Tavern on the Meta

Popular Demand

9:00 PM

@TheUnhandledException Last time I checked, our sun was still emitting cosmic rays.

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand Do they all go straight toward Raleigh, NC?

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException Enough of them do.

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand Are landlords affected by cosmic rays? :-)

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException Only those who don't wear tinfoil hats.

The Unhandled Exception

That must be it then! Damn those cosmic rays. I'll be back everyone, have to wrap all my possessions in tinfoil.

Popular Demand

9:06 PM

@TheUnhandledException Way ahead of you:

The Unhandled Exception

That is hysterical

Popular Demand

(Source: one of the top results for "you've been foiled" in Google Images)

The Unhandled Exception

I'm going to get a packet capture to see what is happening with this cart issue since I can't recreate it. Anyone else have any bright ideas?

Must be some sort of session cookie problem...

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException How much info do you have about the actual failure? Could it have been a timing issue?

Wes

Okay so whats the current conversation

Anyone know if I can find out whats listening to a port on windows?

Popular Demand

9:15 PM

@Wes I'm pretty sure there's a high-scoring question about that on SO, SF and/or SU.

I don't have it bookmarked, though.

Wes

Okay i'll google

George Marian

@PopularDemand Nice. Someone got their cube foiled.

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand I have almost no info. I keep asking for info and not getting much. What I know is, when clicking the "checkout" link, her cart is dropped

Rebecca Chernoff

ugh that meeting sucked.

The Unhandled Exception

I cannot determine from her if it is dropped only when trying to check out or if it's dropped going between any pages

Wes

9:17 PM

this time I'm not timing out

George Marian

@RebeccaChernoff Did you manage to get rchern on paper?

The Unhandled Exception

I also cannot determine from her if she's going from the non-ssl to the SSL side, which might be what's causing the cart to drop

Popular Demand

Can anyone see any synonyms at meta.stackoverflow.com/tags/migration/synonyms ?

Rebecca Chernoff

@TheUnhandledException Does it show a number of items in the cart while navigating through the site? Maybe no items were in the cart!

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException Ah. So, basically, "Something is wrong, and there's a chance it's related to your product! Fix my life now!"

Rebecca Chernoff

9:18 PM

@GeorgeMarian Heh, slow going on that. This was an unrelated meeting.

The Unhandled Exception

@RebeccaChernoff She says she adds an item to cart and then clicks "checkout", and on the checkout page, the cart is empty. I cannot reproduce on my end in 4 browsers

George Marian

Ah.

Wes

AFK

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand Pretty close. "Something is wrong with your product! Fix it now!" is closer :-)

I'm sure it's our software, since we are her web host. But I can't fix an issue I can't reproduce. That's the worst, IMO

user152426

@PopularDemand - where are all those med students you promised me

lol

The Unhandled Exception

9:21 PM

That's why I'm thinking if I do a packet capture, I can see where the issue is happening. We also have a crapload of logs but I am not sure what specifically to add to the logs to help me diagnose (since I don't know where the issue is occurring)

Popular Demand

@user152426 Studying, probably.

I followed the proposal myself, at least.

@TheUnhandledException joelonsoftware.com/articles/customerservice.html "Suggest blowing out the dust"

The Unhandled Exception

LOL!

I will read that in a few minutes, need to do more investigation here first

user152426

@PopularDemand - Well I do like having you on board. Thanks. I really appreciate you help!

Popular Demand

@user152426 (Note that you won't see "Popular Demand" in the list of followers; I use the name "Lord Torgamus" on all the sites except MSO.)

Rebecca Chernoff

People who use different display names on different sites are weird. (;

The Unhandled Exception

9:26 PM

@RebeccaChernoff That we are :-)

Zypher

hi pot how's the kettle :)

Rebecca Chernoff

pfft I have a good reason! (but yes, that's why I put a (; at the end)

Zypher

hahah yes yes yes

Popular Demand

Um, hello? We're all participating heavily at Meta Stack Overflow? You wouldn't want your name associated with that either, if you weren't a mod.

