Tavern on the Meta

@MichaelMrozek all 4+ different paths from my house all have a steep hill like that. I'm planning on calling off / working from home whenever there is snow/ice..

Michael Mrozek

@DanGrossman Wow, you weren't kidding

Dan Grossman

3:40 PM

Oldie but goodie:

omg

Hahah

First rule for driving big vehicles in snow/ice. Turn off the jake brake (engine braking). That's what did that bus in from the first video...

Dan Grossman

they are simply idiots, no excuse for that last video

1) slack? a truck to a bumper? pulling INTO the snow bank? wtf

Michael Mrozek

@DanGrossman Nonsense, they're making progress. Once they get all the pieces out they can just reassemble it on an ice-free patch of road

Dan Grossman

3:42 PM

2) with the 5 guys they coulda shoveled that car out in 5 minutes

3) dragging a car that's not in neutral???

Fosco

if they didn't have a shovel before, maybe now they can use the bumper

mootinator

@DanGrossman That lady who left her car trying to avoid being in a collision is lucky she didn't get run over by the truck behind her.

Dan Grossman

jumping out of a moving car is fracking stupid

you slip and you're under the tires

ircmaxell

They are all stupid. And it's the town/city's fault for salting too early

radp

It's truth: you can't improvise when it comes to snow.

Dan Grossman

3:49 PM

Seattle does not salt roads

they're too environmentally friendly to put that much salt in their water system

radp

"okay I forgot to remove the snow this year too and now it formed ice on the ground and this thing is slippery as hell. I know what we need: pouring hot water."

ircmaxell

The first rule of dealing with slick roads is salt at the end, and only at the end. Otherwise you get water under the snow and it refreezes into ice (thereby having snow on top of ice, which is worse than just ice)

Dan Grossman

> By ruling out salt and some of the chemicals routinely used by snowbound cities, Seattle has embraced a less-effective strategy for clearing roads, namely sand sprinkled on top of snowpack along major arterials, and a chemical de-icer that is effective when temperatures are below 32 degrees. Seattle also equips its plows with rubber-edged blades. That minimizes the damage to roads and manhole covers, but it doesn't scrape off the ice, Wiggins said.

Zypher

ircmaxell

@radp: we actually have that on a few highways here in NJ. They call it weeping roads. They pump a hot water/glycol mixture via tiny pores in the roadway on the really bad parts to eliminate any snow or ice without plowing. It actually has worked so well that the accident rate fell from about 10 ice related fatalities per year to 0 ice related accidents per year (on a 1 mile stretch of road)...

Dan Grossman

3:52 PM

so I can't find the video, but I was reminded...

Michael Mrozek

Now I have half my office watching these instead of working

Dan Grossman

there was a video of a big dump truck that started rolling down a road with its driver on the sidewalk... he tries to jump to the door to get in and stop it, but misses and is run over and instantly killed

Zypher

my favorite part is the "lets throw chemicals at it"

Michael Mrozek

@DanGrossman Probably good that you can't find the video

radp

@ircmaxell Yes, the problem is that I don't have a dewatering machine, merely my arms and some sort of broom

ircmaxell

3:54 PM

HAHAHA...

radp

So attempting to remove water by pouring water on it then moving that water out of the way... not very effective.

ircmaxell

yeah, it was something on the order of an additional $50 million per mile of road to construct, and another $1 million per year in maintenance/chemicals... Not cheap, but considering how bad it was before hand it may be worth it

radp

I wonder if lighter vehicles like mopeds have an easier time

...or their lightness dooms them to zero drag

ircmaxell

Yeah, pouring pure water on a cold road is nothing short of.. Well... Retarted. If you want to mix it with anti-ice chemicals, fine

@radp: It's my experience that the heavier the vehicle, the easier to control as long as you know what you're doing...

radp

@ircmaxell brilliant. I'll buy a truck for next year's snow fall.

Dan Grossman

3:57 PM

sigh

►

ircmaxell

It's also far harder to get back into control once you've lost it in a heavier vehicle, so it's less forgiving if you make a mistake...

radp

Then since I don't know what I'm doing, I'll crash that instead.

ircmaxell

LOL... @radp where do you live? Do you get much snow?

radp

@ircmaxell No, and that's exactly the problem, right? ;)

ircmaxell

yeah...

