Tavern on the Meta

1:26 AM

Dupe chain!

http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/68849/migration-path-from-all-metas-to-mso
http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/67637/add-a-migration-path-from-per-site-meta-sites-to-mso-to-avoid-dupes-across-sites
http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/55778/migrate-questions-from-meta-stackexchange-sites-to-meta-stackoverflow-com

Pekka

8:54 AM

Heh @Oded, I had the weirdest dream tonight, featuring you!

In the dream, I had a friend who was building a racing game, but he was out of his depth and so far had only managed to produce a isometric 2D view of the racing track.
You were in town, getting ready for your new job, and agreed to help him. You came around to my friend's place, and I left.

When I came back later (the dream's main story was about something else) my friend was sitting baffled on the sofa.
You were standing in front of the computer and had turned the 2D view into a full-blown 3D game!

You were simultaneously talking to your family on the phone (I expected it to be Hebrew, but it was English) and making final touches to the game (adjusting the birds-eye perspective) by turning a screw on the flat screen with a screw driver.

The general sentiment in the room was that this man knows what he is doing

Oded

9:36 AM

@Pekka - Strangely enough, that pretty much mirrors last night, except for the screw driver. I used a hammer.

Pekka

9:54 AM

@Oded lol!

Oded

@Pekka - The funniest part for me is how you ended that:

1 hour ago, by Pekka

The general sentiment in the room was that this man knows what he is doing

Ha! If only you knew the truth ;)

Pekka

@Oded We were all very impressed. It was some kind of a console that you could program in C# (does such a thing really exist? I'll have to check....)

Indeed it does! Cool. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_XNA

Oded

@Pekka - Well, Visual Studio does have a toolbox as well. So it all works out :)

gnat

12:08 PM

tags trusted-user (14 questions) and 20k (9 questions), should these be synonyms? Trusted user tag wiki excerpt says "They of the 20000 reputation..."

Tim Yi Jiang

12:23 PM

@gnat Should be merged, yeah

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM A

1:56 PM

@Moshe you should know better than to ask shopping questions on SO :-P

Crazy Buddy

Hi all...

I'm a freshmen to tavern ;-)

Oded

Welcome, @CrazyBuddy

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM A

@CrazyBuddy What's up?

Crazy Buddy

Nah... I'm just an audience all time ;-)

I watch what you guys speak :P

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM A

@CrazyBuddy eh?

Crazy Buddy

2:02 PM

@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA Are you here the whole day?

Pretty amazed of that :-)

Which guy gave this name "tavern"..?

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM A

On occasion.

Crazy Buddy

My dict. says that it's a BAR..!

Oded

That's true. The English Pub is short for Public - a public place of gathering. Tavern and Bar are synonyms.

Crazy Buddy

Nice name though ;-)

I just thought of visiting several chat rooms in weekends...

Other days, I'm caged in h-bar :-)

One more thing...

Why is this "flute-kinda" sound in Tavern?

I thought my sub-woofer is making such a tweeting noise..!

Daniel Fischer

@CrazyBuddy The one you hear when someone @-messages you?

Crazy Buddy

2:12 PM

Yeah...

Daniel Fischer

It's there so you know you've been spoke to even if you're on a different page.

Crazy Buddy

Yeah, something like such a crackling - made me reverse a song...

to check whether there's something wrong with the player :-)

jadarnel27

2:34 PM

The first time I used a chat.stackexchange room (as opposed to here, chat.meta.stackoverflow), I was surprised that the @-notification noise was different.

I was also downright startled the first time I used the desktop layout for chat on my phone and that noise came through my phone's speaker =)

Oded

Ghosts in the machine, @jadarnel27 :)

jadarnel27

2:57 PM

Haha, indeed. Spooky chat application.

mootinator

3:41 PM

@DanielFischer Ooooh, that's coming from here. No wonder nobody ever says anything when I answer my communicator pin.

Fosco

Thanks @Oded !

