You may want to mention the retweet while not directly aimed at you, I think that it also potentially hurts you.

@StrongBad thanks. I'm considering it, trying to balance between being concise (at the cost of some off-site activity) and covering all the key points.

@MonicaCellio that is your choice. You have been wronged in a number of ways and wasn't sure if it slipped your mind. You should be aware that I asked on the private Teams site (which means I think I can say it) if SE was ever going to deal with issues 2-5 and the retweet.

Thanks @StrongBad; I appreciate the suggestion and had in fact lost track of it. I'm still thinking. And thanks for letting me know that you're pushing behind the scenes on some of these points! I appreciate the support.

Monica, I sincerely recommend that you get a lawyer, if you already didn't. It is already way out-of-control and from what I've seen until now in public, they really don't want to talk to you. I guess that what they really would like to do now is to get you suspended, banned and having your account deleted to never come back, and the only thing that prevents them from doing that is that it does not really need to be a big genius to perceive that it would be shooting themselves in their feet with a bazooka.

If I were you, I would just move on. As hard as it sounds, forgetting SE exists and focus on other things in your life (such as family, children. etc.) would be much better for your health. I don't think this is a battle you can win. The chances of being reinstated as mod are close to zero, and even if you will be reinstated, they will never forget you this. Never. Suing them will harm your health even more probably. I don't this whole thing worth it. It's just a site. There are many other things in life than being a mod on SE. Think of what you were doing if never joined SE in the first place

@DavidArenburg It's also about the slander. Everything on the internet is visible, and since Monica is here under her own name, any prospective employers would run into the slanderous posts first.

As this is now linked on the front page of SO, a lot of people (like me) will hear about this for the first time from this post. Is there a short explanation somewhere what this is about?

@Gloweye If slander this is all about, then I guess suing them is the solution. All the rest is just waste of time.

@RemcoGerlich You can start at Stack Overflow Inc., sinat chinam, and the goat for Azazel, then continue with Firing mods and forced relicensing: is Stack Exchange still interested in cooperating with the community?

Monica (and @StrongBad), the retweet is the one thing in all this mess that does seem to have been (silently) taken down a few days ago. Not that this excuses posting it, but you know, small mercies.

@terdon how was it retracted?

@Script47 My bad, I should have said deleted or taken down, not retracted (fixed now). I didn't mean it had been officially retracted, only that I don't see it any more so I guess it was deleted.

Monica, I believe the company has done you wrong and owes more than one (public) apology. They made mistakes and it's indecent not to admit to them. I feel ashamed of them. But the relation between the company and you cannot be mended anymore. I would not even pursue any moderator re-instantiation in your place. Whether they were right or wrong in firing you, the trust between them and you is destroyed forever and that's the end of it. Maybe moving on is the wiser choice now. I wish though that they would really apologize for everything they did wrong, especially the interview.

You can still stay as a user and we here know what happened (at least part of it) and will remember it. There are or will be other companies with similar business models. But the past will not come back, no matter what.

The events around your dismissal and the litany of malresponses from SE couldn't be more confusing, opaque and intrinsically morally wrong than that of a Kafka novel.

I feel sorry for you but reading all this I have a foreboding that maybe fighting this case hurts your reputation even more. If, for instance, you fear that this affair here might be a reason for an employer not to employ you, then I doubt that adding the apparent struggle — even if it leads to a proper reinstatement of your person in SE, a decent apology from SE, etc. — will let you appear as a person one would like to employ. Unless you strive for a position where fighting is essential (as a lawyer, for instance). You are in a no-win situation here. Sometimes it's best to accept and move on.

(continued) Or at least distance yourself from the fight by handing it to some lawyer who does the fighting for you, so you don't appear so much. I understand that you are trying to apply pressure on SE by staying in the open as good as you can and to gather support from the community (and that might work). But it will always let you appear to have the spirit for such fights. If you pass it to a lawyer instead, it never appears so personal and doesn't give anybody the feeling that you emotionally might be of the fighting-type.

The absolute insanity of all this is that from all the facts we can gather as outsiders from across the web, Monica may be very opinionated about a certain aspect of English grammar (perhaps too much so), but other than that seems more progressive and more of an actual real-world "trans ally" than most of the rest of us. She DEFINITELY doesn't come across like someone who should have to defend herself against accusations of transphobia. Sigh.

My 2¢ is that IF a public statement is made, it should be made on MSE AND the blog to give it the most visibility.

