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@JonEricson I do my best to put aside my feelings (annoyance or any other kind) when someone points out an improvement to make. You can't expect everyone to tip toe around every possible feeling you might have; at some point above them being actively rude, you have to assume good faith and listen to the point the other person is actually making.
 
In an ideal world, sure. But on Stack Overflow good users are often berated for answering easy questions. Or told they are doing it for the rep. Or accused of being lazy when they are donating their free time. New users get it way worse, of course, but the safe assumption is a comment like that is building a case for closing your question.
 
A comment suggesting a specific tag edit is building a case for closing the question?
 
I spoke with a 50k+ user who isn't answering questions anymore because they answered a question and were told not to. How does that help reduce bad questions?
 
I would assume a comment suggesting specific edits of any kind is just looking to improve it.
 
12:07 AM
(This was on Thursday.)
@jpmc26 "Did you test . . . ?" could be.
 
I don't think it can in the context of suggesting the specific edit that needs to be made if the answer is, "No."
 
It often implies "You didn't do your research."
 
In fact, the situation would have been easier if wim had just said, "No, I didn't." Then I would have just changed the tags to include and there wouldn't have been any debate about what the question was about.
 
I don't think there is a debate about what the question is about. Even if there were, the answer is quite clear.
To be clear, a lot of this is the result of a close system that hasn't kept up with the question rate. It's needed an overhaul for years. Right now it just brings more eyes to junky questions. And that makes people feel like the thing to do is have higher standards. Doesn't help, but it feels like helping.
 
I visit questions almost exclusively from the home page.
Well, that and when searching for information I need.
 
12:16 AM
The programmer who doesn't read the documentation isn't going to read the comments under some other question advocating rigor. Most people have learned to scroll past comments to get to the useful part of the page: answers.
@jpmc26 You might be happier with custom question lists.
 
I can't think of any criteria that would lead to me seeing a good percentage of decent questions.
Even most of the ones I've answered this year I've thought were fairly poor. I just couldn't stand the problems with the other answers and wanted to give decent info to the author rather than let them get misinformed or put on the wrong track.
 
I appreciate that. Both your efforts and the questions you are dealing with. I'm not sure we can fix the problem, but for the first time in several years I feel good we are at least trying. (In years past we'd declare victory on the ask wizard. Now we are still working on it.)
 
Even on questions where I downvote or close vote, I typically try to leave some kind of comment to put them on track toward the best solution.
I don't know whether that's good or bad. On the one hand, hopefully it sometimes saves them some trouble and leads them to write better software. On the other, it might encourage them to keep asking without improving, especially since the questions typically don't garner more down or close votes.
@JonEricson Since I can't see deleted comments, would you mind checking if there's any reference to one particular implementation not giving 314159 for the hash? I'd like to know if I'm remembering incorrectly or not.
 
 
6 hours later…
6:30 AM
@jpmc26 micropython inf to 0.
 
6:54 AM
Thank you. I appreciate it. And thank you for hearing me out. You've also given me a couple of different perspectives that I haven't really thoroughly considered, and I promise I'll be thinking them through.
 
 
8 hours later…
3:02 PM
@JonEricson I've read the blog post, and even though it isn't one of the perspectives that was new to me, I've taken some time to think it through very carefully. I think it's very, very wrong.
The reason you responded defensively is not because the comments were condescending. They weren't. They were factual, professional, and provided information that you yourself believe was useful. The authors acted appropriately based on all the information they had available and on their relationship with you (the author).
You had asked to do something that is very ill advised, and you had not made it clear (*in the question*) that you knew the severity of the risks, how you planned to mitigate them, or provided a *very* good reason for accepting them anyway. When you're asking about such situations, it's not enough to simply say or imply you know the risks; you need to clarify the *problem* that you're trying to solve because thinking you need to take a dangerous approach is very often an XY problem. In this case, that means you need to explain the purpose for logging so much detail, your actual end goal, no
And let's also acknowledge that active listening can feel condescending for exactly the same reason you describe in the blog: you feel like you know what you're doing. An active listener still has to assume you don't know to try to lead you to their point, only it's even more roundabout and time consuming. These people aren't your counselor; you're just here for an answer. What right do they have to try to go through that process with you?
So if the comments are appropriate, why did you respond defensively? It's because they hurt. But why did they hurt? The reason they stung is simply because they told you that you were on the wrong track to solve your problem. Let me write that in a more direct way that emphasizes why it's painful: they told you that you were wrong. That is always going to be a painful experience no matter how kindly it's put. But why is being told you're wrong painful? It's because of what being wrong implies. Being wrong implies that there is some part of your thoughts or behavior that you need to change.
If it's good for us to hear things that are painful sometimes, then that implies we need to accept that pain and grow from it instead of striving to avoid it at all times. SO's old Be Nice policy contained a line that helped promote that kind of response: it said, "assume good intentions." I'm disappointed to realize that the CoC has dropped that language, and I think that change is reflective of a change in thinking about who's responsible for that unpleasantness. The new philosophy, expressed in your blog post, instead directly blames the person speaking the advice, even when it's good ad
Bleck. Didn't realize that long messages turn off Markdown.
 

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