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SPArchaeologist
SPArchaeologist
8:05 AM
Morn.......ZzzzzzZZzzzzzz
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
Morn!
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
.......!
 
DroidDev
DroidDev
Zzzzzz
 
rene
rene
@SPArchaeologist Monday, Monday?
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
 
Stijn
Stijn
8:23 AM
god dammit
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
too late :(
 
rene
rene
@Stijn frustrated? ;)
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
roll back, @Stijn
 
Stijn
Stijn
@ShadowWizard done
@rene yes, I don't like robo reviewers :(
That edit was done in good faith but the reviewers didn't pay attention at all.
 
rene
rene
@Stijn True, but don't let them get under your skin
 
Stijn
Stijn
8:30 AM
@rene I'm gonna get another cup of coffee, perhaps that'll help
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
@Stijn actually the edit looked almost fine, I don't blame the reviewrs this time
edit conflicts are hard to spot/catch
 
rene
rene
@Stijn You better take that coffee first before you respond to @ShadowWizard...
 
SPArchaeologist
SPArchaeologist
@rene Yep - and the delay in my answer only confirm this.
 
rene
rene
hehehe
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
Greetings Meta :P
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
8:36 AM
why am I getting empty responses from the stack exchange server?
 
rene
rene
Stack overflow maybe?
3
 
DroidDev
DroidDev
lol
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
latest reload: CSS did load, the sprite sheet didn't.
 
iStimple
iStimple
@rene SOA or whatever that crap is, should be SOPCSACP
 
rene
rene
I have the feeling I'm going to learn something today...
 
Stijn
Stijn
8:41 AM
@JanDvorak are you using HTTPS ?
cause that sounds like a CORS request being blocked by your browser
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
@Stijn not for the page itself at least.
 
iStimple
iStimple
Stack Overflow Psychological Care Services And Counseling for People
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
Stand back, I'm parsing XML with regex.
 
iStimple
iStimple
so stop the how to ask on SO site and start a counseling one instead
 
rene
rene
@Stijn I do repro if I swtich to https
@iStimple Tnx :)
@iStimple You suggest I should unfollow Stack Overflow Academy?
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
8:43 AM
$("[src*=https]") yields nothing.
 
iStimple
iStimple
@rene I think so, all the cool people are dissing it.
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
in RegEx on Stack Overflow Chat, 2 days ago, by HamZa
in PHP, 32 secs ago, by Alma Do
@HamZa yeah, later coming: Stack Overflow Academy College (how to ask good questions on SO Academy) and Stack Overflow Academy College School (prepare young folks of how to ask question on SO College). Resolution: What. A. Dumb.
 
rene
rene
@iStimple Well, that qualifies me as un-cool which is a perfect fit...
 
DroidDev
DroidDev
@Unihedron that's exactly what I was trying to post as a comment on one of the discussions on that proposal, just wasn't able to find the words
we have meta for every site, then we again have MSE. If someone wants to learn, I think this is more than enough.
 
SPArchaeologist
SPArchaeologist
@DroidDev I want "Baba's Spamming Class 101"
 
iStimple
iStimple
8:47 AM
@rene naw, you're cool! I'm indifferent about it, really. We can't know for sure until it launches, but it seems kind of redudantly useless and it would be better to have just a site that is for "how to ask good questions" , like questioners.SE , not just for how to ask on SO
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
aka: don't reinvent the wheel.
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
Woo. We have a new "delete comment" icon now.
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
Though I did follow it - it seems interesting.
 
DroidDev
DroidDev
@SPArchaeologist I think that is blatantly off-topic :P
 
rene
rene
@JanDvorak did it needed to be updated? The old icon didn't work?
 
iStimple
iStimple
8:51 AM
@JanDvorak looks the same to me, maybe a side by side image so we can see the difference?
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
@rene what old icon?
It used to be a word
 
rene
rene
Really?
 
Stijn
Stijn
@JanDvorak it's always been a circle with an x inside of it for me
I think
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
@Stijn Same here.
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
I don't have a circle around. Or is it per-site?
 
rene
rene
8:53 AM
@JanDvorak Are you using lynx?
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
nope. I'm considering a different feline, however.
Oh, wait, that's a panda.
 
