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2:01 PM
Especially after reading that book I just mentioned, it scared me a little what would happen if the trends described there didn't reverse/halt at some time.
 
There are recent cases in Germany also. No matter what, that's usually not related to drugs, being alien or something. Individuals are individuals, and have to be handled as such.
 
@Tinkeringbell "had enough freedom to ..."
 
True, but you don't want to make crime too rewarding. You at some point want to avoid an attitude of 'I'll be helped anyways, so what does it matter'
 
ya, that's a problem
On the other hand, even here, someone mentally ill isn't considered culpable
(that said, one of my friends spent time in the local mental hospital, and they... seemed worse when they came out than I remember :( )
 
@JourneymanGeek True, but there's stuff you can't cure... So even if you're not going to be put to death, there should at least be very adequate measures in place to make sure you're never going to hurt society again.
 
2:05 PM
Individual crimes are drawn to every-day politics instead of leaving them at the court yard where these belong to, that's a problem.
 
@Tinkeringbell I think what they did with that mass shooter in...sweden? kinda worked
they got him in detention indefinately...
though he's in solitary cause its pretty likely he won't last 5 minutes in general population.
 
And his lawyers complained :-/
 
I don't have a problem with that personally.
 
@JourneymanGeek Breivik? Was norse ;) Sweden was that crazy submarine murder.
 
Oh
... oh god the crazy submarine murder
 
2:06 PM
@JourneymanGeek The societies have a big problem with this.
 
Doesn't really matter but yeah, I'd rather there'd be an option to lock people up indefinately
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I don't have a problem with him getting shived either ;)
@Tinkeringbell there is
Its called...
er...
 
At least a bit more room than our current justice system gives for that. We've got enough empty jail cells, let's use them.
 
detention at the $head_of_states_pleasure
 
@JourneymanGeek Heh.
 
2:08 PM
Which is an odd name, I'm sure they don't get much pleasure out of it
@Tinkeringbell in your case... queen?
 
Lemme google some stuff to see if it's correct and I'll get back to it ;)
@JourneymanGeek King :)
 
here it would be president.
Oh
(checks what happened)
Clearly I'm behind ;)
 
Soo... Basically, if you were given a sentence of 'life in prison' over here, it used to mean that only the king could give you clemency
Someone complained.
 
._.
SO its the "20 years to life" thing ?
they review it periodically?
 
Now, after 25 years, you're automatically entitled to a reintegration into society plan (there's some advice counsil that handles those, although it doesn't mention if it has the power to decline them too. The article goes on immediately after with:) if you do follow through on that plan and do it well, you're eligible to be freed from jail
 
2:12 PM
@JourneymanGeek Well, the society has to take lifelong care with such people. It raises incredible costs and many people asking is that worth it. But if we aren't able to handle psychopaths of that kind, what would you give about us. Extinguishing lives in prevention for other lives doesn't really seem to make up justice at all.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ hence my dislike of a mandatory death penalty
 
I am backing you up about that.
 
But the options of other ways to take someone out of circulation from society is nice
 
They need to b treated, life long.
 
2:15 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ Yet focus now isn't on life-long treatment... it's on fix them just enough so they won't have to be our problem anymore.
 
But what's the difference between, well, modern civilised society, and... well, a lot of the worse aspects of the past if we can't try to help the worst of us
@Tinkeringbell technically the death penalty is one way they won't be a problem any more...
And has a "nice" little chilling effect
Cause people like being alive...
 
citation needed on the last one
 
Death! You will never live to regret it!
 
@JourneymanGeek Hmmm. I think I've read somewhere that it achieves the exact opposite, because of 'I got nothing to loose, I can just as well do this and die if it goes wrong'
 
@Tinkeringbell well maybe, depends on the crime
but who actually does something expecting to get caught and executed?
Every criminal assumes they will get away with it
 
2:19 PM
@JourneymanGeek That's not true.
 
It's not the question to get those people really fixed one day. But taking their lives is just for no goods. Many victims relatives say, that won't bring back our sister, brother, father, whatever. Killing people never is a good answer, at least give them a chance to learn.
 
Which is why one of the essential social engineering many states do is convince folks its really hard to get away with it
@Tinkeringbell in which case they commit the crime, then sit down to get caught? ;p
Which has happened.
 
