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12:00 PM
Am not a rep whore @nicael :)
@InfiniteRecursion 20,000 repz?
Still not a rep whore @nicael
@InfiniteRecursion i didn't expect it won't work :D
20k and a pond @InfiniteRecursion ...
final offer
@InfiniteRecursion 100k repz?
12:02 PM
Seriously guys, stappit !
Pff, I guess we can release Skeet then ... no need for his rep any more.
@InfiniteRecursion -20k repz? you're not rep whore you said... ;)
At least bring back the glasses ...
@DwarfSlice Can't believe I've missed that. Nice. Thanks :)
12:04 PM
Skeet uses his real name and identity @Bart, it helps him irl, that is not my case. I am an anonymous entity :)
Wait ... so your name is not Infinite Recursion? .... my whole life is a lie ...
No @nicael, won't work :)
@Bart dumping his rep will take... about 481 days.
@Bart im suggesting a poll.
@Bart Yes, your whole life...is a lie
12:08 PM
@InfiniteRecursion at least I still have this cake ...
@Bart They are still linked in my MSE profile as my favorite gift
@InfiniteRecursion please prove it. in... 2 days.
@nicael It's Bart's life, ask him to prove it
@Bart Sorry, there is no spoon.
Q: This is a test to check if you can predict the keywords for the post

Raviteja GundaLet me check if you can predict the keywords this post

12:15 PM
@nicael You mean duck?
@Inf Nice, it's purple!
Thanks @Frank :)
You got glasses too, like bjb. Nice :D
@InfiniteRecursion They're nasty, because I drew them in like 2 mins, with microsoft paint :/
Bart must be elated with so many users wearing glasses now.
They are nice @Frank, good job.
@InfiniteRecursion I wonder how long I should leave them on.
im flagbanned on so, damn.
Q: Why was I banned from flagging?

nicael On my newest flag page there is only one declined flag - for 19 oct. And suddenly... banned. Investigation?

