Tavern on the Meta - 2011-05-05

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12:32 AM

@drachenstern - There?

I'm back. Almost done with this feature, getting ready to push to testers.

1:04 AM

@drachenstern - I got it running. You should see the banners running in game now, in the next TestFlight

@Zypher If you are here (or when) expect another TestFlight shortly.

@TylerChacha - What's up?

@Moshe Not much, just did more work on my language

Cool.

Just added visual feedback (a banner) to Nippon for earned achievements. Uploading to testers now.

1:20 AM

Eventually I'm going to create a grease monkey script to hide messages containing the word 'Nippon'

2:06 AM

Hehe. Sorry.

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@drachenstern whiteboarding or waterboarding?

3:13 AM

> Red Hat answers Microsoft Azure with OpenShift dev cloud

I soooo misread that.

9 hours later…

11:55 AM

Yay, my free SSH account is activated!

12:25 PM

Morning.

12:40 PM

Afternoon.

Evenin'

Mornin

#!/usr/bin/env python
import random
print random.choice(["Afternoo", "Aftern00n", "After12"])

26

Q: Make an application that displays text at random that conforms to the specified regex

OK, so in the spirit of Code-Golf, I'm trying out something new here: Code-Bowling. In golf, you try to get the lowest score (smallest application, most elegant, etc). In Bowling, you try to get the highest score. So if you follow, the goal of a Code-Bowling challenge is to make the biggest, m...

string language-agnostic random fun code-bowling

1:11 PM

mosheberman.com/wordpress/?p=403

Thoughts on my blog post on App Store reviews?

1 hour later…

2:17 PM

Feature request: room owners get more op-style powers (ability to ban from room, kick from room, etc)

Rebecca Chernoff

2:29 PM

We have to keep some of the goodies for mods q:

eih

fair enough I guess

2:51 PM

@irc what rooms do you own?

PHP on SO

3:08 PM

Hello

@RebeccaChernoff I'd really appreciate the ability to kick people from the channel. You mods have have ban...

Anyone having a few seconds, can you give me a comparison of download times and latency for sstatic.stackexchange.netdna-cdn.com/stackoverflow/all.css vs. sstatic.net/stackoverflow/all.css please?

Rebecca Chernoff

@balpha (Time, Latency): CDN = { 206, 53 }, OURS = { 165, 61 }

have you tried few times? the first request to the cdn is slower than subsequent ones

and you were probably the first one to hit it

Rebecca Chernoff

Yeah, I did it a few times and then used a single time. I can do it a few more times and give you all the numbers if you want

if above numbers are a good representation, that's fine

just a little surprising, since geoff and nick had much better values

3:19 PM

I'm showing Time = Latency on both DL

16 on link1 and 60 on link 2

those are consistent and regular

for a 200 response or a 304?

the first would be pretty epic

or do you own your own backbone? :)

I'll recheck on the response, but I guess it was a 200

we don't own our own backbone, no

I also didn't clear cache, but it still has to query the resource for a ctrl f5 right?

I think that depends on the browser, they're not quite consistent on "with which key do we request how much"

yeah, so take it with a grain of salt I guess

If I had wget on this box I could give you better stats, but I don't, so c'est la vie (and that means I'm not going to download it atm either)

that's fine :) thanks for testing

Rebecca Chernoff

3:23 PM

Using Chrome's Dev Tools Network Tab and running all 10 cdn followed by 10 against our sstatic.
    Run #	CDN Time	CDN Latency	OUR Time	OUR Latency
    1.	206		53		157		55
    2.	205		52		157		55
    3.	55		52		163		56
    4.	206		52		159		55
    5.	205		53		158		56
    6.	206		52		161		55
    7.	206		53		161		59
    8.	207		53		157		55
    9.	207		55		158		55
    10.	207		55		163		59

so subsequent testing to verify the 200 (which both were) changed to 45/15 and 180/115 (which really makes me scratch my head)

interesting

that's CDN vs static

Rebecca Chernoff

GAH, stupid formatting

@drachenstern is that "latency/latency and download/download" or "download/latency download/latency"?

3:26 PM

D/L D/L

Rebecca Chernoff

Pretend those columns line up all pretty still. >_<

@drachenstern ah cool, that's pretty awesome then

so @RebeccaChernoff is the only one so far were the CDN is worse

so for my needs, the CDN is better than the static

Rebecca Chernoff

Well, if only run #3 against the CDN was more popular (;

@RebeccaChernoff you're not by chance tunneling to SEI are you?