@JourneymanGeek Some are 'hoping' not to get caught, but that's not the same as assuming you won't be caught
And yes, there's cases of crazies leaving clues because they wanted to get caught and stopped from murdering people
 
@Tinkeringbell they feel there's a non trivial chance of getting away with it?
 
Prison: guaranteed housing, food and clothing. And you don't even have to cook.
 
2:20 PM
@JohnDvorak ya, some old dude did that, poor chap
they did actually get him help, and a warm meal.
 
@JohnDvorak There's a dutch song... 'Och, was ik maar een gijzelaar!'. Basically the singer is wishing they were a hostage so they wouldn't have to care for themselves ;)
 
@Tinkeringbell That's just silly. The p'lice is quite good applying their methods nowadays.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ that belief is an essential part of preventive police work
when I was younger we actually had a TV show called crimewatch (which school kids were encouraged to watch) which was all "the police is awesome and you WILL NEVER GET AWAY WITH IT!"
 
Grab a block of cheese from a supermarket. If you don't get caught, you get to eat. If you do get caught, you get to eat.
 
2:22 PM
@JohnDvorak true. Also a sign of a society that's failing its people.
 
BRB, grabbing some cheese
 
or imagine someone grabs something they know will set off an alarm, set off the alarm, and just sit down...
 
Death sentence doesn't heal anything,
 
nope
It is something they hope scares the next guy who thinks its fine to carry that brick of white stuff, cause what's the worst that could happen?
 
speaking of which, shouldn't Q-ban stats be more prominently displayed on the website?
 
2:25 PM
oh, that someone is qbanned?
Cause SE's never been about the "lets scare the next guy" ;)
 
Ten thousand people get banned from asking every day
<cue uncle Sam>
Today, you could be among them
 
@JohnDvorak That's far from the death sentence topic I've been discussing here recently.
 
slap that on every ask page until the asker gets a positively scored question. Watch the site quality improve.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I think he means in "punishment as a warning"
 
@πάνταῥεῖ nu-uh
 
2:27 PM
@JohnDvorak funny thing
We're quite literally told we can't/shouldn't threaten people
 
That's not a threat. It's a warning.
 
So no matter how mad I'm at a specific user. I cannot explicitly threaten to say kick or threaten someone
 
What's actually bad about banning people who don't manage to keep up with the quality requirements of a site?
 
I can warn them to sto....
 
@JohnDvorak I find that a weird thing to show. It's like putting up warnings you're 300 times more likely to die from cows than coyotes... until you realize that we keep and handle cows much more often than coyotes ;)
 
2:34 PM
@JohnDvorak something like that? ;)
 
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog Not the down-voter, but I guess that bug report was negatively received because a) there are no examples for this abuse and b) what would be the purpose of that abuse (changing your name every 15 min sounds tedious).
 
@AnneDaunted I referred to a script later on
 
Yes, a script (but you'd still need to somehow compile a list of names to switch to). And again, what for?
 
I assume you don't actually need to change the name, just submit a POST request.
 
@JourneymanGeek Like this:
user image
3
 
2:40 PM
@AnneDaunted and the end result is annoyance and people hating you ;)
@Tinkeringbell ah, insult after injury ;)
 
more like moral desecration
 
If you're going to cause a mess, you're going to pay for the cleanup :P
 
It is a neat finding in theory. And probably an easy fix.
But it’s probably not important enough for anybody to spend any time on here, until they’ve actually had to ban people.
 
Could this be a problem in chat? I don't know how name change affects chat, also I've never changed my name so far
 
Mildly annoying at best. Three kicks and you're fine for a while.
 
2:43 PM
@AnneDaunted there's easier things to do that on main chat
like reparenting
Someone did that on root access
we... just started calling him TOWMN until he knocked it off ;)
And if you really need a nick change stat...
you might be able to ask a mod nicely
(once)
 
Or use the "private beta" loophole
 
Just as an aside - any idea why leaving the realtime tab open for several hours straight brings my laptop to its knees?
 
Your browser might tell you
Could be a memory leak
 
@Tinkeringbell Starred!
 
