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3:10 PM
hi, is this the right place to ask about how SO works?
@michal - yes it is! ^_^
@Lix - I am just interested - I voted on 600 questions, but I have not received the badge for it? so propably I misunderstood what the "electorate" badge is rewarded for?
@MichalPlško - well the actual definition is :
"Voted on 600 questions and 25% or more of total votes are on questions"
so the votes should be on questions... furthermore there is a slight delay when awarding badges - it doesn't happen immediately..
@MichalPlško You actually voted on 600 posts, 346 of which were questions.
@MichalPlško - this is from your profile :
3:14 PM
@Tim aaah, I see... so still 254 more to go, right?
ok, think I got it :) kinda easy to misunderstand the definition :)
@Lix Impromptu meeting, so I didn't get to finish that thought =P
oh those are the best meetings ;)
Voted up and voted down both will be consider as a voted is it ? @Lix
Are we required only up voted 600 questions ?
@Dha - I assume so - yes... There is no specification of what type of vote...
Picture is unrelated :P
3:31 PM
@Dha yes, up and downvotes both count for Electorate
Why I had not get electorate badge ?
@dha - you have not yet voted on 600 questions
Then what is number 933 ?
Total votes :)
+1 for freehand red circles
3:37 PM
Why thank you kind sir :)
@Dharmendra Under the "by type" heading, you see how many votes you've cast on questions, and how many votes you've cast on answers. You've cast 296 votes on questions, and 637 votes on answers.
Yeah I get it
Sorry but still a little confusion :P
Voted on 600 questions and 25% or more of total votes are on questions
Which means that I need to 600 unique question ?
That means you must have voted on 600 questions and at most 2400 votes total, or 601 questions and no more than 2404 total, or...
You need to vote on 600 different questions (you can only vote on each question once...either up, or down, can't do both).
and you can't vote more than once on any question, so the 600 question votes are automatically on distinct questions
3:41 PM
What about If I vote to question and answer of that question ?
Are they consider as separate question or just a single question ?
that will count as one question and one answer?
So according to @cdeszaq It will be consider as a single
@dha - a question is the actual question that was asked... a question can have multiple answers... only the vote on the actual question is counted for the badge...
Take a look at the explanation in the big list, @Dharmendra. It has some good examples.
@Lix Well, only the vote for the question counts towards that 600. Any votes on the answers still count for that badge as part of the "more than 25%" bit
3:44 PM
@cde - Ahh - yes... true true...
Hmm not it is clear.
I need some serious help guys - would someone PLEASE hold me down and force feed me some Git.... I really need it right about now :(
@Dharmendra to get the electorate badge, you need to meet 2 criterion:
1) At least 600 votes on questions
2) question_votes / total_votes > 0.25 (where total_votes = q_votes + a_votes)
in other words, for every 3 votes on answers you need at least one vote on a question
Yeah get it. I think you are a good mathematician :)
@Lix As a .NET developer I've found using TortoiseGit with GitHub makes for a great way to store simple little side projects and bits of code. Though I feel like I'm not getting the "full Git experience."
(Also, TortoiseGit is a little buggy at times, but still very much usable.)
4:05 PM
@jad - more meetings?? :/ will this day never end!!?!?
Haha, no. Everyone's profile pictures disappeared, so I just typed "Graaaaaaaaaaaaavatar".
Then I thought, "that was silly Josh"
And I deleted it =)
did it summon back the pix?
Ah, that must have been what did it! I didn't even make the connection.
I just assumed my Internet connection got slow for a minute.
Mar 26 at 16:05, by mmyers
This room frightens me deeply
@Lix =)
4:14 PM
Oh dear....
@ShawnChin Yes, that about sums it up. Welcome to the Tavern. Grab a seat and enjoy the show ;-)
interesting discussion about SO on HN: news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3771286
4:36 PM
@SantaFosco I find the mod's comments at the bottom particularly interesting. (and oh so true)
z_ 1 hour ago | link

Banned for being too awesome.
hehehe... oh you mods :P
funny bunch of sopedian comedians :P
Man, I think I need a nap... SOO MANY BRAIN FAILS!
Q: Little idea for people taking responsibility/providing an explanation for down-voting

SkonJeetIs there any way to complain about getting downvoted? Threads like the above are one of many that make it clear that the anonymous nature of down-voting sometimes causes a heated discussion as to why a down-vote was made. This is understandable, in some cases, were the member providing the answe...

Shot down from all angles...
@Lix And from many angles, more than once!
4:43 PM
true dat.... his heart was in the right place - but one has to seriously think about all the angles when suggesting a new feature... or a change of an existing one...
