Tavern on the Meta

"In the absence of agreement about its meaning, the term "social" is regarded as a fuzzy concept -Wikipedia. IMO though, "social" is now just a meaningless word that is used by corporations/ad agencies/old people who are just now jumping on the interweb bandwagon."

i find this really ignorant. and when did people start using wikipedia as a dictionary?

Michael Petrotta

For maybe 5, 7 years now.

mootinator

Meaningless?

Purmou

5:43 AM

grr i'm blind

mootinator

I didn't know there was argument over the meaning of "social"

Purmou

i think nearly every member on this site just automatically outlaws the entire concept of social networking

simply because they don't like it

Michael Petrotta

Why do you think his comment was ignorant?

Purmou

"used by corporations/ad agencies/old people who are just now jumping on the interweb bandwagon."

that whole statement in itself is just an unnecessary generalization

it shows a true lack of understanding on his part

Michael Petrotta

Speaking of a member of a corporation that is jumping on that bandwagon, I contend that that statement is, on the whole, accurate.

Purmou

5:45 AM

i think he makes it very clear that he dislikes social networking and makes a point of it by saying it's used by people who benefit the least from being online.

"meaningless word?"

really?

Michael Petrotta

yes.

Purmou

he's literally saying "people who don't get it use it to sound hip."

how is that not an ultimate statement of one's ignorance?

Michael Petrotta

yes, again.

please justify that leap.

Purmou

...

i've justified it already

Michael Petrotta

and again, that communication gap I was talking about.

Purmou

5:48 AM

are you a programmer?

Michael Petrotta

You may want to be grateful for that, for not being privy to a group of people who use "social" in that way.

yes I am.

Purmou

oh no, i'm ungrateful for how nearly everyone outlaws the term like it's a bad omen to use it

okay, do you dislike the concept of social networking? are you a fan of facebook?

Michael Petrotta

I'm not a fan of Facebook per se, but neither am I a detractor.

Are you?

Purmou

why are you not a fan of facebook?

mootinator

The hipsters subversively made the word "social" trendy in order to make corporations/ad agencies, etc. sound like a bunch of communists.

Michael Petrotta

5:50 AM

Forgive me for this, Purmo, but:

Purmou

Purmou*

Michael Petrotta

When did you stop beating your wife?

Purmou

what in all hell are you talking about?

Michael Petrotta

One is allowed to not participate in social media, without explicitly "not being a fan".

Loaded question

A loaded question is a question which contains a controversial or unjustified assumption, e.g., a presumption of guilt. Aside from being a logical fallacy, such questions may be used as a rhetorical tool: the question attempts to limit direct replies to be those that serve the questioner's agenda. This fallacy should be distinguished from that of begging the question, which offers a premise the plausibility of which depends on the truth of the proposition asked about, and which is often an implicit restatement of the proposition. The term "loaded question" is sometimes used to refer to...

Purmou

i don't think you understood what I was on to.

yes, i know what it is, thank you. :)

Lucifer

5:52 AM

@MichaelPetrotta Hi,

Michael Petrotta

Yeah, I don't think I understand either. (:

Hi @Lucifer.

Purmou

there was nothing to understand, goddamnit.

i asked a single question and you assumed i was on to something else.

Lucifer

Its been long time seeing you on SO, today first time you are in a chat room @MichaelPetrotta

Michael Petrotta

I tried, I really did...

Purmou

so anyways--why are you not necessarily a fan of facebook?

Michael Petrotta

5:55 AM

There's more noise there than I'd like, and it reveals more about the people that I care about than I'd really care to know.

animuson

I dislike Facebook just because it makes people act like everyone on their friends list cares about every little thing they're doing during the day.

Michael Petrotta

I like the subtlety of other forms of communication - in person, text, phone, email.

Purmou

Aha! exactly--that goes by the assumption that everyone on facebook posts about all the stupid little shit they do.

mootinator

@animuson Perhaps your friends are a bunch of narcissists.

animuson

Perhaps, it doesn't help I don't have many friends.

Michael Petrotta

5:56 AM

I feel like Facebook really lays bare the most stereotypical elements of a person.