Rebecca Chernoff

3:28 PM

no

ok, was curious if there was something in there to skew your results. Are you on cable?

Rebecca Chernoff

user image

Not quite the 24/3 UVerse says I should have, but pretty close.

user image

and a second result speedtest.net/result/1282809933.png but not to clutter the room with imagespam

user image

Hey Nyus, where in Hungary are you?

3:44 PM

Kiskunmajsa

My ISP says 15M/900k (Down/Up).

I have a buddy in (or around?) Budapest ... How common are the parts of his name? Sandor Acs (but it may have formatting) ... like in the US John Smith would be considered "very common" but Cole Brand is not so common, but not entirely uncommon.

I have no idea, I don't know about him.

I didn't figure you know him

I was asking about culturally if those names were prevalent in any form

Like take for example me.

Wesley is fairly uncommon where I come from but common enough in America.

Acheson is really rare everywhere

When I was born Cole was a very uncommon first name. But lately it is one of the top ones for people I know with kids.

3:55 PM

I kinda thought cole wasn't your first name

well it's not my FIRST name

but it's the one I use

I assumed that cole was your surname really

I've a poncy middle name

So my URL should give my name away pretty clearly. Notice that rarely use the first name except when I must. Even my resume only says the initial.

jcolebrand.com

yeah I thought brand was a noun not proper noun

As in brand name

4:11 PM

It is that as well

And yet when I use that expression to clarify that my last name is not spelled brandt or brant or brandz or bernard or any of a dozen other potential last names, I get really dumb looks.

I figured everybody would understand "my last name is brand as in a brand name, or Campbell's soup brand" (which I know used to be a common thing to hear said)

easier than acheson

as often as I have to hand people my business card, I think not

the joe cole brand brand has a ring to it

Not Joe

Wait for me to build my personal website, I'm sure it'll make more sense then. :p

okay

4:26 PM

Hiya folks.

Hyia Moshe

Hi. One sec, switching to computer.

Hi @Wes, sup?

@drachenstern - For once, I actually just went ahead and coded something. Pushed it over TestFlight.

is that the new notification bit on awards?

yeah, I keep seeing the same three or four over and over and over and ...

and also you've got a case where some stacking occurs, but I can't seem to screenshot it

@drachenstern I know about the stacking. It's semi-intentional.

k

4:38 PM

It's because otherwise they'd overlap.

It was the simplest way to do it.

But, the repetition is an issue.

Getting a screenshot shouldn't be terribly hard, just bear in mind that they show for about 1 second or so.

@Moshe Sorry got called away

np

@Wes What's up?

Not much to be honest

Just hanging arround.

Ok.

Hey, I tested the zero score didn't I? I can test this too :p

4:43 PM

@drachenstern What's "this"?

capturing the multiple repeated overlays that are offenders so you can trace the logic

Oh, ok.

@drachenstern I was actually quite lazy in implementing that overlay. I just show the overlay when the achievement is reported, if it's at 100%.

Whenever you log in, it reports reminisce, apparently.

That is an easy fix.

It reports the other ones, when you've completed them.

Since Game Center achievements can't go down in progress, it's sort of okay to re-report achievements.

That is, unless you're alerting the user.

except it's annoying to have it constantly popup and remind me that I've already got it

Now it seems as though I'm going to have to track those...

and two at a time

4:52 PM

@drachenstern Right.

The doubles is only "Reminisce", IIRC.

So a fix should be easy.

Just keep a list of earned achievements.

If the achievement is already earned, you don't show it again.

I just have to check one thing though - how I'm caching offline achievements.

The banners only appear after a successful report to Game Center.

I'm so jealous of you all!

user image

@Trufa Nice report.

And at home is even slower

news.cnet.com/iphone-5-concept-for-dream-notifications-system/…

5:07 PM

@Moshe nice

Uruguay, hmm? @Trufa can you do me a favor?

