Hey there! Regarding your question about lots of downvotes, wanted to have a chat about it, if you want, just reply here.

hello

TL;DR: while it's not "fair" towards the one being downvoted and can feel bad, that's how meta sites work on SE.

So hopefully I can help you understand that without you being upset.

So, you with me? Thoughts so far? :)

'upset' is not really the feeling... its more like 'frustrating'

it looks like being penalized for bring up an idea

imagine if this place was a work meeting

@RASG that's the problem, it's really hard if not impossible to compare Meta to anything IRL.

how would everyone in the room putting you down help in any way?

Any such comparison won't be accurate.

Meta is very special, and got many weird sides, but it's all essential part of what it is and how it works.

The downvotes is one of those weird sides.

Note that on any per-site meta, downvotes do not affect reputation at all. Even -500 downvotes won't reduce even 1 rep from the OP.

MSE is different on this aspect since it's the "meta of meta", so need to be more like an actual Q&A "main" site.

people usually stay away from 'special places' with 'weird sides' :)

@RASG that is true, but some still come inside, take a look, and decide to stay. :)

wont this 'shaming' actually prevent people from giving feedback?

because past a certain point, continually downvoting is just mean

i mean - i get it, its a bad idea - after 3 DV

Anyway, back to the "everyone in the room putting you down"... yes of course it's not helpful in any way, but the point in MSE is that any user should be able to act regardless of other uses.

not need for dozens

So if Bob downvoted, it should not prevent Joe from downvoting too, otherwise Joe will be upset he can't downvote.

Some (many?) people already have such "policy" of their own, without need for system rules:

But still, we should not force this on everyone.

i see downvoting in meta to make a point, meaning 'hey, we didnt like the idea.'

Essentially, yes that's the goal.

-3? ok, point taken. -22? you're just being mean

No... that's the point. -22 just means 22 people (at least) expressed their opinion.

It doesn't mean any of them is mean.

(hehe)

Anyway.... -22 is usually for things that get more attention, usually it's indeed around -3.

if thats the case there shouldnt be rep in meta... :/

@RASG and indeed, on all meta sites except MSE there's no rep.

Think the post about why MSE got rep was linked to your question, right?

(as dupe, which I don't think it is, but that's another matter)

So, you read it and its answers?

all of them. several times

really trying to see where i failed

@RASG you didn't fail, that's the point.

Most active users on MSE got downvoted posts.

Think I have one with -20 or so.

So what? So people don't agree with me. This doesn't mean I failed.

Yes the rep loss can sting, I agree to that, but then again, one upvote on answer equals to 5 downvotes, so it kind of balance the things.

Write some good answers and you're all good, rep-wise.

maybe you're right. it's just a very hard to swallow pill...

but i'll move on :)

Yes, that's why I'm here trying to help you through this.

Since you're not just a newbie, I think you can be an asset to MSE so seeing you leave just because of the downvotes just doesn't sound right.

Hence my goal is to try and make you see things in different way. :)

there should be a big warning banner on meta: proceed with caution

anyway, thanks for your time

its the first time someone comes to me to talk about it

really appreciate that

@RASG hehe... well there's a meme "Meta is murder" you know... started by Jeff himself I think. lol

@RASG always a first time... cheers! :)

And if you want to have some fun with chat bots, hop over to my Den: chat.meta.stackexchange.com/rooms/721/shadows-den

There is WAG (Word Association Game) bot and.... KennyBOT which is just for fun. Just ask there if you want.

now i hope i wasnt talking to a bot this entire time :)

Also, feel free to hit me up here on any question you might have.

:P

He is totally not a bot.

Thanks for the support! Also, now this room won't get auto deleted. :D

(just freeze in 14 days)

@RASG meta is hard. Took me about it 5 years to get the hang of it.

And I get a couple of dv a week.

And now you're one of the top users and a mod. @Journeyman :)

It's probably terrible advise but lurk a while. Meta has a lot of ... quirks even compared to the rest of SE

And it's worth remembering it's really hard to get community buy in for something that's worked alright over a decade

yeah... i'm always on SO, but usually come to Meta only when i have one of those brilliant ideas :)

So essentially migration is messy and broken enough that it's rare

It worked well once we convinced folks other sites aren't their dustbins

But kinda didn't scale to a million code monkeys ...

And that's pretty useful background information that's hard to find