Tavern on the Meta

G'morning @MarcGravell. If you have a free second at some point, I've got a not-terribly-important question related to something I was hoping to modify in Dapper.

@animuson Just look for the spaceship speeding down the highway. :P

Rebecca Chernoff

wanna know what's fun? spending 45 minutes debugging jquery...when the problem turns out to be a typo in my own code.

oops >_<

animuson

Ready the vote-to-close button, Marc!

@RebeccaChernoff: Oh that's a total VTC as too localized right there...

Tim Stone

@RebeccaChernoff Heh, that's what happened with that missing comma on the election site >_<

@animuson She actually did ask that kind of question once, I lost precious SO reps when it was finally deleted a few months ago. :o

Rebecca Chernoff

huh? it's not deleted...

it's there, basking in shame

Tim Stone

Really? Hmm...

animuson

5:33 AM

I must look this up...

Rebecca Chernoff

@animuson stackoverflow.com/questions/3915663/… |:

animuson

I'm totally voting to close :o

Tim Stone

Why did I think it was deleted? I'm beginning to think I really have lost it. |:

Shog9

oh, just look at that huge code dump...

Rebecca Chernoff

YEAH YEAH LET'S ALL LOOK AT MY CRAPPY QUESTION

q:

animuson

5:36 AM

Can I flag it? I really want to flag it. :o

Rebecca Chernoff

lol, I don't care. go ahead

Marc Gravell

@TimStone what's that, Tim?

Rebecca Chernoff

wanders off to figure out how to package up a wordpress plugin

Marc Gravell

in brown paper and string?

Rebecca Chernoff

if that makes it work on the server, sure.

animuson

5:42 AM

Mwuahaha your question will forever be an amusing part of my flagging history :D

Tim Stone

@MarcGravell Basically, I'd like to have Dapper optionally attempt to convert the returned value from IDataReader.GetValue() to the parameterized type T in cases where the returned value is a compatible primitive type, but I'm not sure if there's a sleek way to go about it outside of using Convert.ChangeType(), which seems to have some (relatively) significant overhead.

Rebecca Chernoff

now let's see...where is that ban button...

Tim Stone

The main problem being that the cast the deserializer does now causes the boxed primitive to be unboxed as the parameterized type, which fails with an exception since the parameterized type isn't actually the type of the value (i.e. I get a long that I know is really an integer, but asked for an int)

Marc Gravell

@TimStone IMO, your best option is to respect what comes back from the DB, i.e. (int)connection.Query<long>(...) - but I guess in your scenario you just have a T there, not an int or long

Tim Stone

The problem with that is that it means I have to make separate calls for each database.

Which seems...also bad, heh.

Marc Gravell

5:47 AM

multiple DBs but with slightly different schema, eh?

Tim Stone

The schema is exactly the same. MySQL returns COUNT(*) and literals (i.e. SELECT 1) as long. :/

Marc Gravell

have you tried the dynamic hack?

Tim Stone

Hmm, no.

Marc Gravell

i.e. (int)Query(....).Single().ColumnName

ah, damn, still need to fit T into there!

don't know; I'd need to look at some real examples, I suspect

Tim Stone

At the moment I've resorted to casting the result on the database side, but MySQL has somehow managed to make even that terrible by not actually allowing you to cast to a int directly. I had to set up some dummy function that basically coerces it using the parameter definition...very icky.

Sure, I'll see if I can get some out there for you. This is for Data Explorer, so nothing too foreign.

KronoS

5:58 AM

@RebeccaChernoff I haz a ? for ya

Rebecca Chernoff

Do you also haz $5?

KronoS

lol.. no :(

but we're getting a few bug reports over at meta.SU for the /review tab

Rebecca Chernoff

well I guess you can ask anyway q:

KronoS

I'm wondering if it's kosher if I just create a 'question' here in meta.SO for general bug reporting and feature requests

Lucifer

Auto Refresh of Page has been stopped or what ? i recently got an upvote , but it didn't change my reputation in title of page( on meta , browser: Chrome)

Rebecca Chernoff

6:01 AM

@KronoS there are a number of posts on meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/139536/…, a bit overwhelming but I know a couple people are focusing on the review stuff.