@Lix Especially one that messes with the "game balance" on SO, and particularly so when dealing with comments (the 2nd-class content citizens of the realm) and things that will incite more consternation rather than less
@Lix - This comment, in particular, I find enjoyable.
hehe - shot down with a bazooka :P
shog is right though - people don't want to change much with this fantastic toy that everyone is enjoying :)
@Lix "Don't fix what ain't (to most people) broken"
:P true true...
It's been asked so many times, it's like they never think it's been considered before.
4:53 PM
Does the system still recommend that low-rep downvoters leave explanatory comments?
@SantaFosco And also amazing is how often the "search" button seems to get clicked. Perhaps we should start a support group for it?
@PopularDemand Yeah it asks them to consider leaving a comment... but of course there is no requirement.
@PopularDemand I think so, but I don't remember. I also recall something popping up if you do too many downvotes without an upvote in there somewhere (could be wrong... that might be related to answers vs. questions)
@pop - yes it does... at least for me it stopped when I reached 3K (i think) maybe 2K...
Last post I saw about it said 2k.
Seems a bit contradictory to the (relatively new) "downvotes should be anonymous" approach.
4:55 PM
@SantaFosco As there shouldn't be. Making voting (one of the core actions of the system) harder is the last thing that should happen.
Agreed... people get too uptight about down-votes. The community will prevail eventually if it wasn't justified.
@PopularDemand I agree with that. But I think the idea is more to encourage people to help each other make things better through commenting.
@pop - I know that it is acceptable for downvotes to be anonymous... but where was it recommended as the correct approach?
Most people don't even take constructive criticism well, they get defensive instead.
@SantaFosco That's 100% true. And even 100 downvotes is easy to get back with a handful of upvotes
4:57 PM
@san - all depends how you address the issue.
> Marge, I agree with you... in theory. In theory, communism works. In theory.
@SantaFosco I've found that it really depends on the person, and also about the issue in question. "Thinkers" tend to be much more open than "doers", especially when the issue is about an idea or a "how do I do this" rather than a "what did I do wrong"
There are so many bad questions... Mostly what bothers me is people asking how to make solution A work, without telling us the problem or having any doubt that solution A is the way to go.
relevant example from this morning: stackoverflow.com/questions/9926552/…
@san - what really gets to me is when an OP posts and leaves hoping to return later and pick up the pieces :/
@PopularDemand The difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, there is no difference. In practice, there is.
5:03 PM
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to pull that line out.
@PopularDemand What's it from? I've used it many times, but don't remember where I got it.
I don't know where it's from originally, but I've heard it in a lot of different places. Usually right before or right after the Simpsons line I just used.
@SantaFosco Oddly enough, other than the "give me a solution" tone to that question, I don't find it all that bad (yes, it needs some work, but the root is fine). I could easily see how, especially for someone with minimal experience, that question makes perfect sense.
@PopularDemand The Simpsons quote also reminds me of something a co-worker who grew up in communist eastern Europe once said... "Communism was never about sharing. It was about telling other people to share."
@cde - I agree with you - but if the OP was to hang around - he might have got some help...
5:05 PM
@SantaFosco I didn't read the specific example you just gave, but I don't see what's wrong with just telling someone how to do A. In 99% of cases you don't know enough about the problem to know for sure that A is wrong, and even if it is wrong, it's what the OP asked for, and what future searchers (who may have a different use case) need.
He has a fundamentally lack of knowledge of how databases/queries work, and is asking a specific solution question without explaining the context. It's bad, and he's not there to update/communicate.
@PopularDemand Agreed... I have many times answered exactly what they asked, and been downvoted for it. lol.
Oh well. Nothing to do but wait until one of us becomes undisputed supreme leader of Earth, then.
It's a fine line, I think, between solving exactly what they ask for, or trying to look at the bigger picture.. I've taken both sides.
@PopularDemand Dibs!
5:07 PM
Right before a code block in an answer - "try this, I just typed it randomly apologies if there are any typos..."
@jadarnel27 prove it, I don't believe you
flags or it didn't happen :P
@jadarnel27 I've often free-handed code in answers simply because I didn't have anything around to test it. So the caveat is fair, just worded a little lazily there :)
5:09 PM
@David Right =) I got the sentiment, I just thought the wording was amusing.
thats one heck of a random sequence...
I wonder what utils i can make by banging on my keyboard for long enough ::p
You guys, unlike walther, missed the headline. On what planet is "L" a legitimate value for gender? We have a non-human user!
(Preemptive @animuson: cyborgs are still partially human, so you count as one of us for the purposes of that last statement.)