In an unfair way.

Purmou

@MichaelPetrotta: You don't believe it's time we move on? That's like somebody who refuses to play new console games because he prefers older games.

Michael Petrotta

And not just friends.

mootinator

@MichaelPetrotta Tell me more about lays bare the most stereotypical elements of a person.

Michael Petrotta

Family too.

Purmou

do you not ever think it shows potential for going beyond that stupid use?

Michael Petrotta

5:57 AM

@mootinator: Why do you want to tell me more about lays bare the most stereotypical elements of a person?

I'll believe in that potential when it's shown.

Purmou

@MichaelPetrotta: Do me a favor--read this whole blurb I gave. chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/974919#974919

oh, sorry. since when do we sit around and wait for things to happen?

Michael Petrotta

Since I don't work for Facebook.

Until then, I'll do my own thing.

Purmou

did jeff atwood and joel spolsky just wait for an awesome Q&A site that finally brought together all the programmers in the world (ideally, of course)?

or did they make it happen?

animuson

For some reason, most of my Facebook friends like posting silly poems that I don't care enough to analyze for meaning.

mootinator

@MichaelPetrotta That is quite interesting.

Purmou

5:59 AM

so do mine.

Michael Petrotta

Are you proposing to do something yourself, @Purmou?

Purmou

No, I'm proposing that people stop blacklisting "social networking" simply because of what the majority of its users have, unfortunately, made of it.

the majority of users that join Stack Overflow every day post some pretty bad questions.

We could agree that the majority of the site is lackluster questions.

Michael Petrotta

I don't blacklist anything, myself.

I'm just not a fan of Facebook, specifically, other than as an investment or advertising opportunity.

Purmou

Did you read my little blurb?

Michael Petrotta

Or as a way to keep up with news of my nieces.

I did.

I don't see much meat there. Sorry, but.

Purmou

6:02 AM

did it fill you in on what i'm talking about a little bit?

Michael Petrotta

Not really. Are you proposing something?

It sounds like what you're saying is that social interaction online is important.

Purmou

okay, basically, i think social networking can and should go far beyond stupid little updates that people post.

Michael Petrotta

No argument here.

Purmou

beyond that simple social interaction that you can get in every day life.

Michael Petrotta

Such as?

Purmou

6:04 AM

i think that a huge part of learning, and this is what my question was about, was communicating what you've learned.

when you're able to teach others and tell people about it, you can prove you've truly learned and understood it.

animuson

I personally despise all the advertising Facebook tries to shove in my face.

Purmou

this is the problem with modern schooling--you can get by with memorizing what they "teach" you

animuson

Like "a friend is now using such and such app" - who the f*** cares!?

Michael Petrotta

Heh. That's not what my schooling was like.

Purmou

you're already connected to your friends on facebook--through them you have access to lots of other people. and even more people. and even more.

imagine communicating the things you learn to the entire world

Michael Petrotta

6:05 AM

Ok - what form would that take?

What are you proposing?

Purmou

say you're studying history. you learn about world war II, and through those studies, you learn about the holocaust, as is natural.

Lix

gmorning all

Purmou

you then find how this can relate to today. why are you actually looking at this information? what significance does it have relative to today's world?

then you'll more than likely find out about religious oppression in Iran over the last two decades or so

Michael Petrotta

Ok...

Purmou

and so what have you learned? this kind of serious intolerance goes on in the real world. what should you do? sit around and let it happen and then research more when the time comes?

you could start a group on facebook, for example, where you teach the things you've learned about the subject and make sure other people know.

you can make sure other people find out about what goes on in the world today.

Michael Petrotta

6:08 AM

Now we're getting somewhere.

Purmou

that's a giant part of who we are as a society--understanding what's happening all over the world.

and how can you do that with a vast audience?

facebook.

twitter, tumblr, instagram (do it visually!)

or, for god's sake, get on stack exchange and share the same kind of knowledge on the history SE

animuson

The problem with Facebook is that there are no limits. People just click like on anything that their friends support or gets advertised to them because they want to "support the cause" and rarely ever follow through on any sort of commitment.

