Tavern on the Meta

5:00 AM

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Anonymous

10:10 AM

The problem with using chat for serious discussion is that there's so much stuff to read.

Anonymous

I'm trying to get the picture of this MSO/C++ dispute that has been escalating ridiculously. If we did things our way ;) everything would be relatively organized in a couple of questions, rather than scattered throughout thousands of messages over several days.

Anonymous

(that was a joke; not meant to be an accurate assessment of blame)

Anonymous

It's like the C++ chat room has grown into a second relatively-trafficked meta-discussion area, then members of the two groups get political feelings and we have the kind of unhealthy drama that a site "without social elements" should be resistant too.

Anonymous

10:25 AM

Community design, so fascinating to think about. The pros and cons of having partially-separated sub-communities...

Anonymous

Politics bad. Disrupting mob conservatism ("consensus") sometimes good.

Anonymous

*wanders off in search of a-bird-singing-in-the-dawn interested in discussing community dynamics*

Anonymous

10:45 AM

(Not actually gone. Continuing to read drama. [The following comment is intended to be apolitical.] It seems to have pissed off many people beyond the point of behaving constructively anymore, so only slow progress is made, by the cool heads.)

Anonymous

"The cool heads", tee hee hee.

Anonymous

in Lounge<C++> on Stack Overflow Chat, yesterday, by jalf

anyway, nice to have this little talk. It's amazing how much easier it is to discuss calmly when you're not suddenly assaulted by a half-dozen angry moderators

Anonymous

in Lounge<C++> on Stack Overflow Chat, yesterday, by jalf

not to call out any individuals, but it was pretty hard not to feel under siege before

Anonymous

and all may yet be well.

Anonymous

in Lounge<C++> on Stack Overflow Chat, yesterday, by jalf

@Shog9 Sure, a lot of other trends can change. Such as "what should be deleted", or "how should I moderate". What isn't going to change is the trend that those who want power and influence become moderators, and those who merely want to do SO stuff don't

Anonymous

10:59 AM

If at least these discussions took place in a room where meta-discussion was on-topic we'd be able to keep track of important points with stars. Not related to c++!

Anonymous

My primary take-away point from reading the discussion has been this: drama would be overwhelmingly reduced if question delisting were implemented. >_>

Anonymous

Honestly closing this window now; every few minutes I have to fight a strong impulse to add more unconstructive fuel of my own.

awoodland

12:34 PM

does "possible vanadalism" auto-trigger a suspension?

casperOne

@awoodland Well, if the questions are deleted by a mod or users, then he could be question banned.

But I assume that you are referring to the guy recently who was saying "fuck you" or whatever that you've edited out of his recent posts?

awoodland

@casperOne that's the one - I only noticed the account was suspended after I wrote that flag text

casperOne

I wanted to come in and say thank you for that.

The suspension was not automatic, I'll say that.

@awoodland I also wanted to offer up a general thanks to you, you flag very consistently and very well, and I'll say that you make my life easier as a mod personally, so thank you.

Yi Jiang's Proble_

1:10 PM

@JeremyBanksʬʬʬ So what is happening?

Is it over the question deletion audit?

awoodland

@JeremyBanksʬʬʬ my take on it is that a community has grown up around the Q&A format but that there's value and desire for tools that solve other related problems and link well against SO accounts

(I did actually think about doing a media wiki login plugin that can authenticate against SO accounts with enough repuation)

@YiJiangsProble_ that started this round of discussions

Tim Stone

@YiJiangsProble_ I knew immediately to stay faaaaaaar away from that question and any subsequent discussions. :P

Yi Jiang's Proble_

@TimStone I'm surprised there wasn't more dissent when they proposed to delete some of the most heavily upvoted questions on SO

Tim Stone

Aye

Yi Jiang's Proble_

1:34 PM

I started reading the C++ room thread from the top (I presume it started when Robert joined the room and linked the question audit thread)

Maybe Robert had phrased it wrongly (eg. "push back against moderators"), but the reaction seems incredibly negative not only to the question but also to the entire Meta system

awoodland

I have never seen that many mods in one chatroom other than (possibly) the town hall election chats

Yi Jiang's Proble_

I see Robert, Shog, Grace and Myers in the transcript

awoodland

there were several others lurking at various points

anna, casperone, bill at least

Yi Jiang's Proble_

in Lounge<C++> on Stack Overflow Chat, yesterday, by jalf

@RobertHarvey If SO needs us to push back against the moderators in order for useful content to survive, then it is already broken beyond repair. If you want to do anything about this, then you'll have to take it to those higher in the food chain. I'll happily provide feedback if anyone cares to listen, but reining in the absurd meta tyranny that SO has become is just not my battle to fight.

This one (3 stars) made me scratch my head

The first part anyway. I mean, it's not like the question deletion audit only has moderator's voices

It's got 29+ upvotes, and if you don't push back, then we'd have to take that as the community's decision and delete the question

Moshe

2:38 PM

Wait, what's happening in the C++ room?

Yi Jiang's Proble_

in Lounge<C++> on Stack Overflow Chat, yesterday, by Robert Harvey

Hey, fellas.

Start from this message and read

Moshe

Ok, will do.