Photo.SE

but i'm not too comfortable with a dark theme for main site because i just know some people would complain about readability. our site differs from LR because

in LR, you don't read long passage of text

jrista

sure, however look at dpreview.com

Jin

it's for photo manipulation, where on our site, it's mostly for reading.

jrista

6:15 AM

monster photography site

lots of text

very dark

Jin

yeah i saw those. i'm just not sure how a total dark theme would do. that's why i opted the dark theme for meta

jrista

I do think, as photographers, such people are used to dark sites, forums, and tools

it doesn't have to be black really

Jin

regarding your post: i like doctype.com too, but it's not running on SO's engine

jrista

a dark gray complimented with black and lighter gray

@Jin yeah, I figured. :(

Jin

another site you may like, that's runs on SE1.0 is creativequery.com

i like its design

jrista

6:17 AM

ah well, that was kind of fringe anyway :P

Jin

i agree with all the whitespace issues you talked about, but there's not a lot i can do about that.

because all of SE's sites run off SO's html and they're built automatically per deploy

jrista

@Jin too many primary colors for me

I think muted colors work better for a photography site, light or dark

Jin

yes. that's what i went with mostly for my design

you said you liked the slim header on doctype, but on their question view page, their header is rather thick

jrista

@Jin is it not possible to add margin around the divs that denote each topic?

@Jin well, liked the design of doctype, like the slim header of deviantart.com

Jin

@jrista sure. i can do that. but i thought one of your complaint was you didn't want to scroll for content?

jrista

6:18 AM

Scroll through a header.

so, when it comes to headers

from a design perspective

Jin

with all these SE site designs, the choices are rather limited. I'm doing a css zen garden exercise on them, but i can't change the content on/off too much.

jrista

I LOVE really fat headers, even 50% headers, on a home page

a single page that has lots of header, often with some content elements that cross the border

litmus.com

that has a great header

its only on the main page though, it shrinks on all the other pages

their header is still large, but from a design perspective, it also fits very nicely

Jin

that header height is almost hte same as the one i have? slightly less. i thin the main problem here isn't about exact pixel height, it comes down to how you feel. i do agree the content section is a bit cramped

jrista

there is sparse content, and the pages are not vertically super long

@Jin exactly

problem is, I love the photo rotator concept

so its a catch 22

Jin

i think what i can do is, increase the white spacing in the content section

if you look at most photography forums, they have all these huge ad banners on the top anyways

so i don't think the scrolling is a big issue.

jrista

6:22 AM

I think a darker theme would lend itself MUCH better to a fat header. Looking at litmus, maybe a dark header, with a lighter body. That would help create a more concrete division between the two areas, which I think would be more pleasing.

Jin

how about...

for hte main site, i make the header section much darker?

jrista

yeah!

Jin

the contrast would make it look skinner, and have a clear distinction too.

jrista

I think design wise that would be MUCH better.

@Jin yup, I think thats a great start

Jin

i definitely don't want you to think i'm dictating the design here. my choices are rather limited.

jrista

6:23 AM

:D

Jin

and this is your site, so i definitely want you to have a design that you're happy with.

jrista

@Jin yeah, I know. Kind of a bummer. I know they wanted to go for consistency, but for those of us in the core group, it feels so limiting.

and even more-so for me

Jin

i wanted to give photography site a unique design, and it's pretty different from the rest of the SE sites i've done

jrista

since I LOVE graphic design, and have been thinking about options for quite some time

@Jin Thanks. :)

how many elements of the design are images?

Jin

let's see...

the logo

jrista

6:25 AM

for example, the boxes for the number of answers in each topic row?

Jin

the dotted patter in the photo description area (which is the system message box)

boxes for numbers are css

jrista

is it possible to use an image background for those, so we could have a nice, rounded, soft gradient "button" for them?

I'm just curious how much we can do with CSS

Jin

we can do a lot..

jrista

box model, background images, etc.

Jin

but since i'm not using gradient anywhere else, the whole site has a flat UI so i didn't use it

btw, lemme know what you think about this:

the top nav links: question, tags etc

the ON state is white background

but i'm thinking onhover, each one of them will have a different background color

red, yellow, green, blue, magenta

jrista

6:27 AM

are these in the header, or below it?

Jin

and i can use css transition to fade them out

so it's like, discovering colors while you hover over them.

which browser are you using?

jrista

rust, goldenrod, spring green, sky blue, cherry pink

:P

muted ;)

I am a big Opera fan

are you thinking this in combination with a dark header?

or still thinking a light header?

