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3:00 PM
@YiJiangsProble_ No better way to get a job offer, or at least be extended an offer to apply with high consideration, in my experience.
 
The conversation is only mostly dead.
Y
 
For those professional (ie. as your day-job) programmers out there, how many hours each day do you usually spend actually programming?
 
@cdeszaq 6. During Spring Break.
 
Lix
Well I sit at home programming in my spare time too... so... to give a definitive answer :
ALOT
 
In part, I guess I'm curious to know how much time is taken up dealing with other things like responding to emails, attending meetings, and other overhead, as well as non-programming development tasks like designing UIs or designing other application aspects
 
Lix
3:11 PM
@cde - in an ideal day (no unexpected meetings) I'd recon somewhere in the vicinity of 7hours... That's only programming for work purposes though...
 
@Lix so then, as a follow up, how structured is your work environment? (or, to measure it in a different way, how big is your programming/development team?)
 
Lix
minuscule team - on any of my projects I'm pretty much alone on the dev team... a little input from the CTO... other than that I'm on my own... And not much structure either - maybe I'm not the best test case :P
 
@cdeszaq My employer is "Agile" so I get to have 2 1.5-hour meetings each day!
There is an additional overhead of 1.5 hours for planning iterations and tasks that could be spent actually doing them, too.
 
@Lix On the contrary, that sounds like exactly my situation, so that's the idea comparison for me (at least right now) :)
 
Lix
@min - if you haven't already - this ted talk might interest you :)
Jason Fried: Why work doesn't happen at work
@cde - I actually really like being the only one on a project most of the time. You really get that satisfaction of doing it all...
 
3:18 PM
@Lix Unless the project is boring.
 
@Lix I agree in general, but my work isn't nailed down enough for me to really make much progress, so I end up spinning my wheels and not getting anywhere much of the time. And, as @minitech said, it's harder if the projects are boring
 
Lix
@min - ALL my projects are spamy Facebook apps - It can still be interesting though :)
 
@Lix You're the one responsible for those? Hey, everyone! Get him!
 
Lix
@pop -Hehehe - you don't even want to know the amount of times my account has been suspended because I was the administrator of an EXTREMELY spamy app...

They (Facebook) received so much negative feedback from users (blocks/removes/spam reports) that they closed down my personal account!
That an TOS violations coming out of client requests...
 
A little teaser for a user script I'm working on:
 
3:31 PM
Hmm :P
 
Lix
@bal - "Shut up and take my bounty!" ;)
Looks awesome and super useful for those long and thorough answers :)
 
@balpha I really like that! Good stuff.
 
Agreed. Looks great. I've been feeling that pain myself
 
@Moshe /me slaps @Moshe
 
3:42 PM
@moot why?
 
> he’s at least 30. I don’t usually see gamers that old.
 
I don't.
Haha.
I grew up playing pokemon at age ten.
 
@Moshe Nice.
 
I suppose you don't see a lot of us 30+ gamers on the train. :P
 
Thanks. :-)
 
3:45 PM
@Moshe Perhaps @mootinator is resentful about you calling 30 year olds old =)
 
Yup. Except today I saw two of them.
Hahaha. I'm only ten years away.
@mootinator, my sincerest apologies.
 
@Moshe We're all successful enough to afford to live near work. Or drive.
Yeah, that's it.
 
Haha
 
> @casperOne♦: You are shamelessly covering that teen moderator mistake twice in a row. It's my fault voting you in as moderator. Anyway, I will send my formal complain to your boss, SE Inc. – Karipap
 
I'm still in school. Let me gt back to that.
 
3:50 PM
He mad.
 
Lix
Oh wow... a meetup? So now I can downvote ya'll IN PERSON! :P awesome...
 
lmao
 
@BoltClock Pretty sure SEI isn't casperOne's "boss", but it's entirely possible I'm wrong.
 
Huh. I was under the impression that the team was going to be doing more this year (re meetups).
 
Someone drew freehand circles on the screenshots, what more do you want?!
 
3:54 PM
@cdeszaq Nope. We don't work for them. We do work with them, though, if that makes any sense.
 