Zypher

i'm an employee and still don't ;)

Popular Demand

9:29 PM

@Zypher Well, right, but the point is, you have an excuse. You can tell people you have to be associated with MSO for work.

Rebecca Chernoff

have to be what?

Zypher

haha

@RebeccaChernoff associated w/ meta.so for work

The Unhandled Exception

@RebeccaChernoff What was the reason FYI? I thought someone changed it for you, LOL

I thought it was Marc

Rebecca Chernoff

Marc changes it to silly things. >_<

and only on the chat side, not on the site

"rchern" annoys me sometimes. It is so boring!

q:

The Unhandled Exception

@RebeccaChernoff you mean only on MSO

Rebecca Chernoff

9:33 PM

hm?

The Unhandled Exception

@RebeccaChernoff LOL, that's ironic, because sometimes I would call you "Rebecca" before and was afraid you were using rchern because you didn't want to be called by your real name, haha

Rebecca Chernoff

Yeah, I only changed it on MSO last night.

haha

The Unhandled Exception

@RebeccaChernoff Maybe I am confused, wouldn't be the first time. Your MSO page says Rebecca Chernoff

Rebecca Chernoff

That would be correct.

The Unhandled Exception

OK. I'm just confused then :-)

Rebecca Chernoff

9:35 PM

@TheUnhandledException So, nothing unusual?

The Unhandled Exception

goes back to debugging his cart

@RebeccaChernoff Nope :-)

Rebecca Chernoff

Hmmm, GMail isn't loading. >_<

Zypher

oh noes!

Popular Demand

@RebeccaChernoff It's just you. https://mail.google.com looks up from here.

Zypher

status-norepo

Wes

9:37 PM

Back not here but then fuck all loads here

Dan Grossman

status-norepo

Wes

its 3 or 4 degrees outside why the hell are there teenagers walking about in miniskirts. Also I use the term loosely.

Popular Demand

I really wish someone would ask a question about how to restore lost source control files or something so I could use "status-norepo" literally.

Zypher

@PopularDemand I just rm -rf'd my hole repo tree on the server and don't have backups ... help!

Nick T

Anyone know if Gravatar pictures can have transparency?

Popular Demand

9:41 PM

@Zypher Heh, thanks, but it feels hollow when you're just making it up.

Unless you really did, in which case everyone, quick, go delete the SO questions you hate the most!

Zypher

best i can offer .... i always have backups

The Unhandled Exception

@NickT yes

yes

they

can

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException You're already leading The Tavern in messages posted, you know.

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand I was trying to make it so my gravitar icon enlarged to show that it was transparent

Popular Demand

Anyone know anything about Win7 homegroups?

Nick T

9:43 PM

@PopularDemand Speaking of repos...how do you get someone afraid of an "magical binary ball of files" that will "eat their code" to use VCS

Popular Demand

@NickT ... are you serious?

Nick T

@PopularDemand re what

George Marian

@Wes Because they're teenagers?

Popular Demand

@NickT Is there a real human being who thinks version control is a "magical binary ball of files," and do you actually have to convince this person to use version control?

Nick T

One of my friends was complaining that mgmt at his company was pressing him into using SVN in the middle of several ongoing projects and he was slightly apprehensive as the current "VCS" was a series of zips; very transparent compared to actual VCS systems

George Marian

9:47 PM

@NickT o.O

Wes

@GeorgeMarian bah I never wore a miniskirt as a teenager.

Benjol

If a zip isn't a 'magical binary ball of files', I don't know what is!

George Marian

@Wes I would hope not. :)

@Benjol A tar ball? ;)

Nick T

I think the issue was more transitioning to something totally new in the midst of working 50-60 hr weeks inthe first place

George Marian

I still don't trust zip files, after some annoying corruption issues would neuter the entire archive.

Benjol

9:48 PM

@NickT That I can understand!

