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8:00 PM
win for limits ;p
@MarcGravell I hate the new star limit!
that is like, day 1 stuff
@MarcGravell Isn't it lowered now?
I never ued to hit it before about a week ago
not AFAIK. And it is per room, btw
And, clearly neither the converstaion in this room nor the starred posts by this group have changed in nature ;-)
@MarcGravell OMG it is? whew
I wouldn't know, recently I haven't been in any other rooms
8:01 PM
I nominate starring posts that are typed to quickly to care for proper spelling.
VotesMaxStarsPerUserRoomDay = 20
@MarcGravell Really? Just 20?
@MarcGravell I want to star this but... I can't seem to! Can you fix this for me?
Man I don't star as much as I thought I did.
@MarcGravell Ah HA! I swear it used to be 30!
8:02 PM
if that seems off we can probably tweak it. The important thing is that it isn't 50000
checking revisions...
Anyone know of a font called "Cabo"? Where can I get a free alternative?
I just need the lowercase "y" and the uppercase "O".
@MarcGravell If the star limit were 50,000... all I can say is oy
and yet I think, 20? that's a bunch!
@MarcGravell I'd like to point out that I've never hit said limit. Not sure what's up with everyone else. :P
dates back at least to 2010-08-09 09:08:43
8:05 PM
I guess my behavior has changed then...
20 is plenty...
I swear I never reached it (or maybe only a few times) before last week
The solution is obviously two taverns.
One for daytime, one for nighttime GMT
or more sockpuppets
@Pekka A tale of two taverns...
8:05 PM
Effectively doubles everyone's star allowance.
@Fosco or that
@Fosco I think this is the perfect idea!
In some much earlier code, there was VotesMaxDailyCount = 20 - we later made this per room
Yeah. A starring sock puppet is a good idea
@MarcGravell make it per hour that might be reasonable
@Pekka His gravatar could be a starred & flagged post! Oh, wait...
Off to earn 20 rep on Meta
8:07 PM
(oh dear, I've just thought of a terrible, invasive and intrusive way of hacking around this limit)
@MarcGravell Starring from within the transcript? Doesn't work, I've already tried
@MarcGravell I already pasted VotesMaxStarsPerUserRoomDay = 50 into the javascript console, it didn't work :-(
@MarcGravell Let me guess..... make a room, star posts there, and migrate them here ?
@Pekka no - transfer the message to another room, star it there, and transfer it back
@MarcGravell Only room owners / mods could do that right?
8:08 PM
@Marc interesting!
gives cookie to @Fosco
But too cumbersome for everyday use
@Josh Maybe you forget who owns this room.
plus, we'd get very grumpy if we see that
@Pekka So is starring every oy message, doesn't stop people here from doing it every day ;-)
@TimStone Oh. Right. LOL
8:09 PM
@Josh true
@TimStone owned, you mean?
(if nothing else, it made him look)
Hahah :P
8:09 PM
@MarcGravell yes, I'll admit, I looked
I was hoping that maybe the most frequent user of this room might get to be the new owner
seriously, though - don't do that. I will write code for that scenario if I need to...
I'd kick a few shins myself, heh. But I'm just bitter like that. ;)
I have Visual Studio, and I'm not afraid to use it!
8:11 PM
maybe as a rule, migration causes loss of stars/pins.
@MarcGravell You have my word that I will not
and I tend to bear a grudge against people who make me work by being evil. Requests to improve things are fine though.
Whoa! 40 messages.
Well, there is only one person in this room who could do it, and he's not present, so...
@balpha Besides @MarcGravell it's things like this I want to star but can't
8:12 PM
there you go
@TimStone but not the undeletable kind.
I guess I need to re-think my criteria of what's funny... or maybe change the criteria for stars :-)
@Moshe I think giving Fosco undeletable cookies would be unkind to his digestive system, yes.