5:11 PM
@Lix That's about all I can think of
@PopularDemand I used to work for a state government agency many years ago and we once had a large overhaul of our standard lookup data. The change that caught my eye was "Several new options for 'Gender'."
I never did get to see what those options were.
:920661 I hope not. I would expect a list to be both comprehensively exhaustive and mutually exclusive. If they were just tossing in abbreviations then I fear for their data integrity.
Though this was the same place which required that we never use boolean fields in the database for reasons which escape me. So for true/false flags I would use character fields with enum values like "is" and "no is"
@David M, F, O are standard values in DICOM data. But if they were considering "gender" to be how the person was seen / saw themselves instead of just physical characteristics and/or chromosomal fingerprint, they could have a whole slew of options. And that's not even counting "formatting" variations like spelling, capitalization, etc.
@David If you had been in Canada, it would probably have been "eh" and "not eh"
5:16 PM
@cdeszaq My suggestion at the time was to just change the wording of the question instead of the data of the answers. Instead of asking which gender they are, ask which public restroom they use.
hehehe- "depends on my mood" :P
@David I'll have to remember that the next time it comes up!
@Lix Sorry, abbreviations only. That will be converted to "DOMM".
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA done
I can suggest an edit within the quote :P But yea... not in a quote....
5:28 PM
@Lix say what?
> ...all of your bodily functions temporarily stop working
@Lix heh... good point. "body functions" include things like running, jumping, etc. (ie. functions your body performs)
I'm skeptical that that paper was proof read.
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA Did that help?
5:32 PM
@cdeszaq did what help?
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA I made an edit on that Q.
@cdeszaq I dont see any edit
hmm... not sure how I got there, but I made an edit on: skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/6151/…
@cdeszaq Ummm thats not my question
@cde - maybe a suggested edit... you don't have that privilege yet :P
5:34 PM
I think what happened is that, since I didn't have an account on that site, I got auto-redirected to the duped question
yeah, I made a suggested edit
ha! on skeptics... we are equals! ;)
hehe, oops. Do you still need a suggested edit on your Q @amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA ?
@cdeszaq Ummm there is no auto direct on dupes
none that I know of
well, then I have no idea how I got there... let me try again (incognito!)
Odd, is that new feature?
5:36 PM
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA Must be. Confirmed, 301 redirect when not logged in
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA Yes
@TimStone Odd. when was this created. and why?
A: Automatically redirect anonymous user from unanswered duplicate question to corresponding answered version

Kevin MontroseStarting with the next build, anonymous users will be redirected when they visit duplicate questions with no answers. As with migration and merge redirects you can disable with ?noredirect=1.

@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA The "why" makes sense. There's no point in sending "new" users to dupe questions.
@TimStone Hmmm odd, ok
@cdeszaq Well there might be if the supposed duplicate is not a duplicate, or if the duplicate might cover a different topic (slightly)
5:40 PM
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA Since it on'y applies to non-logged-in users, I don't think it's as much of an issue. A logged-in user can "fix" the incorrect duplicate state, but an anonymous user can't do anything anyways
Incidentally, it also affects Google, since it's a redirect
I think the idea is that it's much more important to get anon users to land on actual content than on something that isn't actually content (or perhaps not the best content)
It's also specifically dupes with no answers.
Kevin Montrose is petty for converting a wall-of-text into readable paragraphs.
What a jerk, that Montrose guy is =P
@jadarnel27 Sometimes I wish I could -1 comments
@cdeszaq Oh, so often.
I worry about the effect that these redirects will have on Google.
The entire point of keeping so many dupes around is for Google-juice, and this almost entirely removes those pages from their indexes.
5:50 PM
@JeremyBanks well see my new
If Kevin Montrose is correct and Google will still pick up on keywords in the titles then it's not the end of the world, but it still seems like a loss.
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA +1
@JeremyBanks Since it's only for non-answered questions, I don't see it being too problematic. It might be better if the original content was included in the body of the redirect response (i don't know if Google looks at this), but it is a bit worrysome
@cdeszaq D'oh, my careless illiteracy strikes again.
I forgot (and failed to notice despite posting it as a dupe) that it only applied to unanswered questions. That's not as terrible.
@JeremyBanks There's no way google can pick up anything from the redirected question, however, since there is nothing in the response body.
5:55 PM
@cdeszaq Most of the title will be in the original URL; he just means from that.
@JeremyBanks I suppose that makes sense, as long as the links that google is crawling (ie. from non SE network sites) have the titles in the URL, since they are not strictly required. (case in point: skeptics.stackexchange.com/q/8633/651 has just the ID)
> GET /q/8633/651
< Location: /questions/8633/is-it-true-that-your-heart-skips-a-beat-when-you-sneeze
> GET /questions/8633/is-it-true-that-your-heart-skips-a-beat-when-you-sneeze
< Location: /questions/6151/does-your-heart-stop-beating-when-you-sneeze
So Google does see the URL, at some point.