@BoltClock Makes perfect sense. If anything, you very generous mods work for the communities you serve, and for that, I thank you.
 
@cdeszaq :)
 
Lix
Works for us?? Awesome - @bol - take half a day off ;)
 
@Lix OK, bye.
 
Actually, scratch that. You're right. @RebeccaChernoff, per @PopularDemand, you should totally make food for everyone's meetups.
 
3:56 PM
I move to revoke casperOne's modship. Karipap voted for him, so something must be wrong with him.
 
What's this now? Pops is cooking burgers for the meetups?
 
I'm hoping to get involved with this meetup early, so I can actually participate. 2:00 pm on a Saturday isn't going to work for me.
Last year, it was in a bar. I'm not legally old enough.
Just had an insane idea. A meetup at my uni? Let SE users present about their field of knowledge to relevant and interested students.
 
@Moshe Maybe you should age faster
 
@MichaelMrozek Add a little yeast, perhaps?
 
Oh wow, there are a handful of meetups near me this time.
 
4:00 PM
All you need to do is call @Moshe.age++
 
Or does that only work with wine?
and then there's the sabbath issue. Which goes until sundown. 8:49pm on the 28th.
Sundown.time.hours -= 6 might be helpful too.
 
Hmm... Same day as SharePoint Saturday in the Boston area. It'll be a long, geeky day, I suppose.
 
I would love to, Shog! Have your people call my people.
 
What's this now? Pops' burgers IS PEOPLE?
4
 
Now we know why he appeals to the masses...to lure them in and mash them up into delicious meat patties.
Speaking of which, it's nearly lunch time.
 
4:05 PM
This room frightens me deeply
8
 
Glad to see the activity is back.
 
You know what frightens me deeply? I saw someone the other day with a identicon identical to yours, except that it was purple.
 
Lix
After a quiet weekend...
 
@Lix no, you haven't been here a year ago november.
 
(Well, it wasn't quite the same shape, there were dots in the corners, but it was close.)
 
4:06 PM
Tis almost as active.
 
Lix
@mos - not following you...
 
@mmyers I like to be intimidating.
 
@Shog9 Don't forget that Soylent Green is made mostly of old people. So it's mostly just Ovaltine anyway.
 
Lix
Back soon friends!
 
That's what you think, spammer.
 
4:09 PM
Oddly, I didn't start eating SPAM until I became a moderator.
 
Oh, hey, what's up
 
7
A: What does stackoverflow use to calculate a user's reputation? sql aggregate function or manual method?

Nick CraverSo do we do this in SQL? Well, not really. We query to see if you're at the daily rep cap via SQL and make some decisions based on that, but we don't determine what reputation value you should have from that...it'd be a little crazy. If you want a detailed answer, keep reading. First, credit...

 
@PopularDemand He actually posted...
 
@cdeszaq Personally, I'm campaigning for a per diem, so that would make them my boss, but I don't think that's going to fly.
 
@PopularDemand My mind exploded.
 
4:15 PM
@casperOne I would be in favor of showing a bit more appreciation for mods. (not that my opinion really matters much)
 
@cdeszaq I've changed my world view to accept all of the call outs as a thinly-veiled plea for my acceptance and love. That gets me through the days. =P
 
I hate you, @casperOne. <3
 
@mmyers You warm my heart @mmyers
 
WITH FIRE
 
@mmyers Flame on.
 
4:19 PM
Oh look, it's @TimPost! Quickly, everyone correctly direct your questions at him while he's here.
 
How about if we just ping @Tim repeatedly?
 
Hey @TimPost! I have a question for a moderator that I would normally mistakenly direct towards @TimStone. Do you a minute?
 
@mmyers We save that for those @Michael folk.
 
@jadarnel27 There are six Meta mods in the room right now, so you can pretty much just ask anybody.
 
@mmyers I was just making a bad joke =) People ask Tim Stone questions in here all the time thinking that he's a moderator.
Presumably because they are mistaking him for Tim Post.
 