Stijn
Stijn
^that's on SO
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
@ShadowWizard Flagged both.
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
@ShadowWizard #1 gone?
 
iStimple
iStimple
8:56 AM
both gone
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
yup
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
Well done! The Tavern, flagging spam posts in time since 2008
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
yeah, the one on SO could have gone unnoticed for a long time
robo reviewers probably clicked "No Action Needed" in First Posts review
 
DavidG
DavidG
9:37 AM
Is the search indexing broken again?
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
9:52 AM
[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword detected: Nike Roshe Run Mesh Damen Blau Weiszlig Amour on askubuntu.com
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
Thanks SmokeDetector! What should we do?
 
rene
rene
@Unihedron flag as spam
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
gone
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
Please reject my proposed edit: stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/5457869
 
rene
rene
@DavidG Could be, do you see only questions that are two hours old?
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
9:56 AM
Argh, too late.
 
rene
rene
@Unihedron Maybe you shouldn't propose an edit in the first place if you want it to be rejected anyway...
 
DavidG
DavidG
@rene Exactly, it's happened a couple of times recently
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
I didn't realize I made that mistake of correcting code until I submitted it.
I'm a fool...
 
rene
rene
@Oded Can you recycle the elastic search thingy once more?
@Unihedron no comment....
 
Oded
Oded
@rene what seems to be the problem?
 
rene
rene
10:03 AM
@Oded The search results seems to be two hours old.
@Oded similar to this
 
DavidG
DavidG
@rene It's exactly that - that was my question when I spotted it the first time :)
 
Oded
Oded
KK - looking into this
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
hmm... those empty responses seem to be a bad ISP on my side
 
rene
rene
10:19 AM
gtg...
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
seeya!
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
10:36 AM
cya!
 
Avinash Raj
Avinash Raj
10:48 AM
fastest to reach 10k SO users list.
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
@AvinashRaj who?
 
Avinash Raj
Avinash Raj
i get that.
Thanks..
i just wanna Query to find the fastest users to reach 10K
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
@AvinashRaj oh, I see. So what's wrong with it?
 
Avinash Raj
Avinash Raj
11:04 AM
nothing wrong with that.
first i asked for the query link . After that i searched in goole. It helps me.
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
11:57 AM
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
12:43 PM
@Doorknob 3 years in SO, 2k rep.... amazing.
Guess there are people who really can't be teached.
 
DavidG
DavidG
And 437 questions asked. I wonder how many of them could have been solved with Googling...
 
Stijn
Stijn
@Doorknob I never would have expected this to some day become true
 
DroidDev
DroidDev
@Stijn It would have been much better, if you'd have added some upvotes/downvotes to question and awarded a bounty to accepted answer of 600-700 reps. :P
 
ProgramFOX
ProgramFOX
12:59 PM
 
Braiam
Braiam
@ProgramFOX -1 not enough english
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
Gone by the time I clicked in. GG
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
gone
 
Oded
Oded
@rene - fixed
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
Weekend officially over when spam on MSE is nuked in 2 minutes :)
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
1:01 PM
@ShadowWizard nope. That just means the mods are here.
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
@Oded any hint what might be causing it to get stuck in the first place?
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
Okay, spamming MSE already makes very little sense, but spamming MSE in Spanish?!
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
@JanDvorak hmm... mod binding spam flag? Might be.
 
Braiam
Braiam
@ShadowWizard nah, it was sitting at -6 and after I flagged it the page refreshed
 
Oded
Oded
@ShadowWizard some problems with our dev tier connecting to the production tier (specifically elastic indexing) - the underlying issue was fixed, so this shouldn't happen again.
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
1:04 PM
@Oded Hooray! Well done!
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
@Oded I will keep this in mind when it will crash again ;-)
 
Oded
Oded
heh
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
1:22 PM
[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: JUNK TO ARABIC CONVERSION IN WINDOWS MOBILE 6.1 on stackoverflow.com
 
Stijn
Stijn
even the post body is in all caps, I can't be bothered with that
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
VLQ
Good job everyone!
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
@Oded can you permanently remove image from i.stack.imgur.com?
 
Oded
Oded
@ShadowWizard yes. Link me up
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
@Oded not my own, I believe you have an email already with the URL to be removed, based on this.
I advised him to come here himself, guess he can give more details if needed
 
Oded
Oded
1:36 PM
No need - using the contact us is enough, but it was the weekend - it may take some time for the CMs to get around to it.
 
DroidDev
DroidDev
1:48 PM
Morning @bjb568!
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword detected: Acheter Nike Air Max 90 Pas Cher Femme on drupal.stackexchange.com
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
@SmokeDetector gone
 
GnomeSlice
GnomeSlice
2:10 PM
Today's Listening | Chillout (Mixsets day 4)
 
Santa Claus
Santa Claus
Oh yay, I left my SE chat tab open all night, in addition to leaving iTunes playing all night.
 
SPArchaeologist
SPArchaeologist
@SantaClaus good to know. Guess I can save the money for an air mail stamp to the Pole and just post my letter here then.
 