George Marian

@NickT Yah, absolutely.

Benjol

It took me a while to trust git's 'magic'

Nick T

@GeorgeMarian Zip files were always handy at feigning for more time in class assignments...name some random file myreport.zip and email it

George Marian

@NickT lol

Nick T

+1 day extension at least

Wes

9:50 PM

0

Q: how to remove old svn revisons.

Hi our SVN repo is approaching 1/2 a gig. We have nowhere near that amount of code in our production system. Is it possible to remove old revisions I tried svn dump with a beginning revision number but to no avail. I couldn't import that into a clean svn repository. We don't need history over ...

Besides some of them look about 10

George Marian

@Benjol Yah, same here. And I had some experience with CVS before learning git.

Tyler Chacha

vampire voice Good Evening

George Marian

@Wes Ah, wanna be teens?

Benjol

hihi, I just got a 'Nice answer' badge on my own 'Nice question' :)

Wes

@Benjol link or it didn't happen

George Marian

9:52 PM

@Benjol heh, nice.

Benjol

13

A: Handy F# snippets

Generic memoization, courtesy of the man himself let memoize f = let cache = System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary<_,_>(HashIdentity.Structural) fun x -> let ok, res = cache.TryGetValue(x) if ok then res else let res = f x cache.[x] <- res res Usi...

The Unhandled Exception

OK. I'm at my wit's end. Anyone want to help me and see if they can reproduce this cart dropping issue?

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException What can I do?

Benjol

Admittedly, it's on a CW with no right answer ;)

Tyler Chacha

in JavaScript on Stack Overflow Chat, 33 secs ago, by Chacha102

We need a Javascript + CSS + PHP room.. for people who don't like to limit themselves

Wes

9:54 PM

Will this do
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4350145/how-to-remove-old-svn-revisons

sorry the speed of this is making me make mistakes

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand If you'd like to help, that would be awesome! Visit the site, not using Chrome, find a product (any product) and add to your cart. Then check out, and on the checkout page, see if the product is still in your cart.

Wes

@TheUnhandledException If my net worked then yes. Have you checked your not writing a cookie longer than 4 kb?

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException Some sysadmin is going to do a double-take when he sees my activity in the logs this week....

Benjol

@TheUnhandledException Guest account ok?

The Unhandled Exception

LOL. Will they even see that amongst the mass of MSO?SO traffic? :-)

Popular Demand

9:57 PM

Well, there's some good news; I saw "Welcome to Web 2.0
You need JavaScript and AJAX to be able to use this site." with NoScript enabled.

The Unhandled Exception

@Benjol She never said, so yeah, why not

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException But... that's work-related!

Wes

@TheUnhandledException If my net worked then yes. Have you checked your not writing a cookie longer than 4 kb?

The Unhandled Exception

@Wes I certainly hope I'm not, it's a session cookie, should be <1k

Benjol

@TheUnhandledException ok for me - I'm supposed to be looking at the total on the checkout page, or clicking on View cart again?

Popular Demand

9:58 PM

I used "Guest Checkout" and got "An error occured while trying to log you in. Please recheck all fields and try again"

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand Hmmm... maybe I should address that. But, the site requires JavaScript. Was that at the top of the page, or on a plain white page? I should go install NoScript...

@Benjol Both...

Popular Demand

I have disabled NoScript.

Benjol

2

Q: Can I remove a sites entry in the browsers history by clicking a link?

I am working on a website for a womans shelter and would like to include a link to leave the site and remove its entries in the browsers history. The objective is to cover the tracks of a person seeking help. Ideally I would like to implement this feature using something like jQuery. Currently t...

javascript browser-history

Popular Demand

It was on a plain white page.

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand Ok. That's bad. What browser?

Popular Demand

9:59 PM

There was additional text that I didn't copy in.

FF 3.6.

Clicking "Guest Checkout" a second time did not produce the error.