Oded

3:53 PM

@mootinator - What, no funny looks in the office when you start talking to your lapel?

mootinator

My wife gives me funny looks all the time, I wouldn't notice anything unusual about that.

jadarnel27

I'm gonna start doing that whenever I get up to go get coffee.

Oded

@jadarnel27 - What? Get funny looks from @mootinator's wife?

jadarnel27

"Yes captain? To the bridge? Of course, right away, captain."

mootinator

MAIN SCREEN TURN ON

jadarnel27

4:03 PM

Hahahahaha @Oded. Well played =)

mootinator

4:16 PM

The AYB retro-return-date (Zero Wing Zero Hour) should be around AD 2021.

jadarnel27

7:34 PM

Do you guys remember when mentioning Justin Bieber in here was star-bait?

I do.

rlemon

Quick Question: Just had my meta post removed (spun out of control, and I agree it should have been) ... but ma reps... ma beautiful beautiful reps... I assume these are also gone for goodstown.

I need meta rep to counter the meta downvotes.

iz important!

Mechanical snail

Incorrectly closed as dupe: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/87572/…

Shog9

7:49 PM

@rlemon yes, they are

@rlemon naw

Anna Lear

@Mechanicalsnail I sent you an email a couple days back. Did you see it? (No huge rush, but I figured I'd ask.)

Shog9

Don't listen to her, @Mech - RUSH! RUSH!

Anna Lear

@rlemon Yeah, sorry about that. It was an important issue to bring up, but man, did it ever go south. I suggest not making any references to a specific user next time - that usually just breeds speculation like rabbits. :)

rlemon

8:08 PM

Sorry Anna - I didn't think about that. But I will remember for the future :)

Anna Lear

No worries :)

rlemon

But I swear if I ever see you in public I'm going to introduce myself - watch out for a semi-short nerdy looking guy with a fanboyish look of admiration in his eyes while he cowers in your presence :P

although, I admire anyone with power of moderation on sites / services I enjoy :P

mootinator

Disembodied heads are the best kind of people.

2

Anna Lear

@rlemon That covers just about half the town here... ;) Well, except for cowering and admiration.

Cowering before me would be impressive. I'm pretty short.

rlemon

no, just a bunch of nerds who don't live here but go to school here and crowding up my damn tim hortons line in the morning!

Driving from HomerWatson Kitchener on 7/8 to King street cut off every day 8am and 5pm is the worst thing in my life right now .

does SE have an office in waterloo? I've never seen anything

Anna Lear

8:16 PM

Nah, I work from home.

rlemon

lucky you. nahh I can't say that

if I worked from home I wouldn't get nearly as much done .

Anna Lear

I would like to go on record to say that I'm very productive. =)

Oded

@rlemon - One just needs some self discipline. I am positive I will be extremely productive when working from home.

Anna Lear

The key for me is to set up regular work hours.

Conveniently, this is basically a regular job that I happen to be doing from home as opposed to the usual type of working from home as a freelancer where you can basically just do whatever and there are no other people to sync up with.

rlemon

possibly would work for me... I just know how productive I am when I try to get work done during personal hours or on weekends...

Helps that Kitchener Waterloo has absolutely nothing going on in it

mootinator

8:21 PM

@AnnaLear I hate having no other people to sync up with.

Oded

It is about setting boundaries. Having an office and being in the office (mentally) are different things.

rlemon

@ my job I have no one to sync up with . :P but I do get a nice big desk and don't have steam installed (no steam is important)

If I wasn't so horribly addicted to SE/SO I would be working non-stop.

Oded

@rlemon - Make sure you also uninstall mine sweeper.

mootinator

Hmm, when did @jcolebrand get replaced with a monkey?

jcolebrand

@AnnaLear I have to add "I have to take a shower and get dressed like I'm going to be at the office" for this to work for me.

@mootinator ages ago. They figured the moderation quality would improve

Shog9

8:23 PM

@jcolebrand That is entirely unreasonable

rlemon

@Oded never was a mine sweeper fan - freecell was my addiction.

jcolebrand

Kevin do you do ASP.NET stuffs?

mootinator

@jcolebrand I do.