@Josh - Like I said, I don't star oy anymore.
I've changed.
@Moshe Neither do I, it was my new year's resolution
8:13 PM
@Josh I can stop saying witty and amusing things, if it helps.
...wait for it... <- means an image is on the way.
I do star whatever I think is funny, and there's far more than 20 funny remarks made in here daily
@Josh simple solution: adjust your humor
@TimStone I think I'm just going to start replying to witty and amusing things with an image of a star...
8:14 PM
points at it <-- means that it's been uploaded.
That too way too long to make in photoshop
@balpha actually probably the best solution would be to chat less! But... there seems to be a problem implementing that one...
@Josh You mean:
The strangest thing just happened. A jQuery effect worked in IE, but not in Chrome for Windows.
Yes, thanks XD
8:16 PM
@Josh that's a baby/bathwater solution, though
@balpha damn you for making chat so good!
You've created addicts
Anyone care to test my jQueryness?
jQuery doesn't need to be tested. jQuery tests you.
@Josh Ah, that works too. Also less effort on my part.
click on the image in the top-left.
Tell me what happens
8:17 PM
@Fosco Did you mean, OY DAWG?
@Moshe awesome... I didn't think of that.
@Fosco Thank you.
Can anyone tell me if this is good UI?
8:20 PM
:450319 Erm. no. Oh, hah!
fires up The Gimp
Your lack of transparent background saddens me.
fires josh for using Gimp instead of Photoshop
I'm not understanding something.
48 secs ago, by Josh
fires up The Gimp
@Moshe No photoshop for linux!
As a developer, what's so wonderful about open source?
@Josh fair point.
8:21 PM
@Moshe I flagged this as offensive.
@Josh Let me explain.
I write software, spending hours and hours.
Why should I give it away for free?
I understand that software companies do take advantage of the consumer, but why free?
I can understand 99¢ apps.
But I need to EAT.
I'm not going to eat my open source code.
Anyone care to explain what the advantage is for the developer?
I'm not against Open Source, I just don't understand it.
@Moshe: You can charge for open source
plenty of people make money off it
@ircmaxell - But how is that sensible? I can charge you for my program when you can take the code and compile it yourself?
@Moshe A lot of reasons. I write software, spending hours and hours. Some is free. Some is not
Open Source is about Free as in Freedom, not Free as in Money
8:25 PM
Part of my job involves working on an open source project, heh.
The free software can drive attention to the software that's not free
Tim: Googler?
I hear.
Or, you can give the software away for free but charge for support
8:25 PM
@Josh True also.
give it away for free - charge to repair the mess that it leaves #evil #dontdothis
...wait for it...
@MarcGravell heh. Would have starred if not for ^^^^^^^^^^.
Also @Moshe, a lot of open source is done as a hobby for fun
@Josh some people call that "open core" and frown upon it
I get paid to write code for my company. SOXMPP bridge, I wrote for fun
8:26 PM
@Moshe paid by my company
@balpha Why the frown? Do they not know the proper direction of a smiley?
AM I part owner of my company? Yes. Do I write the checks? No :-)
@Josh Ah.
Makes more sense now.
@balpha What I mean is, for example, if my company creates an open source product, say, some XMPP chat system, then it could attract attention to my company's other, closed source products like our eCommerce system.
8:28 PM
ah, okay
that's not open core
So, in addition to your for-profit products you create additional not-for-profit code to give back to the community
@balpha Right. More like donating to a charity, and as a side effect of doing good, you get publicity.
except, different :-)
@balpha Open core is more like SugarCRM. (Right?)
@balpha - What's open core?
Q: What is "Open Core" software?