... I love when there are 1000 viewers for a game on Twitch, but not a single streamer.
 
3:26 PM
ugh... my head...
have I had my dinner..? can't remember...
 
No
Less booze this time?
 
technically they're wrong with the wires
If you completly hang on one touching nothing, you dont get electrocuted
 
3:42 PM
with enough voltage, you will
Probably not on tram lines though.
 
4:12 PM
I wonder how many new users accidentally submit their question by pressing Enter after entering a tag.
 
4:26 PM
@Dukeling I'm wondering how many not new users do that too :D
 
4:50 PM
Mailinator just doesn't work as often as it should :(
Shady websites don't want you to use throwaway email addresses - go figure.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:57 PM
Few years ago, certain TV channels used to show ads in this way. Top, Bottom and sides together.
wtf
You need 10 reputation to post an image.

But I've 8583 Reputation
well that's not 10
 
 
2 hours later…
8:12 PM
any devs around?
So, are we getting any feedback? Because I feel bad letting the broken page like that... but I want things to be fixed. — coniferous_smellerULPBG-W8ZgjR 8 mins ago
 
*cough* standard terms *cough*
3
 
@Mithrandir "close as duplicate"
 
You don't listen, I am just giving up on you *cough*
 
@πάνταῥεῖ @JourneymanGeek @Tinkeringbell After thinking about this for a while, I've decided on the above compromise. To allow others to easily search for such requests and to help keep my identity, I'll be keeping the existing tag name. However, to help make clear to non-regulars and address the complaints of using non-standard terms, I'll add in the words "close as duplicate". And as before, I won't use Sonic references when referring to these terms in normal speech.
 
8:22 PM
< Ignores this user
 
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog Honestly. First of all that's another random ping, and secondly... you don't get to twist a request from a room owner into your own version of a 'compromise'. You were requested to use 'standard terms' only as far as I recall the conversation from this afternoon.
 
@Tinkeringbell Not really random; this is about a situation you were involved in, not some totally random topic.
 
You don't get to decide, and I think that after the amount of arguing that was done already this afternoon, it's not even in your place to bring the topic up again
 
:/
Tinkeringbell has asked you before to not ping her
respect that please
 
8:26 PM
That's gone all beyond simple respect already.
 
I wasn't the one who brought up the topic; I just made a request, unless making the request constitutes bringing it up again. I only started composing the next two messages because of Mith's message.
 
Please don't ping everyone who's been involved in that before though, especially not if those pinged have asked you not to ping.
 
@Magisch Sorry, I misunderstood what "random" meant in her previous request for no "random pings".
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Careful... We need to remain nice too.
 
"no random pings" doesn't always mean "no pings", but you seem to be incapable of grasping the difference. So, for you, "no frivolous pings" will boil down to "no pings".
 
8:30 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ don't go down that path
 
2 messages moved to Chimney
 
@Mithrandir So, by definition, every ping of mine is frivolous?
 
Restrict your pinging to current ongoing conversations as replies
 
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog In theory? No. In practice? You seem to not get the difference, so... yes.
 
doesn't even have to be forever, just right now people are on edge regarding you and maybe will react harsher because of your history. Take that into account and lay low for a while.
 
8:33 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ Making snide comments about someone still isn't welcome here.
 
It is not for you to decide @πάνταῥεῖ your messages are disrespectful, at least in any room I'm an RO in.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Imagine these comments were addressed at you, would they help?
would you find them appropriate?
 
That was a serious recommendation, not a snide comment
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Well, we missed enough of your good intentions to interpret it as a snide and mean.
 
you know as well as any other that recommendations like that aren't really something a relative stranger can give easily. Even if it comes from close friends with much more careful wording then that it's usually not well recieved.
 
8:35 PM
@Magisch I'd at least reconsider why someone tells me such thing?
 
I'm tempted to simply ask you to refrain from making such requests in the first place, @Sonic - you're trying to get people to use powers that you haven't earned yet to perform simple moderation tasks that are not a.) especially urgent or b.) especially controversial / difficult. You're bypassing the normal channels for his kind of thing. And then on top of that, you've been asked multiple times to use standard terms. You haven't.
 