12:26 PM
As long you wish to, @Frank. It's your avatar, you will know when to change/modify it.
@Frank Microsoft Paint is too overpowered.
@Unihedron Oh yeah?
Hey look:
in The Garden Shed on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 16 hours ago, by RubberDuck
You are the Jon Skeet of Gardening & Landscaping!
[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: SCREEN SMASHED AND NEED TO DELETE/WIPE/RESET EVERYTHING on android.stackexchange.com
oops, wrong link :P
Good going, Frank. Keep up the good work :)
12:28 PM
Ha, thanks.
Too tired to type today.
I'd make a weird Skeet, cause I ask lots of questions.
To keep the site going.
No need for that on SO.
Uni's on GL chat. :D
Anyone want to help a rookie coder (spoiler alert: me) fix a SQL syntax error? (SEDE query)
12:44 PM
@Unihedron no.
But the SQL room is empty! :(
12:55 PM
@nicael Your flag history looks a lot like mine :D
1:22 PM
I almost delete a email as spam from one of my uncles...
1:35 PM
Any CM in here? Will you kindly take a look at this post, I am not sure about how constructive it is, the mod could benefit from your expert guidance and help:
"We've had to step in multiple times to warn you about abusive language."- looks like a clear violation of moderator agreement, for your own benefit on your post, using information you gained as a moderator. That is what I meant by personal, apart from direct statements such as "Braiam is correct, everybody submit." Not even the paid community managers get close to your tone. Such kind of squabbles are disappointing from both of you. — Infinite Recursion 45 mins ago
Where are your fancy glasses @Inf?
Taking a break @ProgramFox :)
did you break my glasses?
How could you!
Nope, they are safe @Braiam. Bjb took them from me..
23 hours ago, by bjb568
takes glasses
23 hours ago, by bjb568
permanantly attaches kewlness to face
glares @bjb
you know what will happen if something happens to the glasses @bjb568, right?
1:43 PM
I hope they have a Glasses hat for Winterbash this year.
I already know the name of that hat: Deal With It
Everyone here told you not to post the rant, and I tried to edit it to a less ranty tone, but now things are getting bad. I hope this ends soon.
aren't you detecting that I'm expressly avoiding the topic?
btw, the one you told me I shouldn't post and this one are totally different
Yes, detected. Okay.
2:00 PM
Oh, cool where are things getting bad? Do you need my Dutch touch?
@rene yes cv queue :p
@TGMCians Ha, I'll see how much wreak havoc I can cause there
@Stijn cv from me
@rene thanks. Bumped on this question by accident while looking for a new chess GUI. You'd think a 100k user knows better than to post such a question.
2:15 PM
@Stijn well, if you like to gamble...
@rene things are bad here
@ProgramFOX Running since 14:21:21 UTC
^ New SmokeDetector command!
2:23 PM
@InfiniteRecursion Running since 14:21:21 UTC
@InfiniteRecursion What I suggested last night is basically in the highest upvoted answer. The rest of the answers and comments are noise IMHO.
2:43 PM
[ SmokeDetector ] Phone number detected, All-caps title: +91-9950211818 GET MY H U S B A N D B A C K on english.stackexchange.com
@SmokeDetector true
@ProgramFOX Registered as true positive: added title to Bayesian doctype 'bad'.
Merry Christmas everyone! (And while I am at it: Happy new year)
why Ctrl+Enter doesn't submit a post but does submit a edit?
@InfiniteRecursion! The duck!!!!!? :(
2:48 PM
@Braiam cuz you haven't installed that userscript
@Unihedron ARG!
I want the duck back @Inf. Please? :)
@WeaponofChoice Not quite sure yet what exactly will be on-topic. I'm thinking any programming-related question about a specific problem. This could include "how to fix bug" "how to do this" "how to use tool" "which is faster" "is there a better way to write this mess" and anything from programmers.
Re "isn't SO good enough: Well, I dunno. It has l problems. I want to see if I can fix them.
@bjb568 Like what?
Having a small community instead of people throwing flames?
2:59 PM
The stream of crap. The first improvement is I'm making the asking process much longer and complicated.
We should not make to too complicated. We should not give users bad UX.
It isn't just complicated, it's more like the simple kind of it. SE tells to user to enter their crap into the box and post it. DD guides the user thru steps which I'll put quality-verification algors on. Instead of posting crap, there's a specific box for everything that the user can write high(er)-quality things about.
@hichris123 ok, I can't say no to you.
@InfiniteRecursion :D
3:06 PM
@InfiniteRecursion :D
patiently awaits for caching
nicael offered a lot of rep for the duck, I didn't agree
@InfiniteRecursion :D
@InfiniteRecursion I was going to say that, you should scam them. :P
@Unihedron I am not a rep whore :)
... Bart's whole life is still a lie
^star troll
3:14 PM
If we are trolling Bart, count me in...
3 hours ago, by Bart
Wait ... so your name is not Infinite Recursion? .... my whole life is a lie ...
^we aren't trolling Bart, he said so himself
is still waiting for caching
@Unihedron same link twice?
3:21 PM
yay, duck.
my gravatar :(
@InfiniteRecursion ... but duck!
Ducks make everything better. They just look so peaceful and happy...
@hichris123 yes, and then people call me a d*ck for saying hiya to uni...
@InfiniteRecursion Might just be @JanDvorak. Who's a meanie anyway. :P
3:27 PM
@hichris123 yes, I told him to call me a bitch instead, atleast preserves the gender.
@Unihedron keyboard warriors will know the answer
Out of u/dvs :(
Rude OP
if you don't wana answer then simply keep quit — user964829 3 mins ago
@InfiniteRecursion For some reason, people seem to think downvotes & closevotes means that "the person can't answer" or "it's too hard to answer for that person". I dunno why.
3:31 PM
@hichris123 I partly blame ourself for it....
@Braiam How so?
@hichris123 Yes, it's very sad
Kablam with that answer.
8 flags!
3:35 PM
@hichris123 would you downvote a post for something said in comments that isn't constructive (don't help to clarify the post, it isn't a critique to the post, etc.)?
@bjb568 o_O
@Braiam Usually not.
@Unihedron where's the meta for the PC tag?
Q: Burninate [pc] tag

Pokechu22This tag, pc, seems absolutely pointless, has no tag wiki or anything. It's just vague, and can mean several things.