I really wish people would not say things like "just sue them" or "just let a lawyer handle it." I don't know Monica's financial situation but, when a person goes against a large corporation (even when they're 100% in the right by anyone's standards), it tends to ruin them financially. It might be the stereotype of America to sue but the reality is that corporations have the money to bury people in paperwork and that alone bankrupts them. This is not a viable solution.

@MonicaCellio If you decide to got the lawyer route, please create a crowd funding. I would be happy to pitch in.

@Cyn In addition, in principle, this is a matter that should have been, and still should be, handled by humans talking to each other. We all collaborate in this grand community and project together, which depends on ongoing, rich communications. Bringing lawyers into the mix naturally hampers communications and weighs them down with artificial consequences and limitations. Sometimes, that's necessary to get through a conflict, but it's costly in more than money. The same is true of whatever artificial constraint SEI has already placed on its staff's communications on this.

@IsaacMoses Yes. I still have hope that SE will do the right thing here and work with Monica to find a solution (which won't solve all the fractures in the community but will go a long long way towards normality). My hope gets smaller every week that passes though.

I agree with @vikingosegundo I would be willing to donate some money so Monica can sue SE if they don't apologize and retract the slander.

Interestingly, the entire genesis of this (at least publicly) was discussed at 32:00m on the #causeascene podcast from July 3, 2019. (The relevant part starts at 32 minutes in): hashtagcauseascene.com/podcast/sara-chipps (Was listening to that episode to get some insight into how all this came together and was surprised to hear that at 32minutes in).

@Luuklag easy for you to say, since it isn't your name the one that was defamed publicly

@GeorgeStocker interesting subheadline on the linked page, "The Strategic Disruption of the Status Quo in Technical Organizations, Communities, and Events". The last few months here on SE have certainly been disruptive (one might also say disrupting), even disregarding the COC changes and related issues...

I stand by my comment and answer to the MY Meta post. We’re here for you, Monica, and we will be to see this all the way through. I’m not quite as vocal on this issue as some others, but only because others have said what I’d like to much more eloquently than I could have. I hope my upvote and icon change, along with the rest of the community’s, stands in your favor. You have our full support.

@MonicaCellio thank you for that edit. I don't see that SE have a leg to stand on now. Not even the rickety, feeble, imaginary one they may have had until now. Once again, you have shown grace and class.

@GeorgeStocker Fascinating, especially the bit where she explains how they could draw the new policy themselves in no time, but decided instead to listen to the community to get it right. This podcast must have come from some alternate reality I guess.

@EmilJeřábek I had assumed they meant listening to the members of the community who needed this policy to be enacted, not to all members of the community in general.

@GeorgeStocker Yep, that's how I understood it. When handling a conflict between two parties, asking only one party how to resolve the situation is unlikely to find a mutually agreeable solution, and very likely to just backfire and have the opposite effect. Hearing from both parties in an open manner is far more likely to have a positive outcome.

@MonicaCellio If you decide to go for the legal route, please open a crowdfunding. I would love to help with this battle, and I'm sure at least a few others would do so too.

Don't you think it's a gain (or even a highlight) that you're already leading most of the community, having us respecting and believing in you whenever something is disputed, and voice or action supporting you? This is IMO a very rare opportunity amd the only other case I know is with Victoria Taylor. (no offense)

@Script47: 3¢: SE should send a retraction and a public apology to The Register and all the other media outlets that have repeated the libel.   (AND post it on MSE and the blog.)

@MonicaCellio I agree with the crowdfunding. I wouldn't mind pitching in. However, I'd like to just say that I'm sorry for what they've done to you are continuing to do. I hope you feel better soon.

Thanks @TheAnathema. On crowdfunding, I'd like to see this happen with somebody other than me running it, for clear transparency and also because I'm kind of bad at that sort of administration. I'd also like there to be a charity fallback: any funds not needed for legal stuff (e.g. because SE decided to actually work with me) go to a charity TBD that works on behalf of the Lavender community -- I'm thinking education, support services, and the like rather than legislative advocacy so it has worldwide benefit. If anyone wants to drive that or nominate charities, please get in touch.

@MonicaCellio I'd do it but I'm not eloquent enough or known enough to manage it with any trust from the community, and also sometimes people introduce crowdfunding as a way to exploit a situation. It's a wonderful idea - perhaps some sort of community vote outside of StackExchange's sphere of influence would be necessary, or wait for someone who knows they're the kind of individual with the trustworthiness and understanding from the community. I don't know of any crowdfunding platform that has a fallback but some let you keep what's been given and you can donate afterwards manually.