@KronoS it is only enabled on a few sites for a bit of a beta phase, so things are in a bit of a flux

KronoS

@RebeccaChernoff Ya I saw that, but wasn't sure if that was the official place to post the bugs/feature requests

Rebecca Chernoff

either works I suppose

wonder how much is doubly reported

KronoS

@RebeccaChernoff My goal is to try to not clutter the meta.SU with bugs that we really can't do much about. I'm going to suggest to the OP to ask here, but then I thought it'd be good to just have a central location for all the inquiries to this

Rebecca Chernoff

having stuff on that mso post would probably be easier as it puts stuff in one place, but tis fine to ask on a child meta as well

KronoS

But if the post regarding the announcement of this, is the best place then I'll suggest for users to post there

Tim Stone

6:05 AM

@MarcGravell Hm, can't push out those changes yet, but this would be a typical example of where it's frustrating me:

int totalVotes = Current.DB.Query<int>(SQL.Get(
        "SELECT COUNT(*) FROM Votes WHERE QuerySetId = @querySetId AND VoteTypeId = @voteType",
        "QuerySet.CountVotes"
    ),
    new { querySetId = revision.QuerySet.Id, voteType = (int)VoteType.Favorite }
).First();

KronoS

@RebeccaChernoff that makes sense. But wouldn't mso get more attention?

Rebecca Chernoff

'twould, aye

Tim Stone

Since MySQL returns long for that COUNT(*) I have to have a MySQL-specific query just to cast the return value, and using long would just choke on the SQL Server response instead...so same situation. And that makes me sad-face, because it seems silly. :(

KronoS

@RebeccaChernoff :/ ok so I'll suggest to the OP that they post from now on to mso... would setting up a question for centralized bug reporting and feature requests still be smart to do, or should we just rely on the initial post?

Rebecca Chernoff

the initial post is acting as that I believe...soooooo many answers on it lol

KronoS

6:11 AM

@RebeccaChernoff lol I know...

Tim Stone

Hmm, I wonder if Grace Note scheduled the chats yet... checks

KronoS

@RebeccaChernoff ok after reading the answers a little more I'm going to keep using that, and recommending that others use it as well. Thanks for the help!

Rebecca Chernoff

np

Tim Stone

She'll be sending you that bill for $5 in the mail, no worries.

Rebecca Chernoff

(:

KronoS

6:16 AM

@TimStone lol

Tim Stone

Hmm, six hours until work, plenty of time to work on the elections site.

Marc Gravell

7:05 AM

@TimStone could you use CAST(COUNT(*) as int) ?

Tim Stone

You'd think so.

Marc Gravell

I hear an implicit "but" in there

Tim Stone

Commit message: "I can't fathom how MySQL won't let us cast to a 32-bit int in 2012...but OK then"

CREATE FUNCTION `CAST_INT`(val INT) RETURNS INT(10) SIGNED DETERMINISTIC
BEGIN
  RETURN val;
END

I have to wrap it with that instead...

Marc Gravell

is it easier to cast to 64 bit on both?

Tim Stone

I suppose it would be, although since SQL Server is the original target I've tried to avoid making it jump through hoops just for the port's sake.

Plus it kind of pollutes the codebase, since the schema says "this value is assuredly an int", but I'd have to go convert the types to long everywhere.

Marc Gravell

7:20 AM

@TimStone well, perhaps one final option is for me to add a method to dapper that lets you get the reader; i.e. it still handles all the parameterisation, but you get to do what you like with the results. Would that be useful at all?

I don't really want to add Convert.ChangeType everywhere in the core ;p

you could obviously then write your own extension method that lets you do

int i = connection.QueryInt32(command, args);

or something like that

Tim Stone

Hmm...I'm trying to think of other situations where it might be useful. I don't see much point in mucking up the API just for this use case, since I can address it (even if in an somewhat ugly way) in calling code.

Though of course adding an option to perform the conversion would have done just that, so perhaps I should think ahead a bit next time, but. :P

I place all the fault on MySQL here anyway. I can understand COUNT(*) returning long to a degree, since I don't believe it has a separate function for bigint like SQL Server does, but the lack of cast to int and the fact that SELECT 1 returns a long make me rage a little.

Tim Yi Jiang

7:55 AM

Hmmm, how would I go about testing if a piece of metal is lead?

Tim Stone

Uhmm

@MarcGravell Ahhhh, this will actually work I think, in a way that I can conveniently wrap up in an extension method. Thanks! :D

@TimYiJiang Heh

Moshe

Hullo all.