Shog9

I would like to state though, for the record, that I do often wear pants in order to feel suitably "professional"

rlemon

I hate pants...

so cumbersome

Bermuda shorts is the way to go!

jcolebrand

8:25 PM

@mootinator Good. Will your younglings be underfoot tonight around 8-10 Central US?

I need fresh eyes

Oded

Good thing I know you are speaking American. This reads rather differently in GB :)

Tim Stone

@AnnaLear My regular work hours are 24/7.

rlemon

From business straight to fun town - one outfit

Oded

@rlemon - Your birthday suit?

rlemon

Tip: Even with 'moderate' safe search - google images 'Birthday suit' is not a smart idea.

mootinator

8:26 PM

@jcolebrand Is Central US different from Central Canada? (I'm sure I can get time for a good enough reason.)

jcolebrand

@CrazyBuddy That was before me even, but I am the one that named it "the Tavern on the Meta". It started either here or SO, but I think it started on SO as the place to gather and chat. However, the current title is an allusion to "The Tavern on the Green" which used to be a thing.

@mootinator I have no idea. Presumably. But I can never recall where anyone lives ;-)

mootinator

@jcolebrand Wait... Is this some sort of "Minority Report" thing?

Oded

@mootinator Futurama is proof of that

jcolebrand

I just know you say "eh" and have tots

@mootinator haha, good callbackk

No, I've just already solicited Shog's thoughts on it, twice I believe, as well Caspers, and I'm looking for someone else to listen to me rant and rubberduck

rlemon

Conversations here are much more sensible and less random / rage filled than they are in the JS room.

mootinator

8:28 PM

@jcolebrand Yeah, ok.

jcolebrand

And this being "office hours" we should pretend to do office things, not 20% things

@rlemon Yes, yes they are

@mootinator and I would snag TheUnhandledException except he seems to have gone missing today

mootinator

I'm supposed to be installing new project things today.

jcolebrand

Besides, he doesn't do ASP.NET

I'm supposed to be devising new form things today

mootinator

Unfortunately all the new project things are old versions of my last project things D:

rlemon

@jcolebrand Well that is much less entertaining.

mootinator

8:29 PM

Here, install this older version of Oracle than you have D:

jcolebrand

@rlemon that depends. Do you want to have conversations with 16 year olds or adults?

rlemon

I have been known to C# a thing or two in my day. Never did give ASP much time, or any time. has it improved much since the 1.1 days?

jcolebrand

@mootinator They only want to keep you on your toes

@rlemon you should stick with me. With me you will learn things.

mootinator

*Disclaimer: I mostly do ASP.NET MVC. Webforms mostly just makes me want to punch things.

jcolebrand

@rlemon if you haven't done ASP.NET MVC3 with Razor, you're truly missing out on what C# has become

rlemon

8:30 PM

@jcolebrand hehe - I write winforms apps :P I miss out on everything

jcolebrand

@mootinator Good. I may make you want to punch .NET when I'm through with you

You'll be all "why can't I do things like this in .NET"

Oded

@jcolebrand - I can lend a hand if you need

jcolebrand

and then rage and turn green (or grey, or in non-canon, red or blue) and SMASH all the things

@Oded mostly just rubberducking atm, but thanks

Be here between 8 and 10 Central :D

Tim Stone

@jcolebrand I'll consider it. :P

jcolebrand

Altho, that would be like 2 and 4 for you wouldn't it?

Oded

8:32 PM

@jcolebrand - Also when in need of turning green and smashing things

rlemon

I'll admit I have spent too long with PHP in the 90's and early 2000s and then said screw you web for most of mid to late 2000s

Tim Stone

(but no, I'm a bit sick and accompanied today, which is why I've been AWOL)

jcolebrand

@Oded very good. Sign up with TimStone over by the taps, he's taking names for that.

rlemon

now I'm just addicted to js. It's a beautiful fun language.

jcolebrand

@TimStone I had my suspicions you were, you normally aren't very active when you are.

@rlemon So help me combine all the things you love and need to love :D

mootinator

8:32 PM

@jcolebrand @Oded seems like the sort of person who would be helpful about 10 seconds before me. I don't know if I can handle the competition.