@Tinkeringbell I took some time with that guy, here and in private chats. As mentioned it seems to be futile, I am giving up on them.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ That's okay :) Is it time for whiskey yet in your timezone? :)
Go have some, and we'll chat again tomorrow ;)
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Then do so
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Okay. That doesn't mean that you get to make remarks in here about them. "giving up on them" doesn't give you that right.
 
8:40 PM
@rene Since you're here, what's your take on dupehammer pings, as a user who's consented to receiving such pings?
 
If I get some feeling that someone is in need of professional help, and not saying that, this would be ignorant and dismissive.
 
Here's a thought: if this room can't decide whether dupehammer pings are good things or not, perhaps it's time to move them to another room - like CRUDE, like SOCVR, but Meta.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I've been keeping quiet about this but will finally step in. I don't feel comfortable when others shout "this guy needs professional help" in a public discussion group. If you believe that someone needs professional help, pull them aside and tell them privately later, and explain why. Don't shout it out publicly or else it comes across as a snide remark.
 
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog I rather have you use the standards term as was asked by Mith. I don't mind being pinged for a mod request, as long as you stick to the standards used across the network.
 
I can't hear you anymore.
 
8:46 PM
@rene Note that my most recent request does use a standard term: "close as duplicate".
 
@Tinkeringbell I already had a shot or two ;)
 
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog [tag:cv-pls] <--- use that
 
@rene That's specifically for blatantly off-topic questions.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Okay... that might explain the filtering then. It may be better to stick out of moderation discussions when on alcohol ;)
 
44 secs ago, by rene
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog [tag:cv-pls] <--- use that
 
8:48 PM
Also, with the previous argument, I've at least explained each reason that was given to me and explained why I think those are not as heavy. However, no one has addressed the two previous reasons I've given: searchability and a feel of personal identity.
 
That's gonna be futile :P
 
1 min ago, by rene
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog [tag:cv-pls] <--- use that
 
@πάνταῥεῖ If you think it's not gonna work, can you just refrain from torpedoing our efforts
 
@rene Why are you repeating yourself?
 
Because I have the feeling you didn't pick up my first message
 
8:50 PM
You heard about sysiphos' story ever?
 
@πάνταῥεῖ It'll likely help you to build a better image though. Go shut of the internet and have another drink. And don't drink so much you'll have another hangover!
 
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog because you're not listening. There are no blocking reasons why you shouldn't - so, do what you've been asked to do by the people who are helping you out by volunteering their powers for your requests.
 
@Tinkeringbell I am not that drunk.
 
Here's the thing. I use the tag [cv-pls] for blatantly off-topic questions. I want to use a different tag for dupehammer requests.
 
@Tinkeringbell the poor @πάνταῥεῖ is already wasted ... ;)
 
8:51 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ You're intoxicated enough for me to notice you're not communicating like you usually do?
 
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog Why? You've been asked by the people whose help you need to use that tag. Why should your opinion matter more?
 
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog I don't want you to run a different tag: it is the same action
 
[cv-pls] [question]

[cv-pls] [question] (@[users])
 
As mentioned I am still at a professional level, and I believe I am doing those things appropriately from my experience.
 
The only thing differentiating the close reason there is the presence of a ping.
 
8:52 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ you're drinking professionally?
 
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog That's fine. People casting the votes can, nay should decide what close reason they want to use.
 
@Tinkeringbell That depends on the receivers remark
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Hmm. Okay. Maybe I'm the one that should close the chat windows then ;)
 
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog it will work for me, trust me.
 
@rene That sounds being a nice idea for a job, but unfortunately no :3
 
8:53 PM
I'm trying my best to compromise. This seems like a complete win-lose situation to me. My requests won't be searchable among my prior requests and I'll lose my sense of identity.
Would [dupehammer-pls] not work? Could you please explain exactly why it won't work?
 
No. It is a cv-pls with a specific reason
 
Meaning like SOCVR?
@rene That said, it would be very nice if you explained to me in detail why [dupehammer-pls] wouldn't work.
 
I'm not going to copy over the FAQ from SOCVR but that format used there wasn't invented by that room
 
No one has addressed the fact that these new requests won't be searchable among the older ones.
 
Why is being searchable a concern in the first place?
 