4:27 PM
@jadarnel27 Been there, done that (Sorry @TimStone)
 
It's all good, I'm happy to be confused for Tim Post any day. Now that @Sathya fellow on the other hand... ;)
 
@TimStone yeah :P
 
Lix
5:22 PM
People are not very helpful in PHP chat :/ I like it much better here...
 
@Lix Depends on what you're after. They are very helpful at closing questions.
 
Lix
@cde - Hehe... yea - people have mentioned that here :P
Gave it my best shot
 
tough break
And, as for that question, don't use PHP for that if you are expecting any sort of real load.
 
Lix
yea I realize that - problem is its not really my decision...
And hey - it works....
I'm not looking at major major traffic.... but yea :P
 
@Lix That seems to be the most common justification for far too many things
 
Lix
5:31 PM
definatly not a good candidate for an SO post :P
@cde - we live - we learn....
 
@jadarnel27 - Any idea how to expand my readerbase?
 
6:00 PM
4
Q: Is there a free, open-source live chat support application that uses PHP and jQuery?

draetonMost of the applications that I'm finding, inncluding LiveHelp and PHP Live Chat! feature terrible, un-commented, non-cross-browser compatible Javascript. I'm looking for chat software that uses a Javascript framework to avoid some persistent and common bugs related to the DOM.

never seen that message before
 
Lix
@awo - "We're looking for long answers..."?
 
@Lix yeah, is it automatic for NAA deleted answers?
 
Neither have I. Odd. @mmyers?
 
Lix
NAA?
 
not an answer
 
6:03 PM
If you check the history, it was added.
 
Lix
ahhh -
 
is that box free-form to moderators then?
 
I'm pretty sure those notices are canned. I've seen them on other sites, but only very rarely on SO. I think they were started on Skeptics.
They fill a role roughly equivalent to similar notices that show up on Wikipedia pages, especially for things like "we want you to cite more sources". The mods on ux.se tend to use them fairly frequently
 
Lix
1
Q: Careers: How to say I'm permanently unavailable?

Steve JobsI have a Careers profile, but I'm extremely happy where I'm at now. I don't want to be contacted with any job offers at all. How can I set my profile to not be contacted with job offers at all? Is deleting my profile my only option? MY PROFILE Your profile is 131 / 210 complete blocked employer...

See the OP's user name
 
6:08 PM
@Lix - Highly suspect, but possibly accurate. (though unlikely)
 
I thought there was a list somewhere of all posts with notices, but maybe not.
 
@Moshe That is a good question. I've never tried to publicize a blog before.
 
Lix
@cde - I think, if that were the case - there would have been a fast comment and that would have been that...
 
Clearly we need yet another FAQ entry.
 
Lix
@cde - sorry for that :P hehe
 
6:12 PM
Yes, I agree that it's a bit offensive on his part, but baring any evidence to the contrary, reasonable doubt lends itself to letting him have his "fun"
 
Lix
I think its the title that really puts it in your face :P
 
Although, I think that user name is in violation of the ToS (which was recently discussed on Meta). Specifically the part about posting things as someone else.
 
Ummm, the new blog misspelled the word "world" in the first sentence... I don't know how people meet up around a word. It must be one very giant word... Perhaps Jeff made it?
 
Word.
 
Lix
! HA - totally missed it...
 
6:27 PM
It's at the end of a line. I don't think I even read it.
 
Lix
"participating around th...." - okay okay... i get it...
 
Woooo Omaha! Too bad I'm a socially awkward and shy programmer who doesn't enjoy events like this :P
 
@balpha Being able to draw freehand circles in code.
 
@animuson What do you think an "event like this" is, exactly?
@TomWijsman There is an HTML5 app for this.
 
@animuson That's strange. I'm a socially awkward and shy programmer who does enjoy events like this.
 
6:31 PM
@PopularDemand: Fatal error: Unexpected T_STRING on line 1; expecting T_COMMENT_ABOUT_BEING_CYBORG
 
What cyborgian behavior did you just display that would precipitate such a comment?
 
I just always expect cyborg comments from you, it's natural!
 
They lose their effect if I just throw them out willy-nilly.
 
Perhaps the fact that I noticed the word "word" was misspelled?
 
