Tavern on the Meta

@TheUnhandledException exactly... :p

2:53 AM

The overwhelming silence in here suggests I may need something more interesting to do with my Friday nights. :P

(removed)

@TimStone Pshaw.

Hah

The fact that I'm browsing SE sites on a Friday night and not even whoring rep is truly sad.

Meh

3:00 AM

What are you meh'ing about, it's Saturday for you! ;)

@TimStone Which is why all of these are rather irrelevant to me :P

Oh!

That reminds me, for no apparent reason.

searches

@YiJiang blog.danielfriesen.name/2010/02/16/…

Do you see as many things terribly, terribly wrong with that design as I do? My eyes almost shut immediately in reflex. :P

@TimStone Ouch... well, it's certainly not the worst I've seen, but it is pretty bad

I stumbled upon it the other day and thought you'd appreciate it. And I agree, I've seen far worse, but it still caught me off guard, heh.

Johannes Schaub - litb

3:17 AM

hey folks

A: Why the refcount is 2 not 1?

@JohannesSchaublitb 'Ello

9

void debug_zval_dump ( mixed $variable ); Code: $var = 1; # $var's Refcount = 1 debug_zval_dump($var); # $var is passed by refrence intarlly. Output: long(1) refcount(2) Explanation: As $var's refcount is 1, PHP optimizes this and handles the memory directly instead of makin...

Nine up votes for copying the documentation? Really?

If I had all day.

I would fix injustices on SO

Like when someone copying documentation gets +9 and another answer which also provides some useful information has 0 votes.

If only we had SO super powers, heh.

Johannes Schaub - litb

what do you folks think about my retagging question

3:34 AM

@JohannesSchaublitb I think you have a point.

A: Sequential UID generation for MySQL Char() or other Field

4:13 AM

This guy is getting up my nose

-1

Isn't that a contradiction in terms? And your motivation for requiring sequentiality remains obscure.

@AidenBell Sounds painful.

@GeorgeMarian - Trying to stop myself exploding

People answering without thinking. And a decent-rep too on the answerer

@AidenBell I find I have to do that many times a day.

@GeorgeMarian - What can ya do eh? SO is going down hill when questions like this don't get answers.

or get stupid ones ;)

Though the MySQL mailing list may be better, not the point really.

Or non-answers.

4:18 AM

must avoid commenting "you are clearly a fool" on people's answer

@AidenBell Yeah, that's a shame. It's a decent question. Apparently, you and I are the only ones that think so.

me too

@GeorgeMarian - well I think I have it cracked. ORDER BY uuid should reveal the index-order and it orders sequentially by relative date of the UUID so that should produce an INSERT order at the end of the page/table.

@AidenBell I still think the problem is the limiting restriction on "anyone who knows the internals of innoDB"

Though I can only generate 1 billion gazillion ids a millisecond before collision becomes a risk

4:31 AM

Have you guys heard about the huge uproar on the Math.SE site?

One of the mods has resigned:

@drachenstern - Maybe right, but an answer without that knowledge isn't concrete enough ... without it I just have a best-guess hack. Though my guess on the b-tree ordering might be right, evidence is required.

12

Q: I quit. Here's why.

I have offered my resignation as a moderator to the SE team and I think it's important that I provide some explanation here. Principally, I decided over the past weekend to pull the advertising for math.SE from a local professional newsletter because I was no longer comfortable recommending the ...

@AidenBell yeah so I'm not sure what the problem is with generating them internally or externally

drama drama drama

you looking to reduce load on the server generating those? Just send them from the client and let the client do the work

4:32 AM

@Aiden: But it's really bad.

@drachenstern - No problem, just need to be sure that UUIDs don't insert in random on-disk order in the table ... it will slow down inserts

Q: An open letter to Jeff Atwood

17

Dear Mr. Atwood, I have been an active user on Math.SE for several months now. I have enjoyed participation in the website together with the interaction with other mathematicians that it has brought me. I have learned much from the answers provided me by experts, and I am glad to have contribute...

discussion

See what I mean?

@AidenBell does mysql not do efficient indexing on heap tables?