Lucifer

Ola

Marc Gravell

@TimStone I just want to check; you're talking about the dynamic one there, right? so: I don't need to change anything?

Tim Stone

Yep, I'm good now. Appreciate all the help.

There's still a few cases where I'll have to use my CAST_INT() function, but I had use separate SQL for those for more legitimate reasons, so that's perfectly fine by me.

Flexo

8:08 AM

calling trogdor

Lucifer

wow- tag ???

Flexo

@Lucifer seems mostly world of warcraft with 1 "windows on windows" question I think

makes sense though, it has got a lua interface

Moshe

So the Israeli internet company my cousins use, Bezeq, seems to block meta, but not chat.meta. Hey, @Lix, any ideas?

Lucifer

oh i see , its a short form

Tim Stone

shakes head

That Jon Skeet character, breaking layouts eveywhere.

3

Tim Stone

8:35 AM

Changeset: 51 (460ea61ecba5) Goodbye API 1.0, finished basic porting to API 2.0
User: Tim Stone

\o/

4

Moshe

9:21 AM

@TimStone Yay!

Lucifer

10:13 AM

I recently created a profile on Chemistry site, there it shows me 101 reputation but in my s.o. profile it shows me 1 Reputation , in accounts list , why ?

Tim Yi Jiang

@TimStone Ha! Well, it's because I have this pencil here which I suspect actually uses a lead rather than graphite core

I think the density idea would work

ManishEarth wants more waffles

10:31 AM

@Lucifer It's caching

Lucifer

okey

ManishEarth wants more waffles

Hey, @Moshe!

Moshe

Hi there, @ManishEarth.

What's up?

ManishEarth wants more waffles

Nothin'

Found a chat bug with starring

But it's minor

Moshe

What bug?

Lucifer

10:38 AM

@Moshe Ceiling Fan, Moving round & round :P

Moshe

Heh

ManishEarth wants more waffles

Star a message in the starred list. The corresponding message on the main screen will increment its starred count, but will not become yellow. Then, try starring the main screen message, the count decrements in both places, the sidebar star becomes black, and the main screen star becomes yellow

Basically, the styles aren't being applied properly

Tim Yi Jiang

Huh, when did the CW threshold for too many answers get lowered to 15?

ManishEarth wants more waffles

@TimYiJiang Where?

Tim Yi Jiang

programmers.stackexchange.com/posts/156724/revisions

> Post Made Community Wiki by question having more than 15 answers

Tim Stone

11:03 AM

5

Q: Chat star doesn't work as expected

If you click to star a post on the side (in the starred list), it changes color but not the star by the main chat area (it does add one to the number, but it doesn't change the color). Then when you click the star on the main chat area, it changes color to yellow but lowers the number by one

@TimYiJiang Hmm, interesting...

balpha

11:14 AM

@TimYiJiang only on programmers

3

A: Have the Community Wiki conversion thresholds changed?

The threshold is 15 on SU and Programmers.

interestingly, it's not true about SU anymore

ManishEarth wants more waffles

11:28 AM

@TimStone YOU STOLE MY META REPS!!!

I'm close to new privs on Physics and Chem. Well, not really on Chem. Stupid diamond takes all the fun out of getting rep :S

jadarnel27

12:39 PM

First!

jadarnel27

1:13 PM

...brown?

AakashM

1:47 PM

Sometimes I don't know whether to laugh or cry:

-3

Q: help with asking question

Possible Duplicate: What can I do when getting “It does not meet our quality standards”? is send this asking but you say to me that is not in the quality standart. wahts is mean? hello, i develop with lwuit to nokia and blackberry. i have a problem with touch scrolling in the device...

support

jadarnel27

@AakashM I usually just default to crying, then laugh to cover it up.

I mean...uh, what?

AakashM

2:01 PM

There is something nicely meta about someone saying they don't understand "this does not meet our quality standards" in a way that doesn't meet our quality standards...

Flexo

2:37 PM

@AakashM it's a shame that question didn't get rejected by filters too so we'd have had "my question 'my question has been rejected by quality filters' has been rejected"

jadarnel27

3:19 PM

Ok, ok. I hit "F5" five times.

Popular Demand

Heh, I was thinking about mentioning that too. If it were an e-mail I would suspect phishing.

Tim Stone

3:33 PM

@ManishEarthwantsmorewaffles Hey! Wasn't me this time.