Santa Claus
Santa Claus
@SPArchaeologist Ha - you thought I actually read your letters? Noobs.
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
@Santa enjoying pinging yourself?
 
Santa Claus
Santa Claus
@ShadowWizard It drowns out the whining of the elves.
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
2:17 PM
@ShadowWizard sure it's fun!
 
SPArchaeologist
SPArchaeologist
2:32 PM
@SantaClaus The answer above should at least prove you read chat messages, so one more reason to post our presents wishlist here -_-
 
Stijn
Stijn
2:47 PM
My favourite days at work is when someone has their birthday. Chocolate cake \o/
 
DroidDev
DroidDev
My favorite day at work is when I don't have to work
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
@Stijn not to mention the beer ;)
 
Stijn
Stijn
@ShadowWizard we never have beer on birthdays, that's for when someone leaves for another project :)
 
Keyes
Keyes
Hi is there anyone who may be able to help with a problem?
 
Stijn
Stijn
@Keyes No, we're all useless. But you can ask us anyway.
 
Keyes
Keyes
2:51 PM
SE support hasnt responded, and im wondering who can remove an uploaded image? E.g the stack.imgur ones.
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
I don't think you can
 
Stijn
Stijn
@Keyes your case was actually mentioned an hour ago
1 hour ago, by Oded
No need - using the contact us is enough, but it was the weekend - it may take some time for the CMs to get around to it.
It should get looked at soon
 
Keyes
Keyes
Okay, thanks.
 
Stijn
Stijn
Be careful in the future :)
 
TGMCians
TGMCians
\o
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
2:53 PM
o/
 
DroidDev
DroidDev
\o/
 
rene
rene
@DavidG fixed by Oded and verified by me, it works again...
 
Jason C
Jason C
/o\
 
DroidDev
DroidDev
\m/
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
/w\
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
3:05 PM
.o/
 
rene
rene
-o-
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
=o-
 
Stijn
Stijn
ಠ_ಠ
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
o.o
 
Braiam
Braiam
:D-<
:D|-<
:D/-<
 
SPArchaeologist
SPArchaeologist
3:10 PM
^_^
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
=^^=
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
Cleanup in aisle 89, please
 
Bart
Bart
Someone has thrown up over the cucumbers
 
Jason C
Jason C
Everything about japaneseemoticons.org is a lie.
 
user163250
Anyone think that maybe we shouldn't have closed this question?: stackoverflow.com/q/24719268/456814
 
user163250
3:22 PM
Maybe we should have let people answer, and only close if there started to be like more than 10 or 20 or something?
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
@Cupcake no
@Cupcake when the damage is done, you mean?
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Cupcake No it's pretty damn broad.
 
user163250
I'm so conflicted about Too Broad now. I think I'm just going to stick to closing recommendation questions for a while.
 
Jason C
Jason C
Just look at the variation between even the two given answers.
Well then call it opinion based. "How do I detect if a page is a forum page?" does not have a correct answer; period.
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
I went for unclear, btw
 
Jason C
Jason C
3:25 PM
I dunno about unclear; it's pretty clear what he's asking.
@Cupcake Plus reading the comments the OP is kind of a dick.
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
@JasonC not strictly a close reason
 
Jason C
Jason C
@JanDvorak Not a close reason at all, but a reason to not care to consider it any further.
 
rene
rene
Until you can answer it with if (TypeOfWebPage(url) = 'Forum') { it is too broad
 
Jason C
Jason C
^ Exactly
 
hichris123
hichris123
@Cupcake You just called for 40 cv-plz's that are tool recommendations. :D
 
rene
rene
3:29 PM
You can find those in CVQ...
 
Braiam
Braiam
can this get an upvote so it doesn't count as unanswered?
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
@JasonC what should I forget about?
 
Jason C
Jason C
cv-plz Too broad / unclear: stackoverflow.com/questions/24213359/… - OP does not specify authentication method details, answers are all over the place, comment discussions on answers are also all over the place, and I suck at chat.
@JanDvorak THE FUTURE.
 
Stijn
Stijn
@Braiam done
 
SPArchaeologist
SPArchaeologist
@JanDvorak 42?
 
Braiam
Braiam
3:44 PM
@Stijn thanks
 
user163250
@hichris123 since I'm a 20k user (or is this a 10k thing?) I actually have a quota of 50 close votes available...
 
Stijn
Stijn
@Cupcake everyone has 50 close votes per day, but you can only use 40 of them in the review queue
 
Braiam
Braiam
@Stijn correction, you only can act on 40 reviews... you can skip them all and vote outside the queue all the same ;)
 
hichris123
hichris123
@Cupcake Uhm... blame my bad memory. :P
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
Number of posts to review =/= number of close votes to cast :)
It says here you have 50 cv per day from 3k rep on SO
 
user163250
4:13 PM
If anyone wants to give their input:
 
user163250
0
Q: Can we have a "recommendation and off-site resource" filter for the Close Review Queue?

