Tavern on the Meta

Marc Gravell

20:00

win for limits ;p

Josh

@MarcGravell I hate the new star limit!

Marc Gravell

new?

that is like, day 1 stuff

Josh

@MarcGravell Isn't it lowered now?

I never ued to hit it before about a week ago

Marc Gravell

not AFAIK. And it is per room, btw

Josh

And, clearly neither the converstaion in this room nor the starred posts by this group have changed in nature ;-)

@MarcGravell OMG it is? whew

I wouldn't know, recently I haven't been in any other rooms

Moshe

20:01

I nominate starring posts that are typed to quickly to care for proper spelling.

Marc Gravell

VotesMaxStarsPerUserRoomDay = 20

radp

@MarcGravell Really? Just 20?

Josh

@MarcGravell I want to star this but... I can't seem to! Can you fix this for me?

radp

Man I don't star as much as I thought I did.

Josh

@MarcGravell Ah HA! I swear it used to be 30!

Marc Gravell

20:02

if that seems off we can probably tweak it. The important thing is that it isn't 50000

checking revisions...

Moshe

Anyone know of a font called "Cabo"? Where can I get a free alternative?

I just need the lowercase "y" and the uppercase "O".

Josh

@MarcGravell If the star limit were 50,000... all I can say is oy

Rebecca Chernoff

and yet I think, 20? that's a bunch!

Tim Stone

@MarcGravell I'd like to point out that I've never hit said limit. Not sure what's up with everyone else. :P

Marc Gravell

dates back at least to 2010-08-09 09:08:43

Josh

20:05

I guess my behavior has changed then...

Fosco

20 is plenty...

Josh

I swear I never reached it (or maybe only a few times) before last week

Pekka

The solution is obviously two taverns.

One for daytime, one for nighttime GMT

Fosco

or more sockpuppets

Josh

@Pekka A tale of two taverns...

Pekka

20:05

Effectively doubles everyone's star allowance.

@Fosco or that

Josh

@Fosco I think this is the perfect idea!

Marc Gravell

In some much earlier code, there was VotesMaxDailyCount = 20 - we later made this per room

Pekka

Yeah. A starring sock puppet is a good idea

@MarcGravell make it per hour that might be reasonable

Josh

@Pekka His gravatar could be a starred & flagged post! Oh, wait...

Pekka

Off to earn 20 rep on Meta

Marc Gravell

20:07

(oh dear, I've just thought of a terrible, invasive and intrusive way of hacking around this limit)

Pekka

@MarcGravell Starring from within the transcript? Doesn't work, I've already tried

Josh

@MarcGravell I already pasted VotesMaxStarsPerUserRoomDay = 50 into the javascript console, it didn't work :-(

Fosco

@MarcGravell Let me guess..... make a room, star posts there, and migrate them here ?

Marc Gravell

@Pekka no - transfer the message to another room, star it there, and transfer it back

Josh

@MarcGravell Only room owners / mods could do that right?

Pekka

20:08

@Marc interesting!

Tim Stone

gives cookie to @Fosco

3

Pekka

But too cumbersome for everyday use

Tim Stone

@Josh Maybe you forget who owns this room.

Marc Gravell

plus, we'd get very grumpy if we see that

Josh

@Pekka So is starring every oy message, doesn't stop people here from doing it every day ;-)

@TimStone Oh. Right. LOL

Pekka

20:09

@Josh true

Marc Gravell

@TimStone owned, you mean?

Josh

HAHAHAHA

Marc Gravell

(if nothing else, it made him look)

Pekka

Hahaha

Tim Stone

Hahah :P

Josh

20:09

@MarcGravell yes, I'll admit, I looked

Fosco

lol

Josh

I was hoping that maybe the most frequent user of this room might get to be the new owner

Marc Gravell

seriously, though - don't do that. I will write code for that scenario if I need to...

Tim Stone

I'd kick a few shins myself, heh. But I'm just bitter like that. ;)

balpha

I have Visual Studio, and I'm not afraid to use it!

Fosco

20:11

maybe as a rule, migration causes loss of stars/pins.

Josh

@MarcGravell You have my word that I will not

Marc Gravell

and I tend to bear a grudge against people who make me work by being evil. Requests to improve things are fine though.

Moshe

Whoa! 40 messages.

Pekka

Well, there is only one person in this room who could do it, and he's not present, so...

Josh

@balpha Besides @MarcGravell it's things like this I want to star but can't

Marc Gravell

20:12

there you go

Moshe

@TimStone but not the undeletable kind.

Josh

I guess I need to re-think my criteria of what's funny... or maybe change the criteria for stars :-)

Tim Stone

@Moshe I think giving Fosco undeletable cookies would be unkind to his digestive system, yes.

Moshe

@Josh - Like I said, I don't star oy anymore.

I've changed.