8:58 PM
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog because [tag:cv-pls] duplicate [link] will work perfectly well and matches some already established standards across the network.
 
@Mithrandir In case someone wants to compile statistics about whether my pings are effective or not. For example, if someone wanted to check for pings where the question wasn't closed at all vs. the request was granted vs. the question was subsequently closed by the community.
 
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog Doing a search twice won't hurt...
But that's... quite the edge case.
 
@rene Sure, I'll change the format. Pinging @Shadow and @Glorfindel to notify them of the change.
 
awesome
 
And just when you think things are fixed. RO's don't speak for themselves when correcting problematic behavior. You should listen to them. They're not RO's because they make good rogues or dictators. You can't expect every user to tell you if they have problem with something
You can't even remember if you've pinged me on a subject or not, why do you expect everyone to tell you their preferences all the time and are promising to take those into account when it shows you can't do so?
 
9:04 PM
@Tinkeringbell A long time ago, Journeyman Geek asked me not to ping them for this reason. Did I ever do so later (except for a couple of what I thought were exceptions because he was involved)? No.
(But when I thought it was an exception, I made it clear that I knew he had asked me not to do it ordinarily.)
 
I told you in May that I didn't like pings prying into my personal opinions on stuff, yet I had to tell you again recently. Whatever you're doing, it isn't working.
 
1 message moved to Trashcan
 
Some might consider to even keep lists on paper or postits to remind themselves.
 
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog you should listen to whatever an RO tells you to do, no matter if they are involved or not. Don't make that mistake too often. I didn't tell you earlier because it wasn't clear if we wanted to allow it or not. Turns out we don't and you asked me about it so I told you how to proceed into the future.
 
At the very beginning of this discussion I said I would change my behavior if a consented user had asked me.
 
9:07 PM
And why doesn't a RO asking you matter?
 
Thanks for clearing that up.
@Mithrandir My opinion was that this was a matter between me and users who consented to receiving dupehammer pings, and that others shouldn't meddle.
Also, the overall distrust was directed towards one specific RO, not the entire team.
 
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog every single RO is consented.
 
It's in this room. That makes it a matter for the room.
 
@rene Consented to receive dupehammer pings?
 
No
 
9:09 PM
@rene Just making sure you knew what I was referring to.
 
sure
 
I know at least one RO has explicitly dis-consented to receiving these pings.
 
That's... irrelevant, though.
1 message moved to Trashcan
 
You know, I had some emotional attachment to the name "chaos emerald", and I didn't want that to go away, because of my character. Part of my argument above was driven by that.
 
Good luck with your further efforts ..
 
9:12 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ back-off please
 
@πάνταῥεῖ you're drunk. go home.
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog If it was a diamond moderator asking you to stop, even if they weren't receiving the pings, would you still react the same way?
 
@Mithrandir If a moderator on the site in question asked me to stop, then yes.
 
Not a CM. A diamond mod, say, if we were on chat.SE.
 
@Mithrandir Reworded.
 
9:18 PM
So, in this case, a RO is equivalent to a mod on the site. That site being the Tavern.
Meta.SE has no regular mods to moderate the chatroom. So that falls to the ROs appointed to watch the room.
That's always true in regard to ROs, actually - they are the first "line of defense" of authority in a chat room.
Whether or not the person asking you to stop has the ability to suspend you or not shouldn't affect the outcome much.
I actually don't like pulling out the mod or RO hat to be "the authority" and laying down the law. But here, I'm going to, as a diamond mod on SE and a RO here: Treat requests from the RO team of the Tavern as you would a local moderator on their site's main chatroom.
5 messages moved to Trashcan
@πάνταῥεῖ you're not helping
 
...go home early?
 
@πάνταῥεῖ But you're being slightly disruptive at the moment.
 
please stop the goading in the middle of a discussion.
 
3 messages moved to Chimney
 
Essentially, @SonictheInclusiveWerehog, the members of the RO team are the ones trusted with the moderation and upkeep of the room. Not having a diamond here shouldn't matter. Whether or not you've had run-ins with a specific RO in the past.
You've had it pointed out to you multiple times, on several occasions, that making the dupehammer requests in the way you did was not ideal, and you were asked to change it. You decided to ignore that every single time.
 