Michael Petrotta

Do you think that Facebook is the best means to address this? Or SE?

Purmou

both!

they are both gateways through which this massive communication is made possible

that was the basis of my question, which was unfortunately closed.

i was wondering if the site was built with that revolutionary concept in mind.

Michael Petrotta

Or are they existing portals that are popular for other reasons?

Purmou

6:10 AM

facebook and SE?

of course they're popular for other reasons--they aren't explicitly used for what i've been talking about

Michael Petrotta

And maybe the best, most efficient, most revolutionary tools are yet to be created?

Purmou

but i believe they should

Yes. Yes! exactly!

as the world grows, and as technology becomes greater and greater, we will be able to develop this concept more strongly.

i know many other people feel the same way--this should be the focus of the internet right now. every generation has something it's known for--let this one be known for revolutionizing education as a whole.

Michael Petrotta

The Volkswagen Bug is the most popular vehicle in the history of the world (I just made that up).
Is is the best way to haul cargo?

Purmou

that's my goal. i'm only 14 but i've spent most of my teen life, and expect to spend a great majority of my entire one, revolutionizing the realm of education and globalizing it in such ways I've described today.

Michael Petrotta

Or should we find the best tool on its own merits?

animuson

6:12 AM

Please do, the education system now sucks.

Purmou

That's my goal, @animuson.

I learned how to code cause I thought it was cool.

Michael Petrotta

Just because SE is popular, does that mean it's the best tool to carry out the goals you're envisioning?

Purmou

maybe not--but think about it. does it not fit directly with the concept?

people who have learned--either just beginning to or already have, for most of their lives--come together and communicate their knowledge

Michael Petrotta

I think it might damage SE to do so.

Purmou

they teach what they've learned

Lix

6:13 AM

Does any one have an idea how I could find a highly voted post by a deleted user?

Purmou

it's not something that will happen--it already occurs

Take Stack Overflow, for instance.

Someone asks a question.

Michael Petrotta

I think you need to create something with that revolutionary goal in mind.

Purmou

Oh, I'm working on it every second.

Michael Petrotta

What are you waiting for, Purmou?

Purmou

...I don't really know. :P

Michael Petrotta

6:15 AM

Do you have a job to go to, like the rest of us?

Purmou

No sirree.

Michael Petrotta

Strike while the iron's hot!

And add something besides Lorem ipsum dolor to your blog (:

Purmou

haha

i'm actually still working on an engine

animuson

I was going to write a blog about the concept of thinking outside the box and never got around to it. :/

Purmou

I've been using MySQL till now--I'm considering switching to PDO

But I have a huge list of blog entries I'm ready to write.

Michael Petrotta

6:17 AM

Ok, cool. Time to go to bed, cause I have a job to go to in the morning, to pay the bills. Sure be nice to be 14 again.

Good conversation.

Purmou

Haha, yeah. Thank you for this fulfilling conversation. I'm so glad you understand me better now. :)

animuson

I hated being 14. Maybe 16 or 17?

Purmou

Hey, 14 is pretty awesome right now.

animuson

I remember I'd always go to the library in middle school and work on random programming things. The librarian at the time didn't understand what I was doing and she started kicking me out.

Purmou

people are relatively impressed with what I can do.

i taught a web design elective at my school

but either way, i'm still motivated to learn way more

i've just scratched the surface

animuson

6:20 AM

My high school librarians would always stand over my shoulder and watch me as I typed things. Sooooo awkward. o.o

Purmou

people don't do that to me.

how old are you now?

mootinator

Librarians were creepier in the 90s

animuson

I'm 21 now.

Lucifer

Hi @Lix

16

Q: Old questions in newest questions tab

This is a duplicate to it-shows-old-question-in-newest-tab (which was closed). It happened yesterday for me too the same time as it did for the poster of that question. After a few minutes it was working again. Now it happens again. In newest quesions tab, questions from yesterday are displayed...

Lix

@luc - hey man...

Lucifer

6:22 AM

this happened again

on SO

Lix

oh wow - u right... all from may 18...

