" :|
7:53 PM
@rlemon is that before of after he taught you how to use your skate as a weapon?
@meagar I doubt anyone thinks that. :)
I don't know if I'll win. But I want to help with the queues. If it's not this year, it will be next.
@SterlingArcher ohh you silly goose. my skate isn't a weapon... yours is ;) I'll need mine for later :P
Yeah, the point of being a moderator is not to get more power.
@meagar We all know you're only in this to impress the ladies (or guys, if that's how you roll).
7:54 PM
@AlexisKing There… are… people
@JasonC I have sufficiently impressed one single lady
@bjb568 What are you implying?
@meagar Good answer.
The point is to... wait, what is the point of running for moderator again?
deal with crap
and human exceptions
7:54 PM
@Unihedro And why can't you do that already?
@AlexisKing There are people who run for the wrong reasons unfortunately. There'll always be some candidates who totally don't understand SE at all.
@meagar she's playing the long scam. something something she's in it for your java applet building abilities.
I got nothing..
@Jefffrey ... Don't have the tool :P
@rlemon Oof. Java applets?
@rlemon She's a competent coder :)
7:55 PM
@Jefffrey You don't get binding votes without mod tools.
@meagar Now I have Beyonce's song in my head. Thank you.
@Unihedro You misspelled "power" there.
@meagar yea, which is why she makes you write the java. :D #burn
On the other hand, she's a brilliant designer, and I'm miserable at design, so really I'm after her skillz
I have the power, just in its inapplicable form.
7:56 PM
So you don't have the necessary power.
... At some point into this conversation you'll make me withdraw my candidate post.
I'm seriously still really confused why this is in this chatroom. Why can't it go in the chatroom specifically built for this conversation?
@AlexisKing 'cuz rules are meant to be broken. :p
@rlemon I couldn't find a sufficient "crash and burn" gif in a reasonable amount of time. But know that the thought was there.
@JasonC :D
7:57 PM
@AlexisKing Best way to change topic is to stop complaining about changing the topic and start a new interesting topic.
@JasonC ... Robot Jox reference?
I like trains
@Jefffrey Fine. Imma get a Clojure job, I think! Anyone like Clojure?
7:58 PM
@AlexisKing Is that statically typed?
@Jefffrey Not by default, but there is Typed Clojure, which is.
my SO's father is into trains. I don't get the appeal.
he's tried to get me into them
me likey trainz
@meagar Lol, Robot Jox. Actually it was a general reference. But I totally forgot about that movie.
teh trainz r kewl
7:59 PM
@Uni Which version of Mono have ya got again?
@JasonC It is one of my favorite terrible movies

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