CupcakeI can only afford to spare 10 minutes a day at most to the task of reviewing questions in the Close Review Queue, but since it's an extremely time-consuming process, I've recently just given up completely on closing questions through the queue. Which is sort of a waste, because I have a whopping ...

feature-request review vote-to-close filtering
 
hichris123
hichris123
39
Q: Close Vote Review, additionally filter off-topic close reasons

apaul34208Given the ever growing close vote review queue, I think it would help things along if we could streamline the filtering a little more. At the moment we can filter by tag and by close reason, but off-topic has 7 sub-close-reasons. It may improve the workflow a bit to be able to narrow it down to ...

feature-request stackoverflow review vote-to-close
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Shog9 Can SOA just post meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/260648/… verbatim as an automated answer to every question?
CV: somebody please put this out of its misery: stackoverflow.com/questions/25122923/… I've been watching his edits go nowhere for 15 minutes.
It's like an "I don't know how" fractal.
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
@JasonC What to flag it as?
 
ProgramFOX
ProgramFOX
 
Jason C
Jason C
4:24 PM
@Unihedron It's unclear unless he can answer Josh's questions.
 
Braiam
Braiam
> How to reset modem by C++ code? But wait, I don't know write by c++ code.
 
Jason C
Jason C
I sorry if I say not well :) — Hoàng Anh Tuấn 1 min ago
Now I want to give him a hug :'(
 
Bart
Bart
0
Q: Do I need to know C++ to use Unity3d?

jbrownI've got an idea for a simulator game - something like transport tycoon or sim city. I know Java & Python but don't know C++. I've developed lots of web things but never games or graphics. I've heard about Unity and it looks like it might make things easier for me. But will I need to learn C++ t...

unity3d
Wow, if you're too lazy to look up what programming languages Unity supports, I don't have high hopes for the rest of your ideas.
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
"pro only" makes a bad answer.
 
Bart
Bart
How so @Unihedron?
 
Braiam
Braiam
4:32 PM
@Unihedron Unity isn't a free programing language, ya know?
 
Bart
Bart
Na, it's simply only Unity Pro which supports native plugins
 
Braiam
Braiam
@Bart I meant as freedom, but ok
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
I find that as the declaration "pro only" doesn't address his point, but instead leaves his final point opinionated and without a base. I was just googling about the plugin, and I still think there could be a more concrete point than it's "pros only".
 
Braiam
Braiam
the problem is that only pros knows what the pro only do :P
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
Hence I retracted my downvote. It could be useful to someone else, but meh.
 
rene
rene
4:42 PM
Consider me lazy: Do I need to know PHP to use Unity3d?
 
Shog9
Shog9
@JasonC How about we just close every question on SO as a duplicate of RTFM?
Because that's how these sites work, right?
Screw "specific questions"
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Shog9 If that is a serious suggestion I totally support you; can we have "RTFM" as a close reason?
If you're not going to give us an "RTFM" close reason then stop joking around about it. :P
 
Shog9
Shog9
@JasonC No, but I highly suggest you spend some time thinking about the problem that SO - and by extension SE - was created to solve.
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Shog9 I'm aware of all of that and SOA is crap. The ideals there and SOA's crappiness are not mutually exclusive.
 
Shog9
Shog9
@JasonC You say that, but then the rest of your words betray ignorance. So please, do stop talking and start reading the fucking charter before you embarrass yourself further.
 
bjb568
bjb568
4:45 PM
Weee! Whack him with diamonds, shog.
 
Shog9
Shog9
When you can explain to me why SO was created and how it is useful to both individuals and the collective community of programmers on the Internet, we can have an informed discussion of whether or not SOA aligns with those goals.
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Shog9 I don't think I could reach even a fraction of the level of embarrassment you brought on yourself with that proposal. On the surface SOA appears to be helpful and good-intentioned, but if you take 5 seconds to think about the type of user it attracts and the path a user takes to get there, it's not just ridiculous, it's damaging.
 
Shog9
Shog9
Until then... This is just a waste of time and energy for both of us.
(PS: data on the "type" of user being attracted is publicly available as well... You'd be well-advised to familiarize yourself with it)
 
bjb568
bjb568
This is simple. People have problems, people have solutions. We share them. But some people are crappy and that's a problem. Crappy people won't help themselves, so SOA is unproductive.
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Shog9 You have no concrete publicly available data on the type of user that a nonexistent site attracts.
 
hichris123
hichris123
4:50 PM
@JasonC Personally, I don't think it's going to work. But maybe Shog is smarter than us. Maybe. Give it a chance?
 