Then your best bet is to get a car that has traction control and use it

radp

3:59 PM

We moved here 8 years ago, didn't live in places where it really snowed before. It snows seriously once a year here, on average, and we just stay at home that time if we can.

ircmaxell

I find I can control the car better than traction control in low-friction environments, so I prefer RWD or 4WD vehicles, but then again I've got 10 years experience driving in snow (and I used to drive for a living, so I've had plenty of practice)

radp

This year it's snowing more than a couple days though. First a mixture, then nothing, then serious snow, then nothing, yesterday again mixture, today nothing, tomorrow snow again :|

Fosco

<3 my 4x4.. uphill at least.

ircmaxell

@radp: That's the best plan... And I'd suggest finding an empty parking lot (no light posts either) and trying to lose control. Spend an hour just figuring out how your car handles so that if you do lose control, you know what it feels like...

Zypher

and what @ircmaxell is fuuuuuun to do :)

ircmaxell

4:01 PM

@Fosco: That's the problem. It'll help you go, but not stop. I can't tell you how many SUVs we see flipped over the side of the road every year around here...

radp

...until you crash right into the parking walls

or for bonus points you manage to slide through the parking exit

ircmaxell

lol

Zypher

make sure it's big enough :) ... i used to have alot of fun in my subaru (all wheel drive, but if you dumped the clutch it was ... not so much anymore)

of course it was banged up with 120k miles on it

sooooo

radp

@ircmaxell I assume you have an automatic?

I guess they aren't going to fare too well on snow and ice.

ircmaxell

@radp: now I do. I preferred manuals for snow...

radp

4:04 PM

(Here in Italy automatic cars are a rarity.)

Rebecca Chernoff

@ircmaxell My dad made me do that when I was learning how to drive. Damn scary the first time being told to lose control, heh.

ircmaxell

@RebeccaChernoff: Yeah, but once you know what it is, it's far easier to not panic and think. I still do that to this day with every new car I get, just so I know...

radp

I can see it. "Lose control now." "You sure?" "Yeah..." "Here goes nothing..." "Okay, now recover?" "How if we've lost control?? Isn't the point of losing control not having control at all????"

ircmaxell

By far the best vehicle I had in the snow was an old (1994) Chevy blazer. You'd have to work to get it to lose control (Even in 2WD). But once it went, it snapped so fast that if you weren't ready for it you had no chance. I miss that truck...

Rebecca Chernoff

Oh yeah, I totally see the point now even if I didn't see it then hehe.

mootinator

4:05 PM

@RebeccaChernoff Not as scary as losing control for the first time at40mph on an icy highway into the oncoming lane.

Rebecca Chernoff

Heh, probably true. (;

radp

I know I'd slam clutch and brakes and just stay terror-frozen waiting for the impact :P

Fosco

my 94 cavalier was a champ in the snow... my 2000 monte carlo SS with a really wide wheel base was surprisingly shitty, i swear it had ice skates and socks on

Dan Grossman

First time I ever slid on ice was in fact on a highway ramp... :}

ircmaxell

@radp: If you're careful, you can actually downshift and apply some breaking force without touching the brakes. So you can slow down without making it worse...

mootinator

4:07 PM

I slid through the same corner three times one winter...

Lance Roberts

Siped tires are the way to go.

ircmaxell

My 08 VW Jetta is decent. The traction control is amazing in all but the worst roads (which I have to disable to even have a chance). For the occasional winter driver, I'd highly recommend it...

radp

@mootinator Does the number of U per impact increase sublinearly or superlinearly with every slide?

ircmaxell

lol

Rebecca Chernoff

I've always driven smaller SUVs. '90 Ford Explorer, '02 Ford Escape, '03 Toyota Rav4.

ircmaxell

4:10 PM

@LanceRoberts: I actually don't care for spiked tires. I prefer just snow chains and paying attention and staying at least 10 seconds ahead of the vehicle (that's the only way you can get buy with a 20 ton fire engine)...

radp

I like "my" Ka :P

Dan Grossman

Someone explain the craigslist lingo to me... "d/d free 420 friendly"... am I parsing that correctly as "drug and disease free, but some drugs are good"?

mootinator

Kinda ambiguous.

Dan Grossman

Is it like "I'm currently drug free but wouldn't be if you were friendly"?

ircmaxell

@DanGrossman: What kind of things are you looking at...?

mootinator

4:14 PM

Could also mean "I don't partake but don't mind if you do."

