Tavern on the Meta

With a cannon, obviously...

flint & steel

Tim Post

You ask them to write software that fires people. Then, you only have to get your hands dirty if they get that wrong.

3

Actually, a voting and AI system for calculating pay and hiring/firing might work…

is sitting here staring out the window waiting for the pizza guy

12:12 AM

@bjb568 only if we get rid of the useless hr departments first

That's kind of the point…

@animuson chat.meta.stackexchange.com/…

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: ISLAM WHY ARE DECEIVING THE WORLD? on islam.stackexchange.com

@bjb568 There's clearly not enough pizza on that page.

@ManishBot Gone.

This question appears to be off-topic because it is not a question a professional or enthusiast programmer would ask. — bjb568 yesterday

lol

12:17 AM

:)

interesting, I got suspended from reviews for no audit-failures.

"You have made too many incorrect reviews. For an example of a task you should have reviewed differently, see: stackoverflow.com/review/low-quality-posts/4994041 "

> This question appears to be off-topic because it is not about pizza.

@user0000000: lol

ouch, looks like Shog9 got you @FinalContest

Every question that lacks the character "?" should be closed as "unclear what you're asking".

12:19 AM

@user0000000: yes, he probably issued a manual ban for that one for all of us.

expect less spam and low-quality links from me. ;)

@bjb568 ಠ_ಠ

I cannot understand the reason for a ban with the above review where 3 people disagreed with shog, as well as an answer.

Yeah, the "?" rule fails some times…

and no one else voted on close either except shog. I think it has something to do with people thinking differently than him, but that is not a good reason to ban people.

Oh, look a diamond! I'll just overrule and ban these 3 people…

12:24 AM

yep

Is SE being too micro managed?

that would not be a problem if it was well u-managed.

the funny thing is that shog does not even have php track record either!

but of course it is lost game to bring up on meta since mods have almost infinite respect there over users. :D

wtf, 80 reopen questions in the reopen queue?

@user0000000 Yeah, they're all terrible. I proposed that they were made audits (I almost never get audits because quality reviews!).

@user0000000: sometimes there is 100+

12:36 AM

@bjb568 I remember skimming your thread on that... are people just like voting to reopen those old questions b.c they have a lot of upvotes?

Just completed my 1000 reopen reviews thanks to it'

@user0000000 Dunno. Same reason people approve vandalism? Or call it "too minor"? (i.e. they don't know what they're doing)

@FinalContest that question is pretty awful. What did you see in it?

@Shog9: it is quote odd to review-ban people for not agreeing with you here. At least four people disagreed with you, and none has voted to close, sorry. Also, you do not seem to have php track-record either. Are you sure this was the right move? No, I will not bring up things on meta against mods since they have infinite respect over users, but I can write to the team if you think this is not the right way to bring up concerns about the closure of this question. — Final Contest 1 min ago

I didn't ban anyone for disagreeing with me.

@Shog9 Well, it's not "unclear".

12:39 AM

@bjb568 what's the question?

Quick, without looking

@Shog9 Why doesn't it work in PHP5?

@bjb568 ...

Yeah, it's crap.

But people in the JS room would likely upvote it.

I'm skeptical

And I'm tired.

12:40 AM

@Shog9 meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/258439/…

That's why I'm here though; is there something I missed there? It looks like a god-awful question to me, and I was kinda depressed that three people said it looked good.

(I'm monitoring the VLQ queue right now, since we changed Looks Good to Looks OK)

(No, that question isn't OK either)

4 people disagreed with shog, and three even upvoted.

as far as I can no one has agreed with him. I must say it is a pretty odd situation to go about banning. When the power is abused in a tag where one does not even have track record...

The ban came first. All of this disagreement came later.

The community doesn't agree with itself on how much help people should get. There's the "help everyone, we were all there before" group and the "delete all, it's crap" group. (I'm in the second)

@bjb568: yes, agree, this does not seem like a clear-case of banning where pretty much everyone disagrees with him except another downvoter, but even that person did not vote to close.

even the answer is upvoted by two people.

12:44 AM

yea, i agree mostly with final contest

are there any php experts in the room?