I think should be used instead. Gratitude and parting messages are polite.
@Unihedron For those, leave the tag. It makes it a ton easier to find crappy questions to close when that's all that's left in the tag.
3:53 PM
@hichris123 That would make it a cleanup request then
And plus, 45% of the questions with the tag are crap, that's why the meta post got many upvotes
@Unihedron Sure, but there's no guarantee that it'll get closed otherwise.
Thanks for advice
@Unihedron btw:
A: When to burninate

Shog9Before you start doing anything, put a little bit of thought into the request: Does this tag even need to be burninated? There are a lot of burninate-requests posted to various meta sites that are... To put it gently... A complete and utter waste of everyone's time. Some folks will seemingly p...

* The meta post has vote scores of <code><b>+21</b> / -0</code>, our meta participants has fully expressed their likeness of this burnination request.
* There has been no opposition as answers or comments whatsoever after a reasonable of time.
* This is not a popular tag and there is no reason to put a high threshold for further waiting.
1. Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous?
no, there are more specific tags
2. Is the concept described even on-topic for the site?
3. Does the tag add any meaningful information to the post?
no, see: platform-detection, cross-platform, platform-specific
4. Does it mean the same thing in all common contexts?
@Unihedron I meant this part:
> If, after discussion, there is widespread agreement that a tag really does need to be burned, then...
4:07 PM
I think that what @hichris123 tries to say is to first start closing stuff and deleting and then just remove it from whatever is left @Unihedron
@Braiam Yup, pretty much.
@Braiam just figured that out the moment you posted the message.
@Unihedron no... right now is the moment I read it
wow, so much reviews in SU
question containing link to 18+ site stackoverflow.com/questions/26575270/…
Seriously, that is the only example that you could find? — Moobs 52 secs ago
Okay, the link is removed from the question, but now it's still a VLQ question.
people keep downvoting my Area51 HackOverflow question, and since it's on 9 points and some people wants to bring it up the the 10-pt mark, it gets upvoted. At the end, the downvote-upvote process nets me free points!
4:50 PM
@WeaponofChoice Excerpt sounds weird.
the title is priceless
5:11 PM
yeah, postfix
Why would you flag that hilarious answer? Don't you have a sense of humor? ;p — Bill the Lizard ♦ 21 hours ago
I think this is a valid question (despite, perhaps, a bit misguided) and don't think it deserves so many downvotes.. but whatever. You Meta.SO folk are really doing a good job getting rid of the harshness! — Seth 15 hours ago
5:36 PM
anyone wanting to flag to delete old stub merged posts? stackoverflow.com/…
5:55 PM
Please don't hurt me if this is wrong (I failed high school chemistry), but enzymes generally assist in chemical changes, and I am reading online that pectinase helps make this ethanol. So I am assuming the pectinase is still there as long as the fermentation is not complete. But it's not a cleaning agent, unless if you are making juice or liquor. — Avery Morrow 11 hours ago
@InfiniteRecursion you mean molecular biology or organic chemistry
6:04 PM
@Braiam organic chemistry
@InfiniteRecursion mm?
planning to dump some rep on mse :D who WANTS some?
As long as it's not black money ;)
@Unihedron s/black money/PHP/
The OP also links to that site in his profile.
6:07 PM
@ProgramFOX vlq at most
doesn't strike me as spam
I flagged it as spam
@Braiam It's his only post, he links to the site in his profile and he is the Founder of that site.
@Unihedron dump&burn :D
@nicael gimme :D
@ProgramFOX he disclosed he's related with the site in question....
6:09 PM
@Unihedron how much?
@nicael idk
inb4 how much you have
100k for uni please!
@Braiam Why would he ever being interested in knowing how to count likes there? He is the founder, he should have access to that.