MosheWhat does the term "Open Core" software mean?

@Moshe there are religious wars about the exact definition, but the idea is that you make the core system open source (hence the name), and you charge for plugins, additional functionality etc.
8:31 PM
@Moshe If I understand correctly, it's like, "here, this core of my software is open source. But for all these extra features, pay me"
Ah, I see.
Go run to Programmers.SE and get some rep!
is reminded of the alleged voting ring ... nah, couldn't be...
Wait, so that reminds me of Mac OS X.
It's based on FreeBSD, but everything else is pricey.
Is that correct?
What's the big argument against open core, anyway?
@Moshe Not exactly... I suppose you could say so because there was Darwin Open SOurce...
But OS X is proprietary, there's no open source version of it
Think of it this way: If the core of OS X were open but you had to pay for iTunes, iPhoto, Mail, Safari, Smart Finder Folders, AppleScript, Printing Support, SAMBA sharing, etc... That would be closer to Open Core (IMO)
That makes sense.
Q: IE shadow rendering bug and jQuery

MosheI'm using jQuery to "fade in" a certain part of my site. In IE8 the box fades in, but during the fade, the shadow is solid black. After the fade, the image is rendered normally. Is this a known issue? How can I fix it?

^^^ jQuery! ^^^
@Josh Yeah, but I don't necessarily get it.
8:37 PM
@TimStone nor do I
Just the messenger :-)
Ah :P
I don't necessarily agree, but here's what I think could be part of the problem:
> It's a bait-and-switch, wrapping the same old lock-in in the flag of open source and hoping you won't notice.
Which of course doesn't make any sense, heh.
That's true whenever you use any software, period.
@TimStone - Why?
I think it does.
If you stop using it, you very rarely can transition to something new just like that.
8:39 PM
@TimStone agreed
@TimStone Please explain, I don't get that last statement.
They're saying that you're being locked into a particular product.
@Moshe I have all my data in MySQL. I can't just poof switch to PostgreSQL. This had nothing to do with the license of MySQL...
But I can't imagine any corporation on the planet switching any sort of system they use, even one they made themselves, over to something new overnight.
@TimStone Who's they?
8:40 PM
@Moshe Critics of Open Core
The person who wrote the sentence you quoted.
@Josh Yes and no, because if they were both were open source, they'd be more compatible with each other and then the transition would be smoother.
@TimStone Ah, I understand now.
In a sense you are being locked into a product, but they are no better.
You are locked into something if you've paid for it by virtue of the fact that you'll have wasted money otherwise.
You always pay money though.
@Moshe They are both open source :-)
If you want to implement an open source project in-house, you have to pay your own developers.
8:43 PM
@TimStone True, but I am a developer.
Actually they're both open core
(right @TimStone?)
Alright, enough chatting. It's time to work on jQuery induced bugs.
@Josh Hm, I think that they're both open source.
@TimStone OK. I wasn't sure if MySQL "Enterprise" was really just support or if it was an improved product as well
I know that there are companies that provide enterprise level support for both, but I'm not sure what they offer on top of the software itself.
@Josh Oh right...I might be wrong.
I think there are some enterprise-specific features.
8:45 PM
IDK, we use the comunity edition :-)
I see my question is currently considered the hottest on SE
Q: What's the difference between $(stuff) and `stuff`?

TshepangRunning top -p $(pidof init) and top -p `pidof init` gives the same output. Are these two ways of doing one thing, or are there differences?

and to think I was only going to ask it as comment here
Q: How to select specific processes with 'top'?

TshepangIn case of one program having multiple instances, running pidof program gives: `1 2 3` top -p accepts comma-delimited arguments: 1, 2, 3. This means that top -p `pidof program` won't work: top: unknown argument '1' usage: top -hv | -bcisSH -d delay -n iterations [-u user | -U user] -p p...

@Tshepang +1. I like your unix.SE questions :-)
@Josh thanks, that's the 1st such complement i've received yet
Hey @Zypher, how are you?
8:52 PM
oh just fine @Josh getting the motivation up to turn on the routing equipment in my office
That is an excellent question... great answer by Wag, too...
it's loud
Anyone know about this:
The routers are humming to you @Zypher
8:53 PM
they are ... i need the poowwaaah
@Fosco thanks
@Moshe ? It allows PNG alpha transparency to be rendered in older IEs.
@TimStone UGGGGGGGG We had to use this a lot
Bah. I go to all this trouble to create a star image to use since I'm out of stars, and people stop saying things worthy of being starred! Just my luck.

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