9:29 PM
@Mithrandir No, I explained why the reasons others were giving me for changing it weren't good reasons in my opinion.
 
Also mixed up into this, you don't seem to get when pinging a user is appropriate. People tried to explain to you, but it appears to be either all or nothing with you.
This has actively led to people avoiding this room.
 
@Mithrandir I'm sorry that I need specific pointers and reminders.
 
If it were only people :/
 
You were asked to refrain from posting here for a week. You proved incapable of the self-moderation required to do that, leading to the need to actually ask a staff member to give you a suspension.
 
Anyway, I'll agree to treat ROs as mods provided that my opinions are considered and taken into account whenever a dispute arise.
@Mithrandir I was watching the whole discussion take place in the RO-specific room. I just wanted to end the drama.
 
9:33 PM
This disregard of requests that people have made of you, combined with your obsessive tendencies and lack of self-moderation, has led to a toxic atmosphere in the room, which has led to other consequences, such as staff members stopping to visit here.
All in all, your presence has, unfortunately, been a net negative in this room.
I'd really like to see you improve that.
But people are real people, and people run out of patience at some point.
You're on thin ice. Watch your step.
 
Sep 14 at 22:18, by Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog
My goals with this room thus far have been: 1. to be able to talk to staff members and obtain more information on the various intricacies of the software that powers SE sites 2. to be able to turn off my neurotypical emulator and talk to people who are also interested in SE, my autistic "special interest", and exchange information at length about SE. I understand I can't meet the first goal here, but is my second goal out of alignment with this room?
I guess the answer is "yes".
 
Seeing it as an emulator is unhealthy
Every interaction with another human is social. Moderating your own actions to be in line with what other people can expect isn't putting on a mask or faking it, it's social intelligence. Most people do not actually just straight up say every thing that crosses their mind. Social interactions wouldn't ever work that way.
 
Sep 15 at 1:43, by Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog
If, on the other hand, you met me in real life, you wouldn't see me behave like this - if I did, my parents wouldn't have let me fly 1,200 miles away from home.
 
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog it is impossible to take your opinions into account if they are conflicting with what we consider to be healthy for the room. You simply have to agree to treat RO's as mods here. There is no other option.
 
The unhealthy point seems to be crucial, that's why I've been stepping in before.
 
9:40 PM
@Magisch Out of curiosity, have you read jamesmw.com/sixrules.htm?
 
I find focusing on these things to be unhealthy for you and the people around you
 
@Magisch Why is that?
 
@rene If you like we can discuss that further off that main room.
 
You'll find that even with close friends and especially in social settings nobody is going to cut you infinite slack. You have to find your way into healthy social interactions yourself. Yes I know it's hard. I have about 10 years of very painful trial and error and alienating everyone around me past me. It's not something that comes natural, neither to you nor to me. It's no excuse though
pointing back to a condition isn't going to endear anyone. it might make people understand more but it won't change the social dynamics themselves.
 
I'll repeat something I said previously:
Sep 7 at 0:03, by Mithrandir
And no, I'm sorry, but using "I'm autistic" only goes so far. Yes, you have a disability; no, that does not excuse you from the rules and etiquette here. Sorry for the extreme bluntness.
 
9:43 PM
My opinion is that it should be mutual: not only should the "special person" attempt to fit in, the others should be aware that the "special person" has different behavior patterns and adjust themselves accordingly.
 
Here's the error. You can't come into a social group and demand acceptance and that people change their modes of behavior and what annoys them.
Everyone else here gets annoyed - by me, by you, by anyone. They can't help their reactions just as much as you can't help your behavior
 
Oftentimes the only way to get rid of an opinion I hold very firmly is to prove it wrong.
 
Maybe I'm biased in this because I've had very similar experiences like yourself here on SE. Everyone isn't gonna adapt to you. You have to adapt to everyone.
You can be of the opinion that something isn't optimal and still abide by it
The others - they don't have the goal of changing your opinion. They want you to act differently.
Part of life is picking your battles - sometimes the non optimal solution is what you end up with. Some things are not worth fighting. Some things are worth accepting in the name of social peace and unity. Everyone has to compromise
 
One firm opinion I hold is that if someone behaves a certain way and the other gets annoyed, if I tell them in advance to let me know if they get annoyed and they don't, and then they later lose patience or get angry, I believe it's their fault because they didn't tell me about the annoyance earlier.
 