Jason C
Jason C
@hichris123 But that's the thing. SOA is particularly dangerous (in my opinion) because it's the type of thing, I think, that both feels really good to support and does a ton of long term damage. I will do my best to not give it a chance, because I suspect it will get enough bandwagoning to make it never go away, regardless of consequences.
Remember the same people who are allowed to ask crappy questions are also allowed to support and run a network site. This one is like a help vampire virus.
 
Shog9
Shog9
@hichris123 I have grave doubts as to whether such a site could work. But not because of "crappy people" - them's par for the course on the 'Net, indeed everwhere; a system that can't tolerate ignorance and laziness is doomed to failure. If it fails, it'll fail for the same reasons that any site fails: not enough participants with concrete problems or not enough people with concrete solutions.
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Shog9 But what really seems off to me is that MSO theoretically lets people do this already. And you had made a comment (and a dubious analogy) that MSO wasn't working for this purpose. I really don't understand how rebranding meta with a different URL solves whatever problem you saw with meta that was causing these people to skip it. It just creates whatever shortcoming meta has again, but with a different URL and front page theme.
 
hichris123
hichris123
@Shog9 Yeah, my main doubt is as to whether people are going to 1) find it, and 2) ask questions (not just a copy paste of IT ISN'T WORKING111).
 
Shog9
Shog9
@JasonC let's try a different approach... Assume a reasonably-intelligent but inexperienced asker, able to provide sufficient detail and write with clarity... What problem is his question most likely to suffer from on Stack Overflow?
 
Jason C
Jason C
4:57 PM
@Shog9 No; you're missing the key thing that sets SOA apart from other network sites, which is that it is essentially a stepping stone to SO. No other network site acts as a filter / gateway to another network site. Any attitudes / practices that SOA encourages become the background for new users who pass through there and onto SO. And SOA naturally encourages asking questions about things that are easily findable.
@Shog9 I would say most likely his question would be a duplicate.
 
Shog9
Shog9
@JasonC then why would he ask it?
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Shog9 Because he wanted somebody else to do the search for him, which is a behavior we do not desire here.
 
Shog9
Shog9
@JasonC why is it easier to ask than to search?
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Shog9 Because it's always easier to ask somebody else to do your work rather than do it yourself. It's less effort and less time commitment, you can just wait for the other person to use their time to do what you should have done.
 
Shog9
Shog9
@JasonC Do you believe that? I've asked all of 9 questions on Stack Overflow... Over the course of nearly 6 years. I'm nothing if not lazy - yet I search compulsively and ask rarely... Am I an anomaly? Do you prefer asking to searching?
 
Jason C
Jason C
5:02 PM
And your assumption is slanted a bit. You say "reasonably-intelligent but inexperienced", but you leave up in the air whether or not he values doing his own work vs. asking others to do his research for him. Such a person could totally show prior effort and not post a duplicate, or could not put any effort in at all. Wherever you are going with this is totally fuzzied by the fact that you left a specification of this quality out of your hypothetical asker.
What you are actually attempting to do is rather weaselly I think: You're purposefully leading me on to talk about how his problem is most likely a duplicate but based on an example person who "sounds good on paper". So be honest with your hypothetical qualities. Say "Assume a reasonably intelligent, but lazy asker".
 
Shog9
Shog9
@JasonC does showing effort necessarily preclude a duplicate? I've often observed otherwise; indeed, I commented on this duplicate just a little bit ago because it was in danger of being reopened and yet is clearly a duplicate (albeit one with copious amounts of effort shown).
@JasonC why?
@JasonC Why? I'm lazy. Yet I ask few questions, and rarely duplicates. Why is "lazy" a necessary part of a description for you?
 
Jason C
Jason C
Sorry the chat gets weird for me sometimes.
@Shog9 1) I dislike when others ask me to search for them and do not wish that on anybody else. 2) It is generally faster, in reality, to search then ask. 3) I am often frustrated by internet noise in search results and do not want to contribute to it with more duplicate content.
(For reference to a reader, shog's "Why?" referred to an accidentally-deleted comment, "I prefer searching over asking.")
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword detected: Vashikaran specialist princess +91-9950211818 on english.stackexchange.com
 
Shog9
Shog9
@JasonC Same here, particularly #2 - asking is painfully slow on average compared to finding a solution to an already-asked question. Preferring asking to searching is inefficient.
 