@user0000000: thanks, and people know how critic I usually am about bad content and how many of them I show here for immediate treatment.

17 hours ago, by Tim Post

@bjb568 meh. Closing isn't mean. If anyone actually cared about that question, they'd edit it - but I don't see anyone doing that either. Letting a crappy question rot is pretty mean...

@user0000000 no response to this ^

... you don't need to know PHP to tell it's crap. My 2 cents.

12:45 AM

@Braiam: actually, I wrote a smiley as a response. :)

@hichris123 maybe my crapometer is off from viewing thousands of worse questions than that one

in JavaScript is the language of love. on Stack Overflow Chat, 18 hours ago, by bjb568

@BenjaminGruenbaum I reverse my vote and retracted the CV. If people bother to edit and comment a question can be improved the the point of being on-topic. That, however, is not my job.

That's what I said!

(that was after editing)

Too bad editing doesn't scale.

for me, review activity stops today even after the ban. I just do not wanna get banned anymore and pissed off for different opinions for a clearly not clear-case issue.

@user00 meh. Code dump + it doesn't work.

I will stick with only answering questions, where incompetent mods cannot easily get in the way. My definition of incompetent is no-track-record here. (it is not the first time, sadly)

user206222

12:50 AM

@Final I'm glad you and are aware of and avoid what frequently upsets you.

@bjb568 sure it does. It scales as much as answering scales. You just need to get past the mindset of "every terrible question must be edited into something good and then answered" - if no one cares to do either, then that's on the author.

@Shog9 Editing of crap into gold doesn't scale. And most of it leaves brown specs on the gold anyway.

@user0000000: do not argue with mods; they will be always right. I have not seen them changing their mind for pretty much any feedback. What is stuck is stuck. :-)

Always right 80% of the time every time.

@bjb568 well, but this is where you see folks shooting themselves in the feet - they'll take the time to answer a question but fail to edit it, thus ensuring their answer is lost. "Someone else should do something" never scales... ;-)

12:53 AM

anyway, do not expect low-quality, spam, etc catches from me anymore in this regard. It will just not be worth my time with help those anymore, sorry.

+1 for a moderator making a mistake and admitting to it — user0000000 Apr 7 at 0:08

19

A: Declined Flag Dispute

Fat fingered that one, but in the future, include more information. We see a lot of "this is a duplicate answer" flags that are completely meaningless. Here's a better flag: Duplicate of answer on same question from same user. This conveys that the user has posted two of the same answer on ...

@user0000000: heh:

-1 for making mistakes robo-moderators shouldn't be doing — Qantas 94 Heavy Apr 7 at 0:50

@Shog9 Something needs to happen to answers to closed questions.

@FinalContest your time is your own to do with what you will. But my job is to make sure folks aren't waving crap through /review.

@bjb568 delete them then

Also, earn more rep on SO already.

So that you can delete things.

Ugh, ok. I'll get on it.

12:56 AM

anyway, this is a nice way of scaring off useful contributors with such a case. I am not the first one as far as I can tell. There is the moderator way or highway.

I want rep!

I can't even find a question worth answering :(

sigh, another person again who cannot be easily highlighted...

@ɥʇǝS It's not that hard. Sometimes, you have to edit them first to make them worth answering.

@FinalContest Try +h, I've heard it works.

12:57 AM

I always feel pressured to close and VLQ when there are still posts on the homepage that are open.

I know, but it is annoying fwiw, so I will not do it.

This pretty much sums it up for me:

Mar 27 at 2:04, by Undo

Whenever I'm on SO, I like to do moderationy things. But I can't do very many, because I don't have much rep because I spend all my time doing moderationy things :(

"This is the normal norm" -words of wisdom from user1050619

Moderator stuff is boring.

this ^^

12:59 AM

And thankless.

It's gotta be done, but... Don't spend all your time on it.

@Shog9 Some day, when I have more time I might try that. But alas I am not a good programmer. Yet.

You'll just end up regretting it.

Nuking stuff is always fun.

The more whoring you do (creating mod work), the more rep you get. The more mod work you do (helping the site), the more negative rep.

