If I can’t be trusted to delete “ephemeral” content, I probably shouldn’t be trusted to post it. Either comments are important content or they’re not. You can’t have your cake and eat it to. And I don’t care whether the cat is alive or dead, the problem is that half the folks here are trying to feed it and the other half are trying to bury it. It shouldn’t be both simultaneously.

@ColleenV Well, actually, I agree on not trusting users to post useful comments in the first place: I have seen too many that weren't useful even seconds after posting. I guess that's why 'comment everywhere' is a privilege... If it weren't there would probably be even more unuseful comments around. Better to get that at the root though, with something like renaming comments to 'suggest improvements', than just allowing unlimited cleanup of things you shouldn't have posted in the first place.

If there is this much complexity to deleting content that is designed to be transient, the system is broken and needs to be fixed. That’s my entire point. The comment system’s design is outdated and is a leech sucking away time and energy across the network. I am not saying we shouldn’t be able to comment on things; I think interaction is important. I’m not supporting “chit-chat” under posts either. I want a system that is designed to meet our current needs, not one we’re constantly fighting to try to make work.

@ColleenV People are trusted to delete their own comments, within limits. Just like people are allowed to delete their own posts, within limits... There's actually not much difference in the tools that can be used on comments and posts, except for the fact that the limits are different (e.g. editing a comment is possible for a certain amount of time, since editing one doesn't bump the post. The limit is there to avoid abuse). Those differences are there because the purposes of posts and comments are different, and to be honest, that difference is what makes these sites better, not worse.

If comments are treated as if they are just like other content, why can’t they be undeleted? Why am I not notified if a mod edits them? I’m not arguing that deletions shouldn’t be rate limited. I’m complaining about the arbitrariness of when comments are treated as if they are important and when they aren’t, and how it’s usually the owner of the comment that gets the short end of the stick. And yes, I do understand the quixotic nature of what I’m trying to do.

@ColleenV I don't think it's the owner of the comment that always gets the short end of the stick: If you delete your own post, a moderator can undelete it. If you delete your own comment, a moderator can't undelete it. Again, being unable to delete comments on more than 20 posts isn't arbitrarily treating comments like they are always important, it's just a measure to prevent abuse.

Just like how I might run into some limits if I were to use Tor, you being blocked from deleting more comments is just that: a measure implemented to prevent a mess. It's not arbitrary at all, and has nothing to do with whether the comments are or are not important/useful/no longer needed at the moment you want to delete them.

You’re still focused specifically on deletions, when I’m talking about the system in general. Moderators get to decide which comments are valuable 99% of the time, end of story. If you don’t agree with the deletions, or edits mods made, too bad. You get the “comments are temporary” speech or a lecture about being nice, and, icing on the cake, you can’t even see your deleted comments or what edits were made. I’ve been on both sides of that, so don’t take that as “mods are bad”. I’m trying to explain how arbitrary it is. You’ve seen the complaints, you know how pissed off some users get.

@ColleenV I'm not sure we get to decide what comments are valuable all that much. The system is pretty specific on that, there's not much decision making involved at all. It's just a matter of 'does this follow the rules or not'. If you end up making the argument that comments are temporary, then yes, users are going to argue.

That's why you make the argument that comments are meant for suggesting improvements to a post, instead of saying 'well they're all just temporary anyways'.

And yes, I know how pissed off some users get when comments that weren't asking for clarification or suggesting improvements are deleted. But that's the only flaw I see in the current system: It doesn't educate or force users to use comments appropriately in the first place.

As for editing comments... of all the comments I moderated, maybe 0.001 percent consisted of edits to comments. Usually, that was done upon request of the author of the comment too, to fix something like a spelling error that was hugely annoying them. Otherwise, well... if someone really has to be rude, I've always just deleted the entire comment instead of editing: They can repost a useful one once they're no longer willing to be rude.

In short: I don't really see a very great need for an edit history or notifications there, because the edits I'm making are already known to the person I'm making them for.

I'm curious to see how you're talking about the 'system in general' though, because your question specifically asks about deletions.

@ColleenV I agree that the comments system is outdated and needs some work. You might want to edit the question (especially the title) to focus more on how "the comments system is broken" and less on the deletion issue. Obviously, keep the deletion issue as part of it in order not to change the question entirely. But otherwise, I think most people would focus on deletions in their replies (because that's what the question seems to focus on).

Hey y’all I can’t really give this conversation the attention it deserves right now, I will check in later @Tinkeringbell

@ColleenV Sure! I'm about to drop off to bed soon anyways :)