Purmou

@animuson: 2005...lol

Lucifer

Yes

animuson

You'd be surprised how non-technically advanced my school district was 5 years ago...

The library had 3 computers.

mootinator

When I was in grade 12, my school had a Novell network.

Which had a default password.

Purmou

6:24 AM

know what's stupid?

my school changed all the laptops to run Ubuntu.

they were all preloaded with Windows.

some loser said "oh ubuntu's open source"

mootinator

Said password could be used to manipulate library records and grades.

animuson

@mootinator: Most school districts still use Novell. It's advanced over the years...

Every student had their own login/password and even their own hard drive on the network that only they and administrators could access.

If you saved anything directly on the computer, desktop, whatever, it got wiped off when the computer restarted.

mootinator

Of course, we told them about this, and were told they weren't going to do anything about it and that we could get expelled for noticing in the first place, or some such empty threat.

animuson

When I was leaving high school, they were implementing ways to prevent students using flash drives on the computers without administrator approval.

Purmou

encript the USB drives? :P

animuson

6:28 AM

Luckily such restrictions did not exist in the computer lab where I spent most of my last two years (where the rules probably should have been more strict).

We were the only students in the school that got to use Firefox instead of the dreaded IE7!

Lucifer

My school has never Computer/laptop, not till date :(

Purmou

@Lucifer: That must be a traumatic experience.

can someone elaborate on this comment for me?

animuson

When I came back my senior year their default installations didn't have the Macromedia products activated and it took me like 2 months to get them to fix it. -.-

Purmou

Since you wanted to know, I voted to close as not constructive because this is, at best, beating a dead horse: a cursory search would've answered your question, but you seem to reject previous discussions about this in what appears to be a thinly-veiled attempt to pimp your TEDx talk about your own answer to the question. — Mark Trapp 3 hours ago

I feel he's trying to accuse me of promoting myself.

But I need confirmation of what exactly he's saying.

Lucifer

@Purmou Not much, actually I am from India

animuson

6:32 AM

Lol new Harry Potter proposal on Area51

I should probably go to bed... I have a test tomorrow. -.-

Lucifer

@Lix Were you busy yesterday ?

Lix

6:51 AM

@luc - you could say busy.... I'd rather call it "a day off" :P

Lucifer

Lucky you, :)

Lix

haha - it was way over due :P

Lucifer

okey, well i am going for lunch , see ya :)

Lix

cya!

Lucifer

7:24 AM

hmm.. Back

Lucifer

7:48 AM

ok, moving to Client side, see ya @Lix

Lucifer

8:28 AM

hmm Back

rekire

9:17 AM

hi@all

hm since the small downtime my rep changes are not shown but visible at stackoverflow.com/reputation strange...

awoodland

does the recalc button make them show?

rekire

not tried yet sec...

yes it does

awoodland

probably some background job/caching thing is stuck or lagging behind

I'd guess it'll catchup/reawaken soonish

rekire

ok just something other what does the colors mean on the flag-summar?

awoodland

@rekire colours?

oh you mean on your flag summary?

purple/greyish background means deleted

there aren't any other colours besides that really (except the red background for spam/offensive and the red-ish colour of declined messagse)

rekire

9:29 AM

ah of cause

awoodland

that's pretty universal way of showing something as deleted in other places you can see deleted things

rekire

well one of offensive i have too. but the question is deleted...

a little bit wired in my opinion that something what was deleted could be offensive

awoodland

it means that you flagged it offensive and then it was subsequently deleted (probably as a result of your flag!)

rekire

I don't understand that. I thought that offensive means that I did something bad.

awoodland

no

the only way things in the flag summary mean you did something bad was declined (or possibly disputed, but disputed is pretty neutral)

if it says spam/offensive and shows as helpful (+ deleted) it means that you flagged it as spam/offensive and that was correct

spam/offensive flags are a bit different to other flags so they get shown slightly differently

but that red background+white text thing is always there because of your flag

rekire

9:37 AM

that special case is offensive declined and deleted... does that mean that my flag was very wrong but the question was deleted anyhow?

awoodland

unless it says declined your flag was most likely right

the only bad outcome from a flag for you is text that looks like "declined - a moderator reviewed your flag but ...."