Oded

What's @TimStone serving that turns people green? Or is it just the amount?

mootinator

;D

jcolebrand

@rlemon read this: blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/shayf/archive/2010/11/04/…

rlemon

@jcolebrand well if you're going node.js path now I'll be joining you shortly.

jcolebrand

Pay particular attention to "Razor"

Oded

8:33 PM

Well, if you don't mind me editing my responses for 10 minutes after first posting ;)

jcolebrand

@rlemon Yeah, you and I were discussing this already. :p

I'm telling you guys, I have been pulling on everyone's ears

HOWEVER

Tim Stone

@Oded The Neck Snap

mootinator

lol

jcolebrand

Things are coming together quite nicely. They are starting to look up up up.

Tim, I think I have a razor, but I may need your help on some regexes

Oded

@TimStone - Is that another Futurama reference?

Tim Stone

8:35 PM

@jcolebrand Yay!

@Oded It is not.

jcolebrand

@TimStone I've tested the parts individually but not in sync

@rlemon feel free to tell me when you've read that

Because then I want to give you two githubs to peruse

And then tell me if I'm off my fecking gourd or if I'm onto something

rlemon

@jcolebrand My company works with embedded controls systems, while scratching my RandD hat trying to figure out a sensible way to facilitate remote management with little cost - I determined that if we put node.js on the device we can throw up a small little webserver - trying to learn as much about VPNs as I can so I can make this as easy to configure and setup as possible.

jcolebrand

And if you say "Haml" I may just have to hurt you :p (coffeescript, bleh)

@rlemon do you need a webserver to interface with?

I bet I can help you do that

rlemon

@jcolebrand disclaimer: rlemon is a purist in many regards when it comes to coding - he often will take many many hours to do something vanilla vs just grabbing at the popular libraries

jcolebrand

@rlemon good

Because that's precisely the sort of help I need

Hours of meticulous coding (or even recoding someone else's library) so it's pure and vanilla, and doesn't involve lots of other crap.

I hate when I npm install {package} and it downloads 3MB of shite

Did you read that blog, or even scan it somewhat deeply?

mootinator

8:38 PM

You'd have loved the Grails project I was involved with.

rlemon

@jcolebrand bascically I have like 90 applications running in conjunction to create the control system - they all need to report to the HMI - this is all good the stupid console HMI works aready - I want to turn the ENTIRE thing to report via a browser being displayed on the screen (I figure I'll grab webkit or chromium and just strip it down) then I would also (using the VPN router pre configured) like to have the client being able to access this remotely using his pc or mobile device.

Oded

@jcolebrand It's a nice syntax comparison. Enjoyed reading it when it was posted.

mootinator

It downloaded hundreds of MB of garbage on each build.

jcolebrand

@Oded Aye, but if you know those, then you don't need to see the projects I want to link to rlemon so he can understand what he's missing.

rlemon

@jcolebrand bookmarked it for later.

jcolebrand

8:39 PM

@Oded I'm also thinking of making my Razor support the Razor2 attribute specs. I just haven't quite worked it out

rlemon

@jcolebrand rlemon.github.com/Notifier.js <- thats what this is

jcolebrand

@rlemon Then later, I also want you to look at the templating systems here: github.com/olado/doT and here: github.com/visionmedia/ejs and here: github.com/haml/haml

rlemon

actually got some attention in js weekly

jcolebrand

@rlemon there may be hope for you yet in my project needs ;-)

Now, can you do browser chrome toasts?

If not, @TimStone can teach you.

(when he isn't "accompanied" ;-) )

Oded

Someone just asked on programmers:

0

Q: Newbie ASP.NET developer being forced into MVC4 with WebForms

I recently got hired on as a new ASP.NET developer (C# code behind). When I arrived, I was told that they were moving to MVC 4, and so I bought two books on that. However, the other day I learned that they are NOT using Razor, but using WebForms. Most of the results via Google returned article...