I don't know whether it notices.
That extra redirect seems kind of wasteful otherwise too, but meh.
Hmmm, is it a better idea to buy music from Amazon MP3 or Google Play? Google Play looks more expensive, but it's Google and I trust them more. o.o
@animuson amazon
google play wont last
at least that is my opinion
6:03 PM
Lol this Free MP3 Albums section is hilarious xD
@animuson lol i got all the free google play stuff
@JeremyBanks Very odd, but OK.
i liked it when it was called google music
@mootinator Agreed. P2P is the Way2B
6:15 PM
Close as duplicate please: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/127431/155556
This will just help prove my point in my linked question ^_^
I'd help but I don't have the meta-rep.
@SantaFosco you could flag as well :-P
I'll spare the mods an unnecessary flag...
@SantaFosco rnt u done with the santa theme yet? lol
Yeah =\ I'll change it now.... done.
6:26 PM
Why is anyone deleting that post?
@SantaFosco u still look like santa to me over here
CacheExchange takes a while to propagate changes around the network..
@SantaFosco intwesting
How does an integer go about "westing"?
@animuson It did not want to go easting
6:49 PM
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA don't forget it not wanting to go northing or southing either
@JXPheonix hmmmm that too
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA we could go on with NWing SWing SEing NEing NWWing but it will get tedious, after a while.
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA What's with the backwards A Man A Plan A Canal Panama name anyway
@JXPheonix Look at the stars on the sidebar. its not backwards there ^_^
Worked with a guy who pronounced any/all 'TH' sounds as an 'F'....
norf, souf... which don't you want? bof?
Many hours spent laughing at different words.
Fe Cat Finks Fat It Can Climb Up That Tree
6:55 PM
@JXPheonix Fat Tree
@cdeszaq Whurps
She sells sea shells by the sea shore.
Go take a baf, it's your birfday. We got you a photo boof.
Revised: That Thatched Thanksgiving Thinks Things --> Fat Fatched Fanksgiving Finks Fings.
I know fe sentence makes no sense, fats part of fe fun.
6:59 PM
Fis fing frows free fick sticks every firty free seconds
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA Thee thi tho thum doesn't make any sense!
Hard to have much respect for a guy who sounds like that. (and also sucks)
The only thing I hate about Uncrustables is that you have to let them thaw for 30-60 minutes before you can eat them. -.-
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA Thee Thi Tho Thum? now im confused.
i wonder if anyone has ever flagged their own question/chat comment for a moderator. "Moderator! Moderator! I'm being an a**hole! Please kick me out of this room!"
7:01 PM
@JXPheonix eh?
Own question? I've flagged one of my own questions before...
@JXPheonix People have vandalized their own posts in order to attract moderator attention, if that counts.
@animuson as have I
i meant to say chat comment but a question counts too.
However, I've never flagged anything in chat.
7:03 PM
Anyone here able to help me w with precalculus?
@Moshe What do you need help with
A few questions. Let's see... Here's this:
@animuson Oh, I would imagine that's not uncommon. There's a grace period for edits (and I think deletes), so a moderator would be needed to change something which needs to be changed after that grace period.
f(x) = 3x^2+12x-3
A) write f in standard form.
today was a good day in SO today. got like 180 rep from two bounties. broke the 200 limit so i got 100 on all my other SE profiles
7:04 PM
That is, the from of f(x) = a(x-h)^2+k
@JXPheonix Well done!
@cdeszaq thanks
@JXPheonix Congrats!
@jxp - that's the first part.
@Moshe thinking...
@David thank you :)
7:05 PM
@Moshe 3x^2 + 12x - 3 = 3*(x^2 + 4x - 1) = 3*(x^2 + 4x + 4 - 5) = 3*((x+2)^2 - 5)
B) let g(x) = x^2. Explain how the graph of f can be obtained from the graph of g.
= 3*(x+2)^ - 15
@Moshe well the g(x) function is the parental quadratic function (something to that effect)
@Daniel - so that's what I got for a. The vertex would be 2,-15) yes?
@DanielFischer I FEEL SO DUMB
7:06 PM
@DanielFischer Well done. It's been ages since I had to do this, and it's nice to see my solution is the same as someone else's
@Moshe the factor a, here 3, is a scaling factor, the others ar just trnslation
@jxp right, so how do would I explain?