rekire

now it begins to make sense

awoodland

so the three basic outcomes for any flag are helpful/disputed/declined

and for any kind of flag that's the primary feedback you get

rekire

I see

awoodland

you can often see what action a moderator took (deletion/close being the most obvious), but often it might be an edit/comment (or a private message/suspension and a few other things but that's less obvious)

Lucifer

10:57 AM

-3

Q: how to add coordinates for a custom image map

I want to create an application that loads an image as a map (city rail of sydney) and add coordinates to it. Can anyone has an idea how to do it?

support android

-1

Q: why i can't ask new questions any more?

Possible Duplicate: What can I do when getting “Sorry, we are no longer accepting questions/answers from this account”? (the answer is here, in this post) I know this question may be asked before , but honestly i read the previous posts about the same topic. And i don't k...

feature-request stackoverflow asking-questions

These kind of question is increasing my flag count only :P

Lucifer

11:13 AM

bye everybody

Tim jadarnel27

12:21 PM

@TimManishEarth When you don't have quality, go for quantity =)

Tim ManishEarth

@Timjadarnel27 Aah

jadarnel27

1:05 PM

I am...un-Tim'ddd!

Lix

1:18 PM

@jad - welcome back ;)

Daniel Fischer

0

Q: LLVM/Clang vs. GCC performance w.r.t. quality of generated code

Is one of these two generally regarded as being superior to the other with respect to the quality of generated code (from C/C++ source)?

c++ c gcc compiler llvm-clang

jadarnel27

@Lix I could no longer take the pressure.

Daniel Fischer

Close as not constructive, anyone?

jadarnel27

No way, that questions is awesome.

Lix

Well.. a very merry un-timday to you!

Tim Yi Jiang

1:27 PM

/facepalm

Lix

@timY-sherlok-jiang-holmes ;)

jadarnel27

2:06 PM

The Tic-Tac-Toe game in this user profile is rather clever =)

6

Lix

Ha :P just won ;)

is is quite cool :P

Anonymous

2:20 PM

It looks so seamless. I guess using off-site links and redirecting back would be more reliable, but the cool would drop by about 17%.

Lix

hehe

mootinator

Kind of neat.

Quick, someone use that concept to put a 15 puzzle on their profile :P

Moshe

Hey all. c++ final in 5 minutes and I'm on the wrong side of the train.

mootinator

Whoops.

Lix

oh noes...

whats up there @mos - you were looking for me the other day?

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM A

2:27 PM

Hey all

Lix

yo @ama

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM A

@jadarnel27 whoa. howd they do that?

Bart

Hi guys. With regards to the question on the flag queue (meta.stackoverflow.com/q/133394/161198) I commented that it might be worth looking at adjusting the threshold for the ability to participate. Does any of you know whether this has been discussed to death? Would it be worth making it an actual suggestion? I couldn't find anything with regards to it.

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM A

@Lix shalooom!

jadarnel27

@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA I know you probably don't know much about PHP, but that is how they did it.

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM A

2:31 PM

@jadarnel27 haha I know a lot abt php. im just lost as to how they embedded it on a SE profile

Neal, New York, NY

35.6k 6 27 56

jquery javascript php html mysql css ajax

Moshe

@lix yea, there are articles all over the web bout that Internet rally.

Whetevs. I'm over it.

Lix

did they succeed? :P

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM A

@Moshe haha the citifield thing? they blocked traffic in brooklyn for no reason...

jadarnel27

@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA I see my subtle sarcasm was lost on you. Oh well.

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM A

@jadarnel27 :-P

Lix

2:35 PM

@ama - no - he is talking about an internet protest by religious people in Israel....

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM A

@Lix ahhh ha

@Lix that was prob happening at the same time as the thing in NY

Lix

ahh... could be could be...

Popular Demand

@Bart I feel like using rep in the flagging system has been tossed around, but not since flag weight was introduced... can't think of a specific discussion through.