Thought it was rather fitting, seeing view engines were discussed.

rlemon

8:42 PM

@jcolebrand most of this is conceptual from my end. I'm still working on re-writing the 90 applications to work under a new platform.

once I get them working i'll be 'tinkering' with these ideas a lot more

mootinator

@Oded I'd upvote your answer, but it's a comment ;)

rlemon

I didn't need it to be an answer to upvote :P

jcolebrand

@Oded well, I thought that Razor had some other baked in goodies. Something about helpers or something. Or were those just MVC3 releases?

rlemon

" Here, take your meaningless +1 "

jcolebrand

I'm building in Url and Html helpers and ViewBag, and I need to write a plugin system.

Errr, a registration system

Oded

8:44 PM

@jcolebrand - The helpers are indeed MVC 3 goodies.

mootinator

"Get used to typing <% %> instead of @ sucker!"

jcolebrand

Like, "write the helper, name the file the function name, drop it in this dir, it gets auto-required"

@mootinator fortunately the tooling prevents that being a serious need

Oded

@mootinator Heh. What would you say to someone that needs to move to VB.NET from C#?

mootinator

:D

@Oded ". . . D:"

Oded

"What do VB.NET programmers have short fingers?"

Hint: The answer is in the question.

rlemon

8:46 PM

@jcolebrand my immediate project is the re-write of this: beta.lemonmeme.com I have the functionality upgrades done and the new images / fonts collected - working on a responsive UI that also respects the canavas et al is proving to be a lot more work than I thought it would be.

mootinator

;)

jcolebrand

@Oded I would introduce them to the open source C#/VB.NET/Boo IDE icsharpcode.net/opensource/sd that auto-translates between the languages

Oded

Tsk tsk. Translation between .NET languages? I never understood those who think they need that.

mootinator

jcolebrand

I just write in VB.NET when needed, or C# when needed

Also, I thought that the WebForms was an engine, and ASP.NET Templates were the alternative to Razor

Oded

8:50 PM

@jcolebrand - Yes. The OP is confusing the view engine with the technology. They are using the web forms markup view engine instead of razor, but still in MVC, if I read the question correctly.

jcolebrand

idisposable.co.uk/2012/05/…

This article backs that up

What are your thoughts on .mobile.cshtml

Good strategy or pisspoor?

Oded

mobile teamplate support?

rlemon

I wonder if Anna is listed in the phone book? creepy internet stalker eyes.....

jcolebrand

If you were asked to design it today, how would you define it?

Would you do .mobile.cshtml or some other way?

Oded

Difficult for me to comment, having done very little mobile work.

jcolebrand

8:52 PM

I know you can see the direction I'm headed with this

I feel like there's two options here.

Oded

But I'd probably go down the infrastructure route to handle this. I don't like the idea of having too many separate views.

mootinator

I don't see an inherent problem with .mobile.cshtml

jcolebrand

@mootinator my beef is this: two files.

mootinator

@jcolebrand Yeah.

jcolebrand

When it's all in one file you're forced to consider all the potential ramifications, etc.

Because it's staring you in the face

Doing stuff like updating a selector or rewriting javascript and looking at the markup makes you consider how it works on both, if you're keeping things fairly consistent.

But if you're intent on serving up two different sets of pages, there's nothing wrong with that either.

Oded

8:54 PM

@jcolebrand Similar reasons for my dislike of database triggers

jcolebrand

@Oded exactly

rlemon

@jcolebrand I'm totally just borking my nose in here and don't understand the context: but doesn't one file break separation of code and concerns?

jcolebrand

You haven't studied the Razor stuff

rlemon

fair enough: out of my element :P

mootinator

I have used cssgrid.net for most of my recent projects. That worked fine for me until people who didn't bother figuring out how it works started writing views :P

jcolebrand

8:55 PM

@section body {
  <div>@field</div>
}
@section mobileBody {
  <span>@field</span>
}

@rlemon not in a negative way, just lots of things to consider and ask around about

rlemon

I couldn't design an Orange if someone gave me a grapefruit to study from.. twitter.github.com/bootstrap therefore I use twitter bootstrap to alleviate all of the headaches I get trying to make my designs pixel perfect on my own.

jcolebrand

I don't know that I care for .mobile.cshtml here, but I'm one man.