Or are you trying to minimize readback seeks?

how often are the records going to be sequential?

or are they expected to be, at least?

@GeorgeEdison that maths posse, they are like teenage girls lol

I read some of the stuff... wow. Just wow.

Thankfully AskUbuntu hasn't had any of that.

4:36 AM

@drachenstern - within a given transaction of N writes, each UUID for the write must be sequential in write order across tables. There are two issues:
A) Ensuring they are sequential to minimize INSERT time due to seeking into the middle of the table
B) Ensuring the index can efficiently search them, which normal UUIDs make difficult

@GeorgeEdison - yea but AskUbuntu is a useless and pathetic waste of bytes and a user community with a mentality as bad as "Maths people are different" only they have a clearer hypocrisy. Maybe I should head over to Ubuntu and cause trouble lol

so on TSQL (admittedly obviously not MySQL) there's good indexing on strings, where it's not necessary to force sequentiality. How often are you polling back out of this table? As often/more often than writes to?

@drachenstern about 30:70 read:write

If the UUID string is searched through a btree from first char onwards I should be OK as the sequential bit is at the start so it won't get more than about 13 edge follows before hitting a leaf

Essentialy making my char(32) nearly as efficient to search as a timestamp in string form char(13)

@GeorgeEdison Yeah, that's some serious drama.

I figured it hashed the input string on the index, as it were, so looking across the index for a UUID (already a hash) would be fast

@AidenBell This is the behaviour I expect

if it is hashed then it is out of my hands wrt index speed

bit I think it is a btree on the value than a hash

Anyway, must get back to work ;)

4:43 AM

let us know

5:02 AM

@Aiden: Waste of bytes???

Just because our site has had no serious issues and has more questions than any other SE site doesn't mean that you have to cause trouble there :)

@GeorgeEdison don't make me crack out some logic lol

Go ahead... my turing-complete chat bot will reply.

@GeorgeEdison - is this sentence false?

"Why do you ask that?" ... "How does asking that make you feel?" ... "What would you say was the answer to that?"

5:33 AM

Meta SO

2 hours ago, 1 hour 54 minutes total – 44 messages, 3 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 36 mins ago by Dan Grossman

@DanGrossman you're awfully tickled about that convo, did we do a good job? :p

Yes, I found it amusing

@DanGrossman Dismissive comment about how the SO tavern and SO chat in general has become drab and boring compared to the Meta Tavern

General reference to the greatness of unicorns and waffles

Expresses disappointment at the lack of either of those on SO proper

Concurrence opinion on the general drabness of SO Tavern.

Expression of desire for more jovial conversations on SO Tavern

@drachenstern Turns conversation to beer

5:40 AM

Additional pointing out that people who don't know how to program are finding their way to SO Tavern, thus draining the life out of the damned thing

@YiJiang ooooh, yum

Makes reference to Friday and the name of this room

Here's a good beer: shiner.com

Ahsan, India

24 5

java c homework sql html linux network-programming

learning Java, C and VB.NET simultaneously, as well Linux and UML ...

oy, he's gonna need some of that beer I think

@drachenstern Points out that "oy!"s are just not genuine when they are not made by @rchern

lol

Warns of possibility that she may arrive at any moment and turn your face around

Makes some more @rchern references

5:44 AM

:) -> (: eh?

@drachenstern That's what happens when people annoy her

I don't think I annoy @rchern ... yet

;)

@drachenstern Don't worry, you will, she will "oy!" you, or even worse, "double oy!" you and you know your time is up

You will face a fate worse than death

Muhahahahahaha.....

6:05 AM

Good morning you'all

Jeff was busy

Q: An open letter to Jeff Atwood

was I out of line?