Bart

@PopularDemand As I said in the comment, I have no clue what effect it would have (I don't know how many extra hands to help that would results in). But recently there have been quite a few comments here and there about the amount of flags. I might just suggest it if I think it out a bit more later on.

jadarnel27

I never noticed the tooltip on the "rollback" link. "sets the current revision to this version of the post, resetting any offensive votes" What does that mean?

Popular Demand

2:45 PM

It means offensive flags. (The old name for "it is not welcome in our community" flags.)

jadarnel27

Oh. Interesting, I didn't know rolling back did that. Thanks @Pop.

Bart

Resetting any offensive flags on that particular revision I hope?

Tim Yi Jiang

I don't really understand why MSO needs a bulletin board

Is there a MMSO somewhere I should go look for?

jadarnel27

@Bart I imagine any offensive flags that occurred after the point you rolled back to.

Tim Yi Jiang

Also, I just spelt bulletin correctly without using spellcheck. I'll give myself a cookie for that

Bart

2:50 PM

@jadarnel27 Yeah, guess so. Damn, there goes my evil scheme to be offensive and remove any potential flags... Now me and my sock puppets need to find another way to keep ourselves busy.

Popular Demand

All offensive flags. But that doesn't happen if you rollback your own question. It happens on a rollback by a user with high enough rep to edit other people's posts. — Mark Biek Oct 29 '08 at 14:11

Note the date on that comment, though.

jadarnel27

@PopularDemand So it might still be all flags.

Hmmm. I'm not good at thinking up ways to abuse features, so I don't know if that's a bad thing or not.

Popular Demand

3:08 PM

I guess someone could post hate speech, cover it up with an edit and then roll the edit back, just to eliminate valid flags? But rolling back bumps, so new users should then theoretically see the stuff and cast new flags. Or, possibly, nobody will see the slurs after this clever trickery, and therefore they won't flag, but then what was the point of putting it there in the first place?

Tim Stone

@Shog9 ^

jadarnel27

@PopularDemand Ah yes, throw edit revision deletion in there, and you've got a real ~~party~~ mess.

Tim Stone

(just in case the implementation of this also actually allows for undetected trickery)

That comment is super-old, but I don't recall off-hand anything about that functionality.

Popular Demand

If you're going to alert Shog, at least give me a courtesy heads-up so I can escape.

Tim Stone

That wouldn't be nearly as entertaining!

Shog9

3:18 PM

@TimYiJiang for this

@PopularDemand devious...

Tim Yi Jiang

@Shog9 Hmmm, nice. I still want MMSO though

I mean, it's not impossible to pipe [meta-tag:meta*] questions to the board :P

Shog9

It's been a while since I thought about the flag - rollback behavior; originally that was intended to prevent automatic deletion in response to vandalism. But flags have changed a lot since then; I'm not sure quite how it works now.

jadarnel27

@TimYiJiang You should hang out with this guy:

Steven Jeuris, Belgium

1.7k 2 20

feature-request discussion support status-completed questions tags stackexchange

Tim Yi Jiang

@jadarnel27 ಠ_ಠ NO

jadarnel27

@TimYiJiang No? I'm sure he would be all about your MMSO idea =P

Tim Yi Jiang

3:23 PM

@jadarnel27 *clears throat* GOD DAMN FUCK NO

jadarnel27

Hahaha

Popular Demand

...whoa. Chill. (What did I miss?)

Tim Yi Jiang

*twitch*

jadarnel27

@PopularDemand Whenever someone makes a joke about a need for a "meta meta", I think of that Steven Jeuris guy going on and on about it for weeks.

Tim Stone

wheels @TimYiJiang off to the insane asylum.

"This is your brain normally. This is your brain on metameta."

Popular Demand

3:27 PM

@TimStone You mean he wasn't already there? (For the dissociative identity disorder, of course.)

Tim Yi Jiang

*twitch*

Tim Stone

@PopularDemand His case was just under review.

jadarnel27

3:44 PM

One of my coworkers was walking by my desk. They stopped, picked up my desk phone, and moved it about 2-3 feet out of my reach (to an adjoining empty desk). They looked at me, smiled, and said "Now you have more room on your desk!" Then they walked away.

I don't want to have to stand up to answer my phone =(