However, I'm nothing if not flexible, and if there's two or three ways to do the same thing then I'll do that.

rlemon

I need to get into WPF so I can hang my coat on all of these winforms projects I am supporting.

jcolebrand

And actually what I'm contemplating is this:

@section body {
  <div>@field</div>
}
@section body mobile {
  <span>@field</span>
}
@section body tablet {

}

So if you don't specify a restricting name then it takes the most generic one, and similarly for if you ask for one that doesn't exist

Oded

@rlemon - I find WPF requires quite a lot of study. In particular if you want to "do it right" (MVVM, messaging, commands, XAML etc...).

Of course, you can write WinForms in WPF too.

jcolebrand

8:59 PM

So if I asked for @renderPartial('body','android',data) the rule is that it would use the default body template (the div one)

rlemon

@Oded hrmm. maybe I'll just stick with winforms :P

I'm still trying to drop XP support.

jcolebrand

@TimStone do you wanna do my client-server messaging infrastructure over socket.io once I get a server stood up that you can play with so that we don't have many-tabs trying to communicate at once? ;-)

Oded

@rlemon - I know what you mean. Last place I contracted, they were still supporting SQL Server 2000.

rlemon

yea I get the occasional
"why doesn't it work on my windows?"
> what version?
"ME"

I got the boss to 'officially' allow me to only support XP SP2 or newer

but that was tough.

Oded

Can you even do WPF on XP?

rlemon

9:04 PM

I also get the joys of working with this:

Windows XP editions

Windows XP has been released in several editions since its original release in 2001. Windows XP is available in many languages. In addition, add-ons translating the user interface are also available for certain languages. __TOC__ Home and Professional {| border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" style="float:right; margin-left:1em;" |+Windows XP cover boxes |- ||| |- |Windows XP Home Edition and Professional(original box, version 2002) || Home Edition and Professional(updated cover box,includes Service Pack 2 update) |} The first two editions released by Microsoft are Windows XP Hom...

Oded

Gotta love people who accept an answer but don't upvote it.

@rlemon Never done embedded.

rlemon

XPe is a joke.

anyways. see you all later :P home time

/me is going to have to hang in meta more

Oded

Sounds like the JS room is a good spot for some trolling.

jcolebrand

@Oded gist.github.com/3841210adf03f17a6c5c I should mention that this is slightly off, there's a few changes to it. but it's largely intact

mootinator

@rlemon Is that just because AnnaLear lurks here? Stalker.

jcolebrand

9:09 PM

@mootinator because we're not a bunch of babbling 15 year old testosterone freaks

mootinator

Ha.

jcolebrand

strathweb.com/2013/01/… <-- I need this for later

gnat

@Shog9 wrt protection do you by chance know who understands details of "hotness algorithm"? I guess it's you but it doesn't hurt to ask. :) I am trying to figure how does it (does it?) take into account downvotes cast on answers and answers deletions

Oded

@jcolebrand He sure knows a lot about web api.

jcolebrand

@Oded sarcasm or honest injun?

Oded

9:11 PM

@jcolebrand Honest. Much of it goes over my head on the first read. Part of my blog roll.

Shog9

@gnat IIRC, it's still this:

93

Q: What formula should be used to determine "hot" questions?

Right now the front page Popular tab is fairly broken -- it's a simple descending sort by views. As Joel said in podcast #18, it is "a self-fulfilling prophecy." But this is not intentional, it's only because we haven't had time to improve it yet! As I sit down to write a better algorithm, I tho...

discussion stackoverflow algorithm hot-questions

Oded

@jcolebrand Lacking some context... what am I looking at, exactly?

jcolebrand

@Oded it's a nodejs version of an MVC3 style controller

sort of

idk if you do much javascript

Oded

@jcolebrand - Yeah, figured it was JS. Not done much node work, but shouldn't return λ.View(models); be a callback (seeing as I'd expect this to involved disk IO)?

jcolebrand

it could be

I can't define what happens within your method

But I can show you how a basic numeric function would return

Oded

9:15 PM

Was a bit confused at the mix of .NET MVC and JS :)

jcolebrand

And do you get the joke about the lambda?