Dan Grossman

"women seeking men"

Lance Roberts

@ircmaxell, NO, not spiked tires, siped tires. They cut thousand of little slits in them, making then superior to studded tires. That's what the truckers use here in Alaska.

ircmaxell

Or could mean "I don't like drugs, but weed is fine with me"

Dan Grossman

ircmaxell

@Lance: Ahhh, that's fair then. I've got no experience with them...

radp

4:17 PM

Prepare for the WINTER. Convert your SUV in a TRACKED VEHICLE in just THIRTY WEEKLY ISSUES.

ircmaxell

lol

radp

First issue, with the HACKSAW, just $5!

mootinator

michelinman.ca/tire-selector/name/x-ice-xi2-tires

Nom

radp

(*illegal in 49 states. We forgot what was the one that didn't outlaw this shit. Good luck.)

ircmaxell

Second issue: Go to local surplus store and purchase used tank

Dan Grossman

4:23 PM

Y'all ever watch the TV show Ice Road Truckers?

Or the sequel, IRT Deadliest Roads?

radp

@ircmaxell try again, use the "upload..." button.

ircmaxell

The second one worked... (for me at least)

Do I need to repost it?

radp

@ircmaxell it ends with .jpg but is a web page.

(Make sure you copy image URL)

ircmaxell

I did

it must be hot-link protection (or something like that)

mootinator

mod-rewrite FTL!

radp

4:26 PM

@ircmaxell That's what the Upload button for URLs is for.

ircmaxell

I know...

radp

fair 'nuff then.

ircmaxell

it's just me being lazy

mootinator

Last chance to order from amazon.ca for Christmas! Omg!

ircmaxell

phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=1231

Rebecca Chernoff

4:51 PM

Haha.

drachenstern

5:06 PM

woohoo I'm tenacious!

So what's the good word today everybody?

Michael Mrozek

I never understood that badge, it runs contrary to the "badges exist to encourage good behavior" thing

It's a pity badge

Rebecca Chernoff

tenacious?

Huh, I got a tag badge on Meta.

drachenstern

@RebeccaChernoff Nice

Michael Mrozek

@RebeccaChernoff "Zero score accepted answers: more than 5 and 20% of total"

drachenstern

@MichaelMrozek it encourages you to answer even at the expense of not getting upvotes on the answer

Michael Mrozek

5:12 PM

@drachenstern You anticipate not getting upvotes ahead of time?

drachenstern

I'm such a repwhore tho I don't care ;)

@MichaelMrozek yes, by the same people who barely put time into the system and really don't have a sense of community here

Rebecca Chernoff

Heh, speaking of which:

2 hours ago, by mootinator

This low quality posts filter is going to seriously hamper my ability to generate 0 score accepted answers for badge whoring purposes.

drachenstern

@RebeccaChernoff hehehehe, sweet ...

Rebecca Chernoff

@drachenstern I'd say that's a point in @MichaelMrozek's corner, not yours. Though it pains me to give him a point. (;

drachenstern

I meant that Moot and I were on the same goal, badge whoring on zero score answers ... I get @MichaelMrozek's point, but I do anticipate people not putting into the ecosystem.

I just don't plan it when I answer the question.

I wish I could. I'ld goto Vegas instead.

ircmaxell

5:16 PM

LOL

Michael Mrozek

Spending all my SO time on the flags list and the review page makes my overall opinion of humanity go down sharply

Rebecca Chernoff

It wasn't at rock-bottom already?

ircmaxell

Both for what was flagged, and for the fact that people flagged it (the dumb posts and dumb flags combined)

drachenstern

@MichaelMrozek reasons I'm glad I'm not a 10k or diamond mod ... reasons I'm glad I just use the site as a badge&rep whore

@RebeccaChernoff my opinion elevated slightly on getting SO instead of MSDN forums ...

ircmaxell

It's pages (and sites) like this that make my overall opinion of humanity (and programmers in general) go down: thedailywtf.com/Articles/…

mootinator

5:22 PM

I only need 25 more points to soft hit the rep cap today. Woo.

Rebecca Chernoff

I only need 200 more rep (;

mootinator

And only 19 more upvotes to actually hit it :P

drachenstern

@ircmaxell the article or the commentary?

ircmaxell

@drachenstern: both

Rebecca Chernoff

NOOOOO

I hate this dialog

ircmaxell

5:35 PM

hehehe

mootinator

It asks you how long to wait now? Nice!