@ProgramFOX he's asking us how to test his website "likes" mechanism
ie, that it works as expected
6:12 PM
note to self: founder knows nothing, never visit that site
@Braiam If that's his real intention, then the question is not really spam, but at least it's VLQ.
6 mins ago, by Braiam
@ProgramFOX vlq at most
Flagged as spam, better to have mods take a look
@Braiam I'd say it's VLQ at least, not at most. That question is entirely unsalvageable and should be deleted.
@InfiniteRecursion Sounds more like you're auctioning. :P
6:16 PM
@Unihedron 500 is good?
@nicael Ok thanks!
Spam flagged too.
Spam gone.
Why would I auction your peeping eye @uni? :P
6:18 PM
I gotta go now though, it's 2am and I have school tomorrow / later today. Night!
night, sleep well
6:19 PM
I feel welcomed
We feel relieved
You need moar sleep.
^we gave the best answer
6:22 PM
@JanDvorak closed
@JanDvorak that was quick.
@Unihedron as soon as I award one of my active bounties because I have 3 active now.
And @Jan, stop being a meanie to the duck!
am I?
-13 and counting...
6:24 PM
This isn't even possible. If the age is 60 days, is it an age of 1 month, or of 2 months? If the person was born in february, it's two months. If in june, it's just shy of. — Jan Dvorak 1 min ago
14 hours ago, by Jan Dvorak
@InfiniteRecursion don't be a dick
@Sam -15
> enter number of days (7 bits number). Print ... The age in years only
that one actually is easy
can't stop watching
That question is of average quality by Math standards... SO is harsh
Or rather, math is rather tolerant of crappy questions
they aren't that big; they can afford a bit of leeway
ok @nicael
I do, I also need moar timez @bjb568
6:34 PM
@JanDvorak that
6:45 PM
> deleted by Ed Heal, lc., Soner Gönül at -17 score
@Unihedron time = 128000; go();
@InfiniteRecursion Looks like a pretty good answer to a pretty poor question
Also, this is the moderator agreement - note how specific it is? There are only two things you must agree to, plus the "I do not represent SE the company" bit at the end which is mostly informational - you don't need to agree to that for it to be true.
i. "I'm not going to violate the ToS or any other explicit policies made known to me" -> everyone posting on any of the sites must already agree to the ToS, plus as a moderator if someone here tells you to not do something specific you'd best not do it.
ii. "I'm not going to release PII publicly or use it for anything other than moderating my site" PII is something that can be used to identify a person - for instance, their legal name or email address. Possibly IP address in some situations, although addresses are not always PII - it depends on context (when in doubt though...)
@Nit: So, you're suggesting what? Blackmailing the instructors? — georgechalhoub 4 hours ago
6:57 PM
I assume you're talking about the "don't talk about the reasons for a suspension publicly" guideline. That's done out of courtesy for the person being suspended, and they're free to waive it if they choose - we don't like dragging them through the mud publicly, but if they leave us no choice then so be it.
I've certainly had occasion to talk about the details of such things publicly before. For instance, when someone gets suspended and then goes to meta to misrepresent what happened and try to stir up trouble.
I don't believe the answer even mentioned suspensions anywhere anyway.
@Shog9 but I see many suspensions with phrases like "this user has been suspended for voting irregularities/ plagirizing / to cool down".. Should they not say that?
Q: Avoid the Streisand Effect - be clear about the reason when suspending an account

Shog9This sort of thing has happened a few times now... "Hey, did you see? User X was boxed!" "User X? Why?" "I donno... Maybe he... " (wild speculation ensues. waffles are blamed.) It's generally quite easy to notice when a user gets thrown in The Penalty Box. You see the tell-tale 1 when...