@Oded that's what I need rubberducking on tonight, mixed with the webapi link

Oded

Sure, though my thoughts about it being a Gimel may require a lookup.

jcolebrand

lambda -> closure -> callbacks involving parent elements

And because the return methods are defined on a globally assigned prototype you can't just return View() (I've even tried getting it into a global space, no such luck .. yet) so ... that's the closest I've come.

Oded

Interesting project, though my JS foo is not up to scratch. Enough to get what you posted in node context, but not enough to lend a hand, I fear.

jcolebrand

@Oded I presume then that you are not familiar with "rubberducking"?

Rubber duck debugging

Rubber duck debugging, rubber ducking, and the rubber duckie test are informal terms used in software engineering to refer to a method of debugging code. The name is a reference to a likely apocryphal story in which an unnamed expert programmer would keep a rubber duck by his desk at all times, and debug his code by forcing himself to explain it, line-by-line, to the duck. To use this process, a programmer explains code to an inanimate object, such as a rubber duck, in the expectation that upon reaching a piece of incorrect code and trying to explain it, the programmer will notice his/her...

Oded

9:19 PM

codinghorror.com/blog/2012/03/rubber-duck-problem-solving.html

I fear I am familiar with the duck

jcolebrand

lol

much as my asking .mobile.cshtml vs "many sections in one viewfile"

That's what I'm wanting tonight

I'm currently working on a "razor view engine" for node.js

You may have noticed, if you've read any body else's nodejs, that my "Controller" doesn't offer a "req" or "res" object.

I hide all that. I ask you to expose the vars you need in the parameter decl, and then I match those from passed values or querystring or URL routing.

You return the type of object and I render and return it appropriately

And because it's node.js, I can also implement some stuff for socket.io right into the mix of things.

Oded

I can imagine this can be quite the speed demon, in particular if the file IO can be reduced (caching the view templates etc)

mootinator

Interesting.

jcolebrand

@Oded exactly

it means restarting the server to recache the files, unless I can build in a repl access that can let you clear the buffers (hint: I want to do this) and rebuild them

But, in the meanwhile, I can just make an adminstrative page that does that

Oded

Nice project, @jcolebrand

jcolebrand

9:26 PM

:D

gnat

@Shog9 thanks! that seems to fit my observations. Straightforward Ascores may be what makes it still a bit of "self-fulfilling prophecy" Would be interesting to try more conservative approach than that

jcolebrand

Razor, MVC views and controllers, Models passed right in so you just ask for them by name, then run them, no need doing "import class" or whatever

Socket.IO as a first class citizen that you can work with

cookie based auth (for now, one thing at a time) and OAuth baked in as soon as I can get time to work on that (feel like I need to show a page before I worry about authing it)

Oded

/me is off... glass of whisky with my name on it and an episode of Firefly to watch.

mootinator

This is some sort of lazy coder's wet dream?

jcolebrand

@Oded enjoy!

Oded

9:27 PM

Ta!

jcolebrand

@mootinator me?

mootinator

@Oded Ciao.

jcolebrand

I fucking hope so when it's done

mootinator

:D

jcolebrand

All the glue logic will exist for you

all you have to do is write the views and the models and the controllers

mootinator

9:28 PM

That's what I love about knockout.js.

I write "Here, do what I want you to." and it does.