Jin

i'll use a darker header

i was thinking the hover state of the main nav links

they'll each have a different color

so when you mouse over the links, it's like seeing a color swatch

jrista

with a dark header, if these links are in the header like in your current design, it might be nice to start out with a light light gray, and on hover, fade the text into one of those colors, rather than the background. And maybe put a dotted border around the hovered link

Jin

ok i'll play around. also keep in mind, from experience i tweak the site a lot after launch

jrista

6:30 AM

I like the idea

Jin

so nothing's final.

jrista

k

dark header, fading links

good stuff :)

Jin

from launching previous SE sites, what i learned is, when I post my design concept on Meta, not a lot users comment

mostly because they don't visit meta often

but once the design goes live, they're very vocal.

jrista

maybe a dark gray header, white body, medium gray footer

Jin

sounds good.

in fact, lemme show you how it looks with a darker header

jrista

6:31 AM

do you have some preview site you work with to test it out?

creative query's site is nice

its colors work well with their design

Jin

we have a dev server. but what i just uploaded is some changes in photoshop

jrista

@Jin Love it!

Jin

i'll add more padding to each question block

jrista

the contrast between the header and the body definitely helps

Jin

so they have more breathing room

also, i'll make sure to increase the line-height in the body text too.

jrista

6:35 AM

maybe make the very top bar, with the stackexchange dropdown and user info black?

@Jin perfect

Jin

sure. would be ok if the Meta is still an inverted theme?

jrista

the green boxes in the body might do well with a rust color, or some other muted, earthy color

Jin

but i think instead of using pitch black, i'll try to make it look more like LR's color scheme

ok

jrista

@Jin Hmm...not sure. yeah, a more LR-like scheme would be nice for meta, I think.,

like, make the body area a gray color, and maybe use a darker gray for the footer?

I like the square dots for badges

Jin

i'm thinking of a dark gray

almost like the one i just used for the main site's header

jrista

6:37 AM

yeah, Ithink that would be nice

Jin

and body text won't be #fff

it will be an off white, so it's not too harsh

i find DPreview's contrast way too high

jrista

k

Jin

i know people read it because they have good content, so they put up with it

jrista

@Jin me too, definitely too high. I wish they would use a light light gray for their text, and maybe a dark gray rather than black for their background

Jin

Jeff normally likes to compact stuff on SO.. that's why there's not a lot of white space

but i think the nature of the photo site, as you said is totally different from SO's audience and usage

jrista

6:39 AM

yeah

Jin

so I don't think I should go by the typical rules

jrista

were more artistic ;)

Jin

i often remind him that, he's not the user of these SE sites, you guys are

cool. i'll work on this all night tonight. we're shooting for launch tomorrow at 3pm EST

jrista

he really doesnt use them much, does he?

I see him in the teachers lounge sometimes

but not much other than that

Jin

well he uses some of them, webapps, webmasters etc

jrista

6:41 AM

@Jin sweet! :D

Jin

but i doubt he uses the photo site

jrista

well, thanks for all the work

I'm pretty excited

its been almost 4 months now

Jin

you're welcome. I'm not sure how to reply to your post on meta

jrista

pretty nice to be going live

eh, you don't have to

Jin

yeah thanks for the patience. we're pretty swamped

jrista

6:41 AM

I actually might delete it

since we chatted here

Jin

yeah. i was hoping to catch you here, and i'm glad i did.

jrista

me too :)

Jin

after the site launches, i'd like to work out some details about the weekly photo thread

jrista

ok, deleted that post, since it is pretty irrelevant now

Jin

and see what's the fairest way to select the weekly photo

jrista

6:42 AM

@Jin yeah, we will probably need to experiment a little

Jin

if we do it weekly, that's only 52 photos per year

jrista

my worry is there won't really be enough in the way of submissions in the long run

Jin

weekly is just my initial idea.. but it can be whatever.

we'll see. i think we may get more.. the link "submit yours" really drives more users to meta

jrista

it will probably be a thing of interest initially, but without any way to pin topics

i think each weeks thread will get lost as time moves forward

Jin

also, so far on photosite, we don't really have a "show 'n tell" type of thread you see on most photo forums

jrista

6:43 AM

yeah

well, sounds good Jin

Jin

people love seeing pictures

jrista

thanks for listening to me :)

Jin

I used to participate on a lot of Flickr forums. one thing I love about them is they have a good mix of Q&A and show case type of threads

jrista

its heading on 1am here, and I gotta be at work tomorrow AM

Jin

it's 2:44am here :)

i'll be up until the site goes live

jrista

6:44 AM

@Jin I'm a bit of a noob on flickr. I never knew how big it was until recently. I'm still finding my way around it.