17

Dear Mr. Atwood, I have been an active user on Math.SE for several months now. I have enjoyed participation in the website together with the interaction with other mathematicians that it has brought me. I have learned much from the answers provided me by experts, and I am glad to have contribute...

discussion

(currently at the bottom)

6:21 AM

buehler .... buehler .... buehler .... buehler

If I see something that I think is a bug on the english.se should I go to their meta or to MSO?

to their meta initially, but if it's a technical bug go ahead and put it on MSO as well

thanks

Let's do a bit of legwork first and find out if anything was posted before

usually preferred ;)

Q: Merged questions still show up in the Unanswered list

found it

12

Merged questions can't be answered, so I consider it a bug that they show up in the Unanswered list, even though it's technically true. EDIT: Adding the [feature-request] tag. The requested feature: "don't show merged questions in the Unanswered list."

feature-request bug unanswered-questions merged-questions

Q: What would be a good CMS for gallery

7:46 AM

0

Take a look at this old site. Came alive in 2003 but around 08-09 the admin left and well, the site just died. But it had some great designs in it, and I use to always wonder how did they make such a site. Well, the site has pages.. one for designs/websites/socialmedia layouts/and tutorials/scri...

web-development cms gallery forums

Bad question attracting some very bad answers

Q: why iframe? what is the use?

9:59 AM

-3

why iframe? what is the use?

html css

Another bad question getting bad answers

10:44 AM

> Valve today announced that Portal 2— the sequel to the ground-breaking title that won over 30 game of the year awards, despite missing its original ship date—will now be available the week of April 18th, 2011. This two month slip not only marks the shortest delay in Valve's proud tradition of delays, it represents the approaching convergence of Valve Time and Real Time. Though this convergence spells doom for humanity, it will not affect the new Portal 2 release date.

We're all doomed!! Doomed! I'm telling ya!

10:58 AM

@YiJiang If questions like that shouldn't be answered -- how exactly is one supposed to get the Reversal badge?

@radp Meh, that question is actually unanswerable, given how ridiculously vague it is

11:13 AM

@YiJiang It must be because I don't lurk enough in SO

It weirds me out to see people snobbing questions.

2:25 PM

Alright, if anyone here has access to IE6/7, please run this for me: jsfiddle.net/yijiang/8p5BN/4

Tell me what the three alerts say

Actually, just tell me if they match border: 5px solid black; text-align: right;

Q: How to make font-size change depending on string length?

2:46 PM

0

I have a table: <table width="200px"> <tr> <td> <font style="font-size:14px;"><?php echo $text; ?></font> </td> </tr> </table> The $text variable is dynamic, and might be 3 characters long, or 50 characters long. T...

php javascript html css layout

So, the question seems like a terrible idea in the first place, inconsistent font sizes make me sad.

But the -2 answer and the accompanying comments...priceless.

@TimStone Yup. You cannot have a prototypical "How do I get only x words/line to display" without someone popping up with that answer

> erm .... can you google it? I have a project to work on ... do ask me again if you can't get it

Originally it was even funnier because I read the "do" as "don't"

4:22 PM

@radp where are your userscripts again? I think you've updated them but I haven't done the same.

Log watching is bad for blood pressure.

@TimStone lol

'Ello @rchern, @AidenBell

hello @TimStone

'ello

@rchern um? The only userscripts I've made are SO Live! and SO Live! Chat Edition.

4:38 PM

Those are the ones I want!

Didn't you do something to limit overlapping notifications and score jumps that make it seem like my rep drops when I refresh?

@rchern Not yet.

Oh right, userscripts, argh.

Overlapping notifications are chat only and I don't see an easy fix for that.

After I get done debugging work stuff I guess I should do that next.

Score jumps, I couldn't repro that.

4:40 PM

Urgh... why won't NetBeans recognise Inconsolata?

It's the same issue with both scripts though.

I get an upvote, score jumps 10 and chat shows a notification.

I get another upvote and accepted answer but haven't had any activity on sites, score jumps 35 and chat rooms now shows 2 notifications (+10 and +35).

I refresh the site page and my score goes down 10

@rchern weird, because every API poll only asks for events that happen after the previous poll.

  var last_update = now();

  function update_reputation_since(date){
    //snip
    api.UsersByIdReputation(
      { id: user_id,
        fromdate: date
      }).getResponse( function(data)
      {
        last_update = now(); //only update on successful update
        //snip
            });
      _schedule_next_update();
  }

  function _schedule_next_update(){
    setTimeout( function(){update_reputation_since(last_update) },
                60000);
  }

you're using Soapi?