"word" is technically a correctly spelled word. It just wasn't the right word in context.
 
Lix
6:35 PM
@pop - "willy-nilly" is extremely un-cyborg like...
 
If anything, this proves that you're not a cyborg.
Or that your human side is still stronger, at any rate.
 
It's misspelled in the context it was used in. :P
 
Does the word "word" look weird to anyone else now?
 
@mmyers: No, but float does. My mind says it should be flote. Ha
 
Lix
@mme - It looks weird when you put the word "word" in front of the "word" word....
 
6:37 PM
HA my reputation is currently 10101
 
Lix
@ani - You're welcome... (first one's free ;)
 
So...my work just started rolling out gigantic, ugly, (mandatory) JPEG e-mail signatures. Why would I want a 605 x 152px image at the bottom of my e-mails?
 
Lix
oh thats just mean....
 
@jadarnel27 Blow it up to massive proportions, something like a 10MB image, host it externally, and change your email signature to an HTML IMG reference to it that sizes it as 605x152. That should make a fun protest.
 
Lix
@dav - now THAT is just MEAN!!
love it
 
6:43 PM
@David Hahahahaha, that is a fantastic idea.
 
@Lix A friend of mine once bombed an old forum many years ago (somewhere around 1999-2001) like that. After much participation, they revoked his ability to post. But he could still change his signature. So he changed it to a reference to a 26MB BMP panoramic shot from a mars rover hosted at NASA. Threads in which he'd previously participated were... broken.
 
Lix
@jad - google.com/search?q=10+MB+picture ;) Get you started
 
@Lix Take them and stitch them together... gets much bigger.
 
Lix
@dav - those NASA pics was the first thing that came to my mind :P
@cde - ME?? I would never do such a thing :P
 
@jadarnel27 Make it a 1000ppi resolution image. Might get you in less trouble. You can use "I was just preparing for super-retina displays"
 
6:47 PM
@Lix Ah, I forgot you could filter image searches by size. Nice =)
 
Lix
@jad - you can search by size, like pixels - but what I searched for was the text only :P All the hits there contain that text somewhere :S
like "Warning: approx. 10MB file size"
@jad - My favorite google search feature is the cooking ingredients ^_^
 
@Lix I...uh...what?
 
Lix
Well - you know how you can search for images, maps, reviews etc....
so there is also recipes. you just type in what you have in your fridge and it outputs a recipe.
 
@Lix That's one of the awesomest things I've seen in a long time.
 
Lix
And its REALLY not new apparently... I only heard of it a few months ago...
 
7:00 PM
@Lix You are just full of arbitrary and useful knowledge.
 
Lix
Fund of useless information is socially accepted :P
 
@jadarnel27 I get that a lot, except they usually pronounce useful somewhat differently.
 
@jadarnel27: I finally updated the music collection on my phone! I can actually listen to Never Say Never whenever I want now :o
 
@mmyers Hahaha, indeed =)
@animuson You, sir, have problems.
 
Learning about pointers in C++ class.
 
7:18 PM
@Moshe Good luck. Pointers are one of those "weed-out" concepts, and you either get them or you don't. Requires a certain brain to be able to wield them with ease.
 
Thanks.
 
7:39 PM
@Jcole - I believe you once asked me to write up on pointers. This isn't an honest attempt, because I'm writing as he speaks, but there you go. I'll have to write my own later.
@cdeszaq Notes are up.
 
@Moshe Looks like a pretty good set of notes for pointer basics.
 
@jadarnel27 I'm appointing you substitute @RebeccaChernoff, to wave a stick menacingly when I don't take care of Data Explorer issues in a timely fashion.
 
7:54 PM
And by the way, this: cout << *ip; is dereferencing
 
@TimStone: Can I be the substitute Jeff Atwood? I'll take good care of the giant letters!
 
@Moshe or, to be more wordy about it, you are saying "I have a pointer (ip), but I want you to get me the value of whatever ip points to instead of ip's value (like so: *ip)
 
@animuson These days, I think Jeff Atwood is the substitute Jeff Atwood.
 
@PopularDemand: Perhaps Jeff Alt wood?
 