@Jin have fun :)

Jin

what camera do you use?

flickr.com/groups/nikondigitallearningcenter/discuss is one of my fav groups

jrista

I use a Canon 450D right now. Its become a real limiting factor for my work, though, and I am desperately awaiting the Canon 5D Mark III. I have a bunch of L-series lenses though: 16-35mm L II, 100-400mm L, 24-105mm L, and soon, hopefully, the 50mm f/1.2 L

I really can't say how limiting an APS-C sensor is for a landscape photographer. It makes it so difficult to get wide angle shots.

Jin

flickr.com/groups/canon450d/discuss that's the group for your camera

jrista

so flicker also has forums?

Jin

flickr group has the most pleasant people i've ever seen on the internet

yep.

each group has an "image pool" and a "forum"

not all groups' forums are active though

jrista

6:48 AM

@Jin heh, some do...someone linked me to a critique group on flicker...it was one of the more brutal places I'd been to on the net...almost as bad as 4chan

Jin

oh yeah, i mentally blocked those forums out of my head.

jrista

lol

they were so bad

Jin

anyway, i'm excited for the photo site. look for the launch around 3pm EST.

jrista

you know, thats an area where Jeff and crew might be able to expand into.

a system that would support critique forums

or something like that

Jin

yeah

jrista

6:49 AM

the mods here on photo.se discuss how to do photo critiques regularly. We've thought about using this chat, but haven't figured out how to properly moderate it yet.

Jin

oh btw, the photo chat room will have its own skin also

after site launches

jrista

oh, nice :)

Jin

but it may not look too different from this room now..

jrista

so, will we still need to keep someone logged in here to prevent it from being archived?

we had started a couple of these

Jin

i'm not sure how that works.

i'll ask the chatroom devs

jrista

6:51 AM

I finally just decided to stay logged in at all times to prevent it from being tombstoned

k

well, one last suggestion before I head to bed

Jin

sure

jrista

if you can, perhaps a very light bokeh effect in the background of the dark gray header. It could be monochromatic, just something to give a little texture to it. Similar to the litmus header

if the very top bar above the header was black

Jin

btw, if i make the top bar black, what color should i make the alert dropdown box? i was going to make that black

jrista

I think that would create a fantastic design

@Jin hmm....

the one that says "stack exchange"?

Jin

no

the one that says "you've gained XXX badge etc"

it only happens in some occasions

jrista

6:53 AM

ooh

how about rust colored?

maybe use rust as a highlight color

used for the green boxes, the alert dropdown, etc?

Jin

orange?

something orange is a good color to go with black/white

jrista

or that, like the orange box you have at the bottom right now?

with the "Looking for more? ..."

yeah, I think that would work

Jin

that's a light yellow

i was thinking more orangier. not as orange as stackoverflow's

i'll see if i can work in that bokeh effect. there's a lot going on in the header already

jrista

hmm, it looks orange to me

color calibrated screen?

Jin

also i'll have to check the css feasibility too. right now i'm using the rotator image as the background image for the header section

jrista

6:56 AM

if not...you might want to calibrate it. We photographers tend to be rather obsessive about our color accuracy. ;)

@Jin ah, ok

Jin

the hex for the bgcolor of that box is #f8edc7

jrista

definitely more of an orange tint than a yellow on a calibrated screen

Jin

ok

jrista

I generally use #ffffcc as a light yellow

if you want to see what I'm basing that opinion on

thing about a calibrated screen, is we tend to have our brightness down quite a ways

my screen can pump out 400mcd, but its currently at 85mcd

that ffffcc looks almost white on a full-brightness screen

but calibrated, it looks quite yellow

Jin

i've realized gamma no longer matters when creating these sites(exception for photography site maybe)

you'd be surprised how many of our users use a washed up lcd screen

jrista

6:59 AM

yeah, we are kind of a box of exceptions here :)

oh, believe me, I am aware. Where I work, we have more managers than software developers.

Jin

the Math people had some major problem with the contrast of the design

i had to tweak a bunch

jrista

Every one of them has an ancient laptop with horrid screens and super bright, bleached colors. YEch.

I have a couple ideas for our title and the icon next to it.

would you mind if I poked around photoshop for a while, and sent in some options?

Jin

yeah sure

you mean the logo?

jrista

@Jin ty :)

yeah, the logo

Jin

ok

jrista

7:01 AM

maybe a way to factor in a second image each week

I'll mess wit hit....might be something you would have to throw in after the site goes live

well, 1am

Jin

yeah. keep in mind though, the description box is really site's sysmte message box

we can't really have 2 description boxes.

jrista

very nice meeting and chatting, Jin. :) Best of luck with the release. I may not be able to be around for it, as it'll be 1am during my day tomorrow, and I tend to be pretty busy around that time.

Jin

ok

jrista

nite

Jin

ttyl, thanks for the input, glad we worked it out.

jrista

7:07 AM

np :)