@Shog9 I will quote you for the guys in UL :P

1:00 AM

But meh, I'm here to learn, sure, but I enjoy bettering the community.

@bjb568 like I said, just edit the question before you answer it. Then you're not rep-whoring.

SEE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO BE!

or whatever

something pithy

oranges

please slap on my fingers if I ever start doing review again from the queues.

@Shog9 Well… that opens up 10 times more questions. But the number is still 0.

Maybe I could answer more stuff, but the majority of stuff I see in android is... crap. Which encourages me to make it... less crappy.

@FinalContest if I see you half-assing one again, I will.

2

Otherwise, I won't.

1:06 AM

@Shog9: it is quite clear actually, the new code does not work, whereas the old code with php4 does. The OP posted the ported code - unlike many other bad questions where there is no attempt shown - which does not work. Someone having php expertise may understand why the ported code does not work. You do not seem to have php track-record, do you? Is it possible that you are not an expert like some other contributors here (not necessarily me)? Let us put it differently, why do you think it is unclear? You should really explain it since it is unclear to me why you think it is unclear. — Final Contest 1 min ago

Lots of code doesn't work, @Final. How doesn't it work? What are the symptoms? What is the expected result? Please read: How to create a Minimal, Complete, and Verifiable example — Shog9 ♦ 39 secs ago

It is really depressing that I have to tell someone with 20K on Stack Overflow how to ask a question.

@Shog9: there is no need for error message when the issue is clear. Why are you saying it is not clear? In fact, there is already one answer with three upvotes. Do you really think this is the right way as a community manager to deal with contributors? Ban them because they (more than one person) have different opinions than yours? I am not even questioning the closure. If you want to close it, do it, despite some people disagree with you. But banning? Sounds brutal to me, especially with a contributor who is known for speaking up too much against bad content and have tons of dv, cv, flags. — Final Contest 58 secs ago

@Shog9 Here's an answer: stackoverflow.com/a/24072658/2888561

@bjb568: upvoted before I get banned completely by Shog. :D

:P

1:17 AM

perhaps next time mods will delete answers of mine about qt (my area on SO) because they just do not get it :)

:)

GnomeSlice

If anyone is gonna get banned by shog it's gonna be me.

Confess your sins!

and repent of your evil deeds!

Um… do we need some holy water or something?

1:19 AM

if I was a person who would continously accept really bad content, I would understand the ban, although for clear-cases not like this, but based on that many people call me too critical towards bad content, it feels inconvenient to do "bad thing" no matter what I do. :D

@bjb568 I have it covered

good night, dream with mods and bans.

@FinalContest Don't eat the worms.

1:39 AM

[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive title detected: I feel like I missed something…why on earth did Morrie crap on his neighboor's lawn? on movies.stackexchange.com

user206222

That unicode ellipsis really is offensive. Good catch.

@Shog9 Hey, I remember I had an answer with at least 7 votes. The question title was something like "this simplest hello world program not working", the answer being ” v ". What happened to it?

1:55 AM

@bjb568 stackoverflow.com/questions/22306749/…

> This question was caused by a problem that can no longer be reproduced or a simple typographical error.

Get 10K already!

2:19 AM

Why did it need to be deleted? Isn't closure enough? Especially with the upvotes and 2 answers…

#rephoarders

3:09 AM

I get paid in 2 hours!

3:30 AM

Yay.

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/23540131/…

3:58 AM

+1, reputation is a measure of how much a user is trusted. People who review should be trusted over people who repwhore. However, this would mean fundamental changes to the way reputation works, so it likely won't get implemented. Something that has a higher chance would be a separate number special for moderation tasks. Also, count audit pass/failure as a key component of it to prevent more robo-reviewing. — bjb568 9 secs ago

4:41 AM

I want a custom license plate but I have no idea what to get. "ANIMUSON" is too long. :(

s/O//

5:23 AM

@animuson Can you get one there, that's cooooooool. You can try "ANIMUSN". That cut shorts one character.