7:57 PM
@Moshe In general, when working with pointer arithmetic, pictures consisting of boxes with arrows are your best friend (much like when working with complex references in languages that hide pointers, like Java)
 
@TimStone I'm not sure I could fill those shoes =P I noticed that bug when was researching my feature-request, but forgot to mention it haha.
 
I have to get to the pharmacy! scurries off
 
@jadarnel27 Yeah, unfortunately I've known about that for some time and got distracted by other stuff, gah. shames
@animuson I only go so far as to bring up encoding bugs, never pluralisation! ;)
 
@TimStone Hey, we all get busy =)
In order to be as helpful as possible, I'm going to mercilessly criticize everything you do (or don't do). With great violence, and furious anger.
Constructively.
 
I'm notoriously forgetful, likely because I'm a bit (for definitions of "a bit" meaning "a lot") disorganised.
So just have to keep reminding me ;)
 
8:06 PM
That works too, I suppose =P
I just finished setting up and using Git for the first time. That...is exciting stuff right there.
 
@jadarnel27 Had you used a DVCS prior to Git?
 
@cdeszaq Yeah, I used subversion in college. The last place I worked used Visual Source Safe (vomit). This current place, I am the only dev, so I get to pick =)
 
@jadarnel27 SVN isn't really DVCS, though it is my favorite [non-D]VCS.
 
@jadarnel27 I personally prefer Mercurial, but Git is pretty much the same. Not having a VCS is better than source safe, and svn has it's issue with merges, etc., so I'd say you're moving up in the world. Well done!
 
@David Yeah, I really like SVN as well, just thought I'd try something new.
 
8:14 PM
@David Yup, it's just about the only [non-D]VCS that's worth using. But Hg and Git are both better than SVN, and can be essentially interchanged from a workflow standpoint. (ie. dvcs's are simply more flexible)
 
@cdeszaq Ha, thanks! I agree, Visual Source Safe is disgusting. I thought about trying the new Microsoft solution, but that doesn't make me feel like a hacker (while Git does).
 
@cdeszaq Agreed. They both have their pros and cons, and usually I prefer Git. Though I like the idea of going with Mercurial in a work environment with the possibility of moving to Kiln someday (another product I've yet to have an opportunity to really try out).
 
@jadarnel27 You are better off using OSS solutions than MSFT solutions, in my experience. Only in rare circumstances is the MSFT solution the better answer.
 
I suppose Microsoft's standard is TFS these days. It's a one-stop-shop for everything, but it's not best-of-breed in anything.
Kind of like WalMart.
 
@David Kiln is fantastic (and the reason I prefer Hg), but they are going to be supporting git shortly, so either option will work just fine.
 
8:17 PM
@cdeszaq I think that's good advice. I just got a new laptop. I was very close to buying Office, but have been on the fence. Thinking about making the jump to OO.
 
TFS is certainly worth a real look if you want to use all of its other features. If all you want is source control, Git/Mercurial are leaps and bounds better.
 
@jadarnel27 For "general population" tools, msft is fine and works pretty well, but their developer tools just don't have the flexibility for my taste and make me feel boxed in (most of the time)
 
If you want some stuff beyond source control, there are still other best-of-breed options that integrate easily. I personally like using TeamCity (free edition) for a CI/build server, Ruby Rake scripts for builds, and pretty much any extensible ticket tracking system for work tracking. (FogBugz?)
 
@David What else does TFS do besides versioning? I think it does some build management and issue tracking, and perhaps a bit of project planing, but are there other elements I'm missing?
 
@cdeszaq Most of the benefit is the all-integrated work tracking. You can create custom templates for various work items (though some decent ones are provided out of the box), manage most of the agile process within it, expose through a built-in portal various progress and reports to other business members, etc.
 
8:20 PM
@David That is more the route I tend to prefer. I usually opt for Jenkins and Gradle / maven, + fogbugz, but same idea: Use the tool you find best for the job.
 