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand Ok, I know the page you received. I will check the error logging you in, that's very unusual.

Benjol

3.6.12 here, no error, but the guest checkout page was quite slow coming

Popular Demand

Now I see Billing info, Shipping info, coupons shipping, payment, payment summary

Subtotal: $12.95 (which is correct) but all other fields $0.00

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand if you view your cart, is the item still there?

@Benjol Thanks. By "quite slow", do you mean 10 seconds? 30 seconds? 60 or more???

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException Hm, I got the JS/AJAX page again. How many domains is JS coming from?

The Unhandled Exception

10:01 PM

@PopularDemand Should only be two.

Benjol

@TheUnhandledException, actually, I've got the same thing as @Popular - subtotal ok, but all the rest 0, if I view cart, it's still there too

Rebecca Chernoff

@PopularDemand Well that's great for you, but I want to check my email, not yours. q:

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException Ah, I only whitelisted one.

The Unhandled Exception

The other totals update as you fill in the fields. We have a bug filed to make that part more clear

@PopularDemand Oh, that makes sense then

Popular Demand

I have now enabled the other one, and got this:

> If you can read this, you do have Javascript enabled. This probably means you are using an older browser which does not have AJAX support. Please upgrade your browser or consider using Firefox.

The Unhandled Exception

10:03 PM

Customer is saying the item is no longer in her cart, subtotal field is $0.00

Popular Demand

Using FF 3.6.12.

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand That's... really unusual. I'm going to get NoScript and check the sites with it

Benjol

@TheUnhandledException, maybe we should try with the product she used - or is it systematic for all products for her?

Popular Demand

Is the site expected to work in FF 2?

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand No. 3.5 and greater, IE7 and greater, Safari 3 and greater

Popular Demand

10:05 PM

Okay, then hold on while I exit out of FF entirely and try again with no NoScript.

The Unhandled Exception

Do people use FF 2 anymore?

I guess you do @PopularDemand :-)

@Benjol I would love to try specifically what she did, but 4 emails to her have given me no new information :-(

You know as much as I do, sadly. Makes it tough to troubleshoot!

Thanks a lot for testing this @Benjol and @PopularDemand. Helps me greatly

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException I never use FF2, but I still have it installed on my machine for testing purposes.

George Marian

WTF?

> Working Conditions
General office environment (Standing, Sitting, Walking, Talking, Typing, etc.)

Popular Demand

Well, there is some good news, after restarting FF, I can still see the item in the cart.

Benjol

@TheUnhandledException, you're welcome.

The Unhandled Exception

10:08 PM

That is good news

Benjol

Anyone here good with the git-fu?

Popular Demand

From "Your Cart," I clicked "Checkout" and then immediately clicked "View Cart" at the top right again

The item is still in the cart.

However, Subtotal remains the only field on the page that is not $0.00.

The Unhandled Exception

Thanks @PopularDemand. Same happens for me

@PopularDemand This is a known issue, as soon as you fill in fields the first AJAX call will update the totals

Shipping is fetched on demand

Popular Demand

Anything else I can do for you?

George Marian

@Benjol Whacha need to do? Not that I have a lot of experience with git, but I have used it a bit.

The Unhandled Exception

10:10 PM

@PopularDemand No, thank you very much!

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException You're welcome.

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand Yeah what's happening here is, all links which JavaScript will observe point to /ajax_required.php. When JavaScript observes them, is cancels the click event, so you should only see that page if Js is off. In theory. In practice it doesn't work so well and we're going to remove that page.

Benjol

@GeorgeMarian, I've copied my entire (personal) repo from work, as there's a complicated rebase I wanted to do this weekend. I just wondered how I'd go about it if I was doing things 'properly' (clone/push etc.)

The Unhandled Exception

The two domains allow customers who don't purchase their own SSL cert to use a shared wildcard cert

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException Fair enough.