ManishEarth wants more waffles

3:44 PM

@tim I realized that later.... The gravatars are pretty similar.

:P

Tim Yi Jiang

@ManishEarthwantsmorewaffles I don't know, mine is rather different

ManishEarth wants more waffles

Ooops, tripleping

Tim Yi Jiang

Hehehe :D

ManishEarth wants more waffles

You're the only Tim left. Aside from Tim. And Tim.

Tim Yi Jiang

Poor Tim. He will be remembered.

jadarnel27

3:49 PM

I couldn't handle the pressure of being a Tim.

ManishEarth wants more waffles

I could handle it, just that I wanted to recognize waffles

jadarnel27

Who is this "waffles"?

ManishEarth wants more waffles

glares

No wonder you were demoted from a Tim. Clearly not suitable for Tim-ness :P

jadarnel27

Hahaha

I resigned, thank-you-very-much =D

Tim Stone

4:14 PM

@jadarnel27 It's a tough job, let me tell you.

jadarnel27

@TimStone I've noticed ^_^

Speaking of that, I just remembered I had planned on creating some work for you to do.

Tim Stone

Uh oh. :P

jadarnel27

4:35 PM

Despair, for your doom is surely as hand!!!

jadarnel27

5:45 PM

*at hand

I'm awful at typing. And proofreading.

Tim Stone

I think we're going to put it on the record as "as hand", just for kicks.

jadarnel27

I do like the ambiguity.

"Oh golly, I'm terrified because I'm not sure in what way my doom is similar to a hand! AHHHH!"

Flexo

Please i try to ask a question but i have this :Oops! Your question couldn't be submitted because: * It does not meet our quality standards. i ask if there is someone can help me ? why i can't submitt the question please ? — Chercheur Chercheur 5 mins ago

Anonymous

Can three somebodies please VtC this thing:

Anonymous

183

Q: UI Terminology: Logon vs Login

I am crafting an application and cannot decide whether to use the terms Login/out or Logon/off. Is there a more correct option between these two? Should I use something else entirely (like "Sign on/off"). In terms of usability, as long as I am consistent it probably doesn't matter which terms I ...

user-interface terminology

Anonymous

5:59 PM

This should not be a controversial close. It's fallen off of Hacker News' front page now, so the drama and votes should die down.

Popular Demand

@jeremybanks Whoa. An identicon? What gives?

Flexo

@jeremybanks mine's already #2

Anonymous

@PopularDemand Several cool users use them. I'm experimenting to see what the direction of causality is: if I use an identicon for a few weeks, will I become more cool?

Popular Demand

Aww.

Tim Stone

It's part of my 10 step recipe for success, so yes. Guaranteed*!

*The 10 step recipe is for entertainment purposes only and is not guaranteed to be suitable for any particular purpose or application.

jadarnel27

6:15 PM

This guy's "about me" section is great.

> closed as off topic by Jeremy Banks, Flexo, Lord Torgamus, Tim Stone, jadarnel27 8 mins ago

Flexo

that's the five currently active users in here

jadarnel27

That's a very Tavern-heavy closing crew =)

@Flexo Ha, indeed. Apparently @jeremybanks plan to become cool is working, because we are doing what he says.

Anonymous

:P

Flexo

No idea what this is about but I love:

> how can i inject fail in an overlay

26 mins ago, by Flexo

Please i try to ask a question but i have this :Oops! Your question couldn't be submitted because: * It does not meet our quality standards. i ask if there is someone can help me ? why i can't submitt the question please ? — Chercheur Chercheur 5 mins ago

it's him :(

jadarnel27

Ah, so you are partially responsible for that question making onto the site.

For. Shame.

Flexo

6:24 PM

@jadarnel27 Yeah. I might just give up being nice and switch to permanent sarcasm mode

(not really, but that was moderately annoying)

jadarnel27

Dear Chercheur, Please vacate this website at my earliest convenience. This question will self-destruct shortly. Thank you.

@Flexo A comment on that question like "For a great example of injecting fail into something, see above" would be way too snarky, but it's tempting =)

Flexo

@PopularDemand can you do the tags too? I still have no idea what the question is about!

Popular Demand

I can't, because I have no idea what the question is about.

jadarnel27

I guess it's about this? Overlay Network.

Flexo

@jadarnel27 that looks remarkably OT then :)

jadarnel27

6:36 PM

Haha, right.