Rebecca Chernoff

Well, it gives you 3 options. Longest is 4 hours. When I see it in the morning, I'm not gonna want to reboot in 4 hours either.

I hate rebooting. (;

Dan Grossman

> webuser1.60028@im.olark.com: quiero bajar un el internet explore 8, y mi pc me dice que el idioma no es compatible con el sistema operativo, no c nada de esto pero necesito ayuda para poderlo bajar

Hmm... he's asking he how to install Internet Explorer 8 on a non-supported operating system, isn't he?

drachenstern

mootinator

JOOSBAG

ircmaxell

5:51 PM

@RebeccaChernoff: Yeah, but in 4 hours you can set it for another 4 hours...

Rebecca Chernoff

Yes. But where's the STFU option? (:

ircmaxell

hehehe

mootinator

Remind me again right after I leave.

ircmaxell

unless you have your Group Policy set to not allow ignore...

which pisses quite a few people off (but I laugh at them)...

radp

The Minecraft Alpha is over.

mootinator

6:01 PM

price++?

Zypher

@RebeccaChernoff it's better than WinXP's ... you're computer WILL reboot in 10 mins save all work

Rebecca Chernoff

True.

Zypher

The first time anyone sets up WSUS they get confused and think "Oh 12:00 to install everyone will be at lunch that's a great idea" then everyone comes back from lunch (or didn't go to lunch) and has lost everythign they didn't save

radp

@mootinator price+=5; future_updates_are_free=0;

mootinator

ghey

radp

6:06 PM

they changed the latter bit to something a bit more restrictive

ircmaxell

@Zypher: But that's their fault for not saving ;-)... (That's why I have mine setup to run at 8pm. Late enough where nobody should be working, early enough to give me time should an update fail on one of the servers)

radp

777

A: Understanding "randomness"

Just a clarification Although the previous answers are right whenever you try to spot the randomness of a pseudo-random variable or its multiplication, you should be aware that while Random() is usually uniformly distributed, Random()Random() is not. Example So, both are "random", but thei...

Zypher

@ircmaxell oh i was talking workstation updates :)

ircmaxell

I am talking both...

Zypher

if someone is dumb enough to enable autoupdate/reboot on a server a noon ... well they shouldn't be touching a server

ircmaxell

6:08 PM

lol

I roll out the update on a staging server, and only after it works do I approve it in WSUS to deploy...

radp

@Zypher noon in a timezone is midnight in another, and vice versa.

Rebecca Chernoff

http://www.vim.org/images/vimassistant.gif

radp

@RebeccaChernoff What's the problem with animated gifs? :P

ircmaxell

lol @radp

Rebecca Chernoff

@radp oy.

ircmaxell

6:10 PM

Well, whomever posted it...

radp

@ircmaxell rchern spoilsportedly turned it into a boring lifeless link

ircmaxell

Ahhh

Rebecca Chernoff

hrmph.

radp

It's the same murderous line of thinking that brought to the death of Bouncy.

Michael Mrozek

I thought we agreed to never again speak that thing's name

mootinator

6:14 PM

@radp The OP had obviously never understood the difference between rolling 1 die and rolling 2 dice.

ircmaxell

Farking Windows: "Do you want to open this file?" No, I double clicked it for my health...

Dan Grossman

You did, this time. But if you see a "Do you want to open this file?" prompt after having not clicked anything, you know something's up and can stop it.

ircmaxell

true... But I've never seen that prompt that wasn't a direct result of me double-clicking (or pressing enter on) something...

Dan Grossman

I haven't slept in more than 24 hours... expecting some packages today... must stay awake!

Michael Mrozek

It seems like Windows should be able to differentiate the two

Zypher

6:19 PM

@MichaelMrozek but it's trivial to send two mouseclick events that emulate a user double clicking as far as windows is concerned

Dan Grossman

That's what Microsoft Security Essentials is for, but bundling that with Windows would be illegal.

Michael Mrozek

@Zypher That would be Windows failing to differentiate the two :)

Can you not send a third mouseclick that clicks the "yes, open it" button?

Zypher

of course :)

balpha

@MichaelMrozek good point; let's notify microsoft of that

they need to add another check

Zypher

although i would send the alt+y sequence they you don't need to worry about where the dialog is

ircmaxell

6:20 PM

"Are you sure you really wanted to open it?"