The Unhandled Exception

10:15 PM

Well, I think I did all I can do for now. I tested it from 5 computers, 3 browsers, I reviewed logs and checked everything I could, I asked coworkers to test and got two people here to test. Without more information from her (which has been requested multiple times) I can't do much more. But still the issue doesn't have a nice "clean" ending, and it's a serious issue. I hate that! Oh well...

George Marian

@Benjol I do believe a git clone is what you'd need to do it the "right" way.

@Benjol Are you familliar with Git Magic?

Nick T

chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/rooms/251

so quiet.

:(

Zypher

►

Nick T

@Zypher Napster killers

Benjol

@GeorgeMarian Nope, (follows link). Oops, yes, I've been there already, I believe

George Marian

10:18 PM

It's a pretty good e-book.

Zypher

ehh ... napster can have all the attention it wants .. never used it old skool

George Marian

> Want numerous tamper-proof geographically diverse redundant archives? If your project has many developers, don’t do anything! Every clone of your code is effectively a backup. Not just of the current state, but of your project’s entire history. Thanks to cryptographic hashing, if anyone’s clone becomes corrupted, it will be spotted as soon as they try to communicate with others.

Nick T

They look quite cunning

George Marian

lol

Nick T

One of (many?) 404 pictures for here

When trying to learn some API/library or whatever for a new project, do you just make your project and have it eventually evolve into the final thing or do you make some dummy little project(s) to muck about in?

Popular Demand

10:29 PM

@NickT Both.

Really depends on the specifics of what I'm trying to do.

George Marian

Yah, it depends on the complexity of the project and/or the API.

Nick T

10:44 PM

Anyone else suffering through Christmas musak like me?

Popular Demand

in Regulator Headquarters, 45 secs ago, by Popular Demand

8

Q: Answering questions tagged as "subjective" and reputation

Does getting voted up when you answer a question marked as "subjective" give you no rep points? I ask this because I recently got some of my answers voted up, yet my reputation didn't change. These answers were in response to questions tagged as subjective. The only two reasons that I can think o...

support faq

The Unhandled Exception

@NickT Sorry, I've been dealing with a bunch of mischigas this afternoon

Nick T

@TheUnhandledException eh?

The Unhandled Exception

@NickT Re "Tunes" being quiet

Nick T

Ah, heh.

The Unhandled Exception

10:49 PM

I've been swamped with customer issues and other work this afternoon

Now, I am burnt out and ready for a beer

Ah! Just in time for happy hour

To the moderators: Sorry for my two annoying flags. To @PopularDemand, sorry for flagging you! Both were my carelessness, I will try to avoid posting carelessly like that in the future!

George Marian

sigh I'm down to one bottle of beer and I'm totally out of scotch.

Benjol

@GeorgeMarian, already?! :)

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException To make up for it, you can use your eight remaining flags to point out FAQs that aren't CW.

I just realized that a shocking number of FAQs don't follow the rules, and inline retagging makes that easy to fix.

The Unhandled Exception

@GeorgeMarian Oh no! That sounds like a critical bug, better work on that urgently!

George Marian

@Benjol Well, the beer is from a six pack I bought a while back and the scotch, well it's good stuff. (Not that I drink a lot. Usually, one drink in the evening.)

The Unhandled Exception

10:58 PM

@PopularDemand Gladly, just pass em along. Although these were chat flags, I should have deleted the URL of that site in case her or her competitors google it

George Marian

@TheUnhandledException Agreed. :)

The Unhandled Exception

and should have asked you to do the same

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException Just go to the list of questions tagged [faq] and open any that have avatars.

The Unhandled Exception

"flag for moderator"

not as offensive, as an administrative issue, specifically, I wanted to delete within the 2 minuet window and forgot to

Benjol

@GeorgeMarian It's just that the last time we spoke, I think you'd run out too :)

George Marian

11:01 PM

@Benjol Heh. Well, I am unemployed, so... :)

It happens a lot. lol

Popular Demand

Wow, there are a lot of old questions tagged [faq] that should be tagged [meta-faq] or just deleted entirely.