Flagging this for featuring. It has become increasingly apparent that the changes to how posts become [featured] were willfully timed prior to major changes.

@iBug it's not an opportunity I want. I don't want to be a lightning rod, a cause, or a rebel leader; I just want to be allowed to be me, the respected, respectful, and helpful community member and moderator that I was for years and years. The outpouring of support is gratifying, but I'd rather get Stack Overflow to address the problems and let me go back to my quieter corners of the network. Sigh...

@MonicaCellio - All I have to say is you go girl...As I will NOT be contributing anything but comments and lurking on this network...As I will not ever renew my teams PAID subscription: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/390444/…. As I will no longer use the SO talent / advertising which I paid 100s if not 1000s of dollars on. I will not only put forth the money I put into teams but I will put forth an additional sum X times that (x is pretty high) to help your case. It's time the bologna stops and we send a clear message.

The fact that they've done nothing to resolve your situation in a month is simply deplorable. Regardless of how these things affect SE as a "company" the actions of those that started this controversy and the lack of action from others since then is unacceptable. If SE wants people to keep giving them content for free, they need to treat them like people.

Can anyone explain why noone at SO the company is resigning over this fiasco? Why is it just the community moderators resigning? Did SO the company do nothing wrong?

@GeorgeStocker In that podcast from almost 4 months ago, Ms. Chipps says "one of our moderators was misgendering another moderator, and we do have a Code of Conduct but in [it] we don't have a clear message about not misgendering other people." Did I hear that right? Because it seems to clash with repeated statements about "violations of the current CoC".

@walen one could argue that to misgender someone, repeatedly, is not kind or respectful. The team added the pronoun amendment to make this concept clearer, so nobody could feign ignorance and they did it to cover their a$$es. Otherwise known as killing two birds with a stone.

@Mari-LouA One could also argue that using neutral language ("they" or username) is not misgendering and is actually one of the ways to be nice and so in line with the CoC, at least until a clarification was introduced about using stated pronouns being obligatory. Not that I agree.

@walen I responded to your comment that the statement in the podcast clashed with the reason for letting go of Monica because of the "violations of the current CoC". The old CoC said "Be kind and friendly" The new CoC now says "Be inclusive and respectful."

Lots of people here express their support by cheering you on in The Fight. I for one don't see a win here for you, only more suffering. I know it's hard, but you may want to consider if walking away isn't the most healthy option after all. That would not be cowardly, but sane. Sue for slander if you have to and let lawyers take the heat. But here, through the channels SO controls, given the collective mindset SO has demonstrated, there can not be any more success than with any of the countless moves for improvements in the last years. Whatever "success" would even mean here. Be safe!

@Kyralessa the world is a dark place. Since this started has been talk about a script that checks users for the existence of personal pronoun preferences on account pages and tries to find further personal information like employers, addresses etc. Doxxing is a thing these days and there are extremists on both sides of any argument. Concerns about physical safety may be overrated, but they are definitely real

a word of friendly caution, Monica. Observing some recent events I find it imaginable that some may try to somehow set up / pull you into cool-off suspension, with the purpose to further use it against you. I know you are very level headed and you probably already thread carefully but decided to warn you anyway to make sure that you are prepared to handle tricks like that

The sad thing is that they had, and ignored, many opportunities to save face, starting from day one. It seemed clear at first that there was a misunderstanding at the root of all this. Even if they were actually targeting me I would have gone along with the "misunderstanding" story to stop the community damage. It feels like it's too late for that now, though it's something we could talk about. Well, if they were actually willing to talk with me at all.

@MonicaCellio you are the strongest person I know, doing the right thing is hard. It would be so easy to just stop and let it all go. Plus all the local strains... I want to say how you inspire me, and encourage you to stick with it, but I can't find the words. My thoughts are with you several time per day.

@JamesJenkins thanks. And on local strains, yeah, having the one-month anniversary of SE's attack on me coincide with the one-year anniversary of a physical attack that could have killed me for my identity is doing weird things in my head. At least the latter attacker is in custody and can't hurt anyone else.

@Richard it's not an employment relationship, but in my experience the word also applies to dismissals of volunteers.