If anything, I should risk losing updates, rather than receiving duplicate ones.

@rchern yes.

here's what I see in Chrome's Network tab

http://api.meta.stackoverflow.com/1.0/users/140548/reputation?key=a4T4v6g2pESuXB5InP2CWg&fromdate=1290271500&jsonp=Soapi._internal._callback1059

err, wrong tab

so it seems like it is doing it right, but |:

4:48 PM

@rchern what's the previous call's fromdate?

oh... wait.

Hrm.

1290271500, 1290271560, 1290271620, 1290271680, 1290271740

I think I'm afraid something like this could be going on:

1. _schedule_next_update() is called

2. function(){ update_reputation_since(last_update) } is scheduled with the current value of last_update

3. getResponse's argument is called

4. last_update is changed, but that doesn't affect the function scheduled at step 2

mm

it depends by what value last_update has in that unnamed scope at call time... ugh.

I can't put the _schedule_next_update call inside the getResponse body, or one failed call would stop SOLive

so every time, a different fromdate param is actually used... but it risks being the previous cycle's fromdate

That said, I can't repro this.

My network requests are definitely non istantaneous, so if this was the issue I'd also experience them.

@radp Looks like you might need callbacks

4:56 PM

haven't pulled up the code, but as for a repro scenario, is it when rep is received twice within a minute of each other but on either sides of your call?

hmm

(+10) (+15+10) = UNICORN OVERFLOW

well, really it is 35 (;

+2/-5? I thought you were better than this!!

is confused

Error 1. Subprocess exited with segmentation fault.

5:00 PM

returns to wheel @radp off to the insane asylum

2

-- 2010-11-20 rep +35   = 2887

no rep recalcs please! ):

;)

Does this happen often or just that one time?

Error 1. Subprocess crashed with segmentation fault.

150 rep points ):

@TimStone often

Ah, OK.

And what's going on exactly? :P

5:03 PM

unless you meant the 150 rep point difference between what the site says my rep is and what /reputation says my rep is

Hello guys.

I had a terrible dream today.

haha

rut roh

I thought I'd written +10+15+10 was 45

looks up

@rchern Mine is -15 points away. Hmmm... how did your difference become so high?

Error 1. Subprocess crashed with segmentation fault.

5:04 PM

@TimStone, read this and the next few lines chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/279092#279092

Seems like radpbot is malfunctioning

@radp let me refresh your memory. (; chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/messages/279127/history

@rchern Bookmark it, duh!

Ah, I see.

I disbelieve your reality and replace it with my own!

5:06 PM

@radp Right, radpbot really is malfunctioning

►

But that's alright, we'll wheel him off to spend some time in the Minecraft world

He'll be fine after twenty minutes there

(badp) Sorry guys, I had to quickly change the kernel, it kept killing this process. Stupid kernel.

2

@radp, have you been hanging out with @TheUnhandledException and @JoshsSocks?

KERNAL

:This article is about Commodore's 8-bit OS software. Kernal is also a common misspelling of kernel. The KERNAL is Commodore's name for the ROM-resident operating system core in its 8-bit home computers; from the original PET of 1977, followed by the extended but strongly related versions used in its successors; the VIC-20, Commodore 64, Plus/4, C16, and C128. The Commodore 8-bit machines' KERNAL consisted of the low-level, close-to-the-hardware OS routines roughly equivalent to the BIOS in IBM PC compatibles (in contrast to the BASIC interpreter routines, also located in ROM), and was us...

5:18 PM

@rchern I was going to try and repo your situation, but then I realized that I haven't gotten very much rep lately. :P

4.9k 3 4 11

.htaccess mod-rewrite apache redirect php url-rewriting java

Yes, that's me? ;)

A: Sequential UID set generation for MySQL Char() or other Field

@TimStone :

-1

Isn't that a contradiction in terms? And your motivation for requiring sequentiality remains obscure.

Is this dude an idiot or am I being sensitive?