The built-in portal functionality is very useful if you actually use it. I have people for that, so I can't speak to it myself :)
 
@David Sounds very much like the full JIRA suite if you get all the pieces
 
@cdeszaq Similar, yes.
One feature I do particularly like about TFS (though I imaging some tweaking can add it to other systems as well) is "gated check-ins." When you perform a check-in, the server can be set to force a run of the automated tests. If any of them fail, the check-in is disallowed. (Never shows up in the source history on the server, etc. The developer is forced to "fix it" before checking in.)
 
@David Yes, that sort of workflow is fairly easy to set up using a dvcs that supports easy branching/merging like git or hg and a CI server. It isn't particularly "works out of the box", but it's doable.
 
Obligatory:
 
8:26 PM
But personally, I'd rather see the bad code get checked in, and then shortly there after see a bug-fix get checked in as well. Much rather that than to not be tracking all the changes or have much larger checkins
 
TFS leads to branching; Branching leads to merging; Merging... leads to _suffering_ #tekpubtfstitlesuggestion
(best done with a Yoda impersonation)
 
Yes, merging can be painful, which is why git and Hg are architected the way they are...to make merging easy.
 
@David Hahah, nice
 
@jadarnel27 There were a lot of great suggestions made to that hash tag that day. My personal favorite was "TFS: Making Your Files Read-Only Since 2005"
 
(Are you guys done? 'cause I want to bookmark that conversation when you are.)
 
8:34 PM
@PopularDemand I'm done, mostly because I'm done with work and will be going home now :)
 
@PopularDemand I don't think there's much more to say ;-)
 
If anyone else cares: Version Control discussion (this is mostly to help myself remember the link later)
@David Have a good night.
 
@PopularDemand Out of curiosity, was there something particularly interesting you found with that convo?
 
@jadarnel27 Nice. I just joined Github myself... intimidating system for a total newbie.
@cdeszaq Nothing specific. I haven't had much experience with different VCSes, so I just wanted to absorb some experience from experts.
@mootinator Is it worth more than the price I'm paying?
 
8:39 PM
@PopularDemand It really, really is. And the tutorials I started with were hard to follow (or out of date). I have a repository set up on my local PC for now. Haven't tried to use GitHub.
 
@PopularDemand Heh, I wouldn't call myself an expert by any means (can't speak for any others to that point either), but I have done a fair bit of research into VCSs and I'm always more than happy to share what I know with anyone who will listen
 
@PopularDemand I have a copy, it's not terrible.
 
Ooooooo, tomorrow will be my 100th consecutive day on SO and MSO ^_^
 
@animuson Do a virus scan and make sure you're not scheduled to reboot any time soon!
@TimStone Ah, glowing words of praise from Tim Stone.
 
@PopularDemand Or, set up a scripted browser to "ping" the site
 
8:46 PM
I'm already worried. Do I ask them to send the book to Conneticut, Massachusets or Virgina?
 
@PopularDemand I haven't actually read more than the intro. Shhhhhh.
 
@PopularDemand There it is =)
I have 17k airline miles. I don't think I can do anything with that.
 
Apparently, this justifies undoing Yi Jiang's gracious help in adding non-required tags and removing a useless "Regards!"
 
So it begins.
 
@PopularDemand Ahahaha
 
8:57 PM
Maybe people are going to start using that as an excuse to undo edits more frequently now. That would be exciting, right?
 
@jadarnel27 That would be simply FANTASTIC.
 
Haha, Arjan took care of business.
> "Rollback to Revision 3 - Reverted bogus edit; team is taking care of it: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/126501/…;
 
In next week's "ripped from the headlines" CSI: a middle-aged software developer was found dead last night with a sizable hole in his torso. No murder weapon was present at the scene, but a chip from a unicorn's horn was embedded in the wound.
 
@PopularDemand And a tuft of rainbow-colored animal fur was found on a nearby tree.
 
"I can tell... before we solve this case, we're going to meet some sunglasses colorful characters."
4
Nothing, really? Screw you guys, that was gold.
 
9:08 PM
@PopularDemand - I did what I could with it ;)
 
@PopularDemand All that sparkles is not gold.
 
@PopularDemand Kevin was a colorful character.
 
 
3 hours later…
11:51 PM
All that is gold does not sparkle.
 
00:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

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