Dan Grossman

If it's a proper Windows security dialog, then no

Windows protects itself there from anything but hardware input, or is supposed to

radp

@mootinator Regardless... +778/-1? That has to be one of the highest non-CW posts on Stack Overflow.

Dan Grossman

you can't (easily?) write a program that triggers an elevation prompt then accepts its own prompt

radp

I remember when I looked at the posts with a score higher than 800, it was all CW stuff. "What's the best book/comic/unicorn..."

ircmaxell

@Dan, wouldn't you just need to install a driver, and have the click come from the driver?

Michael Mrozek

6:21 PM

@radp We need to find the 1 downvoter

Dan Grossman

@ircmaxell Probably, but installing drivers requires confirming an elevation prompt

Michael Mrozek

I think if you've gotten the user to let you install a driver you've probably already won

3

mootinator

@radp True.

ircmaxell

@Dan: True, but most would do that at install time anyway (they want to install it, they won't read). So you confirm at install, and boom, all of your elevation prompts are useless

@MichaelMrozek: That's quite fair...

Michael Mrozek

Wait, that post is two months old? That's massively suspicious...

Dan Grossman

6:23 PM

The elevation dialogs don't protect you from installing malicious stuff on purpose. They are there to prevent you from doing it accidentally.

If you see a prompt pop up asking you to install a driver when you didn't just download and run an installer... that's an obvious sign of something you don't want to install

radp

@MichaelMrozek I did bring up here the stupid amount of upvotes it was getting. People were convinced it was that good though.

balpha

iirc it was pretty high on reddit

ircmaxell

And that's the ripe of it. You can install something malicious and it will always have the ability to do damage. But at least with the password based escalation (ala Linux) you can't do that (unless you capture the password via a key-logger or something)...

Michael Mrozek

@radp Most questions that old don't even have that many views

I guess it was reddit like @balpha said

radp

It's funny how a site that rewards basic answers so much (0 < xy < y < x < 1) manages nonetheless to attract experts.

2

ircmaxell

6:26 PM

yeah... Solid answers tend to sit below 10, but basic ones can go really high...

Dan Grossman

I really came to SO only because all the programming forums I wrote tens of thousands of posts for were getting filled with garbage posts from india.

Forums didn't have reputation in the first place, answerers just like to answer ;)

ircmaxell

yeah, but that's going to happen anyway. Most long-term users of SO aren't doing it for the REP...

Rebecca Chernoff

Ohh, I think I just had an idea for the keyboard shortcuts script. \o/

radp

rchern("\o/") = "/o\"

2

ircmaxell

lol

Rebecca Chernoff

6:28 PM

I am not a function >_<

Dan Grossman

$.rchern

mootinator

jQuery? Really? rchern is obviously server side code.

radp

@mootinator and the backend obviously is fully powered by jQuery.

Michael Mrozek

4

ircmaxell

Hrm, a jQuery singularity... I'm scared...

Dan Grossman

6:30 PM

github.com/coolaj86/node-jquery

mootinator

@radp Touché

Sounds like a good interview question, either way.

ircmaxell

What does? Can you use jQuery on the server side? ???

Michael Mrozek

5 of the 7 newest meta posts have negative scores. I guess this is what happens when I don't check in for a few hours

mootinator

Instead of "Write a function to reverse this string."

"Write the rchern function, which reverses a string and mirrors any symbols in it."

ircmaxell

lol

mootinator

6:34 PM

of course, the correct result for \o/ is \o/, but we'll let that one slide.

Rebecca Chernoff

LOL. I had an if statement in my jQuery if ($(item).is(selector)) and I ended up only needing the else case, so I tried to negate it by doing if ($(item).not(selector)) and then wondered what was wrong/ |:

drachenstern

lol, ouch

Rebecca Chernoff

Oh yes, this makes the navigation scrolling much much better.

ircmaxell

(I'm not too familiar with jQuery), is it that .not() checks chlidren, but .is() checks the current node?

Dan Grossman

I just found a Windows ME Quick Setup Guide in one of my old boxes.

radp

6:37 PM

@ircmaxell Well, why not? Theoerically you can use it to build and manipulate pages.

ircmaxell

@radp: why not what?

radp

$.loadTemplate("foo.html")
$("#username").text(username)
$("#reps").text(reps[username])
...

ircmaxell

I'm still confused... Are you asking why I'm not familiar with jQuery?

radp

@ircmaxell ← you see these arrows? Means they're a reply to a specific message. Click on that to jump to the original post.