@AidenBell Since he posted a comment as an answer, it's automatically the former. :P

+1

5:27 PM

But on top of that, clearly he has no idea what you're trying to achieve, heh.

+10

Hm, definite +1 on the question though, that's an interesting problem.

@TimStone - well I think I have it nailed, but waiting a bit to see what answers appear

You're using the approach you outlined in the question? It seems pretty reasonable to me, but I lack a good grasp on MySQL key storage mechanisms to know if there's any pitfalls, heh.

5:47 PM

@AidenBell I can't take that shit anymore... -1

And, I'm a miser with my rep.

@GeorgeMarian Laying the smack down, nice.

:D

Neighbors woke up making a racket this morning. heh

@GeorgeMarian - Good -1, I think you for your vengeance

Heheh. ;)

@AidenBell I'm good at vengeance. :)

lol

5:54 PM

4

Just for you @GeorgeMarian

Seriously though, that's just ridiculous. He's fine to question you, but that should be in comments. However, who cares what your motivation is? If the question is clear enough, we don't need to ask those kinda questions. Unless of course, there's the possibility of nefarious activity.

Not to mention, that I think you do explain your motivation.

@AidenBell NICE! I love it.

Well thank you @GeorgeMarian, though it is always disconcerting when someone with decent rep acts up ... have to ponder the question's wording etc. Also, if I can ask a mod_wsgi question and get an answer of the Dumpleton himself, this should get an answer at some point, otherwise i'm self answering lol

@AidenBell Yah, he's nearly 1/2 to mod tool access, that's disconcerting. Hopefully, he won't notice them.

@radp lol

@radp, @GeorgeMarian lol

Q: Height:100% and Sticky Footer layouts. The final battle

6:00 PM

0

CSS wonderland. My dream is to understand at least the 100% layout with sticky footer and header. I've been browsing the web and found five+ different ways to do that. http://ryanfait.com/sticky-footer/ http://www.visibilityinherit.com/code/height-stickyfooter-centered.php http://www.cssstickyfo...

html css

We should append "The Final Battle" to every one of our questions from now on. Preferably with triple question marks.

@YiJiang 100% agreed

Hahahah

Or "The Reckoning"

@YiJiang Complete with an embedded, autoplaying The Final Countdown.

@AidenBell "Sequential UID set generation for MySQL Char() or other Field. The Final Battle." See, so much better!

6:02 PM

@GeorgeMarian Yeah, that started playing in my head as soon as I read the question title. :P

@GeorgeMarian - Don't tempt him, he will do it, complete with flashing dynamic battle scenes using Flash and reading the answers to auto-animate a fisticuffs

lol

Cries at Uncaught Exception in live logs

Damn it....I should bought PC speakers instead of "wasting" money on "entertainment."

@radp How can those game-poly characters express such depth, philosophy and ironic comedy in their 2-triangle faces?

6:04 PM

I need something to drive that crap outta my head and I really don't feel like listening to the tin-can speakers built into my monitor.

@GeorgeMarian - im saving for:

amazon.co.uk/Sennheiser-HD-650-Reference-Headphone/dp/…

@AidenBell Haven't you played Half Life 2?

@radp - The only game I have ever played and will ever play is Q3A

amazon.co.uk/Sennheiser-Reference-Class-Wired-Headphones/dp/…

£1k ... hmmm ...

Actually, those headphones are better than my ears ... so no

Nice. That's a good company. I have a pair of their earbuds.

Like putting an core i9 with 256mb ram

6:11 PM

This is what I'm planning on getting:

amazon.com/JBL-Creature-III-Self-Powered-Multimedia/dp/…

I'm not exactly happy to see that the price has gone back up though. Granted, it's only $3 or so. heh

@GeorgeMarian - I have that in white

@AidenBell Then play HL2 to get your answer.

amazon.co.uk/Cambridge-SoundWorks-Desktop-Theater-DTT2200/dp/…

@AidenBell Someone here recommended them. (Was it @radp?)

Mine, and they are over 10 years old. Still going.