@ɥʇǝS it didn't
I do believe ol' @Inf was reading a bit too much into it, which I again blame on the lackluster question
I replied in detail in chat, @InfiniteRecursion, but to your "content not user" concern... It's worth noting that there's no specific problem to be solved here in the question - the request for guidance here is impossibly broad, which all but forces answerers to play Daniel: "tell me my problem, then tell me the solution". Oli, no doubt well aware of the history behind this request, did a pretty good job of that - but still the question remains too broad and I've closed it as such pending an edit that focuses on a specific problem. — Shog9 ♦ 6 secs ago
@Shog9 I presume you notice that is a support question? not a discussion, there only matter to be solved is: how do I approach X situations?
which I think is being done in the question itself
Then I think you're using the support tag wrong ;P
> A request for assistance with one of the site's features.
7:08 PM
no, is precisely how we should use the support tag:
> Downvoting of legitimate support questions - those that are not duplicates and reflect an actual bug or honest misunderstanding of how the system operates. Folks who are acting in good faith should be treated as such - we should be doing more to help them thrive, not shutting them down.
@Braiam still needs to be specific enough to be answerable. Is the problem that you're unsure of how to address the right people? Then we need to know who those people are: flaggers, closers, editors, answerers, etc.
Is the problem that you're unsure of how to phrase your objection? Then we need to know more about your specific objection - this becomes a question of etiquette, which - while based on broad principles - is always a question of details.
@Shog9 closevoters
and in some cases, reviewers
@Braiam see? Edit that in.
Describe a scenario that happens often. Give specific examples. Elaborate on why you believe the outcome is problematic. Describe the outcome you feel would be more appropriate.
Scroll past the picture, and you'll find five specific suggestions for writing a good meta post here:
A: Can we talk about the voting culture here on Meta?

Shog9So I've been kinda chewing on this since your email, because... It's one of those simple questions that defies a simple answer. You're not the only person to raise this concern, of course: several respected users, moderators and even co-workers have expressed dismay upon seeing reasonable questio...

Not every meta post needs to follow all of them, but rare is the post that wouldn't benefit from at least one.
@Shog9 I already described the scenario, the community showed support (+11/-2), yet nothing changes
The more you can do, the better your question will be.
And... be patient. Really, that's probably the best advice regardless of the problem: a community is like a freight train, miles long and heavy - it can take a very long time to get them to move.
7:14 PM
btw, my interest was to get a general reference about how the issue could be approached in any site, not just to my specific case
@cVplZ I wish it was that simple. ;)
if I start with examples, the topic dilutes itself into it, by focusing in the examples and not in the general problem, which is exactly what I don't want
@Braiam your question isn't either of those..
@ɥʇǝS did you notice the emphasis?
7:18 PM
yes I did.
and your question isn't an honest misunderstanding of how the site works..
It has nothing to do with site features.
Read the tag wiki.
@ɥʇǝS you know that one of the most lauded "features" of the site is the culture?
how situations are solved
that's a feature
Site culture is not a feature, it is a thing. you can't "use" site culture. Either way all I am saying is would probably be more appropriate.
7:20 PM
not a technical one, but certainly a feature
yeah, why?
because you are asking for a discussion on how to respond to something.
@Braiam I assume you mean "canonical reference" not "general reference"?
@Shog9 lets say yes
@ɥʇǝS why you think so?
again: my propose isn't that
Why do I think what?
@Braiam What is it then?
@ɥʇǝS how to approach an issue which challenge the SE model
7:23 PM
(GR makes no sense in this context; a general reference is one without a specific topic/focus)
support is I need help using the site... I don't think you need help using the site, you're one of the more knowledgeable users of it :P
Joel Spolsky on January 05, 2011

Have you ever noticed how certain questions come up again and again on Stack Overflow sites?

Oh look, my PC is freezing. Should I use SELECT *? Oh, and, how can I host a server from home?

Really, people, do you want to be answering these same questions ten years from now? How about when you’re 65? That doesn’t sound so appealing now, does it?