Shog9

@gnat keep in mind, the goal of "hot" - to highlight questions that are unusually attractive / interesting to a lot of people - can itself be at odds with a desire to avoid "flash in the pan" questions. It also makes it hard to differentiate between activity caused by being featured in "hot" lists and activity that causes them to be featured.

jcolebrand

@mootinator and because it's MVC and has "return Json(object)" functionality, you can do a whole web API with no issue

mootinator

:D

It's going to be webscale, big data and synergy.

jcolebrand

well

idk about all that

I just want it to handle 1000 visitors on chat and have a website that's still functional, for one server.

mootinator

Okay, not big data.

jcolebrand

9:35 PM

meeting time

Shog9

In general, I tend to take complaints about "hot" lists causing problems with a pretty big grain of salt. For example, some folks on EL&U love to complain about the lousy questions that get highlighted in the multicollider - but of course, these also tend to be questions that are ill-defined and yet instantly get a half-dozen answers from regulars on the site. So the question was headed to hades before it ever picked up off-site activity.

gnat

@Shog9 sure. I understand that and... if honestly I don't feel bad about flash-in-the-pan, when it's genuine. My issue with AScores is that it's too straightforward and instead of catching "flash" may (in some cases) merely reflect the irrelevant fact that post is shown on top of hot list

@Shog9 at programmers and workplace lousy questions don't feel painful in that regard, at least to me it looks so. These are getting closed which moves them out of collider, and without collider, things appear to be manageable pretty well

these are good questions highlighted somewhat inorganically that look troublesome

rlemon

@mootinator ohh no! I've been figured out!

gnat

inorganically here means I feel like fair score is say about 100 (still there in the list, you see) but collider shows 150 200 250 etc

with every bump caused by crappy answer

Shog9

> For the "sheep", you need a populist slogan, a pitch, a catch phrase that will trigger sufficient support ("git is fantastic" is a good bet for programmers communities). For the "dogs", you need basic hand-waving skills - just enough blah blah to make sure answer isn't flaggable plus make it read sufficiently smoothly to avoid triggering vote-to-delete in case if 20Ker skims through it.

gnat

9:45 PM

and every such bump mindlessly pushes "hotness" higher and higher

Shog9

^^^ That is pretty much why so much of what's on-topic for Programmers (and TWP) got pushed out of SO (and why there are still folks up in arms about how much SO has gone downhill). If you were good at writing to an audience, you could rack up a lot more rep on SO than you'd get writing detailed answers to technical questions and... Well, some folks did just that.

gnat

@Shog9 there's a screen shot linked under "easy isn't it" that demonstrates this in action :)

Shog9

Of course, I just moved to MSO and continued playing to the audience there.

gnat

@Shog9 crap I was just trying to figure why MSO attracts me!

guess you nailed it

Shog9

Heh. Yup! You can argue for or against anything on MSO and get rep for it, if you know how to use the right structure.

2

Anna Lear

9:50 PM

@rlemon Hah. I'm sure we could grab a coffee or something sometime if you're into that sort of thing. I enjoy meeting random internet people, especially if they are probably not axe murderers.

Shog9

(which is, incidentally, why I tend to ignore the whole "downvotes are different" thing; folks don't get downvoted for proposing stupid ideas on MSO, they get downvoted for proposing unpopular ideas without realizing that they're doing so)

(or, in some cases, for proposing stupid ideas in the most inflammatory language possible because they get off on that for whatever reason)

rlemon

@AnnaLear awesome! It would be nice to verify that my internet associates are not large fat guys sitting in their basement.

Shog9

I got bad news for ya, @rlemon...

rlemon

also, I prefer piano wire - easier to conceal than an axe.

gnat

@Shog9 agree; at MSO it's often language that matters, the way how you wrap it makes or breaks votes

mootinator

9:52 PM

@rlemon I'm sitting upstairs thank you very much.

Anna Lear

@Shog9 ಠ_ಠ

rlemon

lol - eekkk didn't mean to hit so close to home for some.

:P my bad..

Rachel

@Shog9 Where is your "How to manage sheeps and dogs" comment from?

rlemon

@AnnaLear It would also nice to know someone who does partake in these 'community' meetups and events. The only ones I'm ever prevy too are softwarehamiltons events and the generally start too early for me to drive from work to there in an hour in rush hour

Shog9

@Rachel gnat

Rachel

9:56 PM

@Shog9 Thanks, I was curious :)

Anna Lear

@rlemon This may be relevant to your interests: twitter.com/WaterlooAlex/status/291639320979329024

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