5:40 AM

daily routine, SPAM meta.stackexchange.com/questions/233677/how-weight-loss-dew

ANMSN is awsm.

awsm ndid

Maybe I should do this:

Q: PHP4 to PHP5 conversion sprintf issue

5:59 AM

cv-pls stackoverflow.com/questions/24074066/…

hope shog will not ban anyone for closing that.

pff cv-pls stackoverflow.com/questions/24072731/…

0

I am trying to convert my old php code to PHP 5 but i am facing problems with the sprintf command. This is my old code. mysql_select_db($database_phpspry, $phpspry); $timenow = date("Y-m-d H:i:s"); $query_linkedvid = sprintf("SELECT * FROM a_vid WHERE groupid=46 AND (related = 'y' or airtime<='$...

php

wow, shog banned us

and it got 5 upvotes, 4 reopen, and the answer 4 upvotes

I think he is just too self-ruled.

@FinalContest I see what you did there :P

@DroidDev: stackoverflow.com/review/low-quality-posts/4994041

writing the meta post.

6:19 AM

I see it now.

please let me know if I can make it more polite, civil, etc

I would not like to get it lost on such nuance due to my language barrier.

gosh, the question got reopened

that means it is less personal towards shog, which is good.

@FinalContest IMO you are already quite humble in that post. It is OK. No need to change anything.

@DroidDev: OK, thanks.

np :)

"put on hold as unclear what you're asking by aninusion♦" FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

6:25 AM

yeah, saw that already :D

not surprised about that behavior, to be honest.

the community reopened, and now they need to reopen again :D

perhaps mods can reclose many times. :D

I may not agree with a review ban there, but that question is terrible and makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It deserves to be closed.

ok, some people disagree, but that is fine, that is not my main issue.

@animuson How is it unclear? OP has a problem using sprintf, answer explains OP is not using sprintf correctly.

I don't know about closing… it's borderline. But it's definitely not good enough for reopening.

"You have made too many incorrect reviews. For an example of a task you should have reviewed differently, see: http://stackoverflow.com/review/low-quality-posts/4994041
Come back in 18 hours to continue reviewing."

why cannot I click on the link?

should I report that separately on meta?

it is not a clickable link.

6:30 AM

@Stijn I think it's badly worded. You could edit it.

@Stijn: feel free to vote on reopen if you think it is not unclear.

it is fine to disagree with a mod, do not worry :)

@Stijn That answer is misleading. The way the OP uses it makes absolutely no difference. The function will just return the same string since there was nothing to do. The OP gives two blocks of code, the only difference between them is the switch from mysql_* commands to mysqli_* commands and just blurts out sprintf for some reason.

as well as fine to agree.

Without more detail on the error, we can't help them.

While the answer is correct, it is very unlikely it would solve the OP's problem.

what is worrying is that the banning community manager has not bothered to explain his point.

@animuson: 4 people disagree with you, but again, that is fine

we are not discussing the disagreement which can happen on technical matters.

@animuson: if the answer is crap, downvote it. That is what the downvote is for.

6:33 AM

I can't accurately vote on an answer's usefulness if I don't know what the question is.

then how can you say "very unlikely"?

Perhaps "This question appears to be off-topic because it lacks sufficient information to diagnose the problem." is a better close reason?

Sounds more accurate.

On a site note, does anyone know why the url is not clickable on the review page in the ban text? It would be handier to jump to it than copy/paste. :p — Final Contest 41 secs ago

@FinalContest I am able to click on that link. Don't know what's up with your account. It might be because of ban. :(

6:38 AM

@DroidDev: I do not think you can see my ban text... :P

@FinalContest I don't wish to see it. It is scary.

On a site note, does anyone know why the url is not clickable on the review page in the ban text? It would be handier to jump to it than copy/paste. :p — Final Contest 3 mins ago

/me shivering in fear. Btw, why clicking on the link first tells me that it might be malware, then I have to continue on my own risk to see that image.

good question, I got the same, but I dismissed the warning... perhaps that was a silly decision. I removed the link from my comment respectively.

Anyway, putting aside whether or not it's a good question, a review ban seems a bit harsh here.

6:44 AM

SO should be harsh. But not that harsh.

yeah, and I do not seem to be known for not doing anything against bad quality in general. :-P

Besides, it's unfair. I've reported robo-reviewers before with the flags being declined.

yeah, exactly, many robo-reviewers are going through the suggested edits these minutes, too.