@GeorgeMarian - yea, they [the JBL] are alright, though the conductive volume control button gets annoying. Good for films, games etc not prog-rock however

6:13 PM

Yah, I was considering a set of Logitech 5.1 speakers. But the reviews were kinda...meh.

@AidenBell Doesn't let you change the volume quickly, huh?

@GeorgeMarian - no, it just isn't a button, it is a little metal round thing that senses touch and 'steps' in volume making small changes a system-volume job

@AidenBell Hmm....that could drive me nuts.

Though I need a new:

After 10+ years, the only thing wrong with my speakers

amazon.co.uk/M-Audio-Studiophile-Av30-Desktop-Speakers/dp/…

@AidenBell Aww...no sub? How will I annoy my neighbors if their ceiling isn't pounding? :)

@GeorgeMarian - You won't need a separate sub

6:21 PM

Which reminds me...the next time they wake me w/ their racket I should plug in the electric guitar...

Though you could blast the arteries off your own heart with something like:

amazon.co.uk/Wharfdale-WHARFEDALE-DIAMOND-SW150-SUBWOOFER/dp/…

lol

brb

150 watts?

@AidenBell Yah, now that I've skimmed the description, they do sound like a great pair of speakers.

@GeorgeMarian nope

6:43 PM

sighs

Jeff's obsession with the Google searchability of questions annoys me. Yes, that's very important for bringing in new traffic, and the majority of questions on the site should be modeled in such a way that they act as good candidates for that process. However, some questions which are not searchable don't automatically become worthless. I, as a member of the community, am interested in being exposed to new things, and those questions happen to do just that.

@TimStone - If google is the default exception handler, SO is trying to catch ProgrammingQuestion exceptions.

Though I disagree with this Google obsession from a philosophical point of view, though not a commercial one

This is more to do with Gaming, but yeah. :P

yea

Also, new rule.

Jeff has to have more than one example.

Posting the same link ten times does nothing to convince me. :P

lol

6:51 PM

(though in this case I agree with his concerns anyway, just not that there's an actual problem at this moment in time)

Popular Demand

@TimStone What case?

Also, something tells me we'll be seeing a lot of Feeds soon.

Q: What is the point of "help me remember this game" questions?

-3

For example, Help me identify these two old games from before I knew English well (with “screenshots”). What value does this question have to anyone else on the planet, other than the one person who asked? In other words, what internet user is going to be searching for and finding this informati...

discussion allowed-questions questions identify-this-game

What is Feeds doing? :P

Popular Demand

@TimStone Looking up all those Amazon oneboxes after they disappear.

Ah, right.

7:13 PM

@radp - Thanks bud. Now I am reading Concerned from the start. And I thought things couldn't get worse

@AidenBell If it helps, the comic's been finished. Once you get to the end, that's it.

Q: Site Logos Not Readable on OData

@radp - it helps marginally lol

LMAO

Chacha102

8:17 PM

0

If you look at some of the logos on http://odata.stackexchange.com/, specifically Photography and AskUbuntu, you'll see the problem. These logos were meant for dark backgrounds (the site name is white), however OData has a white background, making them invisible.

10:15 PM

0

Q: How to find security-leak after a skynet intrusion?

Some days ago, the server of a friend had an intrusion. The attack installed a new SSH daemon that let any valid account in, without providing a valid password. After login, each account automatically got root permissions and the server greeted as follows: The attack also removed the syslog en...

linux security debian debian-etch intrusion-detection

WE DIDN'T LISTEN!

10:42 PM

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian Kernighan

Hah ;)

Moshe

11:11 PM

What are the requirements to fulfill a commitment on Area 51?

@Moshe Be active.

I think hard numbers haven't been released to prevent gaming.

Nite.

Moshe

11:30 PM

@radp - Gaming?

Gaming the system

Gaming the system can be defined as "[using] the rules and procedures meant to protect a system in order, instead, to manipulate the system for [a] desired outcome". According to James Rieley, structures in organisations (both explicit and implicit policies and procedures, stated goals, and mental models) drive behaviours that are detrimental to long-term organisational success. See also *Rules lawyer *Letter and spirit of the law References