The Unhandled Exception

Sorry @PopularDemand, I'm not sure what I'm looking for. Like this one?

26

Q: Limit to self-promotion in answers?

It's been covered before that posting links to your own website is ok, but should there be a line drawn? There were several spam flags today for Ira Baxter's recent posts, presumably because they all link to his website. Initially I disagreed because his answers seem for the most part relevant to...

support faq answers etiquette spam

George Marian

I guess I could buy the cheap stuff, but I like to enjoy it, not merely get inebriated.

The Unhandled Exception

Flagging @MichaelMrozek does sound like fun, but, why am I doing it again?

2

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException So a mod can convert the question to CW.

Benjol

11:03 PM

@GeorgeMarian I'm on the wine this evening, the scotch is in a cupboard, behind a pile of boxes, behind a sofa...

The Unhandled Exception

I though so. Ok, awwwway we go!

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException Of course, a lot of these were tagged [faq] before [faq] was a mod-only tag, and really don't deserve it. So in that case, modify your message accordingly.

Or they were tagged that way on SO and then got migrated here.

George Marian

@Benjol Oh, yeah! Thanks for the reminder. I bought some wine for Thanksgiving and still have quite a bit left. Never even touched the bottle of pinot noir, my fav.

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand Got it. You really want me to flag them all? Some mod is going to get maaad at me! :-)

George Marian

@Benjol What kinda scotch do you drink?

Popular Demand

11:06 PM

@TheUnhandledException I used up all my flags doing that. And gah, inline retags do bump to the main page!

I just wiped out... like, everything.

The Unhandled Exception

Haha, I just flagged one with

> Jeff will never read this... er, I mean, this should be CW

Let's see if that causes some sort of wrath :-)

Popular Demand

Although I suppose there are worse crimes than making a bunch of FAQ entries top the MSO front page. I hope there are, at least.

The Unhandled Exception

This should not be tagged [faq] right?

5

Q: Should the official FAQ include information on how to answer as well as ask questions?

The StackOverflow FAQ includes a lot of information on how to ask questions and what questions to ask, but very little information on what makes a good answer. I often see answers (example) of the sort that simply reference an external site and say, in effect, go read this. Unfortunately, over ...

feature-request faq answering-questions

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException Yeah, that's the one I was looking at when I realized some of the [faq] tags were bad.

The Unhandled Exception

should it be [meta-faq]?

Popular Demand

11:09 PM

@TheUnhandledException Yeah, but the system won't let you change it 'til you have a diamond, so....

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand Got it. I've never been brazen enough to try messing with red tags before :-)

I'm assuming this should be [meta-faq] as well?

4

Q: When is it ok to make your own question and answer it a la blog post?

Possible Duplicate: Moving a personal technical blog to stackoverflow / serverfault Should I ask questions I already know the answer too and answer them myself? So you've just hacked together an awesome algorithm for solving a particular sets of problems. Is it ok to make up a question...

support faq questions etiquette

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException There is one workaround: you can roll back red tags. Probably not a good idea to do that unless you're really sure of yourself, though.

Yeah, it should be... but it would be even better if it were closed as a dupe, because I'm pretty sure that's been asked at least five times.

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand Which I am not, lol

It is closed

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException What's your excuse for being here at 6:12?

Benjol

@GeorgeMarian I think we've already been here :), but can't find it in the transcript. The first bottle I had was lagavulin.

The Unhandled Exception

11:13 PM

@PopularDemand Was waiting until after 6 for that customer to respond to my email that nobody could reproduce her cart issue. She didn't, so now I am going to wrap for the night

Thanks again for the help @PopularDemand and @Benjol! I'm going to grab a beer myself. @GeorgeMarian since you're almost out the next round's on me :-)

George Marian

@Benjol Hehe. Probably. I probably suggested The Singleton to you. :)

@TheUnhandledException Thanks, mate. :)

Popular Demand

@TheUnhandledException No problem, enjoy.