TGMCians
TGMCians
@SmokeDetector SPAM
 
Shog9
Shog9
5:08 PM
Which again raises the question, why would someone of reasonable intelligence, able to perform this same cost-benefit analysis, still ask a duplicate question?
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Shog9 What do you mean "why is lazy a necessary part"? Sure; being panicked with a short deadline and not having enough time to search (or at least thinking you don't), could be a reason as well (which I disagree with), but generally, some amount of laziness / entitlement, I think, is always associated with asking before searching.
 
Jan Dvorak
Jan Dvorak
flagged
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Shog9 Entitlement, then.
Or panic.
 
Unihedron
Unihedron
Gone.
 
Jason C
Jason C
Or some negative quality, sure, perhaps not necessarily laziness.
 
TGMCians
TGMCians
5:09 PM
thnx Jan
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Shog9 At some point you should tell me where you are going with this.
(Brb)
 
bjb568
bjb568
@Shog9 They usually won't. These non-idiots are high-quality users who don't need SOA.
 
Shog9
Shog9
@JasonC simple: I want more folks like me on SO. Or, perhaps not so much like me as like you. Maybe like @hichris123. Whatever; the point is, folks with many, many negative qualities who are none the less able to find answers to their questions without actually asking them most of the time and able to ask reasonable questions on those rare occasions when they can't find the answer.
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
@Shog9 unless you don't know enough to know what to search for, but in that case, it is also probably the exact kind of thing that SOA could help with
 
Shog9
Shog9
@AJHenderson bingo
The problem to solve here is... How do you get someone from Point A (knows nothing, can't search, can't debug) to Point B (knows how to break a problem down into questions they can self-answer 99% of the time, knows how to present the remaining 1% in a form that others can understand and answer)?
 
Braiam
Braiam
5:13 PM
@Shog9 nobody performs cost-benefit analysis on that level
 
Shog9
Shog9
Donno about you, but I learned that via trial and error
(the same way I learn everything; lots and lots of error)
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
I don't have a lot of experience on SO, but I know on a lot of the sites I participate in heavily, most of the duplicates that could have been answered by searching are situations where the asker clearly didn't even know the basic terms to use in a search
 
Shog9
Shog9
Which is great, but not everyone has a high tolerance for error - and SO isn't necessarily well-suited for folks primed to make lots of mistakes out of the gate.
Schools sure as hell ain't teaching debugging. At least, not well.
8
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
they get enough out so that an experienced individual can piece it together and go "oh yeah, that's a dupe" but they didn't have a prayer in the world of finding it on their own
@Shog9 heck, I went to a top 10 school and they barely taught programming. It was all theory
 
Shog9
Shog9
@AJHenderson So as I see it, we have a need that's not being met right now. A set of knowledge that isn't being efficiently transferred from the folks who've learned it (via trial and error or whatever) to the folks who need to learn it.
 
Braiam
Braiam
5:17 PM
Schools aren't practical problems solving learning centers
 
Shog9
Shog9
Can something like SOA work for that? Who knows. It's easy to identify areas that need a SE site, quite another to actually gather the right people into creating a site.
@Braiam in my experience, schools are generally terrible at teaching folks to solve problems.
Which is a shame, but it's what we got.
 
Jamal
Jamal
Agreed. My understanding has taken a turn for the best upon discovering SE.
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
yeah, that's my main concern as far as SOA goes is longevity. I think there are good questions that can be asked there, but I mostly worry about long term discoverability, but then again, it probably is something needed by the broader community, so better to try to isolate it someplace where those participating are interested in helping with that
I doubt it will be "successful" in the traditional SE sense, but I do think it could provide a lot of value potentially too
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Shog9 Ok, look. Let's say for the sake of argument that a reasonable ... reason ... for asking before searching is because even an intelligent person may not be particularly good at searching for information because of how much information and noise there is on Google (or DDG or wherever). Ok? So given that, are you implying that the help center is as full of noise and hard to search as the rest of the internet, thus justifying the existence of SOA?
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
because clearly there IS a need for helping people get to the basic level of knowledge to be able to ask meaningful SO questions
 
Jason C
Jason C
5:20 PM
@Shog9 And yes, it's sickening, actually.
 
Shog9
Shog9
A lesson hard-learned during my time with SE has been that it is near-impossible to solve large behavioral problems by attacking them head-on. You have to convince a few people that there's a better way, and they'll do the same for a few more, and eventually you have enough believers to actually make a dent in it.
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
@Shog9 you know, I never put my finger on it that way, but I guess that is probably why my school was ranked so well. Because the focus of all that theory was actually being able to solve problems
and define the problems to solve
 
Jason C
Jason C
But SOA is an attempt to attack a large behavioral problem head-on, which is exactly my criticism of it!
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
but yeah, that does seem to be a minority
 
Braiam
Braiam
@Shog9 beware, to be considered a preacher is worse
 
Jason C
Jason C
5:22 PM
Help center, meta, close reason, etc. improvements are the things that should be concentrated on, not some brute force band-aid like SOA.
 