Q: Prevent minor and invalid edits better

Oh, god. Yesh.

-2

I'm sick and tired of people repeatedly spamming the edit queue with minor edits. I want to punish the editors and robo-reviewers and prevent some of them from entering the queue in the first place. The audits are too easy It covers the vandalism reject reason, but what about the other ones? A ...

discussion edits

"I'm sick and tired of people repeatedly spamming the edit queue with minor edits" +1.

6:47 AM

again a bunch of code, with import statements and even the comments, which tells about the blog from where it is copied. String me="fedUp";

When moderator are elected, are they un-elected because the vote of old user is not available now ??

More true words have never been spoken

he makes a great point

yeah, +1'd.

I have always been wondering about this, too.

This is the first time, I am convinced that user should not lose his rep because of profile deletions

+1'd

+1'd

7:03 AM

Is there a reason for SHOUTING at us? Typing your question in ALL CAPS won't get you answers any faster, it's more difficult to read and understand, and quite frankly it's rather rude and annoying. Please don't do so. There are two Shift keys on your keyboard because it makes them easier to use when typing; please use them to properly case your text (which includes the title). You also need to edit to more clearly explain the problem, and include only the relevant portion of your code; posting a huge code dump and a "what's wrong" question isn't how things work here. Thanks. — Ken White 5 hours ago

I am not sure that comment is any OK. It is better to just edit the title?

@FinalContest agree

thanks, flagged as obsolete either way.

What have you tried so far? — NewWorld 9 mins ago

:p

Show what you have experimented with when pasting a question. — Final Contest 10 secs ago

:p

The title is also funny: "Qt how do I encode such code in QT"
"

Foo blabla FOO

7:19 AM

FOOFOOFOOFOOFOOFOOFOOFOOFOOFOOFOOFOO

:D

What have you tried Code/examples please. — JF it 14 hours ago

heh, it does not seem like this rule has much practice shog got introduced.

I was hit with it, but then I posted almost same thing.

@bjb568 Hey! whats up with red eyes? :)

:)

Buggy IDEs is the one thing google is perfect making at.

7:36 AM

Wut?

@bjb568 con... gratulations?

It's telling me that it's an audit in a huge banner?

After you did the review, I assume?

Quick question: which flag reason covers a question on SO that is not to do with computers whatsoever?

@Stijn Before.

7:42 AM

@NewWorld a custom one

@JanDvorak The one where you ask a moderator to look over it?

@NewWorld This question appears to be off-topic because it is about ducks. (other, i.e. going to chat and complaining)

oh. These only work as close votes for some reason. Sorry.

a VLQ flag will probably do

What happened here? meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/258583/…

Hmm OK, though the quality is not under scrutiny

7:43 AM

err... PAGE NOT FOUND

@bjb568 eh, why would that question get removed :s

@bjb568 I can't seem to find "other" under Flag > Close > Off-topic

only reason I can think of is those two accounts are OP's accounts

@NewWorld You need moar repz! Hurry up with it. In the mean time, complaining on chat will have to do (do it even if you have 3k). Yeah, VLQ too.

If you remembered his username you could totally find out. Drats!

7:46 AM

@NewWorld flagging as "other" isn't possible, but soon it will be

Ahh OK. Anyway, I'll never get to 3k

webcache.googleusercontent.com/…

Account suspended.

So… why?

Click through to his SO profile? The meta one never provides a reason.

@bjb568 now I'm sure those two removed users were sock puppets of the OP :)

@animuson Why? Fixitfixitfixitfixit

Good riddance, I say.

7:52 AM

@bjb568 But still I am convinced that he made a great point in that question.

Yeah. At least if it's a requested deletion.

The points have all been made already: Don't throw away all votes when a user is deleted

@animuson: Can you confirm something for me? I think I sussed out why stackoverflow.com/questions/18740209/… was deleted.

Was the question asker a sock puppet of stackoverflow.com/users/1126127/alexander perhaps?

I could not figure out why the question was auto-deleted by Community.