I was replying to « Can you use jQuery on the server side? ??? »

Rebecca Chernoff

@ircmaxell .is() returns true/false, .not() returns a jQuery object

ircmaxell

6:41 PM

is an idiot...

Ahhh....

Rebecca Chernoff

!.is() != .not()

radp

@RebeccaChernoff you have an excess exclamation point there?

ircmaxell

@radp: I wasn't asking that. I was asking if that was the interview question you were talking about...

radp

@ircmaxell Oh, I never thought of it as an interview question

Michael Mrozek

@radp It seems fine...!

Rebecca Chernoff

6:42 PM

@radp no?

radp

There's a double negation there, so you're asserting boolean equality

Rebecca Chernoff

> The negation of .is() is not equal to .not()

ircmaxell

@radp: I know, @mootinator did...

!A != B does not imply that A == B... (It does only if A and B are both boolean types)

radp

! .is != .not() ←→ !( ! .is() ) == .not()

Zypher

F#(*&% OpenDNS

Rebecca Chernoff

6:45 PM

y'all are over-thinking this way too much.

radp

I get !! usually is used to transform something to its boolean version

Rebecca Chernoff

and you're making @Zypher angry!

radp

@RebeccaChernoff Wow, told from a woman...

Zypher

don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when i'm angry

radp

It's the best compliment a(n) (wannabe-)engineer may possibly get!

bbl adding more abstraction

ircmaxell

6:47 PM

theoatmeal.com/comics/christmas

mootinator

I've never used it as an interview question, though I've been asked it.

ircmaxell

Really, you've been asked if you can use jQuery on the server side @mootinator?

hates OTRS... I can't wait to upgrade to Redmine (whenever I can convince everyone else to do it)

mootinator

/me is lost

ircmaxell

is lost as well

mootinator

7:27 PM

Speaking of being lost.

1

Q: Parent Child Relationships with NHibernate?

I would like to create a cascading tree/list of N number of children for a given parent, where a child can also become a parent. However not all elements of that child can be selected. Essentially, I would like to create sets of sets, or define that a set contains only elements. The first step...

Doesn't this describe a perfectly normal series of one to many relationships? Or am I just confused.

Coding Gorilla

7:40 PM

@mootinator It's more complex than that, he's over on SO chat talking about it

mootinator

I kinda get it.

balpha

8:10 PM

R.I.P. ai.stackexchange.com

Rebecca Chernoff

SEKeyboardShortcuts Beta: github.com/rchern/StackExchangeScripts/raw/master/…

Michael Mrozek

That was fast

Rebecca Chernoff

Wow, after only 12 days?

Though, 83 questions in 12 days? That's not much of a private beta hype surge

Or even a public beta hype surge.

Michael Mrozek

Do users know when the site is going to close?

It would be pretty disappointing to show up one day and suddenly be redirected to Area 51

Rebecca Chernoff

I don't recall there being any indication of it on the Gadgets site.

I remember looking on that Meta for a discussion.

Michael Mrozek

8:15 PM

I guess I could download the data dump and check, but I'm fairly lazy

Hmm. Actually, is meta included?

Rebecca Chernoff

Yes, metas are included in the data dump.

Err, not in this one though. I guess not for a closed site?

Michael Mrozek

I suppose

Data dumps are an interesting view into how the engine is structured. Like bounties being a type of vote

Also one of the post history types is "question unmerged", so apparently that's a dev ability

Tim Stone

yawns Hmm..

Rebecca Chernoff

@TimStone Nice nap?

Tim Stone

@RebeccaChernoff Kind of, I still have a bit of a headache though. I figured I should probably let myself get caught up on some of the sleep I've been missing before I died of exhaustion, heh. :P

drachenstern

8:32 PM

wb to the land of the living @TimStone

So the only downside with living a brisk five minute walk away from the office is when you first move in and there's so much stuff to be done

Tim Stone

Thanks. ;)

Hmm, I could see that being problematic

Rebecca Chernoff

What about people that work from home? (;

ircmaxell

Wow, I love how people accept and upvote answers months after no activity (the one in question was last touched in August)...

drachenstern