@Richard "Chances are, as a nonprofit manager, firing volunteers ranks very low on your list of job duties." one of the millions of hits on Google for 'can a volunteer be fired'

I've read read everything but stayed silent until now. @MonicaCellio, I stand with you, good luck getting the resolution you deserve.

I 100% support your demands. Having said that: "Stack Overflow is a private company and its representatives are free to treat users badly. " <- No, they are not, and we should accept this view. They will not be penalized by the US state and federal authorities for it, is what you meant to say.

that's bad. it's a bit late now for this suggestion but I strongly suggest not using your real name on the internet except for when it is absolutely necessary! (like making payments)

Just learned about this absurd story. As an avid reader and sincere lover of SO/SE since their own very inception, I'm utterly flabbergasted. You have my moral support - unfortunately, there isn't much I can do: not a mod, so I can't resign; not a great answerer, so "quitting" would have no effect. I can only say that from now on I'll access SO/SE only from the ad-blocked browser, so at least SO/SE won't get 1 cent from my visits.

Monica, probably you're already aware, but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, so: your firing and the ensuing shambles has its own subsection on the Wikipedia page for the SE network. I don't know if you're happy with the way you are described there, so just making sure you know about it.

I just read the blog by the founder and prior CEO. It sounds like they don't care one bit about the community; the main topic now is selling to enterprise, so, there's no chance any of these issues will be addressed or anyone being asked to resign from the company, because all of these community issues are non-issues to the business. joelonsoftware.com/2019/09/24/…

Have you considered taking this to court? IANAL, but it seems you may have grounds for a libel suit.

Given that SE's main response has been to repeatedly try to gaslight everyone involved, I don't exactly have high hopes for SE doing the right thing. Maybe it's time to talk to a lawyer.

Hi Monica, what can the average user like myself do to help you?

@Apollys there are some good suggestions here (see also the question and other answers). There's also now a GoFundMe page since it appears I've exhausted internal resolution paths.

This was not the SE I know when I first came to know about the SE. Lots of interesting meta discussions, community suggestions/feedback etc. All this vanished somewhere. Hope we will get our SE back like how it was in past. I can understand your feelings on this @Monica, be strong and don't loose patience.

@Randal'Thor Can you or somebody please edit to remove the "recalimthenet" link from the Wikipedia article? (My country blocks Wikipedia and Wikipedia blocks edits from my VPN service or I would do it myself). The article is rubbish from start to finish and misrepresents both sides egregiously. For example it says I resigned in protest of Monica's behavior! On the contrary I resigned in protest of her treatment. Linking it as a source in Wikipedia is just a disgrace. No facts, no truth, just click-bait and FUD.

@MonicaCellio Seems like your GoFundMe page hit its goal! We're with you, Monica. (Just donated to it, too)

@Caleb I'd remove it but that being Wikipedia, I'd need a 3rd party source to support the claim (which I agree with) that the article is rubbish. Do you have an alternate link I may add instead?

@gerrit The "firing mods" link to meta here already referenced (currently 25) supports the claim being referenced of other mods quitting. The reclaimthenet link adds absolutely nothing in the way of evidence to the first hand links already present. Whoever added it should be banned from adding citations.

@MonicaCellio I would update your GoFundMe goal immediately. You lose steam when people see you've already met the goal, and $5000 is highly unlikely to get any response from SE. I'd recommend $50,000 to start.

@DeNovo an update will be coming soon; waiting on some additional cost info from the lawyers.

@MonicaCellio I really wouldn't wait. You're sitting at goal met during what would otherwise be your most effective fundraising time.

@DeNovo good point, and unless something very surprising happens costs will go up, so I've gone ahead and raised it now. I'll raise it more as we go, as more information becomes available.

Good on you. The company's continued behaviour is abhorrent. Shame the GoFundMe link isn't more prominent, but I see why you wouldn't want to put it in the post itself.

Does anyone have a Twitter account and would be willing to Tweet the GoFundMe page at Joel Spolsky for comment? Maybe even get a donation.

@GershomMaes too late to claim first, but here's the GoFundMe link. Thanks!

JL2210 I gave them a month and many overtures. They have refused to talk with me, have failed to even tell me what specifically they say I did, and have given me no path to resolving the ongoing defamation. I don't think it's twisting the knife to lay out the complaint and expected resolution clearly.

The last thing that should be done is giving them time or space. This could have been fixed in an hour. Instead, they double-downed on their mistake. Then triple-downed. In negotiations, you always have to give the other party a beneficial way out, but they have that: They offer reinstatement with a public apology and Monica offers a signed waiver not to sue at a future date. That would benefit SO's credibility, not damage it.