@Moshe no, (-2,-15)
@DanielFischer And that's the whole point of having things in that format, if I'm not mistaken. To easily determine scale and translations
@danielc why -2?
7:08 PM
when you have (x+a)^2, you move the graph left
Ok. So what do I do for b)?
So, the vertex is (h, k)
h, in this case, is -2
H is +2
@Moshe you scale it by 3, you move that two units in the negativ direction (usually left) and 15 units down
cut it in half, then double it.
7:09 PM
@Dan for which one?
@Moshe ....nope. if it's (x-h), but the solution is (x+2), then h = -2 is what the value would have to be.
@Moshe that's how you get the graph of ffrom the graph of g
Ah, ok
@Moshe (x + 2) = (x - (-2))
And ah, ok
C) find all x and y intercepts in the graph of f.
And finally, d) write the domain and range of f
7:12 PM
That's the zeros for x-intercepts, and f(0) for y-intercepts?
zeros: points x where f(x) = 0
I'm not familiar with the intercept terminology
so I ask what that means
X Intercept is where the parabola intercepts the x axis.
Y intercept, y axis.
@DanielFischer I think it means where the graph crosses the X and Y axes (respectively).
Put differently, x-intercepts are the points where the graph intersects the x-axis
7:14 PM
Where does this parabola have 0, y and x, 0 values?
Right, so it's zeros and f(0)
Now, f(0) is easy to compute
just insert 0 for x
Why are we learning to find x-intercepts?
and for the zeros, solve a*(x-h)^ + k = 0
@animuson zeros of functions are important
I'm in trouble if we don't, @animuson
7:17 PM
But this is a tavern. Drunk people + math = disasters occurring
solving quadratic equations is an old art, if you have the equation in the form a*(x-h)^2 + k = 0, first rewrite it to a*(x-h)^2 = -k, then divide by a, (x-h)^2 = -k/a
@animuson very true
Now get the square root, x-h = ±sqrt(-k/a)
and finally
x = h ± sqrt(-k/a)
If I may add a concurrence to animuson's position: I leave for an hour and you're inviting middle schoolers in to do their math homework? This is a Tavern, people!
@pop I'm not in middle school, I'm in uni Precalc, thank you.
7:19 PM
@Pop When I was at uni, we did most of our homework in a pub
Drunk science, V2- Drunk PreCalculus.
@DanielFischer When possible, I still do most of my programming work in a pub. Somehow, I'm able to focus that much better when my senses are slightly dulled
ewwww my mini donuts are soggy :s
@animuson Probably because you are in a Tavern ;)
So, how do I find those intercepts again?
7:20 PM
Keep your alcohol off my donuts!
@animuson Heh... hopefully it's alcohol.
@animuson And actually, that sounds like it might be rather fantastic
@Moshe private room?
sry bout the noise dudes
7:23 PM
That's not just called "math"?
I suppose everything from limits to geometry to algebra to arithmetic are all technically "pre-calculus."
@PopularDemand It's not real calculus until there are no numbers
Sorta like programming...
Aside from all the constants.
Sorta like programming?
@mootinator No numbers. If you're programming with numbers, it's not "real" enough :) (magic numbers and all that jazz ... big no-no)
7:29 PM
Q: Is the chat broken?

RepWhoringPeeHaaIs it just me or is the chat on SO broken right now? It loads without the stylesheets. Update master-chat.js and feed-icon128.png don't load. It also seems the transcript doesn't work. UPDATE2 Refresh without cache to see what I mean. Any browser. Looks like an update gone wrong??

uh oh. I blame ASP.NET. (for no reason other than i hate it.)
obviously a CDN issue of some sort...
We need an appropriate way to call Tim Stone! He's very important!
user image
...it's not working.
7:39 PM
Sorry, I was too busy laughing
Okay, somehow you summoned real Josh instead.
Ah, very good.
I just felt the need to come in and give you props on that @animuson
Hey Josh
@PopularDemand if you shine that symbol into the back room of the tavern it may get my attention :-p
So I visited the Bavarian Brathaus. Good call, @TheUnhandledException.
7:40 PM
@Fosco Hey there, how goes?
@TheUnhandledException well enough... and you?
@PopularDemand glad to hear you enjoyed it! I miss that place, there are no decent German restaurants here in Asheville
@Fosco hanging in there!
@moguzalpenel_hak ACK
over an out :)
7:56 PM
Is there an easy way to see the pre-edit source for a suggested edit? It's hard to judge some formatting edits without being able to compare to the original.
The Markdown diff doesn't work for that?
But otherwise no, you have to jump over to the post history and look at the source there I imagine.
It's... sometimes harder to read... than other times.

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