We predicted this problem, even before we launched Stack Overflow. Why? Because the same thing happened on Usenet, where:

Most users could only see a few days or, at best, one month of archives for any given newsgroup. It was literally impossible  …

@Shog9 google doesn't help
@Braiam and so you are creating a discussion, especially because there is not 100% "exact" answer.
^^^ That's how you do a canonical reference: you start specific, until you find there's a general answer to a broad class of similar questions.
7:24 PM
btw, if you're talking about a challenge to the SE model you might want to put that in your question ;)
On rare occasions, a very broad question will prompt a very comprehensive answer and we get to skip all of that - but even then, as magical as it looks, that answer is usually the result of someone having done an awful lot of research and answered an awful lot of specific questions leading up to finding the broad one.
@Braiam I have an opinion on that too, if you want to hear it.
IOW, as more and more specific but generalizable questions are asked, it becomes increasingly likely that a "canonical" answer will arrive even if no one explicitly asks for it.
OTOH, if you ask for a canon before one exists... Then you'll just get confusion.
@Braiam in any case, what would you like to know that isn't in any of the answers? As far as I can tell, you are asking for help on how to get a community to change its ways and you've received the only reasonable answer which is "tell them they could be doing it better but do so politely". What else would you like to see?
@terdon oh, it's, the conversation right now is trying to find a way to make it general without being too broad
7:32 PM
sees conversation and sees floating head
looks complicated
take the glasses off and maybe it wouldn't :P
@Braiam Well, you posted that AU meta Q 10 days ago, give it some time to percolate through to the community, leave some comments linking to it along with your reopen votes when you find posts you consider to have been closed incorectly, things like that. Give it time basically.
@JanDvorak What's wrong with it?
and provide a solution to the problem. All you suggested was making everybody add a comment with certain things. That isn't going to work out too well.
7:37 PM
Thanks @Gnome :)
8 pings ringing my phone since I tried to sleep...
@ɥʇǝS that's the only possible solution, if the question is unclear you ask for clarification
not just dump it in a dump pit, that isn't really a solution and more like create problems
check the blog post, the third paragraph from the bottom
@Braiam Yes, but you didn't even try to make it easy. No wonder no one is adopting it fast.
Why is this question protected and not closed as primarily opinion based?
7:41 PM
I suggested a method more likely to provide quick results and you rejected it.
@ɥʇǝS no, you want yet-another-dump-pit, that is not acceptable
what you need to understand, is that doing what you want the right way is not possible/feasible
@Braiam why don't you edit your AU meta question and make the suggestion to ask for more info into an answer. It is easy to miss there at the end of the long introduction. That will also let people vote on it. I would also flesh it out a little, explain exactly what information should be requested for different errors.
@Braiam What you should understand is that that kind of statement just pisses people off. That kind of language is precisely the main problem. You just told Seth he needs to understand and that your way is the right way and his suggestion, therefore, is wrong. I don't know what his suggestion is, you may well be right, but telling him in such an authoritative and presumptuous manner makes you loose legitimacy.
Just avoid things like you need to do X or wrong. Even when you are in fact right, they come across as aggressive. Especially when many people either lack the expertise to understand your point or when your point is about a subject that is hard to pin down quantitatively such as "the right way" to run an SE site.
So instead of people hearing what may well be a reasonable proposal, they just see some guy yelling at them and ignore him.
(for those with full DD code access, I just pushed the ask page on the Q&A branch)
@bjb568 So I understood that the strength of DD (compared to SO) would be the mode elaborate process of asking questions, which would result in better structured questions. Sounds good. But... when the process is achieved, maybe just post the resulting question to SO, instead of duplicating the answering part? I.e., make DD a front-end for SO with better guidance and safety checks before a question is posted.
If it works, SE will acquire DD to make the system built-in. And you'll retire to the life of luxury.
7:59 PM
Well, I want to replicate SO kinda sorta-y. It's a learning experience for me.
And who would go to a website that just acts as a front end for another one?
8:14 PM
@DroidDev is MIA again... :-(
@rene yep, a troll
@ShadowWizard Doesn't seem like trolling, but it's definitely somebody who thinks SO is a tech forum.
@DwarfSlice oh well, crap is crap :/
crap != trolling
8:26 PM
@DwarfSlice troll is one who post crap on purpose, we'll have to look for future posts from that user and see
First he's a gnome ... now a dwarf ... are you secretly a troll @DwarfSlice? :p
coming soon to a banlist near you
@DwarfSlice ask @telkitty for directions ;D

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