Josh

@Moshe Neither do I, it was my new year's resolution

Tim Stone

20:13

@Josh I can stop saying witty and amusing things, if it helps.

Moshe

...wait for it... <- means an image is on the way.

Josh

I do star whatever I think is funny, and there's far more than 20 funny remarks made in here daily

balpha

@Josh simple solution: adjust your humor

3

Moshe

4

Josh

@TimStone I think I'm just going to start replying to witty and amusing things with an image of a star...

Moshe

20:14

points at it <-- means that it's been uploaded.

Rebecca Chernoff

...

Moshe

That too way too long to make in photoshop

Josh

@balpha actually probably the best solution would be to chat less! But... there seems to be a problem implementing that one...

status-declined

Moshe

@Josh You mean:

status-bydesign

The strangest thing just happened. A jQuery effect worked in IE, but not in Chrome for Windows.

Josh

Yes, thanks XD

balpha

20:16

@Josh that's a baby/bathwater solution, though

Josh

@balpha damn you for making chat so good!

You've created addicts

Moshe

Anyone care to test my jQueryness?

Bitachon.org/new

balpha

jQuery doesn't need to be tested. jQuery tests you.

Tim Stone

@Josh Ah, that works too. Also less effort on my part.

Moshe

click on the image in the top-left.

Tell me what happens

Fosco

20:17

Moshe

@Fosco Did you mean, OY DAWG?

ircmaxell

Ha

Fosco

@Moshe awesome... I didn't think of that.

Moshe

Heh.

@Fosco Thank you.

Can anyone tell me if this is good UI?

Josh

BAH!

Moshe

20:20

:450319 Erm. no. Oh, hah!

Josh

fires up The Gimp

Tim Stone

Your lack of transparent background saddens me.

Moshe

fires josh for using Gimp instead of Photoshop

I'm not understanding something.

Josh

48 secs ago, by Josh

fires up The Gimp

@Moshe No photoshop for linux!

Moshe

As a developer, what's so wonderful about open source?

@Josh fair point.

Josh

20:21

@Moshe I flagged this as offensive.

Moshe

@Josh Let me explain.

I write software, spending hours and hours.

Why should I give it away for free?

I understand that software companies do take advantage of the consumer, but why free?

I can understand 99¢ apps.

But I need to EAT.

I'm not going to eat my open source code.

Anyone care to explain what the advantage is for the developer?

I'm not against Open Source, I just don't understand it.

ircmaxell

@Moshe: You can charge for open source

plenty of people make money off it

Moshe

@ircmaxell - But how is that sensible? I can charge you for my program when you can take the code and compile it yourself?

Josh

@Moshe A lot of reasons. I write software, spending hours and hours. Some is free. Some is not

ircmaxell

Open Source is about Free as in Freedom, not Free as in Money

Tim Stone

20:25

Part of my job involves working on an open source project, heh.

Josh

The free software can drive attention to the software that's not free

ircmaxell

Tim: Googler?

Moshe

I hear.

Josh

Or, you can give the software away for free but charge for support

Tim Stone

Nah.

Moshe

20:25

@Josh True also.

Marc Gravell

give it away for free - charge to repair the mess that it leaves #evil #dontdothis

Moshe

...wait for it...

@MarcGravell heh. Would have starred if not for ^^^^^^^^^^.

Josh

Also @Moshe, a lot of open source is done as a hobby for fun

balpha

@Josh some people call that "open core" and frown upon it

Josh

I get paid to write code for my company. SOXMPP bridge, I wrote for fun

Moshe

20:26

(redacted)

Josh

@Moshe paid by my company

Moshe

@balpha Why the frown? Do they not know the proper direction of a smiley?

Josh

AM I part owner of my company? Yes. Do I write the checks? No :-)

Moshe

@Josh Ah.

Thanks.

Makes more sense now.

Josh

@balpha What I mean is, for example, if my company creates an open source product, say, some XMPP chat system, then it could attract attention to my company's other, closed source products like our eCommerce system.

balpha

20:28

ah, okay

that's not open core

Josh

So, in addition to your for-profit products you create additional not-for-profit code to give back to the community

@balpha Right. More like donating to a charity, and as a side effect of doing good, you get publicity.

except, different :-)

@balpha Open core is more like SugarCRM. (Right?)

Moshe

@balpha - What's open core?

Josh

sugarcrm.com/crm

Or Zimbra

Moshe

0

Q: What is "Open Core" software?

What does the term "Open Core" software mean?

open-source

balpha

@Moshe there are religious wars about the exact definition, but the idea is that you make the core system open source (hence the name), and you charge for plugins, additional functionality etc.

Josh

20:31

@Moshe If I understand correctly, it's like, "here, this core of my software is open source. But for all these extra features, pay me"

Moshe

Ah, I see.

Go run to Programmers.SE and get some rep!

is reminded of the alleged voting ring ... nah, couldn't be...