@MonicaCellio I know you're looking for (or already in contact with) an attorney. I highly suggest you take a look at this post — you may very well be owed wages.

@jhpratt or at least worker protections, with is the salient point here. Thanks for the link!

Hi @Monica, I have a question about some confusion I am having with regards to these timelines. I didn't see it addressed here in your question. In the podcast Sara mentions that a "moderator was misgendering another moderator" at 32:22, which is claimed as a reference to you. In your mi yodeya post and elsewhere you state that you were seeking clarification on whether or not you could "write in a gender-neutral way". Were those related? Is the podcast claim false?

@TravisJ I'm not aware of anything I did involving gender at all in proximity to that podcast. It sounded like she was describing something that had happened recently; as best I recall my most-recent activity involving pronouns was in January/February on the team, where we were talking about what the policy should be. I didn't misgender anybody there or, to my knowledge, at all. Some people are claiming that failing to gender people (e.g. avoiding pronouns entirely) is "misgendering"; I don't know if Sara is one of the people who holds that IMO faulty opinion.

@MonicaCellio - Thank you for clearing that up for me. It was really the only confusion I had here. At this point, to be honest, I cannot grasp why these actions were taken against you. It seems abhorrent. I wish you all the best.

Another day, another fundraising goal reached! @MonicaCellio, you might want to consider upping it again, assuming you anticipate the need for more.

@NateS-ReinstateMonica I'll have a better idea on that front tomorrow.

Could this be the beginning of the end of StackOverflow?

@HankyPanky No. This is not the first time the company has fired elected moderators, it's just the first time that they've also spoken to the press and named the moderator. The beginning was years ago.

Streisand effect, level 3000; I'd hire you. Or you could create a website called Stack Defect and make a bunch of money. Carpe diem.

@JennyDReinstateMonica - Is there a list of firings you could link us to? If not, a Q and A would be helpful. To get the context for what happened.

@MonicaCellio Hey - Is there a way to bring the guys on Law.SE to help us with this?

@aparente001 Unfortunately I have no such list, but I was active at [sf.se] when HopelessNoob was fired as moderator. See also Shog9's explanation, and lots of other questions around that period. It is also noticeable that most of the people active at that point have by now very little activity on the site; this incident is part of the reason for several of them.

I've just got to chime in to say it is wonderful watching the gofundme soar. It's wonderful to see that so many individuals understand what's right in this situation.

I find it extremely surprising that, having retained a lawyer to sue SE, that your lawyer hasn't told you to immediately stop interacting with the site.

Don't use this site with your real name, never. Harming every body reputation, though trolls and bad management, it's everything that this site can do.

I find it amazing that SE would rather face a lawsuit than to retract/reinstate.

Well unfortunately @MonicaCellio, I wouldn't put too much faith in having any help from most of the other moderators right now. They're all interested in power, not fixing anything. Take an interesting note to those that quit moderation in support of you only to find some cheap excuse to come back. It's the power of moderation that became their identity, and they don't want to lose that. YOU on the other hand were trying to solve the problem; something all moderators should pay attention to.

@pacoverflow Never underestimate hubris.

Beware that SE may remove links to GoFundMe campaigns against it.

I made the same point as you did regarding Point #9 asking SE to either point out what part of the new Code of Conduct you violated or, if they're unable to do that, explain whether they intend to reinstate you. I don't have much confidence in a reply, though.

Monica, I have been absent for about two years so you may not remember me (I killed mos eisley in SF&f more than once), but I can't believe what I am hearing. They lost perhaps the best mod on the network, one who is unfailingly fair, compassionate, decent, kind, and helpful. I'm absolutely disgusted and all my love and support is yours. You are the best they had and you deserve compensation, but THEY don't deserve YOU. La'chaim.

@JL2210 not allowed. Also not sure how doing so would help. The problem has largely been absence of email (or any other communication) from SE.

The suit is about defamation, the first of the two things I called for here. That's legally actionable. You can learn more by Googling "Monica Cellio GoFundMe".

It has caused issues. I can't talk about it.

"A representative of the company... immediately (within seconds) announcing my firing to a large audience" You might want to clarify where that announcement took place, even if you can not or do not want to add a link to it. It looks odd, given that you have links as citations for your other statements. Was it in the TL?

@Raedwald TL, so no link.