The Unhandled Exception

Have a good night everyone

Wes

@TheUnhandledException goodnight

Benjol

night

George Marian

11:17 PM

@TheUnhandledException g'night

Tim Stone

11:28 PM

Wow, how did it end up being 6:30?

Aiden Bell

What the spam is this talkative badge crap

George Marian

@AidenBell New badge, for 10 started posts in chat.

Aiden Bell

@GeorgeMarian - I know, it is lame. What next? Badges for waking up in the morning "awake" perhaps

George Marian

Can anyone suggest a good online resource learning Python?

@AidenBell LOL

I'm awaiting the loquacious badge myself. :)

Aiden Bell

@GeorgeMarian - diveintopython.org

George Marian

11:31 PM

@AidenBell A sweet, thanks. It has a PDF version, nice.

Aiden Bell

;)

@GeorgeMarian - always glad to help someone learn Python

George Marian

I think I'm going to answer my own question on askubuntu by creating the desktop delicious tool I seek.

@AidenBell I've heard good thinks about it, though the significant white space gives me a reason to pause.

Wes

@GeorgeMarian I don't think its for 10 starred posts. I've got the talkitive badge

I think its for having 10 posts, 1 starred

George Marian

@Wes That's what the description states. Though, I take issue with that being "talkative."

OIC

Ah yes, I stand corrected.

Wes

Yeah I only have one starred post I think.

George Marian

11:35 PM

Ok, that's freaking lame. Ten posts does not mean that you're talkative, even if one was good enough for one stinking star.

Tim Stone

@GeorgeMarian To be fair, it's the same amount of whitespace for a typical properly-indented program, give or take some.

Wes

I agree completely

Tim Stone

@GeorgeMarian I think they assume that saying at least ten things and having one of them starred means that you were in chat long enough to appreciate it as a means of conversation, which is the point of the badge. ;)

George Marian

@TimStone That's not my concern, it's the fact that it has meaning. I tend to spew white space all over my code, for legibility.

Tim Stone

@GeorgeMarian Yeah, it kind of irks me too. I'm not a Python person myself, but I had to mess around with it trying to fix issues I was having with hg-git, and I wasn't unhappy with what I saw.

So I imagine it's not too bad when all is said and done.

George Marian

11:37 PM

@TimStone Yah, but I think they could've come up with a better name for the badge. Not that anything comes to mind. heh

Tim Stone

Oh, fair point. :)

Aiden Bell

@GeorgeMarian - I hated the whole indenting thing at first, but trust me, you recover quickly and it is well worth it.

Tim Stone

Plus, after all of the poorly formatted PHP code I've seen, a language that punches you in the face for not being tidy almost seems like a blessing. If only I could force all of those people to convert...

Aiden Bell

@GeorgeMarian - for one, all Python looks roughly the same, so everyone's is readable. You also tend to write some Python and think "wow, that's a big wedge of code" and usually that spells some smell somewhere ... but in other languages you can format the stink away

radp

indeed, all Python looks like:

return (x[0][:][2:6:-1] for x,y,z in foo if foo[2][1].__hasattr__(bar) for foo in spam)

Aiden Bell

11:41 PM

@radp - just like all Java looks like:

George Marian

@AidenBell Nice. I guess my biggest concern is that, being dyslexic, I have issues keeping track of a stream of things. So, significant white space will take some effort for me to learn. Of course, if it's worth the effort, I don't mind doing it.

Aiden Bell

try {
    blindcall();
    blindcall();
} catch (MeaninglessException ...

radp

} except BindError {
  bindcall()
}

Aiden Bell

@radp - indeed.

Tim Stone

@AidenBell Does Python allow for default argument values, by the way?

Aiden Bell

11:43 PM

@TimStone - errm. yes.