Shog9
Shog9
And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in
askin' good questions and walking out. They may think it's an
Organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said
Fifty people a day walking in askin' good questions and
walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement
And that's what it is, the Stack Overflow Academy Askin' Good Questions Movement, and all you gotta do to join is to sing it the next time it comes around on the guitar show two other people how to ask a decent question.
With feeling.
 
Jason C
Jason C
Besides, SOA isn't the equivalent of teaching people how to debug; don't pretend it is by linking it with noble goals like that. SOA is the equivalent of saying "Spoon-feeding you resources on how-to-ask isn't enough, so screw it, just ask us. But remember, do your research before asking." It's an oxymoron.
 
Braiam
Braiam
@Shog9 since it's dangerous to go alone, you have to find people, no? ;)
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Shog9 And again, are you implying that the help center is as difficult to search as the rest of the internet? Because that means the help center is the problem, and SOA doesn't solve that.
 
Shog9
Shog9
@JasonC the Internet is dead easy to search.
 
Undo
Undo
5:25 PM
I fully support SOA and the ideas behind it.
 
Shog9
Shog9
Most of the questions on SO can be answered by a search that excludes SO...
if you know what you're looking for.
But there's the problem.
 
Braiam
Braiam
@JasonC the problem with the Help Center is that it is too general to be helpful in the problems that SOA tries to solve
 
BoltClock's a Unicorn
BoltClock's a Unicorn
I feel so left out. I "got" Stack Overflow from day one and I had absolutely no trouble following the rules to the letter
13
 
Shog9
Shog9
If you know, the manual is just a way to avoid memory errors.
If you don't know, you might read the whole manual and still not recognize the solution when you found it.
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Shog9 I know that. And you know that. But I am only trying to see things from your point of view and figure out where you were going with the hypothetical person; and again for the sake of argument I assumed it was because said intelligent person was just having trouble finding information. I don't actually believe that the internet is hard to search. I'm genuinely making an effort to guess where you are coming from.
 
Shog9
Shog9
5:26 PM
You gotta know what you're looking for before you can find it.
 
BoltClock's a Unicorn
BoltClock's a Unicorn
And I have just enough written communication skills to get by which lend themselves to writing good questions and answers
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Shog9 No you don't. Not in the "how to ask" case. You just need to read e.g. Jon Skeet's question checklist. Why don't we just make that required reading and make passing a quiz on it a requirement for being able to post a question? :P
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
@BoltClock'saUnicorn yes, but you are also probably a user of above average intelligence with a decent understanding of the field
 
BoltClock's a Unicorn
BoltClock's a Unicorn
Exactly
 
Jason C
Jason C
@AJHenderson Which rather amusingly fits Shog9's (presumably intentionally) incomplete hypothetical profile. Which is another reason I have no idea where he was going with that.
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
5:29 PM
@JasonC let me try an example I've seen from Photography. Say you are asking about the thing that controls how much light gets in to the camera and makes the stuff blurry
now, to me, as an experienced photographer, I immediately recognize that as aperture, but if you didn't know terms like aperture or depth of field, you could have a lot of trouble finding that and instead end up looking at focus adjustments
@JasonC the decent understanding of the field is the part that doesn't fit
 
Jason C
Jason C
@AJHenderson Then you search for "thing that controls how much light goes into the camera", find mathisphoto.net/Articles/CameraControls.htm as the first result, and find "aperture" is the word. Which I just did, despite not knowing that, in what, 30 seconds?
 
user163250
@AJHenderson I feel the same way as BoltClock, but I assert that I'm a user of below average intelligence. Just me specifically though. Not BoltClock.
 
Jason C
Jason C
@AJHenderson And in any case I don't see how this relates to SOA.
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
@JasonC that's more a flaw in my description, it would be harder to find if you didn't know it was related to how much light went in
but I couldn't remember the exact case I have actually seen before
I've seen situations where it was not easily searchable for lack of having the correct words to search with
and not knowing what to ask to build up to that
 
Jason C
Jason C
@AJHenderson Usually I just bug them on english.se first, heh.
 
user163250
5:33 PM
Look, we can argue all day long about whether SOA is a good idea or not. How about we just try it out? If it doesn't work out, then we can just burn the whole darn thing to the ground and pretend that it never existed, just like we do with all the other failed beta sites.
 
user163250
Because the way I see it, all of this constant arguing is just going around in circles and going no where.
 