...
 
9:49 PM
@Magisch I tried compromising. I used requests of the form "[chaos-emerald-pls] close as duplicate". But that wasn't accepted. In the end, I settled on a solution that has none of the pros I listed earlier.
 
It hardly ever works that way. Not everyone likes to complain. People aren't naturally confrontational. Especially if you have a history of dragging every disagreement into a prolonged discussion that is emotionally exhausting and feels like guilt tripping
 
Not a single one of my opinions was at any time considered. A simple "we're sorry you feel so emotionally attached to it" would have helped a lot.
@Magisch The world would be so much better if everyone were just a bit more honest about their feelings.
 
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog You've stated in the past that you like people being blunt...
 
32 secs ago, by Sonic the Inclusive Werehog
@Magisch The world would be so much better if everyone were just a bit more honest about their feelings.
 
giving you honest feedback always comes with a discussion, mostly unpleasant
consider people don't have the energy or time for that
 
9:53 PM
@Magisch I've made the mistake of assuming that everyone would be just like me and drop everything to respond to an SE chat ping.
 
what you're saying works out to "You better be ready to allow me to have my say every time you percieve me negatively, or it's your fault"
 
I base my logic of doing things on reasons, which I then make decisions from.
 
What we're seeing now is that people think to themselves "I'd rather just not come to the tavern then deal with sonic and his pings. I don't want to justify myself everytime I don't want one and I'm tired of having to argue every nuance of this"
 
In other words, if someone says "please stop [x] because [y]", if I evaluate the reason [y] and think it's not a valid reason, or if it's a very minor reason to cause the overall pros to be tipped over by the overall cons, I may continue doing [x].
 
And what that person does not want is engage in a discussion with you about the merits of reason X
They want you to stop doing it. People rarely formulate out a whole chapter about all the reasons they don't want X. They give some reason because if they don't you'll ask and they don't have the time or energy for that.
 
9:58 PM
You shouldn't need to be explicitly told to stop doing things that people consider annoying in the first place. And then to disregard that request because you disagree with it? That's just rude and inconsiderate.
 
Even if the discussion ends up being productive and you come to a resolution, that is still emotional labor. People come here to relax. Employees specifically
they're not here to continue being hounded about insignificant aspects of their job
And we're at such a point where they'd rather just not come then deal with what inevitably follows
Seperate yourself from your perspective for a sec and see it from their point of view
 
@Magisch That's probably exactly what they're not able to do
 
You're on thin ice, @Sonic. I'd advise being careful to heed advice you're given (especially by the RO team) and to honor requests made of you. And maybe work on toning down the obsessiveness a bit.
Now, to switch to a completely different topic... *grumble*, having to take care of dishes at 00:40 is annoying
 
10:21 PM
@Mithrandir The deli is closed again?
 
Deli? No delis around here...
 
Happens all the time for me :P
@Mithrandir So what happened actually?
 
Got called down by my parents to take care of dishes...
 
Eeeer, that's weird :P
 
Why?
 
10:26 PM
Why are your parents calling you about dishes that off time?
 
they knew i was awake and they needed to be taken care of
 
Well, grumble
 
10:43 PM
@Mithrandir Your current avatar looks somehow similar to Violet from the Incredibles family. What's your super-power actually?
 
@πάνταῥεῖ well, it is
I'd like to think of my superpower as being able to give the impression that I'm older than I actually am online, but it's debatable if I actually succeed in that ;)
 
11:39 PM
Morning
 
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog erm. Considering that I made that request multiple times already and I personally have deeper issues with it as mith brought up too ... Eh. Whatever
Now more importantly
From the rest of that.
1) no one here is going to see you as a victim
2) you're falling , nay happily tap-dancing into the trap of not listening to anything you don't want, and using twisty logic to justify that. This is dangerous
3) as we understand - the RO team has the full support of the CM team and trying to say we are not mods is not a great argument. Besides most of the current RO team has a ton of experience running a chatroom.
 
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