It had a positive score, two upvoted answers.

Yep.

but when I clicked on the score totals, they dropped from +3 to +1 and from +7 to +2.

Which made me notice the suspension.

7:56 AM

Funny when scores do that.

Right, so Community deleted that post automatically because the accounts were nuked.

The cache must've still contained the old, fraudulent scores.

Must have had quite an army of voters, that git.

Okay, now I know why I need to swallow a -20 score for that one. Case closed.

It keeps them for a while. I thought it automatically updates them all after some time, but maybe it doesn't pay attention to deleted posts or something? shrugs

Meta question draft abandoned.

It updated when I clicked the scores for their breakdown.

It will always do that, yes. The score gets recalculated when someone votes or requests the vote totals.

Hmmm... I wonder...

I probably just broke the universe.

:O

8:04 AM

@MartijnPieters Did you actually lose reputation for it or did it just give you a reputation history entry? The recalc doesn't indicate it gave you anything back from the undeletion.

@animuson I could have been capped that day and had enough to compensate

It currently has me down -20.

ah, no

It is entirely gone now.

I undeleted the answer only. experimenting

:-P

LOL!

Interesting how I got +10 on a question that no longer exists..

How long does it normally take for the system to figure out there's an undeleted answer on a deleted question?

We are about to find out?

8:09 AM

I'm supposed to be going to bed. Ha. I said I was going to bed at 2am and I still haven't.

what time is it with you?

It's 3am now.

afk

I'll just bookmark it and check on it in the morning to see if it got re-deleted.

Well, it's 1am here, so goodnight.

8:11 AM

@bjb568 goodnight, cya(maybe, because its saturday tomorrow :D)

8:25 AM

One hot question about muscle strength and now I am reading every good answer ever given on Physical Fitness

Sumurai8

Can I ask you guys for a second opinion on stackoverflow.com/review/reopen/4996305 ?

^ guys refers to all male, female, non-gender and alien entities here.

Oh sure, leave out glasses

I think the guy is just asking for logic which he needs to implement. If he knew what he is doing with the code, he would have posted only that part of code in which sword hit the fruit and not the whole class IMO.

I wouldn't have reopened it.

9:19 AM

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: HAVE 8 GB MEMORY BUT ONLY 4.75 IS USED. USING WINDOWS7 64 BITS. on superuser.com

9:38 AM

I have just done my first binding close vote \o/

Did you laugh maniacally?

WAHAHAHA!

Good. Never skip that opportunity.

@animuson: the answer has now been deleted again.

exactly 30 minutes after you undeleted it, in fact.

Tim Post

10:37 AM

Q: Why did the hero flush the toilet? A: Because it was his doodie

good morning all! I hate coming to the room and seeing that @rene is not here : (

@user0000000 morning

Tim Post

Q: What do you call two banana peels on the floor next to one another? A: Slippers.

Someone got the big book of dad jokes.

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/24046101/…

Q: Comment explaining downvote keeps on being deleted - why?

11:00 AM

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/16926/…

SPArchaeologist

@FinalContest Have a sit and take a drink my friend. If we are lucky we may see a nice fight soon :P

0

A poor question gets asked, I downvote and leave a comment explaining the down-vote along the lines of "-1 as this has been asked many times before and you haven't tried anything". The comment receives several upvotes as the question quickly gathers 4 downvotes Some time later, I revisit this qu...

discussion comments comment-flags

O_o? Why they migrated the question?

shouldn't the accepted behaviour be the same whatever site you may happen to be on???

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/84912/…

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: DATE CHANGING AUTOMATICALLY IN EXCEL SPREADSHEET on superuser.com

It seems like your caps-lock was accidentally stuck on while you were writing this question. Please rewrite your question that is more readable for us. — Jan Dvorak 15 secs ago

Why do I think he wanted to emphasize "for today date"? :D

11:07 AM

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/68312/…

@Bart maybe, but why?

With questions like those it's probably pointless to ask "why" ;)

Man, that all reminds me of my previous boss. She used to write angry emails in all caps. If you received an email that started out in all caps but didn't seem to be angry, you knew someone got in trouble just before. :D