Wait, so that reminds me of Mac OS X.

It's based on FreeBSD, but everything else is pricey.

Is that correct?

Tim Stone

What's the big argument against open core, anyway?

Josh

@TimStone blogs.computerworlduk.com/simon-says/2010/06/…

@Moshe Not exactly... I suppose you could say so because there was Darwin Open SOurce...

But OS X is proprietary, there's no open source version of it

Think of it this way: If the core of OS X were open but you had to pay for iTunes, iPhoto, Mail, Safari, Smart Finder Folders, AppleScript, Printing Support, SAMBA sharing, etc... That would be closer to Open Core (IMO)

Moshe

ok

That makes sense.

0

Q: IE shadow rendering bug and jQuery

I'm using jQuery to "fade in" a certain part of my site. In IE8 the box fades in, but during the fade, the shadow is solid black. After the fade, the image is rendered normally. Is this a known issue? How can I fix it?

jquery web png transparency

^^^ jQuery! ^^^

Tim Stone

@Josh Yeah, but I don't necessarily get it.

Josh

20:37

@TimStone nor do I

Just the messenger :-)

Tim Stone

Ah :P

Moshe

I don't necessarily agree, but here's what I think could be part of the problem:

> It's a bait-and-switch, wrapping the same old lock-in in the flag of open source and hoping you won't notice.

Tim Stone

Which of course doesn't make any sense, heh.

That's true whenever you use any software, period.

Moshe

@TimStone - Why?

I think it does.

Tim Stone

If you stop using it, you very rarely can transition to something new just like that.

Josh

20:39

@TimStone agreed

Moshe

@TimStone Please explain, I don't get that last statement.

Tim Stone

They're saying that you're being locked into a particular product.

Josh

@Moshe I have all my data in MySQL. I can't just poof switch to PostgreSQL. This had nothing to do with the license of MySQL...

Tim Stone

But I can't imagine any corporation on the planet switching any sort of system they use, even one they made themselves, over to something new overnight.

Moshe

@TimStone Who's they?

Josh

20:40

@Moshe Critics of Open Core

Tim Stone

The person who wrote the sentence you quoted.

Moshe

@Josh Yes and no, because if they were both were open source, they'd be more compatible with each other and then the transition would be smoother.

@TimStone Ah, I understand now.

In a sense you are being locked into a product, but they are no better.

You are locked into something if you've paid for it by virtue of the fact that you'll have wasted money otherwise.

Tim Stone

You always pay money though.

Josh

@Moshe They are both open source :-)

Tim Stone

If you want to implement an open source project in-house, you have to pay your own developers.

Moshe

20:43

@TimStone True, but I am a developer.

Josh

Actually they're both open core

(right @TimStone?)

Moshe

Alright, enough chatting. It's time to work on jQuery induced bugs.

Tim Stone

@Josh Hm, I think that they're both open source.

Josh

@TimStone OK. I wasn't sure if MySQL "Enterprise" was really just support or if it was an improved product as well

Tim Stone

I know that there are companies that provide enterprise level support for both, but I'm not sure what they offer on top of the software itself.

@Josh Oh right...I might be wrong.

I think there are some enterprise-specific features.

Josh

20:45

IDK, we use the comunity edition :-)

Moshe

theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/80867/…

Tshepang

I see my question is currently considered the hottest on SE

stackexchange.com/questions/custom

18

Q: What's the difference between $(stuff) and `stuff`?

Running top -p $(pidof init) and top -p `pidof init` gives the same output. Are these two ways of doing one thing, or are there differences?

command-line shell

and to think I was only going to ask it as comment here

1

Q: How to select specific processes with 'top'?

In case of one program having multiple instances, running pidof program gives: `1 2 3` top -p accepts comma-delimited arguments: 1, 2, 3. This means that top -p `pidof program` won't work: top: unknown argument '1' usage: top -hv | -bcisSH -d delay -n iterations [-u user | -U user] -p p...

shell text-processing top

Josh

@Tshepang +1. I like your unix.SE questions :-)

Tshepang

@Josh thanks, that's the 1st such complement i've received yet

Josh

Hey @Zypher, how are you?

Zypher

20:52

oh just fine @Josh getting the motivation up to turn on the routing equipment in my office

Fosco

That is an excellent question... great answer by Wag, too...

Zypher

it's loud

Josh

haha

Moshe

Anyone know about this:

(redacted)

Josh

The routers are humming to you @Zypher

Moshe

20:53

(redacted)

Zypher

they are ... i need the poowwaaah

Tshepang

@Fosco thanks

Tim Stone

@Moshe ? It allows PNG alpha transparency to be rendered in older IEs.

Josh

@TimStone UGGGGGGGG We had to use this a lot

Bah. I go to all this trouble to create a star image to use since I'm out of stars, and people stop saying things worthy of being starred! Just my luck.

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