1 hour ago, by balpha

Anyone having a few seconds, can you give me a comparison of download times and latency for http://sstatic.stackexchange.netdna-cdn.com/stackoverflow/all.css vs. http://sstatic.net/stackoverflow/all.css please?

all my other test cases so far were in the US

user image

@Trufa I should be jealous of you

5:34 PM

521ms dns lookup

65ms connecting

78 ms waiting

@balpha sorry

just saw you message

I did not understand what you need

(but would gladly do it)

@Wes ok that is slower, I have 2 mb/s at home

but most people do have one

the first one:
Total Total Size: 11468 bytes
Total Time: 0.169958 seconds
DNS lookup took: 0.002087 seconds
Connection took: 0.022304 seconds
Generation took: 0.020351 seconds
Download Speed: 180339 bytes/second

Second One:
Total Size: 11468 bytes
Total Time: 0.276597 seconds
DNS lookup took: 0.083677 seconds
Connection took: 0.128687 seconds
Generation took: 0.101667 seconds
Download Speed: 41461 bytes/second

nice

@Trufa we're looking at putting our static content (javascript file, css, and so on) on a CDN, so I'm curious what kind of improvement that gives to people all over the world

@balpha Using joomlaperformance.com/component/option,com_performance/… (I designed it for HTML, but works for this sort of thing)

so the question is: what's the download speed for those two URLs for you?

the first one is a CDN we're looking at, the second one is our own sstatic.net

the files are identical

5:44 PM

@balpha ok, that I got, not sure where to look for those

what browser are you using?

chrome

ohh

found it

I need to record right?

I think you have to have the dev tools open when you make the request

Yes, then it will populate

the numbers are then on the "Network" tab

5:46 PM

@ircmaxell what do you gather the stats with

is firebug okay?

It seems a little random

until a couple of versions ago, you could tell chrome to always record the data. I still miss that :\

@Wes A custom built tool. It examines the connection and determines quite a bit off of what specifically goes on. But you can do something similar with Chrome or Firebug

yeah, firebug is fine

user image

this is chrome:

5:49 PM

Hard cause I need to clear my cache

user image

@Wes Press ctrl + f5

it will clear the cache for the one page (request)

@trufa can you use ctrl+f5 so the status is 200, not 304?

304 means the data wasn't really transferred; the server just said "it's the same as before"

which you can still get latency information from, so it's not completely useless...

user image

Yep, got it

5:51 PM

cool

user image

and one second

user image

I don't have an image editor and alt+print doesn't seem to work in ubuntu

looks great, thanks a lot

you should use a different DNS server, though :)

@Wes where are you located?

Gibraltar

5:53 PM

user image

this is the NOT cdn one

nice, thanks a bunch. Looks like @RebeccaChernoff is still the only one who prefers sstatic

@balpha let me just check I did not mess up

@balpha Me? Just got DHCP assigned dns

I was just noticing your DNS lookup time. 500ms seems a lot

@Wes You could use 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 (google's IP addresses for DNS)

5:57 PM

Thats probably not local

@balpha just in case. here are the final results, becuse I think I had messed up the screenshots

for sstatic.stackexchange.netdna-cdn.com/stackoverflow/all.css

user image

for the second one sstatic.net/stackoverflow/all.css

user image

BTW the chat is randomly uploading pictures :)

suuuuure :)

so it seems for you it actually doesn't make much of a difference

@balpha not really, and the cdn is slower in any case

the results were quite consistent.

while for Wes, the time is cut in half

@balpha but they are heavily cached right?

6:03 PM

@Trufa your first two images were the other way around though

@balpha yes

I messed up the first time

ah, k

though the order of the folder was the other way round

@balpha why don't you compress them?

we do

user image

50K is the actual filesize, 11K is what you downloaded

@balpha ohh that make sense!

So I you need anything else, just ask :)

I ahve to leave now!

6:09 PM

okay, thanks for testing!

@balpha no problem!!

Rebecca Chernoff

@balpha gotta be unique (;

I'm pretty sure the internet is just optimized for forwards-facing smilies

2

@Trufa I suspect it's faked, bottom line is missing and its corners aren't rounded. I have to go now anyway, see you in about a hour.

Rebecca Chernoff

@balpha rofl

6:25 PM

user image

6:37 PM

code.google.com/intl/pt-BR/more/table

7:15 PM

Does anyone know how much it costs to post apps on BlackBerry App World?

7:30 PM

ONE BILLION DOLLARS

plus tax

minus the $999,999,999 discount

so, in effect, $1 for item, and $70,000,000 dollars tax

So it's $70,000,001 dollars. :P

7:49 PM

Result of my research today: There are two kinds of CDNs. Those that have information on their website, and those that have buzzwords and a link to a "data sheet" that contains no data, just more buzzwords, and is hidden behind a contact data form, so their sales people can spam you. Which they will.

Well, there's a third kind. The ones that nobody knows about

Because they deliver no content? :)

Nah, more like because you can't afford them :-X

Rebecca Chernoff

Is there a kind that likes me? (;

That kind of information was on none of the websites.