Tim Stone

I figured as much, but that may be my biggest gripe about Java, heh.

private ByteBuffer getBuffer() throws InvalidDataException {
    return this.getBuffer(DEFAULT_BUFFER_SIZE);
}

So much waste :(

Wes

Well whats everyones language of choice?

Aiden Bell

C

George Marian

Yah, java is rather wordy.

C if I knew it well enough

Wes

Yeah I hate java but that may be because I work in it

George Marian

11:45 PM

lol

Wes

I really need to start learning some new languages. like C :p

Aiden Bell

@GeorgeMarian - Python comes alive when you start messing with metaclasses and other meta-funk

George Marian

I was asked this question for a PHP job. My answer was C#, since I don't really know C. I didn't get a call-back. heh

Tim Stone

I do mostly everything in Java. I also spend some time with C#, and I used to do a lot of web development in PHP. One of my favourite obscure languages is called Pike, and I've been meaning to try Python more seriously.

Wes

Theres so so much boiler plate in java

is there no OO language that does a better job of equality

At least a default implementation that isn't same object

Aiden Bell

11:47 PM

@GeorgeMarian docs.python.org/release/2.6.6/tutorial/index.html is also good, or if you want 3.x line docs.python.org/py3k/tutorial/index.html

George Marian

PHP Is improving steadily, and I don't mind working with it. However, the namespace syntax is farking stupid. As are the lack of call signature conventions in the older functions.

Wes

No typed primatives though

Tim Stone

Don't make me pull out the PHP compiler answer again, hahah

George Marian

@AidenBell In a nutshell, what's the difference between 2.x and 3.x?

Wes

I like PHP for string processing though.

Aiden Bell

11:49 PM

IMHO, PHP is just borked and has only one feature: Accessibility, everything else is a bug

2

George Marian

@Wes mmm...perl....

radp

I can't help but hate all so-called languages that need a symbol before their variable names :)

Aiden Bell

@GeorgeMarian - stackoverflow.com/questions/170921/…

Wes

jeez been a long time since I saw that @radp

radp

sure, it lets you write $$i instead of that clunky eval(i) I guess...

I'll consider it next time I'll need an eval of arbitrary stuff

George Marian

11:52 PM

@AidenBell Ah, thank you.

@radp Yah, that drives me nuts about both php and perl. At least in perl it really means something.

radp

I still think there's value in learning Python 3, then Python 2

sure, if you're a "tech geeking clown" you don't really care about what you use

Aiden Bell

I think either way, it won't matter a great deal until you get down and dirty. I would go with 3 first to drill in some of the new style

radp

some stuff like dict comprehensions is just better than having to write dict((k,v) for foo in bar))

George Marian

Gah...moving to WA wasn't the best idea given my allergies.

radp

Then again, * comprehensions are stuff only tech geeking clowns like and use.

user152426

11:57 PM

I know I already asked a couple of you, but would some of you more experienced SE users be willing to follow my dermatology proposal at area 51

77

Dermatology and Dermatopathology

Proposed Q&A site for expert dermatologist and dermatopathologists

Currently in definition.

Tim Stone

@GeorgeMarian It took me a few second to realize that you meant the state and not Web Applications for some reason, heh.

user152426

?

George Marian

@AidenBell Hmm...my concern is the hoops I have to go through to have both installed concurrently.

radp

Real People loathe the mathematical impurity of such inane constructs.

Aiden Bell

@GeorgeMarian - depends on the distro, Fedora has both in 14

George Marian

11:58 PM

@TimStone Oh yah, I didn't even think of that ambiguity.

Tim Stone

Honestly the second option doesn't even make sense, but I guess I just figured it was that bad over there. Don't tell @RebeccaChernoff ;)

George Marian

@AidenBell Alas, I'm running Ubuntu.

Aiden Bell

@GeorgeMarian - then a symlink controls if Python -> Python3 or Python2

@GeorgeMarian - Check your distro. Also Python 2 has much better library support and works better with things like mod_wsgi if you want to do web development.

If you want to get practical, start with 2

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