Braiam
Braiam
@BoltClock'saUnicorn heh
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Cupcake NO. I am vehemently against "just trying it out" for reasons stated above. It's too "feel good" to fail after it gets started, and the long term bad effects are too slow to see until its too late. It just needs to go away now.
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
@Cupcake which does bring up a good point, seems like Jason's main concern is that it will get entrenched and cause problems for SO, but if it does, then SE can always kill it off to stop the problem
even if the community itself is healthy
there is nothing that requires SE to keep it running
 
Jason C
Jason C
@AJHenderson ... I suppose you're right.
 
BoltClock's a Unicorn
BoltClock's a Unicorn
5:37 PM
WHAT'S THAT?
JASON CONCEDING THAT SOMEONE ELSE IS RIGHT?
(just messin')
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Shog9 In any case I'll keep my arguments to here and to Area51 and stop leaving snarky comments on SO questions.
Well, unless the temptation is too great to resist. Let's say, I'll limit to one snarky comment per week.
 
Shog9
Shog9
uh, yeah... if you were doing that please do stop
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Shog9 Well, more what I mean is, I'll stop leaving sideways comments and picking on you here too. Sorry about that.
 
Shog9
Shog9
@AJHenderson yeah; don't think folks realize how many proposals get killed at some point along the road, for all sorts of reasons.
 
Jason C
Jason C
Although I'll still maintain that SOA = Shog9's On Acid, if anybody asks. :P
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
5:41 PM
I still can't stop thinking of the boss from SW:TOR
 
Jason C
Jason C
@Shog9 This isn't your usual proposal, though. All I'm asking is at least stay mindful that this is different, both in purpose and in how it "feels" to people, especially when interpreting the standard set of reactions like up/down votes and +1's.
 
Shog9
Shog9
Nothing that involves SO in any way is ever not "different"
 
Jason C
Jason C
Well, it's easy to gloss over the uniqueness and lump it in to general plurals e.g. the "many proposals" that get killed.
 
Shog9
Shog9
@JasonC point is, everyone thinks their proposal is special / different / unique / deserving of special treatment. And sometimes they have really good arguments to back up that assertion. It doesn't matter; they still gotta pass muster when it comes to the normal boring criteria for sticking around / moving forward.
 
Jason C
Jason C
GOTO BeginningOfArgument;
 
BoltClock's a Unicorn
BoltClock's a Unicorn
5:54 PM
RIP @JasonC mauled by velociraptors
6
 
Jason C
Jason C
^ Error: Unreachable Code
 
Shog9
Shog9
that should be a warning. Only pedants compile with -Werror
 
Jason C
Jason C
Well, it's an error in Java. Or in Java++, which I just made up.
Besides it just starts another argument, because I do feel pretty strongly that deinonychus' don't get the love they deserve.
 
Braiam
Braiam
is there a way to search for questions only in my favorite tags?
ie: answers:1.. infavoritetags:yes score:2
@JasonC that only search for favorited/stared questions
 
Jason C
Jason C
Yeah...
I'd upvote that as a feature request if it doesn't exist.
 
Braiam
Braiam
6:04 PM
1
Q: Searching for Q's on SO that are in one of my favorite tags and unanswered

HK1I did some looking at the search help and tried out the options but nothing seemed to work. How do I found questions that are unanswered AND IN one of my favorite tags?

support search unanswered-questions tag-search favorite-tags
 
TGMCians
TGMCians
6:16 PM
28
Q: Missing features of mobile chat

timothymhMobile chat is missing a lot of features (understandable, as it's mobile). However, there are a number of features not currently implemented that are almost necessities: Replies — Sure, we can type "@so-and-so" and hope we've gotten the so-and-so correct, but this doesn't work well when replyin...

feature-request chat mobile-web
when it is possible to have those features in mobile chat...
 
TGMCians
TGMCians
6:43 PM
 
TGMCians
TGMCians
6:54 PM
status-closed
 
Jamal
Jamal
7:10 PM
Wow I got down voted for asking an honest question you guys seriously don't bother to help some one new to coding? My question is just as important as the next guy. — Xxcoder14xX 3 hours ago
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
@Braiam intags:mine
 
Braiam
Braiam
@Jamal when I read that question, I remembered this image:
@TimStone I knew there was something like that
 
bjb568
bjb568
7:28 PM
Ahh… watch her grow! My CW answer has grown substantially. stackoverflow.com/posts/25110511/revisions
 
Jamal
Jamal
7:45 PM
 
rene
rene
@Jamal Pigs in... ?
 
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