Anonymous

6:52 PM

<rant>Mozilla decided not to support SVG fonts because it would discourage adoption of WOFF fonts. I don't disapprove of political moves like that in general, but this one is very dumb. SVG fonts are an incredibly simple text format: anybody could figure out how to manipulate them. Only supporting WOFF forces everybody to deal with brand new complexity wrapping the already-confusing binary font formats. Also, the many existing SVG documents with embedded fonts condemned to be unsupported.</rant>

Anonymous

/me has spent the last few hours trying to make sense of font specifications, hoping to be able to convert simple SVG fonts into WOFF. It is not going well.

jadarnel27

7:11 PM

FIREFOX: I AM DISAPPOINTMENT IN YOU'RE FONT STANDARDS.

Flexo

7:29 PM

i would like to use a program that disconnect nodes from a ring , i use pastry overlay , for example I randomly selected two nodes to disconnect from the network — Chercheur Chercheur 33 mins ago

I like pastry overlays, particularly jam

jadarnel27

7:41 PM

@Flexo Mmm, and butter.

Ok, I'm hungry now.

Anonymous

Pastry (DHT)

:This article describes the Pastry Distributed Hash Table. For the food, see Pastry. Pastry is an overlay and routing network for the implementation of a distributed hash table(DHT) similar to Chord. The key-value pairs are stored in a redundant peer-to-peer network of connected Internet hosts. The protocol is bootstrapped by supplying it with the IP address of a peer already in the network and from then on via the routing table which is dynamically built and repaired. Because of its redundant and decentralized nature there is no single point of failure and any single node can leave the ne...

Anonymous

Still NaRQ.

animuson

8:09 PM

@RebeccaChernoff: Did you decline my flag!? :o

Rebecca Chernoff

no

Shog9

@animuson It was declined by a real moderator

animuson

Lame -.-

Tim Stone

They were afraid to destroy my epic answer, clearly.

Shog9

The Tim Mafia has a long reach

animuson

8:15 PM

Shog should close it :o

Tim Stone

We even have an inside man, but I won't tell you who...

Shog9

@animuson You think I want my garbage disposal to attack me? Pfft. I don't even have a garbage disposal. I'd be spending my days in fear, afraid that at any moment a garbage disposal would leap out from behind a show curtain and attack.

Rebecca Chernoff

oy

animuson

Haha it's supposed to be shower curtain but obviously I can't edit it anymore, nor do I even feel like searching for it.

jadarnel27

I'll shower your curtain, buddy.

Tim Stone

8:25 PM

I uhh...Huh. walks away

animuson

@jadarnel27: Have you VTC'd yet? stackoverflow.com/q/3915663

jadarnel27

@animuson Nope. And I...do not plan to.

Tim Stone

Good call o_o

animuson

I am determined to close this question! DOWN WITH THE MAFIA!

jadarnel27

I'm just curious, how do you guys feel about suggested edits that just remove "Thanks in advance" type stuff? Specifically when it's legitimately the only thing that needs fixing.

animuson

8:30 PM

If it's legitimately the only thing that needs fixing, I approve them.

If there's other blatant things that could be fixed, I reject them.

Daniel Fischer

What animuson said.

animuson

There was one where the signature was like "Thanks, <Name>" and they suggested an edit that removed the ", <Name>" part but not the "Thanks" o.o Like... wth?

Tim Stone

Oh snap, another election.

animuson

:o Tim voted to close :o He's betrayed @Rebecca!

Tim Stone

Shh, don't tell her that!

Daniel Fischer

8:35 PM

whistles innocently

animuson

She can see... There's a nice box with your name listed in it xP

Tim Stone

Shhhhhhh!

jadarnel27

@animuson Cool. That's pretty much how I act on those as well.

Thanks for your feedback as well, @DanielFischer

Tim Stone

Two new elections? :O!

Hmm, better finish up those updates and get them deployed tonight.

animuson

Like this one, for example... — animuson 18 secs ago

Hahaha, that was tooooo easy xD

Daniel Fischer

8:48 PM

@jadarnel27 You're a good prophet:

4

Q: Editing posts that contain salutations

There are numerous posts on meta about editing questions with Thank you. Thanks in advance Thank you, Sean Please help me!! im such a noob sorry for takin ur time and many of them seem to conflict each other. In my opinion, these edits are not too minor, even if that is the only thing wrong...