But I doubt it.

7:54 PM

user image

Who canceled the stars on this?

11 mins ago, by ircmaxell

minus the $999,999,999 discount

When documenting a constant, how would you you say "a decimal greater than zero"?

just call it epsilon

@Moshe If it's a constant, why do you document it? It should be for internal consumption only (at least according to some clean-code people)

@Moshe A positive number/float.

7:55 PM

@ircmaxell Well, for myself. I'm using constants to control how long to show a utility banner onscreen.

Like "You earned the Awesomeness achievement."

@ircmaxell Good point, I'll write to the ECMAScript committee and tell them to get rid of Math.PI

2

Fair enough, but why would you need to document it saying "a decimal greater than 0"...

@balpha I would agree with doing that. It should be a method instead of a constant...

"We are all made of stars." --Moby

Especially since PI is not actually a constant (the exact value does vary)

user image

Rebecca Chernoff

7:59 PM

@balpha If they don't provide this information explicitly, you should not waste your time with that company.

@Moshe If it's a constant, why should it have boundaries on the value (type and range)?

@ircmaxell Because I can tweak it in future builds.

It's a "readability" constant.

And it's used in several places.

eih...

I'm with @Moshe on this

I can see the justification, I just think there may be other ways of solving it

8:01 PM

should he rather put 0.1 in twenty places?

even though they're the same number, and if changed, they would all have to be changed?

@balpha Not at all, but a constant should be used internally for things that never change. Variables and configuration settings belong for this type of thing

@ircmaxell Like what?

@ircmaxell that may be true for a library, but not for a self-contained app

@Moshe Using a configuration setting, or a variable, etc... Just using a constant outside of the scope of the declaration feels unclean

This is an iPhone app. It's a lot simpler to put it in a constants.h file than have to make a PLIST and parse it.

@ircmaxell I hear that.

8:04 PM

I've found two ways to check if an object is zero in Ruby. (I know it has a built-in zero?) method.

@Moshe I'm not saying not to do it. Just saying there may be a cleaner way (which may not be worth it)

brb

phone

#!/usr/bin/env ruby
class Object
    def a_zero?
        this == -this
    end

    def b_zero?
        this == 0
    end
end

back

8:48 PM

booooo

I have a need for a bit of code, anyone

huh?

I want something I can put on my website that I can drop a link or a snippet of text, up to n characters in length. I am hoping someone knows of a bit of kit that I don't have to configure. It will live a short lifespan before it gets replaced by something bigger.

Note how much simpler it is to just cast the net out and see who knows what

You want something that displays code? Sorry my brain isn't working right now.

nah, links and text snippets

8:53 PM

user image

I normally just gmail it to myself, but that seems to be the wrong way to go about it, and I have a bright shiny new server now

I figured if someone had something I could throw up right now I could actually make it more full fledged later

I see

I don't

thats possibly the worst CR i've read

You want to save notes on your website?

by dragging something there.

What server language?

see the textbox at the bottom of the screen?

I want to do something like that, and store it in a flatfile or something on a webserver running apache and php and probably nothing else

9:08 PM

SQLite

I don't have anything. I could knock something together but I don't think thats what you want.

yes, I want to do no effort, I was hoping one of you kind folk already knew of something off the top of your head

I'm positive you could too

I know I could ... I think you missed the part where I was trying to do minimal work to have the feature

@drachenstern I think the search term for the simplest possible app which does that is 'graffiti wall'

Heh.

github.com/Fusion/s2ajax/blob/master/example_wall2.php

9:49 PM

hmmm, that could do it, very easily. And now to deploy that on my site without a publicly available link ...

10:10 PM

What's @drachenstern building now?

someplace to put snippets so I don't have to drop to gmail everytime

I would love if someone found me a more complicated graffiti wall alike, but it's not that big of a deal, I'll have a blog engine up after some time

I need to talk to my "host" and see if and when I'll have a VM up so that I can start doing stuff like that

does everyone just agree that wordpress is the defacto best blog engine, or is there a better one somewhere? I need something light, I don't need 50,000 features

3 hours ago, by Nyuszika7H

@Trufa I suspect it's faked, bottom line is missing and its corners aren't rounded. I have to go now anyway, see you in about a hour.

@Nyuszika7H Its not fake, its just a screen cap

I do them directly of what I want, like this.

user image

hi

11:05 PM

@drachenstern I use WP.

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